Paragon - Refinishing.
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11909
Printed Date: April-28-2024 at 1:06pm
Topic: Paragon - Refinishing.
Posted By: cpelton
Subject: Paragon - Refinishing.
Date Posted: September-10-2008 at 4:27pm
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Hi, I Have a 93 paragon that needs refinishing. Looking for some advice on how to refinish the Mahogany deck and teak floor - which products to use, procedure etc. Boat is dark green fiberglass with dark green leather seating.
Thanks in advance! |
Replies:
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: September-10-2008 at 4:41pm
OH the humanity...I thought all those were trailer queens. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
cpelton wrote:Posted By: nates78ski
Date Posted: September-10-2008 at 4:46pm
I'm glad to see that they're not all trailer queens. Beautiful boats & I'd imagine they look even better IN the water...though i just have to imagine, b/c all I've ever seen are trailer queens 
Nate ------------- Nathan http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1463&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - My '78 Ski Nautique <a href="http://photobucket.com/Nates78ski" rel="nofoll |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: September-10-2008 at 5:16pm
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Welcome!
I used to own the Burgundy Paragon, beautiful boats, still miss that one. On the teak the procedure is the same as your swim deck, clean and then oil, will make things a bit slick however. Sure some of the other guy's will help out with the Mahogany, never had to do ours. Good luck and get that boat in the Diaries!! PS, ours was never a trailer queen either, skied, footed and everything else behind it from day 1!! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-10-2008 at 5:55pm
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cp, Refinishing the mahogany depends on how bad it is. Post some pictures and I can tell if it will need to go to bare wood or not. Any signs of rot or soft spots where the mahogany touches the fiberglass?
Whatever it needs, don't let anyone talk you into using a polyurethane or even worst a automotive type clear coat on it. Top of the line marine spar varnish is needed to hold up to the moisture changes a wood boat sees. Welcome to this great site. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: cpelton
Date Posted: September-10-2008 at 7:08pm
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Thanks for the help so far! I'll post some photos up tomorrow. Its not in too bad of shape; there are spots where the varnish has worn off and the wood has bleached from the sun. There does not seem to be any soft spots or rotting. As for laqeur what product would you recommend? I've read that Sikkins Cetol Light is a good product to use on Mahogany. Any recommendations in oil to use on the teak floor and swim deck? The bow has black sealant between the planks, is it ok to varnish over this?
I know, lots of questions! I'm a beginner when it comes to refinishing. Thanks! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-10-2008 at 8:51pm
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cp, From you telling me that the varnish has worn off in spots and the sun has bleached the wood, off hand it tells me the wood will need to be stripped to bare. I'll know more when I see the pictures. Spar varnish isn't a lacquer and stay away from the Sikkins too. I've seen two disasters from people using it. The spar varnish I prefer is Z-spar/Pettit Flagship. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: cpelton
Date Posted: September-11-2008 at 2:26pm
No problem, I expected to be sanding the wood bare, here are the photos.
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-11-2008 at 2:48pm
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cp, I need to ask a couple more questions. How good do you want this to look? Like it came from the factory or slightly better? How much experience do you have with wood finishing?
It will need to go to bare wood but not by sanding. Paint and varnish remover is needed to strip down all the finish, stain and grain filler. I will go into the needed steps later if you want to proceed with the project. I don't recommend a "quick and dirty" slap on some kind of coating job on the boat. There weren't many made and it deserves better. I know Chris (quinner) regrets getting rid of his Paragon at times! Have you had the Paragon for very long? A bright finished (varnished) wood boat needs at least a light sanding and a couple coats of varnish every couple of years. The time between the varnish is of coarse dependant on the usage. I'm sorry to say that your's is past this point. Can you post a closer picture of the bow deck? I want to look at the deck seams both the live and fake ones. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: September-11-2008 at 3:13pm
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What a neat boat that is. I love the wood plugs in the deck planking and floor planking- what a neat touch. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-11-2008 at 4:21pm
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That's my idea of a wooden boat project! Good luck with it...wish it was in my garage. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-11-2008 at 4:25pm
The only negative I see is that those seats would get pretty hot here in the south.  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: September-11-2008 at 5:10pm
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effin Awesome!
But no Tuna-Tower PAHLEEEZ! ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-11-2008 at 6:32pm
But they have water down there now so they can at least boat!! Greg, What's the latest on your engine? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-11-2008 at 6:53pm
Where did you hear that?!!? We're 'back' to 17' down. 
