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85 2001 LVL Stringer Project

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Big Pappa View Drop Down
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    Posted: January-28-2008 at 5:34pm
Hey everyone. I have been lurking around here for a while and posted a couple of times, but this is my first project post. I have an 85 2001 that is in great shape it just had a soft spot in front of the pylon and behind the drivers seat as so many of these boats do.

Well this is the year to fix that. I pulled up the carpet yesterday and low and behold most of the drivers side floor has delaminated from the side of the boat and a little over half of the passenger is the same way. The area in front of the pylon is shot and will have to be replaced.

I drilled a 1" hole every 2' down both sides and once I got behind the front of the motor the foam looks dry and clean. I am probably going to go ahead and rip it all up so I can see the condition of the stringers and supports and make sure there is not any water under the foam.

This is creating more work but it is better to fix it right the first time than having to do it all over again in a couple of years.

This is view of my boat.


This is the Drivers side the floor has pulled away between the red lines.


Here you can see how far it pulled away


Here are the holes on the driver side. The red circles are where the foam was wet and nasty looking. Green is where it was clean and dry.


Here is the Passenger side crack.


And the Passenger side Holes


So what do you all think? I am pretty sure I want to pull up the floor to check the stringers and make sure it is all dry under there before I glass it all back together.

Who has used something besides carpet after completing their repairs, To keep from having carpet that will hold moisture? I am still thinking 40oz carpet is going to be what I use but I am thinking maybe there is another option. Gator grip would be cool but expensive. Anyone done snap out carpet? How did it work out?

Anyway, thanks guys and gals!!!

Kris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2008 at 5:42pm
Welcome to the site. Sounds like you should pull the wood out of the floor and see whats underneath. It runs from the front of the motorbox to the back of the battery box. Here is a pic of my '90 with the wood portion removed:



Once you get that up, you'll be able to judge the condition of the foam and stringers. If theyre wet and rotten, keep digging backwards until you find solid, dry stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Pappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2008 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:



Once you get that up, you'll be able to judge the condition of the foam and stringers. If theyre wet and rotten, keep digging backwards until you find solid, dry stuff.


Thanks, glad to be here. Yea, I will definitely have to pull up that portion it is completely shot. I can see the edge by the pylon and it look like just the fiberglass then the soaked wood is hanging below.

Has anyone redid the area where the vents come down? Like making rigid vents that run down each side and give more room in the middle, or is that an area that can not be modified?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2008 at 8:05pm
For more information than you could ever hope to digest in one sitting, check out Skibum's stringer/floor thread here. He completely rebuilt his '87 and documented everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Pappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2008 at 12:54am
I sat up last weekend and read all 11 pages in one sitting last week. Boy was that a read. Like drinking from a fire hose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2008 at 7:35pm
Big Pappa,

If your floor is separating from the side of the hull then I strongly suspect the secondary stringers are separated from the hull as well. I have no doubt the secondaries are rotted foreward of the pylon. When I cut away the floor of the '87 it looked like much of the foam was dry. It was not.

I suggest you cut away the entire floor, remove the foam, and inspect (then replace) the secondary stringers and foam. A partial repair of that area under the front seats is okay. But you are going to have to remove the floor where it is separated from the hull then splice in a repair.

Pretty fun project. Just don't start doing the gelcote. That sucks.
Bill
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www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks 1987 SN Rebuild Project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2008 at 2:15am
Glad to see ya on Bill...not deployed yet huh?
I think I remember a post a little while back saying you might be changing "jobs". Hope you stay safe.

Are you searching for a new boat or gonna wait awhile?

You sure wrote the thread that explains it all about stringer replacement.

john
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Pappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2008 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by SkiBum SkiBum wrote:

Big Pappa,

If your floor is separating from the side of the hull then I strongly suspect the secondary stringers are separated from the hull as well. I have no doubt the secondaries are rotted foreward of the pylon. When I cut away the floor of the '87 it looked like much of the foam was dry. It was not.

I suggest you cut away the entire floor, remove the foam, and inspect (then replace) the secondary stringers and foam. A partial repair of that area under the front seats is okay. But you are going to have to remove the floor where it is separated from the hull then splice in a repair.

Pretty fun project. Just don't start doing the gelcote. That sucks.


Gelcote is is good shape so no worries there, thank goodness!!! Thanks for the info though. I am going through your post again making notes and figuring out a materials list and just doing my research. Looking back is there anything you would do different or have any tipos for me? That is anyone not just SkiBum.

