Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - heater connection point
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

heater connection point

 Post Reply Post Reply   
Author
nobrainsd View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: August-13-2015
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 157
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nobrainsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: heater connection point
    Posted: December-28-2017 at 8:33pm
I have a 94 SN that is now converted to a DUI distributor and Holley carb. It has a closed cooling system. The heater has never worked very well. I recognize that the core may be clogged, but that doesn't seem to be the issue. It appears to me that the way the heater is connected to the cooling system is just too restricted. I have included a photo of that point. The 5/8" heater hose is reduced and attaches to the Y below the water pump. The attachment point was a drain hole with a plug. The heater connection replaced the plug.

I would like to get more flow through the core. But I'm not sure what the best way to go about this is. I have considered drilling the drain hole to a larger size diameter and tapping it. I do have some concern about removing that much of the drain hole wall area. The hole has a base built up around it. You can see it in the photo. I would hate to damage this part, as I don't believe it is replaceable anymore.

I looked around for other places to attach this connection. There is a water temp cut off switch on the top of the water pump that is no longer used since I removed the protec system. It does look like it's position might not be ideal for water flow. Any comments on the likelihood of that spot working? The opening is larger than the drain hole on the Y.

Beneath the Y and above are two 1-3/4" ID hoses. I considered attaching a T inline on one of these hoses, but finding a 1-3/4" tee appears to be impossible. Scaling up to a 2" tee using reducers is possible, but seems like a lot of parts and overly complicated. Is PVC a reasonable material for a T in a cooling line? I would tend to consider bronze fittings. All in all the lack of 1-3/4" fittings just makes trying to install a T into the hoses seem like a bad idea. Heater Craft does sell a WYE for this sort of installation. It is composite, but only comes in 1-1/4" ID. It is intended for use before the RWP which has a smaller hose ID. I don't think restricting my closed coolant flow sounds like a good idea. Going up to 2" ID seems like a better idea if I was going to attach to the hoses.

Maybe I'm missing something? I would like to get better flow, which will obviously make the heater work better. If I still have issues I will pull the core. The boat was a fresh water only boat when I bought it and the core did have good water flow when I flushed it through a pulled heater hose. So I'm really thinking the connection to the Y is the restriction. Please feel free to enlighten me if you have any suggestions. Thank you.
Here is the restricted attachment point on the Y.

Here is the unused engine temp cut off switch on top of the water pump.

Here is the lower 1-3/4" hose from the bottom of the Y to the closed cooling heat exchanger.
Back to Top
Gary S View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-30-2006
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 14096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-28-2017 at 9:58pm
What is that last picture of?   That is an odd elbow in the first picture,that is the only part still available but the small tapped outlet is out the bottom. You do know that that part of the system is the return out of the heater right? Where does the hose that feeds the heater attach to the engine?
69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport
Back to Top
nobrainsd View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: August-13-2015
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 157
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nobrainsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-28-2017 at 10:23pm
In the first picture the elbow is for the closed cooling system. There is a 1-3/4 ID hose off the back that isn't apparent. I'm still considering drilling and tapping the drain hole currently used for the return connection. SkiDim doesn't sell the kits or parts anymore. Do you know where a closed cooling system Y is available? If I drill it I would like a back up.

A restriction on the return is as bad as one on the intake. The hoses farther back out of the closed cooling heat exchanger are 1-3/4 also. i don't see anything convenient to hook up to. The intake is attached on the top of the engine next to the distributor where the temp gauge was. It is now a T. The last photo could be better. The bottom of the Y is blocked from view by the water pump. But that larger hose goes from the Y to the heat exchanger.