I think I'll start a thread on the other. I don't want to tarnish that Paragon any further. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-12-2008 at 12:08am
I'd bet with you having it Greg it would look awesome after seeing your woodworking skills. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-12-2008 at 9:49am
Thanks Gary...I'd like to think so! We have several here who would do it justice. I would also have to let Pete coach me on the varnish; I've finished a lot of mahogany with a number of finishes, but not varnish. I think most woodworkers would tell you that the woodworking is the easy part! Of course Pete might be upset with me for pulling that yellow sticker off of the pylon and rendering it less than original...then where would I be?!!?
------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: September-12-2008 at 10:39am
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CP
The Paragon has to be near the top of my list of favorite boats, and I haven't even seen one in person. There are three in the diaries, soon to be four, and they all look great. Take good care of her. Steve ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-12-2008 at 10:39am
Greg, I feel you would do a great job on a wood boat. Get the Pumpkin patch going and I'll get you into a wood boat. The steps on getting a decent varnish job aren't that much different than other wood finishing. There are just more steps, more coats, a $40 Badger hair brush (spar varnish is a problem to spray) and lots of wet sanding!! Don't worry about the yellow sticker. The only reason I may be upset with you pulling it off, is it probably was a warning on not pulling tubes!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: cpelton
Date Posted: September-12-2008 at 2:11pm
| This will be an ongoing project over the winter for a few of us at my company during slow times. I don't have experience with refinishing wood although a couple people who work here do. Thanks for the comments so far, the seats are set to be recovered with matching original vinyl, carpet will be replaced and an all alpine stereo complete with sirius sat radio, ipod, amp and speakers (mounted in the current location so there will be no cutting of new holes). I will take more pictures today of the bow deck. Unfortunatly this boat wasn't cared for as it should have been. That is going to change and will look better than new once we are done. |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-12-2008 at 2:40pm
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If the condition of your garage/shop is any indication, I'd say you'll do well! When you get started, please start a thread and document your progress. There are guys here who can help you along...maybe even save a costly mistake. Best of fortune...she's a beaut'!
Did it have carpet from the factory? What's under the hood? Have you had a chance to run it? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: cpelton
Date Posted: September-12-2008 at 8:20pm
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Here's some more photos. As you can see it has green carpet surrounding the doghouse and below the seats, thats the carpet being replaced.
Under the hood: 
Bow: 
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Posted By: p/allen
Date Posted: September-12-2008 at 10:59pm
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Heck with the boat . How about more pics of the trucks ? ------------- Pat http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w146/72ccfan/100_5977-1.jpg - My 72 Skier Rock River Dixon,ILL. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-13-2008 at 10:05am
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cp, Thanks for the pictures of the deck. I was trying to see if the deck seams need to be reefed out. It's still hard to tell. We'll know more after you get the wood stripped. I'd remove the seaming compound if I was doing it but it's a tough and time consuming process. The preferred method is to caulk the seams before the last or second to last coat of varnish so you will only end up with one or two coats of varnish on the seaming compound. I don't like having the 8 plus coats required on top of the seams. Hopefully CC used some decent caulking like Sika-flex 291 LOT so it's still possible.
Looks like you have some talent in you shop from the looks of your other projects! Thats great but I'd like to mention a few things unique to marine refinishing wood. As mentioned before, stay with the top of the line marine spar varnish and don't use any polyurethanes or automotive clear coatings. There are two major qualities about spar varnish that are needed on wood in a marine application. First, it's ability to handle the moisture and the swelling/shrinking of the wood as moisture changes - it's soft/flexible. I've seen wood boats done with clear coat by a automotive person fail in less than one season from the clear coat cracking/checking. The second is the marine varnish contains UV inhibitors that prevent/slow the UV bleaching out the color of the wood. You see it on your Paragon where the varnish is gone! Brushing varnish is really the tried and true method of getting the varnish down. To spray, the reduction needed to get it trough even a fairly large fluid tip on the gun leaves a very thin mil. build with each coat. Some have had success with heating the varnish but I haven't! As the varnish cools (even in a insulated cup) the viscosity increases. Varnishing is time consuming because dry times between the 8 plus coats are at least 24 hours and then sanding is needed between these coats too but it's what is needed. You will need the best Badger hair brush you can find. Don't let it dry out between coats. Keep it suspended in spirits. Once you get the old finish stripped of ALL the old coating, grain filler and stain, solvent wipe it down and let dry. Sand and bleach. Bleaching is needed because of the spots on you deck where the UV has lightened the wood. The bleach will remove almost all the color from the wood. I've found that "Super Wood" wood bleach made by the Burton L. Norton C0. does a fantastic job. Sand again and if you like what you see then it's