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'80 Ignition when hot

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sayoung68 View Drop Down
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    Posted: June-03-2019 at 11:46pm
Hey friends.... can't find a similar issue on the posts.

1980 Nautique with 351 Commander. Started right up. Ran for 30 minutes beautifully. When I approached dock at idle the engine surged a little a couple of times then died. Turning the ignition and got nothing. Battery fine. Ignition fuse ok. Let the boat rest and it started right up.

Any ideas?   Thanks.
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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 8:04am
Stewart,
Check your base ignition timing and also make sure the mechanical advance is free to move.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 8:48am
Originally posted by sayoung68 sayoung68 wrote:

When I approached dock at idle the engine surged a little a couple of times then died. Turning the ignition and got nothing. Battery fine. Ignition fuse ok. Let the boat rest and it started right up.

Any ideas?   Thanks.


Does this mean you turned the key and got no noises, no clicks, no starter turning, nothing at all happened, just silence ?

Like there was no electrical power going anywhere?

If it was something different, a better description might help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sayoung68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 9:52am
Keno,

Correct. When I turned the key nothing happened as though it had no power except all the accessories were working fine and the gauges activated when the key was turned. I put a battery pack on to make sure it wasn't low battery power but it had no effect. After about an hour it started fine again.

I think I had put it in neutral once at that point to slow approach to the dock. Could it be a neutral safety switch not working properly?

Thanks everyone for your help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 10:00am
Originally posted by sayoung68 sayoung68 wrote:

Keno,
I think I had put it in neutral once at that point to slow approach to the dock. Could it be a neutral safety switch not working properly

That's a possibility. Check the NSS for continuity when wiggling the shift in neutral. Also, make sure your battery posts and cable terminals are clean and tight.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 11:29am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Stewart,
Check your base ignition timing and also make sure the mechanical advance is free to move.


Well look at that, you get a little information and it makes your answer quoted above look pretty ridiculous. doesn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 2:46pm
Assuming the issue is the Neutral Safety switch that situation has happened many times in direct drive boats like the Nautique.
It has become habit over the years when the engine does not turn over as intended to quickly wiggle the shifter and make sure the Neutral safety switch has centered allowing you to start. I bet many on here do it without thinking at all.
Maybe it is an easy fix but it happens infrequently and the solution was just a quick wiggle so I never attempted to fix it. When I had to repair my Tranny in the old Nautique I had the Neutral safety removed and it is a very simple set up with ball detents.
Is there a proper grease or lubricant that should be used on the NSS or is that AFT like the trans.

If it is a sticky starter a tap on the starter body with a ball pen hammer will many times get it to fire up but you would hear the starter try to engage, a fairly loud click.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sayoung68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 9:24pm
thanks all! It seems the ignition issue is related to the Neutral Safety Switch.   A little jiggle of the throttle seems to be working. Now I just need to figure out why it died at idle approaching the dock. It seems to be running rough at idle - 1000 RPM. I just changed fuel filter and will do plugs tomorrow.

RE: PLUGS - It seems very difficult to get the plugs out with the Commander exhaust manifold. SURELY you don't have to take the exhaust manifold off to change the plugs.

I can't wait until I can provide some of the great insight you all are providing.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 9:57pm
Look down the carburetor when it's trying to idle and see if there's gas spittin' and spillin' down the throats. You really shouldn't see anything. Look down the primary and secondary throats. If you're seeing excessive liquid gad you have an issue like junk between the inlet needle and seat that'll need to be cleaned out.

if it was running good before that, I wouldn't try to adjust the float level, just go for the cleaning. The floats wouldn't just magically get out of whack. There are other things to look at but start with that look down the carb

As far as the plugs, get them loose with a 5/8 box end wrench or the box end of an open end wrench and take them out by hand after that. On the way back in, put them in by hand and tighten with the box end wrench.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sayoung68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2019 at 1:04pm
Thanks Keno.   Plugs were much easier than I expected. Didn't solve the issue of stalling at idle when engaged into gear after the engine is warmed up though. Following a similar thread posted yesterday from an 85 SN. Identical issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2019 at 1:34pm
Check the other thread for some more info instead of me repeating it here

And about the time you're convinced it's a fuel system issue, it'll turn out to be an ignition system issue. Many times that has been the case

Is it a points distributor?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sayoung68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2019 at 4:07pm
So, my SN is still at the mechanic. He wants to rebuild the carb for lack of knowing what else to do. After many days he finally told me he couldn't find the carb kit from his distributors so I ordered one from Holley.

However, he just decided to check the fuel filter which I had changed right before taking the boat to him and he said it was full of rust. He wonders if the fuel tank has rust.

Any thoughts?
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sayoung68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2019 at 5:22pm
So after many months of my 80 Ski Nautique sitting at the shop this summer the second mechanic seemed to have solved the issue. As a reminder... the boat would run great for 30-40 minutes but then wouldn't idle or allow to be engaged in gear to run. Was stranded on the lake several times. The boat would restart, just would allow to engage. Carb was rebuilt, coil replaced, changed battery terminals. The second mechanic lake tested the boat and at 40 min it did the same to him. He checked fuel which seemed good. When he removed distributor cap he noticed the magnetic points seemed to be misaligned. He adjusted with his fingers and the boat re-engaged.

Early in this thread some suggested once I check everything fuel related it would be electrical.... seems he was right.

Looking forward to at least one more day on the lake in my old 80 SN before the end of the season. Even though I also have an 03 Nautique Sport 226 I love the 80.

Hope this helps someone else.
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