I will be cutting out the floor this weekend and will have a better picture of what I have and what the scope of work will be. Hopefully the main stringers are all fine. The bolts are all tight. I can overpower a few of them so hopefully I can get away with some rotdr or something like that. I will just have to see what I have once I get the floor out. I need to do the tap with hammer test and see what happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2008 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Big Pappa Big Pappa wrote:


The bolts are all tight. I can overpower a few of them so hopefully I can get away with some rotdr or something like that. I will just have to see what I have once I get the floor out. I need to do the tap with hammer test and see what happens.


Kris, I feel the bolt tightening is just a preliminary check as the lag bolts don't go down to the bottom of the stringers. I find that a lot of the rot is on the bottoms. Just like you drilled the exploritory holes in the floor, I would drill some in the stringers close to the bottoms and see what comes out. I'm not really a big fan of Git-rot or the Rot-Doctor. It is a tempory fix. The surounding wood next to the repair done with these penetrating epoxies will start to rot quicker. The moisture is already in the wood. Tapping with a hammer is used as a preliminary as well. I've never had any luck with really "reading" the sound unless the wood is real mush! After you get the floor out, report back with what you find.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2008 at 3:14pm
One thing I wish I would have done: After I cut the floor and removed the foam all that remained was the rotting stringers partially attached to the hull. What I did not realize was that despite the fact the boat was on the trailer, it was not shaped correctly. I found out (quite by accident) that I had to raise the sides of the hull foreward of the engine compartment in order to bring the boat back into the proper shape. At the factory it would be in a mold. I ended up placing blocks of 2x4 and small wedges to raise the bottom of the hull until it matched the bottom of the stringers.

It is important to level the boat as much as possible. Try to get it level left to right and back to front.

I suppose the best thing would be to brace the boat before you cut out the floor and remove the foam.
Bill
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www.freewebs.com/billsboatworks 1987 SN Rebuild Project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Pappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2008 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by SkiBum SkiBum wrote:

One thing I wish I would have done: After I cut the floor and removed the foam all that remained was the rotting stringers partially attached to the hull. What I did not realize was that despite the fact the boat was on the trailer, it was not shaped correctly. I found out (quite by accident) that I had to raise the sides of the hull foreward of the engine compartment in order to bring the boat back into the proper shape. At the factory it would be in a mold. I ended up placing blocks of 2x4 and small wedges to raise the bottom of the hull until it matched the bottom of the stringers.

It is important to level the boat as much as possible. Try to get it level left to right and back to front.

I suppose the best thing would be to brace the boat before you cut out the floor and remove the foam.


So I should level up everything then brace everything so that the hull pulls back up to be in contact with the floor? Or is that just a matter of pulling the sides together?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2008 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by SkiBum SkiBum wrote:

I suppose the best thing would be to brace the boat before you cut out the floor and remove the foam.

Thanks Bill, I'm about to dive into this on another thread...and I really appreciate the documentation you did on your boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2008 at 8:14pm
Kris, Here's a thread from just a couple weeks ago. It's what I think Bill (skibum) is referring to.

hull pancakes


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2008 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by Big Pappa Big Pappa wrote:

So I should level up everything then brace everything so that the hull pulls back up to be in contact with the floor? Or is that just a matter of pulling the sides together?


I did (pretty much everything) the hard way. I didn't realize the boat was changing shape until I removed the floor and the foam. I left the stringers in place and replaced only one at a time. To remedy the problem of the boat changing shape I first lifted, then blocked under four points (stern at both ends and under the dash on each side).

To level the boat just use a long carpenter's level from side to side and front to back. Shim or adjust as needed. This will keep everything that comes after your work in proper level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timsdayoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2008 at 10:19pm
Hi guys, Sorry to slow you down a bit but my question is this: What is the best way to go about ripping the delaminated floor up. I have a 87 2001 and I have the carpet ripped up. I have two soft spots that I want to fix. I've cut into one spot and the foam is wet. Do I need to rip the entire floor and how do I do it? How do I separate it from the side of the hull? Sorry I'm not at the advanced level. Not afraid to do the work, just need some help on technique.

Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Pappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2008 at 12:32am
I am planning on cutting mine out with a sawsall. On the hull side use a long blade and let it conform to the side of the boat so it does not dig in. On the stringer side I have not decided if I am going to use the sawsall or use a Skill saw. Either one Just make the cut and try not to get into the stringer. Then just grind down the rest with a DA sander to grinder with a flap disk. Hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2008 at 10:24am
Big Pappa, stick with the sawzall, the skillsaw blows sh*t all over the place plus you get a jagged cut, just passing info, I try keeping the dust down as first priority. I put on winter coats from last year and i instantly start itching from doing glass work
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Pappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2008 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

Big Pappa, stick with the sawzall, the skillsaw blows sh*t all over the place plus you get a jagged cut, just passing info, I try keeping the dust down as first priority. I put on winter coats from last year and i instantly start itching from doing glass work


Awesome, thanks for the tip!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2008 at 2:02pm
My weapon of choice was a small air powered saw. Like a very small version of a sawzall. The blade was similar to that of a jig saw. The saw quickly cut through the floor while bending with the curves of the hull to avoid cutting through. Had to replace the blades every fifteen minutes but had the entire floor cut out in an hour - no messy glass flying about - no damage to the hull.

Then it is best to just pull all that foam out. It is in the way of replacing the stringers. It is probably wet too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Pappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2008 at 12:53am
Hey everybody,

Well the boat is all braced up and the floor is out. Like you all said there was water in there. The foam was not drenched but the bottom was wet a little. All the braces but the back 2 on the port side were completely soaked with water.

Here is the Boat on the stands


This is the Starboard side with the foam still in. The 3 braces on this side were completely drenched with water.


This is the port side with the foam still in. The first brace actually was just mush at the stringer. The back two were solid but you could see where they had been wet once or twice.


Here is the worst part. The foam up front is completely soaked. Under the pass seat there was about 2" water puddled up.


The foam came out real easy. I slid a pitch fork under the foam pried up and it came out in big chunks.


Here is the side of a piece of the foam. There is some water in there bit it does not seam to be much.


Here is the port side main stringer. I have got to do some more looking but i know for sure some is going to have to be replaced, I am not sure how much yet.


Here is the port side secondary stringer after I the foam was out.


And the back on the port side. If you look close you can see about a 1/2" of water running down the secondary stringer.


This is the starboard side after the foam is out.


And this is the back on the starboard.


Here is the front with the foam outside of the secondary stringers out. If you look close between the secondary stringer and the main stringer you can see water standing in the foam.


And the last one for today. This is the floor once it was out. What you see stuck to the floor up front is all that was left of the wood that was in front of the pylon. The rest was just mush.


Now a question for you all. I have heard that you can just replace only the rotten part of the stringer. It looks like part of my secondary stringers are still OK. Are there any down sides strength wise? Or is it better to just go ahead and replace it all? I think it is better to do things right the first time and that way you do not have to go back and do things over again. I would think it would be best to replace the whole thing with one solid piece of wood but I would like to hear what you all have to say about it.

What do you think?

Kris

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2008 at 7:44am
Kris, I strongly recommend doing the complete stringers and never just part. Scabbing old to new is a problem but you need to think about the water moisture. Sections of the stringers may seem good now but the wood is already wet and the rot spores are just waiting to go to work. Doing the complete job now really isn't that much more work considering having to open up the bilge a second time to finish the job. Don't forget that the stringers now can be done with epoxy resin and not polyester. Big difference with the water getting to the stringers.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkiBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2008 at 12:07am
I think you are going to find that those secondaries will just crumble when you pull them apart. Best to just replace the entire stringer.

Good to see that you have your boat braced. I suggest that before you get started with your repairs that you pull the engine/transmission, fuel cell, and running gear. You'll have more room to work in the boat and less chance of getting fiberglass mess on the engine and components.

Also, be careful about prying that foam out of the boat. If you are using leverage from the bottom of the boat to force the foam out, you could actually damage the hull if you apply too much pressure.

Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Pappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2008 at 2:52am
I was hoping to not have to pull the engine (I was hoping that the main stringers were OK). I was planning on pulling the Fuel cell and exhaust the whole time, now I just have to add the Engine/trans and running gear. :-(

I will be doing this this weekend. I will have to go and get another engine stand to put it on now. (I have a 73 bronco I am restoring and the fresh 351W is on the stand I currently have.) At least now I will have the engine out and can run over it with a fine tooth comb. I can also clean it up some and repaint some of the parts that need it.

