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Baffling hic-up first time out today

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gt40KS View Drop Down
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    Posted: April-28-2020 at 8:14pm
   Got out for the first time today and all was going great for a couple hours. Drove all over the lake to test the boat and survey the lake for debris, etc with no issues - all within perfect specs. Stopped the boat to relax for a bit and take a dip in the still too cold water and then decided we''d better be getting back to the dock since weather was supposed to be coming in in the next couple of hours.

   About half way back the engine suddenly cut out, sputtered a couple of times and died. Cranking several different times and checking all the breakers I could not ascertain what the problem could be. At first the engine would sputter once every time I tried to start it but then just continue to crank, like either no fuel or no spark. Just before it died, all readings were normal - volts, temp and oil - and the engine wasn't hot to the touch.
Unbelievably, we were able to flag down one of the only 2 other boats on the lake and get a tow back to the dock. On the trailer at dry-off I tried once again and of course still no luck.

   Here's the baffling part .... about an hour or so later, finally back at the house I decided to try it one last time before putting her away and she started right up. No hint of a problem. Everything still normal, no sputtering, no rough idle. Just smooth and responsive.

Hmmm.... any guesses??   I can't diagnose a problem that now does not exist so maybe someone here has a thought or perhaps something like this has come up before?

-- For those that don't know my history, this is a 95' SN GT-40.   i.e. no fuel cell.
Engine was a new long block last year and most of the parts around it are new as well.
The only things not replaced at this point is the water circulation pump, fresh water pump, throttle body and high pressure fuel pump.
JCCI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2020 at 10:07pm
Strictly a guess Joe, but I think you should maybe cut that list of 4 things you haven't replaced down to 3 and replace the high pressure fuel pump but maybe do a little troubleshooting first.

Sounds like something electrical heated up and later on it cooled off and started working again. That leaves ya' about a dozen or so choices in the ignition and fuel systems

I'd drive around in circles near the launch ramp with a spark tester and a fuel pressure gauge trying to duplicate the conditions and waiting for it to happen again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 12:40am
LOL..... Well Ken, short of driving around in circles with a bunch of equipment and hoping it will happen again I was hoping one of the big brains on the site might have some insight first. Did I mention the water was really cold?
I do agree with the hot electrical possibility and had already thought perhaps the HP fuel pump but figured this was a good place to start since I was back home anyway.
I'll maybe have some time toward the end of the week to give it a test run.   Or circle in this case
JCCI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 8:54am
If it happens again, try squirting small amount of fuel into intake. If it starts, that suggests the fuel system is at fault.

IIRC there is a relay that can cause FI to fail. You might want to get a spare but not change it until motor quits.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 10:33am
My '96 sport had a similar symptoms and I finally found the short piece of fuel line within the canister had a split about 3/8" long.
I am no heavy hitter on the site and often rely upon the wisdom of others but I would give strong consideration to a fuel delivery issue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 1:14pm
I’m with Keno go for a ride armed with the equipment Ken mentioned along with a jumper wire to jump the fuel pumps, that will take the relays out of the equation.
   Sounds to me that something is heating up and once cooled down went back to normal operation, could be a faulty sensor could be the relays, could be distributor, could be fuel pump.
Hard to pin point without more data, go drive around in circles and gather more data.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 1:42pm
Symptoms sound like my old 96 gt 40. i replaced relays and the problem went away. Hope yours is as simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

I’m with Keno go for a ride armed with the equipment Ken mentioned along with a jumper wire to jump the fuel pumps, that will take the relays out of the equation.
   Sounds to me that something is heating up and once cooled down went back to normal operation, could be a faulty sensor could be the relays, could be distributor, could be fuel pump.
Hard to pin point without more data, go drive around in circles and gather more data.


When you talk about jumpering the pumps, if you mean grounding the STO connector with the jumper wire, you still need both the ECA relay and the Fuel pump relay to be functional to make the pumps run.

Maybe you mean something else

Maybe I'm screwed up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 3:47pm
The relays still have to be in but the pumps will run continuously and if I remember right
(which may be wrong) is that bypasses the relay pump wise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2020 at 6:44pm
The jumper provides the ground manually that is normally accomplished by the ECA

The flow path of power to the ECA and the pumps is still the same

The manual ground takes the place of the internal ground that is accomplished in the ECA when the PIP sees 300 ish RPM and completes the circuit to ground automatically.

No PIP signal.........no ground..........no power to the relays for the ECA or pumps, so the pumps won't run

With Key ON Engine OFF and the jumper grounded, the 12 volts gets to the pumps the same way as it normally does,

With the manual jumper grounded the computer is happy and keeps the pumps running till the jumper is removed or the key is turned to OFF or you could pull either relay and the pumps will turn off.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2020 at 12:14am
Well there ya go.
All I remember is when I was having fuel supply issues with my ‘95 it was necessary to jump the pumps to bleed the rail when it wouldn’t start after shutting off for a period of time when hot/normal operating temp. He could be running into that issue .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2020 at 9:04am
There's lots of good info from Lewy in the link below telling how the STO makes things happen when you ground it with the jumper along with plenty of other troubleshooting info

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2020 at 1:32pm
That was a long read and I remember following along guess that gives Joe some tests to start with.
And again no final response/fix from the OP but I assume it was his ECM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2020 at 11:07pm
Lots of great information and advise to try - thanks!   I was planning to head back out to the lake tomorrow to get started but of course we've been called in on an "emergency" diagnose and fix-it job. If we can get things wrapped up by the end of the day I'll probably make it an early Saturday venture. Just hope the lake doesn't get too crowded for my constant circling     
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