I don't really know what the cavity of the water pump looks like. I can't tell if using the temp shut off switch position is a viable alternative. I would guess the sensor needs pretty good water flow to insure that it reflects the actual coolant temperature, but I really don't know. Maybe I'll splurge on a gasket and pull it to look.
Back to Top
nobrainsd View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: August-13-2015
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 157
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nobrainsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-28-2017 at 10:59pm
Anybody have a picture of the back of a 94 era Form PCM block water recirculation pump?
Back to Top
Gary S View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-30-2006
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 14096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-28-2017 at 11:18pm
Did not realize that first pic was a Y sorry. A whole bunch of parts that PCM made to convert Fords is now discontinued. Don't know if it's the case of the Y but supposedly the molds to cast them were lost at the company who made them for PCM. I do know that a heater for the raw water systems were connected very similar,hot water out of the block at the intake manifold,return to the U that is used on raw water systems in the place of your Y. Mine worked terrible at idle,only at speed would you get good heat. Heatercrafts fix was this Y .It fits into the water intake hose before the raw water pump. The leg that the heater return line connects has a restriction hole no bigger than 5/32 in it. That and the fact that it's before the pump creates a suction that flows enough water to make it work at idle as good as at speed. I wonder if you should contact Heatercraft and see if they have a fix. I think your idea of connecting it to the port on the circulation pump might work,after all thats how Ford connected the heater in cars and trucks I believe. Would not take much to try it out.
69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport
Back to Top
nobrainsd View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: August-13-2015
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 157
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nobrainsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-29-2017 at 12:38pm
Yeah, I am aware of the low idle speed wye. I mentioned it in my first post. I do find it odd that the 5/8" heater return line connect has a restriction in it. While that may help make some suction at low idle speed I can't imagine that helps the heater efficiency the rest of the time. Having worked on my van heater and finding how much better it worked when I replaced a kinked (collapsed) hose I'm still of the opinion that more water flow is better than less. Placing the wye just before the RWP seems like it would sure help over the attachment to the original U. But I don't have that option with my closed cooling set up. I am intrigued to hear that Ford was connecting heater returns to the port on the circulation pump. I'm going to look at whether or not I can route the return hose there. As you say it shouldn't be hard to test it. Sure wish I could find a 1-3/4" x 5/8" x 1-3/4" barbed T! I would just put it inline on the hose, but that seems to be unobtanium :)
Back to Top
Gary S View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-30-2006
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 14096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-29-2017 at 1:56pm
I don't. I'm no engineer but I do know that if your trying to dissipate heat whether it's in oil,water or air,if it passes through the exchanger too fast,the heat won't transfer as best it can so thats why it's there. Have you contacted Heatercraft,you can't be the only one who's had this come up
69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-29-2017 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

I don't. I'm no engineer but I do know that if your trying to dissipate heat whether it's in oil,water or air,if it passes through the exchanger too fast,the heat won't transfer as best it can so thats why it's there.

Heat transfer depends on the turbulence in the media (water in this case). Some high end high efficiency heat exchangers or a high end boilers actually have internal spiral fins to get the media to the transfer surface.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June-14-2014
Location: Cape Town
Status: Offline
Points: 325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilhelm Hertzog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-03-2020 at 6:14pm
Don't know if it is better to start a fresh thread or resurrect an old one, but this thread was quite helpful in getting me halfway to the answers I was looking for, so here goes.

I've been having issues with my cooling system after converting to fresh water (i.e. semi-closed) cooling (I have another thread here on the topic).

As part of my troubleshooting, I've temporarily removed the heater (which was installed incorrectly to begin with). I do intend to reinstall it once I have my cooling issue sorted. So here are my questions:

1. I know the hot water source for a heater is often a T that is installed in the same location as the temp sender (in my case on the starboard side at the front of the intake manifold). However, on the port side of the front of my intake (Edelbrock Performer 351W), next to the distributor, there is a plug that looks very much to me like it can also be a source of hot water (circled in red in the picture below). Is this indeed the case, and if so, can I use that as the hot water source for my heater?



2. Where is the best place to connect the heater return hose to? From the posts above, I understand that it can connect to the plug on the Y-fitting (circled in red in the picture below). Are there any other good places to connect to?

3. I've searched all over the internet, but can't find a good diagram explaining exactly what the holes/connections circled in green and blue are for. Seems that the ones in blue are potentially for heater hoses, but I read conflicting opinions on whether they are inputs to the water pump (i.e. water is sucked into the pump through them) or outputs (i.e. water is pumped out of the pump to e.g. a heater). Can anyone enlighten me?



Thanks for the help!
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Back to Top
Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June-14-2014
Location: Cape Town
Status: Offline
Points: 325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilhelm Hertzog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2020 at 9:01am
Originally posted by Wilhelm Hertzog Wilhelm Hertzog wrote:

Thanks for the help!


Pretty please?
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2020 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Wilhelm Hertzog Wilhelm Hertzog wrote:

Don't know if it is better to start a fresh thread or resurrect an old one, but this thread was quite helpful in getting me halfway to the answers I was looking for, so here goes.

I've been having issues with my cooling system after converting to fresh water (i.e. semi-closed) cooling (I have another thread here on the topic).

As part of my troubleshooting, I've temporarily removed the heater (which was installed incorrectly to begin with). I do intend to reinstall it once I have my cooling issue sorted. So here are my questions:

1. I know the hot water source for a heater is often a T that is installed in the same location as the temp sender (in my case on the starboard side at the front of the intake manifold). However, on the port side of the front of my intake (Edelbrock Performer 351W), next to the distributor, there is a plug that looks very much to me like it can also be a source of hot water (circled in red in the picture below). Is this indeed the case, and if so, can I use that as the hot water source for my heater?



2. Where is the best place to connect the heater return hose to? From the posts above, I understand that it can connect to the plug on the Y-fitting (circled in red in the picture below). Are there any other good places to connect to?

3. I've searched all over the internet, but can't find a good diagram explaining exactly what the holes/connections circled in green and blue are for. Seems that the ones in blue are potentially for heater hoses, but I read conflicting opinions on whether they are inputs to the water pump (i.e. water is sucked into the pump through them) or outputs (i.e. water is pumped out of the pump to e.g. a heater). Can anyone enlighten me?



