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left or right why?

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p/allen View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-04-2006 at 10:57pm
I tried to explain the difference of a left and right hand rotation prop to my SMOKIN HOT BABE, then she stumped me with a question.
   Why is there a difference in left and right rotation? Why didnt they stick to one rotation?
I said wellllllllll. And that was it. I didnt have an answer .
She said , I bet you will find out .

     HELP!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Pat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenpinky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-04-2006 at 11:00pm
I'll tell you if you post a pic of your girlfriend for us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 12:00am
Hey Pat!
You've re-opened an age old arguement.. Ive heard some explenations, but none to my total satisfaction.

In twin engine boats, it makes perfect sense to have opposite rotating props.

But in single engine inboards, one of the things Ive been told was the engine torque would offset the weight of the driver. If this was the fact, then why do they still run "backwards" engines in LH (like a car)controlled boats? (my Higgins, as well as some vintage CCs did this)


Oh well, here we go again! ... btw, you get your heads off your skier yet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Lake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 12:06am
Steve,
Did you get back in the water yet, or are you dry docked until spring?

Pat, I'm sticking with the engine torque offsetting driver weight.

Chuck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 12:13am
Originally posted by The Lake The Lake wrote:

Steve,
Did you get back in the water yet, or are you dry docked until spring?


Chuck


Chuck..had it in the water once for about 10 mins...but was a "band-aid fix".. No boating here til spring.. ..
    may email you..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 1:42am
The best explaination I've heard was to make it more difficult for people to use automotive parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mojoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 7:42am
Pat, While I'm glad to see that you are having intellegent discussions with your "SHB" about motor rotation, next time, please make sure you have the answer to the question.. This way you will continue to keep our male ego's in tact. Or next time, just make something up fir gods sakes... hahaha...


Moj'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 7:44am
some of the reason i think, was to obtain counter rotating props on the twin screws, nowadays you have whats called full power forward and full power reverse transmissions. in which the engines now spin the same rotation and going thru the trans you can get your counter rotation on one and counter clockwise on the other. you never see counter rotating engines in twin screw boats anymore, i think ccw were in abundance at one time, and maybe it does have something to do with the torque of the boat. but all in all i think they designed the ccw engines more for the twin screw boats not for the torque issue on corect crafts or any other single screw boat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 8:06am
pat the simply answer is "that way they can sell more parts becuase it can only use RH parts if it was LH then they could buy anyone's parts and they would loose part sells"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 9:17am
79 i think so to, because when it comes down to anything in this country it is always about the bottem line, they try to label items like pcm, crusader, mercruiser and people are fooled to believe that you have to go to that brand name to but your parts, it kills me especially with the volvo stuff, good marketing   eric
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 9:36am
I do not subscribe to the have to buy PCM or CC parts theory. I really think is has to do with prop torque. My belief is that CC wanted to minimize roll when turning starboard (drivers side). Sure, there were some boats with left hand drive, but maybe not many and CC had only RH engines to drop in.

I think with modern props, the torque is not as much of an issue as it was in days gone by, but now RH props are a CC trade mark of sort. Just my $.02.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 10:29am
there is no way cc went to an engine manufacturer and said build us counter rotating engines, it just happened that they did for the marine industry and correct craft found out that they worked well in the boats. what if back in the day ford or pcm approached cc and said hey we have a surplus of 1000 of these engines we'll give them to you for half of what your paying..... just speculating and it so happens they perform better in single screw boats because of the torque
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 10:34am
in case you missed it the last time

This does come up periodically.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 11:35am
they did it because they wanted too and could.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 11:45am
exactly

The theory it is to balance the weight of the driver doesn't hold water, because that infers that your finely tuned tournament ride immediately becomes unbalanced when one adds an observer. Might have applied in 1965, but not the last three decades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 11:58am
All the theory's are plausible. I even like Chris' theory the best. However, in some states such as my state (TX) observers are not required. So skiing with just the driver is often the case.

What I noticed with my '77 Martinique with a non-standard LH engine and LH prop was that the boat rolled significantly to Starboard when making Starboard turns. Sure, the weight of the driver contributed significantly to this behavior, but I have to believe that a RH prop would help counteract this tendency. Consequently, I usually turned port unless forced to turn Starboard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by David F David F wrote:

I have to believe that a RH prop would help counteract this tendency.


I think that was part of the idea, HELP not necessarily eliminate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 12:28pm
FWIW, I was pulling a skier without an observer the other day (don't tell), and the boat did drive completely differently. Actually wandered a little bit in the course, which was weird since it is typically on rails.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 1:21pm
When all my boat buns have left me for other men, I just move the boom, skylon and jumpseat to the port side and it rides *almost* level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 1:29pm
what rotation do you use in Australia where the water goes down the drain the opposite of here??   
79 said it right but..... if it cost correct craft more to do it, it wouldnt have been done
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 2:28pm
Rotation makes a big difference with the lean with one person in the boat. I finally got the chance to drive someone elses stock 2001 the other day and it basically drives level when I am in it, vs my boat with the std rot eng where I usually drive from the pa$$engers seat if I am in it alone.

Gottaski's debunking of the theory doesn't hold water.

"because that infers that your finely tuned tournament ride immediately becomes unbalanced when one adds an observer"

I don't buy it, by personal observation and by some math... Lets say the rotation of the prop imparts a moment equal to a 220 driver located in the drivers seat, the correct way is to have that moment counteracting the driver, then with the worse case where the driver and spotter are equal in weight you have a max 220 lbs of imbalance, add a third person and you can move them around and all is well so you never have more than one 220 imbalanance and the boat handles it well enough. If the motor rotates the "incorrect way" with the driver alone you get a 440 lb imbalance, throw in a best case of an equal weight spotter and you can get that down to and acceptable 220, but what you usually have is a 100 lb spotter and a 320 lb imbalance and a pretty good lean. All this stuff becomes worse when you add the extra weight naturally on the drivers side of the helm, controls, gauges, stereo, amp, perfect pa$$ etc... all that helps you out if you rotate the correct way.

At 36 the lean isnt too noticeable, and at wakeboarding speeds you can put the phat sack in the right location to get her about level but believe me if I am riding around you cant see the ski nautique letters on the side of the boat sometimes the lean is so bad.

However going on a diet is probably cheaper than reversing the rotation of the motor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

When all my boat buns have left me for other men, I just move the boom, skylon and jumpseat to the port side and it rides *almost* level.


When I bought my Tique, after thorough inspection and a lengthy test drive, I didn't realize, until I saw the PO approach my trailer at the ramp, just how small the Tiques are. He towered over the windshield and the boat had a significant starboard list. Were it not for my lovely wife and two kids, I would say boat buns would almost be a necessity for achieving a proper ride.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 5:20pm
we could beat this to death on why it is, CC may have used it as a great marketing tool against the other manufacturers and it may have helped them sell more boats, in the 60's they didnt have transmissions that you could spin either direction for forward, now every trans manufacturer has them eliminting counter rotation engines( except for cc which sticks with the borgs or the pcm's). Mastercrap uses the zf hurth 630a in which you can spin either direction full power forward. you could put a left or a right hand prop on it.which im pretty sure thier spinning righties.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 7:59pm
Eric,
As for a marketing tool,
Its not just "vintage" Correct Crafts that did this(run RH props).. Chris Crafts were famous for running their motors "flywheel forward" to obtain the RH prop rotation. Ive got a friend with a Century inboard this way also.
"Older" Mastercrafts (70s-80s) as well as my wooden Higgins run reverse rotation,flywheel aft engines..

Soooo, back to the original question..

Im still confused...which is easy to do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-05-2006 at 8:55pm
alot of the old chris's ran twin screw's left and right hand engines with the paragon 1:1's mounted on the front of them (flywheel forward) which kills that theory so again did they do that for the single screw boat or the twin screw, im pretty sure these engine configurations were in place for twin screw boats which there are probably a ratio of lets say 50:1 to single screw boats. when it came to building a single screw boat they had a wide variety of packages to choose from all evolving from the twin screw. there are single screw boats with the helm on the port side which adds more to the mystery
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