time for the filler stain. If you still have some light/dark spots then you may need a second bleaching. Stain will NOT cover up the bad spots! Filler stains do the job of filling the grain of the mahogany (it's a open grain wood) and staining at the same time. It's made in several different colors but looking at your pictures. I'd have to say it's brown mahogany. Get a couple different colors at test it on some scrap mahogany (bleach it too). Filling the grain is a must to level out the surface of the wood. You will never get enough varnish on the wood to level/fill the open grain. Next, varnish!! I'll hold off on that for awhile! Keep your progress posted! BTW, http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/main.do;jsessionid=7863A20A91F224EAF7EA6AC8ADCA4B44.ajp13w - jamestown distributors is a great spot for your refinishing supplies. I just did a search for the Burton Norton wood bleach and couldn't find it. Maybe they are no longer around - My 2 gal. kit has lasted me for lots of years!! Here is a two part kit (2 part is preferred) http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/search.exe?search=wood+bleach&gclid=CMzLmZPU2JUCFQTEGgodNAdAZA - woodworkers supply wood bleach BTW, Woodworkers supply is a great outfit too. I even have their Visa card!! Like the points I get on all my woodworking supply purchases!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Brady
Date Posted: September-13-2008 at 1:04pm
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cp,
Sweet Power Wagon, what year? I can't believe Pete didn't comment on it, well I guess I can as once he gets started on finishing a wood boat.... I once owned a 1960 WM 300, and have often wished I hadn't sold it. Good luck on your refinishing project, that will be a beautiful boat. ------------- Charlie Three Lakes, Wisconsin 69 Barracuda |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-14-2008 at 10:55am
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Chuck,
You're correct that I was preoccupied with the wood refinishing and although I did notice the Dodge didn't recognize it!! It's been a few years since we were running around in our Power Wagons!! (Guys, I had a 1960 W200 - the last year of the flat head!) cp, Looking even closer at the pictures of the wood, the areas where the finish is gone and the lighter wood is showing may not be from UV bleaching out the color. To me, it now looks like CC did the "quick and dirty" finish job!! Spraying the wood with a couple coats of tinted polyurethane (Polyshades) You will notice the dry film mil. build to be very thin and all the open grain is showing indicating no grain filling was done on the Paragon. I've never seen a Paragon in person as it came from the factory but your's sure looks like that's what was done. Chris - comments? Wood boats from the factory no matter who made them never looked like the glass smooth finishes you see at all the shows. It was grain fill/stain, 2 or 3 coats of varnish and they went out the door! We all have the tendency to over restore our classics and antiques whether it be marine or automotive! cp, You never answered the question as to what you want the finish to look like - factory or show? From the looks of your other projects, at this point, I'm assuming show! Greg, Alan or any other woodworker, I'm sure a chill/shudder went up your spines when I mentioned Polyshades!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-15-2008 at 8:34am
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cp, I've never seen this book but I have heard from others just starting into the experience of refinishing their boats that the book was a big help. Lots of pictures.
http://www.amazon.com/Brightwork-Finishing-Wood-Rebecca-Wittman/dp/0071579818 - Brightwork ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-15-2008 at 9:22am
You think they could've gotten the original finish with that stuff? I have a very dusty can of it in the shop...so dusty that I forgot it was there until you mentioned it! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-15-2008 at 10:23am
Greg, It didn't even occur to me at first that CC would have done such a pathetic finishing job using a tinted poly!! Look at the pictures and it sure looks like the color is in the finish and not the wood! If true, they must have learned the finishing technique from the cheap Asian furniture manufacturers! No one around in 93 in the plant from the old days of the wood hulls! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: cpelton
Date Posted: September-15-2008 at 5:58pm
| Sorry to take so long to reply, We will be aiming for better than factory of course, its been put on hold for a while now as things have become busy around the shop. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-28-2008 at 4:31pm
cp, Yesterday at our chapter's ACBS's big show, I had the pleasure of seeing a Paragon for the first time up close and personal. I now believe that a PO of your boat was or had some who was, a real hacker with the re finish job. Here's a page out of the factory brochure:
 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: drfoxmd
Date Posted: April-28-2018 at 11:53pm
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Any chance you still have the Paragon? I am looking for one. Thanks, Doug ------------- D R Fox |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-29-2018 at 12:14am
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This thread is almost 10 years old and cpelton hasn't logged on to CCF since Sept 19th 2008 You might want to start a new thread asking if anyone has a Paragon for sale. |
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: April-29-2018 at 8:11am
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Doug, looks like there is a Paragon for sale here in Atlanta. Check the "For Sale Section" - page four. One available in John's Creek (North Atlanta) ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-29-2018 at 9:01am
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Correct-Craft-20-Used/123094730956?hash=item1ca90488cc:g:LkgAAOSwGkVa3VX3&vxp=mtr" rel="nofollow - Paragon on Ebay ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |