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Operating Temp and Auxillary Instrumentation 302

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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2019 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:


And.............I also think that TRB's coolant temp sensor wire is bent at a weird angle and needs to be reoriented so it looks prettier and isn't stressed as much

Ken,
Speaking of stressed, check out the port side coolant line from the manifold to the riser.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2019 at 9:03pm
Ha. Probably fixing a leak at the sensor-manifold joint.

**No wires were injured in the filming of this episode**

Still have mixed feelings on the black.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2019 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Ken,
Speaking of stressed, check out the port side coolant line from the manifold to the riser.

Belt and suspenders as the riser joint is jacketed... please send a link to a 1.5” radius 5/8” diam 100 degree molded hose with a 1.5” offset and I’ll clean it up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2019 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Ha. Probably fixing a leak at the sensor-manifold joint.

**No wires were injured in the filming of this episode**

Still have mixed feelings on the black.


Don't you dare change the colors

Pete, I was keeping that one in my back pocket but It is kinda a perfect spot for a short formed hose at the front of those risers

Design issue, not Tim's doing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2019 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:



Pete, I was keeping that one in my back pocket but It is kinda a perfect spot for a short formed hose at the front of those risers

Design issue, not Tim's doing

A couple of these would help too:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2019 at 9:19pm
Armchair engineering... Those would hurt more than help... it’s the offset that causes the issue. Straight barbs nearly touch as it is, those angles would require a 260deg loop to connect!

Barbs came preinstalled, blame Dana.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2019 at 9:21pm
Poor Wisco, he's gotta read thru all this sidetracking, hope he enjoys it

I hope he's taking some pictures to send.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2019 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Those would hurt more than help... it’s the offset that causes the issue. Straight barbs nearly touch as it is, those angles would require a 260deg loop to connect!

Barbs came preinstalled, blame Dana.


Just run 3 ft of hose from the left manifold to the right riser and another 3 ft the other way
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2019 at 10:27pm
Pulled boat out of barn and removed duck boat from garage after work so I could get pics of oil cooler. Fiancée pissed that I am already “playing boat” in January. Will try and upload later tonight after I get home from dinner(bar) and read through all of this.   This forum stuff is fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 7:50am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Armchair engineering... Those would hurt more than help... it’s the offset that causes the issue. Straight barbs nearly touch as it is, those angles would require a 260deg loop to connect!


Tim, You need a different armchair





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 9:15am
You’re right, that does look much worse.

I like ken’s 3’ hose idea better!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 10:07am
Only 3 weeks in must really be getting cold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 10:15am
Gosh, what is wrong with the hose in that photo? What's a better solution?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

Gosh, what is wrong with the hose in that photo?

Someone else's idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 10:59am




Oil Cooler
Serial Number
Trans Cooler

Its difficult to photograph the oil cooler with all 4 connections visible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 11:00am
You can partially see the oil cooler tucked under the filter and engine mount






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 11:04am
I'd rather be Pete's hose than Tim's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 11:13am
I dunno what you guys are talking about up there I can’t read it all … but for the record…

Oil coolers cool the oil, they don’t cool the motor more or less per say just change where the heat is. In the case of the PCM momentary add on system with one pump you only have one stream of water to work with therefore you are adding the heat you remove from the oil to the water that you are then using to cool the block and heads.
In certain low speed/cool water scenarios because the thermostat would be closed and you would be operating on a fixed bypass you would actually be running the water warmer. Theoretically the engine as a system maybe cooled slightly more at this point because of the additional heat exchange area but you would perceive it as running warmer if you are checking only the water temp gauge.

When the thermostat is able to control the system by opening partially because you need less than full cooling capacity you would see the same water temps with or without the cooler, however again the overall engine is cooled more as the oil is cooler that it would be if you didn't have an oil cooler.

When/if you run out of cooling capacity and see water temps above the thermostat controlling temp (which will happen sooner with an oil cooler than without both because you have lowered the flow rate by adding the waterside restriction of the oil cooler and because you are bringing warmer water to the engine cooling passages) – you would have the higher water temp at similar speeds/loads but cooler oil.

You would likely never have cooler water temp than an oil cooler less system. The old Chrysler two pump setups where the oil cooler is not using the same water that cools the block and heads is a bit different scenario.

But Joe doesn’t the cooler oil running through the engine cool it down somewhat… yeah yeah not significantly though-

So oil cooler is only there if you need cooler oil – which sometimes is a good thing, and sometimes can be a bad thing and you still have the pressure drop on the oil side of the cooler to deal with – and the increased pressure that comes with the cooler oil –

All we know for sure is that it won’t ever likely lower the temp of the cooling water temp gauge on a single pump system, I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 11:24am
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:

I dunno what you guys are talking about up there I can’t read it all … but for the record…

Oil coolers cool the oil, they don’t cool the motor more or less per say just change where the heat is. In the case of the PCM momentary add on system with one pump you only have one stream of water to work with therefore you are adding the heat you remove from the oil to the water that you are then using to cool the block and heads.
In certain low speed/cool water scenarios because the thermostat would be closed and you would be operating on a fixed bypass you would actually be running the water warmer. Theoretically the engine as a system maybe cooled slightly more at this point because of the additional heat exchange area but you would perceive it as running warmer if you are checking only the water temp gauge.

When the thermostat is able to control the system by opening partially because you need less than full cooling capacity you would see the same water temps with or without the cooler, however again the overall engine is cooled more as the oil is cooler that it would be if you didn't have an oil cooler.

When/if you run out of cooling capacity and see water temps above the thermostat controlling temp (which will happen sooner with an oil cooler than without both because you have lowered the flow rate by adding the waterside restriction of the oil cooler and because you are bringing warmer water to the engine cooling passages) – you would have the higher water temp at similar speeds/loads but cooler oil.

You would likely never have cooler water temp than an oil cooler less system. The old Chrysler two pump setups where the oil cooler is not using the same water that cools the block and heads is a bit different scenario.

But Joe doesn’t the cooler oil running through the engine cool it down somewhat… yeah yeah not significantly though-

So oil cooler is only there if you need cooler oil – which sometimes is a good thing, and sometimes can be a bad thing and you still have the pressure drop on the oil side of the cooler to deal with – and the increased pressure that comes with the cooler oil –

All we know for sure is that it won’t ever likely lower the temp of the cooling water temp gauge on a single pump system, I think.


Well for the record, everything you said has already been said in the stuff that you didn't read   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 11:32am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:


Well for the record, everything you said has already been said in the stuff that you didn't read   


I assumed so, but now that it has been said by an Engineer who has occasionally taught thermodynamics and heat transfer at the (community) college level it can go on the record...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 11:37am
Wisco

Sometimes a picture or 2 or 3 lead to all kinds of shall we say discoveries.

I think from the picture of your engine tag , that the big hunk of metal under it should be a 351 not a 302.

That blue color on the tag and the engine is 76 vintage color.

Maybe somebody swapped engines and put the old tag on or swapped tags.

Why don't you measure across the intake mounting bolts from one side to the other.

A 351 is about 9 1/4 inches center to center and a 302 is about 7 1/2 inches

The P tells you that it was built by Pleasurecraft R is for reverse rotation and D is for a 255 HP 351 (that was the 1976 HP rating)



From an old post

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

If you want an easy way to distinguish a 302 from a 351 measure from an intake manifold mounting bolt on the left side to the right side. It's easy to check on the engine with a tape measure.

If it's a 351W, the centerline distance will be about 9 1/4 inches

If it's a 302, the centerline distance will be about 7 1/2 inches

The picture is a 351w

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 11:44am
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:



Oil coolers cool the oil, they don’t cool the motor more or less per say just change where the heat is. In the case of the PCM momentary add on system with one pump you only have one stream of water to work with therefore you are adding the heat you remove from the oil to the water that you are then using to cool the block and heads.
In certain low speed/cool water scenarios because the thermostat would be closed and you would be operating on a fixed bypass you would actually be running the water warmer. Theoretically the engine as a system maybe cooled slightly more at this point because of the additional heat exchange area but you would perceive it as running warmer if you are checking only the water temp gauge.


Before the thermostat opens isn't the heat that is removed from the oil and absorbed into the water passing through the cooler lost through the exhaust before it can transfer back into the heads/block? Seems like the heat exchange efficiency in the oil cooler would be significantly higher than water passing through the tstat housing and out the exhaust, but not sure.
This is definitely not the direction I anticipated this thread going, but i enjoy it. I might have a poorly seated t stat that is allowing blowby or some other phenomena going on. But at least now you guys know I have an oil cooler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 12:11pm
Why are you worried about the small amount of time that the thermostat is closed?

You're having cooling issues when it's open and you're driving the boat around.

The oil cooler has nothing to do with your over cooling issues is the easy to understand explanation
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 12:49pm
Ken my concern is because it is not a small amount of time in my case. It is the entire time I am using the boat until I go 40+ mph for several minutes. When the thermostat is open I don't have a problem. It holds at 160 degrees +/- a few until i back off the throttle, then it drops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Ken my concern is because it is not a small amount of time in my case. It is the entire time I am using the boat until I go 40+ mph for several minutes. When the thermostat is open I don't have a problem. It holds at 160 degrees +/- a few until i back off the throttle, then it drops.

Cole,

Regarding the running cool when you back off the throttle, what is your concern? What does the temp go down to? What do you consider cold/cool?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 2:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Ken my concern is because it is not a small amount of time in my case. It is the entire time I am using the boat until I go 40+ mph for several minutes. When the thermostat is open I don't have a problem. It holds at 160 degrees +/- a few until i back off the throttle, then it drops.


Then what's cooling the engine for that period of time that you think the thermostat is still closed?

Sounds like you could drive around at 3000 rpm for a half hour for example and your temp gauge stays low.

Your engine would have overheated long before that half hour went by

You have bypass flow around the thermostat or a stuck open thermostat.

If things are right, you can idle the boat at the dock/launch ramp and the thermostat will open at idle speed with or without an oil cooler.

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