Just to give you guys a little idea on the direction I am going with my project. I am replacing the floor to pretty much stock. One exception is I am going to add a cooler in front of the pylon like the option from the factory. I am going to carpet the sides of the boat like the factory did except using some 40 oz carpet. For the main floor I am going to change a little bit. I am going to gel coat the floor, then I am going to cut and install snap out carpet. The exact layout I am not sure of yet but every thing will be functional. The center in the back will come out just like stock.

One other thing I am going to do is I am going to add a removable seat from behind the drivers seat to the rear seat. Something like this.


Yea I know these two may be somewhat controversial, but they both serve a functional purpose.

1. The Gel coat and snap out carpet will help keep water from getting back to the stringers. Epoxy coated fiberglassed stringers sprayed with gel coat on the floor and outside of the hull should keep water out pretty well. Then the snap out carpet will allow me to pull the carpet out and let it dry completely. Plus replacement will be a breeze and I will see cracks in the floor as soon as they happen.

2. The seating is mainly for storage. That is all that happens in that part of my boat anyway. Cooler, boards, rope, towels, bags, food, etc... this way I will have some more hideable storage. I am going to design it so that it will be completely removable to return the floor plan back to stock.

Other small changes are a carpet covered panel to cover the fuel cell area. Glove compartment with a top, Radio, hose attachment for running the boat at the house easier, Transom mounted ski ring, a good wet sand and buff, clean and oil the swim deck, and maybe some sort of clear protection for the transom for good measure.

That is the plan as it is today. Any comments, yeaaas, neaaaas, or flames? :-)

Kris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2008 at 2:59pm
Corinthian Marine

These guys will make your snap in carpet for you, they send you samples and instructions to basically make a paper template to roll up and send back. They do all the edgeing and can do custom embrodiary work, pretty sure they can install the snaps as well. Its high end stuff however, not for the faint of wallet.

I might go the snap in route if I felt I could get a good nonskid gelcoat down inside the boat I would be happy with but I dont have those skills.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timsdayoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2008 at 12:38am
Big Poppa,

I'm in the middle of replacing the foam and glass on my 87. How are you going about placing a floor cooler in front of the pylon? I think I know where it will fit but what are you using for the thermal compartment and where do you get that? How does it mount? Are you worried it may block some of the cooling airflow to the engine? I love the idea. Help me out with some info.

Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Pappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2008 at 2:34am
I have not decided the exact implementation just yet. From the factory it was just another compartment like the battery compartment. I will probably look around and see if I can find something that I can modify and make work. If I can not find something that will look factory I will get some foam and mold it like the battery box. Then make my own out of fiberglass.

One thing I have been contemplating is extending the battery compartment like in   This Thread then using a hinged lid so I could get to the tasty beverages without lifting the seat but still having the larger cooler. Then move the battery up in the bow.

As far as the airflow. That is not for cooling, the lake water is an endless supply of cooling. The vent is to keep gas vapors down to a min so you do not go boom!!! I am just going extend the vents down and there should not be a problem.

Hope this helps.

Kris
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Thanks for the info.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jon4pres Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2008 at 3:22pm
I am pretty late to the party here but I had a pretty similar project last summer when I went to fix a small soft spot and ended up tearing everything out.

I say if you are doing it do it all at once. It is not going to be that much more difficult or expensive to do it all.

I did something very similar to what Luke did in that post. I did not do a cooler but made a large compartment that has both batteries and room for some storage.

I like you idea of gel-coating the floors and stringers. I wanted to do the same thing but did not have the ability to spray gel so I went with a 2 part epoxy (garage floor) paint over my epoxied stringers and marine plywood floor panels. Only time will tell but I am very confident that my boat will last a long time.

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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2008 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by jon4pres jon4pres wrote:


I did something very similar to what Luke did in that post. I did not do a cooler but made a large compartment that has both batteries and room for some storage.


Jon, I must have missed that thread on 2001. I admire you guys enlarging the under floors but hope you didn't use a carbon steel box like Luke did. From the stand point of corrosion with the potential (I know he's got the optima's) for battery acid/fumes plus down in the bilge, it would be my very last choice for a material.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jon4pres Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2008 at 5:36pm
I didn't ever take any pictures so there was no thread. I used wood painted with epoxy for mine. Mine is not solid. I hated the stock battery box because it was not deep enough and would trap water in it. The new one is much more open.

In my rebuild I gave up on the idea of keeping everything watertight. Instead I tried to make a way for all the water that gets into the boat to make it into the bilge.
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