Thanks for the help!


The plug on the intake manifold circled in red in the first picture would work for a hot water supply. That's hot coolant right before it gets to the thermostat.

The 2 connections circled in blue both go to the pump suction........ Use one and plug the other unless you have a thermostat bypass line in your cooling system then the top one is for the bypass hose and the bottom is the heater return line.

It seems that only you know how the system is plumbed.

Since you have a fresh water cooled engine it'll work just fine with an automotive circulating pump like you have

Maybe it's the picture, but that thing circled in green sure looks like a bolt head.

Back to Top
Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June-14-2014
Location: Cape Town
Status: Offline
Points: 325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilhelm Hertzog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2020 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:


The 2 connections circled in blue both go to the pump suction........ Use one and plug the other unless you have a thermostat bypass line in your cooling system then the top one is for the bypass hose and the bottom is the heater return line.


The two connections are both currently blocked off. So it is as simple as unscrewing the plug circled in blue below and screwing in the right fitting to attach the heater hose? Seal with Permatex? Or is there more to it?



The OP clearly had his heater return line plumbed to the Y-fitting - refer to the picture in the very first post in this thread. Any reason to prefer the blue circled connections over the connection to the Y-fitting?

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

It seems that only you know how the system is plumbed.


Barely. Boat has spent most of its life in South Africa, with seemingly a lot of short cut/make-do fixes applied over the years!

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Maybe it's the picture, but that thing circled in green sure looks like a bolt head.


Sure does, but on the picture above you can see it more closely. Very odd fit made me wonder whether it is something other than just a bolt.
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2020 at 9:40pm
The 2 connections circled in blue and the plug on the y fitting all are on the suction side so any of them would work.

Like you said , unscrew the fitting, put the new one in and Permatex would be fine.

I think the thing circled in green is a bolt that's either too long or it's backed out some, it looks like corrosion from leakage from the hole.
Back to Top
Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June-14-2014
Location: Cape Town
Status: Offline
Points: 325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilhelm Hertzog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-07-2020 at 2:21am
Great, thanks.

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

I think the thing circled in green is a bolt that's either too long or it's backed out some, it looks like corrosion from leakage from the hole.


Thankfully no, it's sealant, not corrosion (though there is a bit of corrosion on the pump housing itself below the bolt).
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Back to Top
TorrinFu View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: May-08-2020
Location: Virginia, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TorrinFu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-11-2020 at 3:07pm
Hi...as per my understanding the metal plays an important role. As per the connectivity rule Heater connections must be done with nickel terminals, crimped with the appropriate tool to build a strong connection. For a conductor, I will suggest TGGT. Both the conductor and the terminal at the heater connection must be rated for the heater's temperature for assured long life and good service.
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-11-2020 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by TorrinFu TorrinFu wrote:

Hi...as per my understanding the metal plays an important role. As per the connectivity rule Heater connections must be done with nickel terminals, crimped with the appropriate tool to build a strong connection. For a conductor, I will suggest TGGT. Both the conductor and the terminal at the heater connection must be rated for the heater's temperature for assured long life and good service.

Torrin,
FYI, this is a hydronic heater NOT electric.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June-14-2014
Location: Cape Town
Status: Offline
Points: 325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilhelm Hertzog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2020 at 4:13pm
Follow up on this topic. The picture below was posted with one of my earlier posts in this topic, but I'm re-posting as it seemingly went missing with the site's going down recently.

Does anyone know what thread size and type the plug is supposed to be that goes in where the red circled bolt currently sits on my boat? It looks to me like the original plug was removed from the Y-fitting and a bolt screwed in there which isn't quite the right fit (kept from leaking with generous application of thread sealant). I'd like to get the right plug in there, but can't find anything in the PCM Engine Owner's Manual or the Illustrated Parts Manual that specifies what plug goes in there.


1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Back to Top
Gary S View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-30-2006
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 14096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2020 at 4:44pm
It is 1/4 NPT  the same size that are in the block as well.
69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport
Back to Top
Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June-14-2014
Location: Cape Town
Status: Offline
Points: 325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilhelm Hertzog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-02-2021 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by Wilhelm Hertzog Wilhelm Hertzog wrote:


3. I've searched all over the internet, but can't find a good diagram explaining exactly what the holes/connections circled in green and blue are for. Seems that the ones in blue are potentially for heater hoses, but I read conflicting opinions on whether they are inputs to the water pump (i.e. water is sucked into the pump through them) or outputs (i.e. water is pumped out of the pump to e.g. a heater). Can anyone enlighten me?




Well, having pulled off my water pump and timing cover, the mystery of the green circled bolt was solved: it is screwed into one of the mounting holes that are not used on older style pumps. Refer to my thread here: https://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49691 , and comments about these mounting holes that are not used in this thread: https://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49729 .
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2024 | Bagley Productions, LLC