UK’s 78 SN
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13673
Printed Date: May-05-2024 at 11:30am
Topic: UK’s 78 SN
Posted By: uk1979
Subject: UK’s 78 SN
Date Posted: May-14-2009 at 8:36pm
Odds bits I made
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Replies:
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: May-15-2009 at 12:05am
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pretty sweet work there roger.. top drawer.. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-15-2009 at 8:45am
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That looks well thought out. Would you tell us some of the details?
I gotta hang out in your shop someday!!! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-15-2009 at 9:51am
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Roger,
I sure like the idea of using the resin/glass. No problems with it bonding off at bulkheads like you may have with PVC or other tubing. Just more work!! You sure are the pro with the vacuum bagging!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: May-15-2009 at 10:37am
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Did you built the tubes? what did you use for a core?
------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-15-2009 at 2:21pm
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That is so cool. Wish you werent in the UK... Id ask you to make me some! ------------- |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: May-15-2009 at 3:32pm
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Hi Guys thanks for your kind words but none of you warned me about getting hooked on playing with Epoxy & Glass, here are some shots on how I made it.
Have looked around over here as Pete said for Epoxy supplies the West System is good but when you have a Epoxy habit the cost is to high found this one which has many types for different applications even one to make fuel tanks and a Epoxy foam for structural work, the cost is now 50% less now I buy it in a 43Kg drum kit. http://www.sicomin.com/home.asp?DisplayLang=en - Sicomin Epoxy For tubes used Foam edge protectors we use on tops with wood inside if you need a bend just put bits in and then just staple plastic pallet banding along the sides loop round one end and staple down the other side leaving long tail at on end,so when dry you can rap around a stick and pull out. When you fit the foam together over the wood you can make the bend and hold by the odd strip of masking tape then wrap the hole thing in Cling Film /Pallet wrap. As for matting I used 4 axel cloth just in 2 strips each side well wet it will give and shape if you work it around the bend and wrap again with Pallet wrap tight,when all wrapped up you can smooth out a crease with you hands. Make it longer than you need and cut to size,then set up in the boat on blocks and glass a web across to hold together when dry take out and build off it for main ducked,I went for 6inch flex as we have that here. When I had the basic shape right then cut the hole out on the main clean up and add more layers to ouside around joint and 6inch pipe. Thinking about the foam I think you could use the type used on pipes will be trying that out. Thanks again guys Roger. 
Please be careful with this info you may get hooked think I have it bad  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: May-17-2009 at 1:13pm
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Used some pipe foam and it did work out.
Used an off cut of armored cable inside which helps hold in shape and if you twist the foam it makes a bend then tape. As for pulling out fixed a washer to the end of cable and held in vice to pull out. 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 6:20pm
Hi Guys well had a go at making ballast tanks for each side here is how I did it.
------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 6:32pm
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Can not load more pictures will try later, should be filling up this week who can guess the weight of them 2200mm long.
------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 7:36pm
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Roger, that's just plain marvelous!!!
I think I'll have to make a quick trip to the UK soon to see that art work in person... Don't just cover her up yet... You can teach me a thing or two. I can even take two days off at work and come by after you finished work and drive back the next morning... (Can you tell I really really wanna see this craftmanship up close?? LOL). Shoot me a mail: kristof.erens@skynet.be ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 8:05pm
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that thing looks wicked!!! to bad we are crossing by..I´d really would have love to see your work personally!!! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 10:07pm
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Thanks Kris but my stuff is small beer to you,as all who serve for us to be free gets my vote.
Seb I'm sure we will meet soon and keep your post coming great stuff. Here are some more pictures. 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: June-30-2009 at 5:49am
Just talked to my Chief... No problem in getting two days off to come see this little marvel (showed him the pics  ).
Wouldn't be a problem to come look at it. Got anything to do thursday evening...? Give me a call: +32476/259.477 ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-30-2009 at 8:49am
Didn't I ask first? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Kristof wrote:Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: June-30-2009 at 11:48am
Yes you did Greg, but it's just a little more than 6 hours from my home...  ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-30-2009 at 12:31pm
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If I could get Pete to tell me how to change my raw water pump to a sea water pump, I could get there in 5.5...
Too bad my concord is in the shop.  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: June-30-2009 at 5:54pm
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Kris will be great to meet up just give me a few months to finish off some other parts I have on the go, and it will give me a push to finish off the house rebuild, have already thought of my CCF friends around the world and now have a built in coffee machine to fit so all you need to bring is the beans you like and show me how to work it.
I'm working on a bank job at the moment so time is tight (yes I know you like driving but I'm ok for a driver as its not that type of job) but sure we meet soon a share a few beer's or ales. I take it the number you post just need the country code added first. Greg just lean up the mixture and the chevy power should do the 4k on a tank. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: July-01-2009 at 9:39am
I don't know if your phone works with the "+", but if it does, that's the complete number to reach me from anywhere. (Country code for Belgium is either 0032 or +32) ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: July-04-2009 at 12:29pm
Have them full of water and on test
Also go the weights done Tank 1 
Tank 2 
Now on Tank 3 under the back seat. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-05-2009 at 11:25am
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Which side are you going to put the heavy one on?
Just kidding; that's amazing that your weights are so close! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: July-05-2009 at 11:48am
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little piece of engineering!!! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: July-05-2009 at 1:05pm
Greg and Seb I could spin a load of BS that it was all worked out but the truth is I just went for it to see if I could do it had no idea of what weight it would come out to shame the extra 2 lb is on the drivers side, still if I use speedo's instead of board shorts may balance it up.  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: July-06-2009 at 5:05pm
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Little threadjack, sorry...
Roger... Go check over http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14215&PID=165349&title=change-of-plans-again#165349 - here and over http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13953&title=european-ccf-reunion - here ... Reunion is taking form... ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: nautiless
Date Posted: July-07-2009 at 1:49pm
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Roger:
Fancy work. Most impressed...... ------------- 1982 SN 2001 RIP (Resto in Progress) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4400 - Don's Diary |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: July-07-2009 at 7:46pm
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Nautiless thanks, you will have no problem with your stringer job had the tanks full all over the weekend until Monday and not a drip to be seen, did think I would have the odd one but all clear just shows how good the epoxy is.
Oh and thanks for letting us win one game ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: July-07-2009 at 7:58pm
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thraed jack..
nauti..so u like soccer? how about me going there to the world cup? got place? LOL ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: nautiless
Date Posted: July-08-2009 at 5:25am
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No prob Roger. The Lion's forwards had us worked out last weekend. ------------- 1982 SN 2001 RIP (Resto in Progress) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4400 - Don's Diary |
Posted By: nautiless
Date Posted: July-08-2009 at 5:27am
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Kap:
I enjoy both football and rugby. We're really jacking up for World Cup. Our city is a host city so pop in if you like. I got space.....you're welcome. ------------- 1982 SN 2001 RIP (Resto in Progress) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4400 - Don's Diary |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: July-08-2009 at 5:37pm
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not sure as I will be left with the pockets empty after my euro trip and boat TLC!!!
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: July-08-2009 at 9:49pm
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Seb you can always earn more money but time once its used that's it. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: nau7iqu9
Date Posted: September-17-2009 at 2:07am
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Hey Alan, you don't know off hand if my 79 should have a steel frame for the pylon do you? Either way I have a problem, just curious. Started going through the boat tonight after work to see about fixing my loose pylon which was clunking in rough water last week at Clinton and after pulling up the carpet and what looks like someone's attempt at fixing or reinforcing the pylon has made a bigger problem. A section of the stringers from the pylon forward, about 2ft are rotten where they were notched for the steel frame as well as the partition between that and the battery box. Not sure what to do at this point. I'll post some pics tomorrow. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Shaun |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: September-17-2009 at 7:47am
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Shaun I think the cradle came in mid to end of 79 so if you do not have one I think yours is pre cradle which was a 6x2 notched into the stringers and across under the floor, as for the partition in front of it yes it should be there and water tight if not water will soak into the foam and slow the boat down with all the extra weight.
May be able to pull the pylon out and fix a 8x2 or bigger to get you to the end of the season but it sure looks like its a full stringer job in the fall/winter. Have a look at this post too, you will see what needs to be done. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12719&KW=&title=79-nautique-rebuild - 79 nautique rebuild Roger, ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: September-17-2009 at 6:45pm
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shaun most likely you will end up doing the stringers!!! if you foung rot there its surely on the strigers also....
Roger any updates on your boat? pics? Seb ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: September-17-2009 at 8:18pm
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Seb here are some odd bits I did a while back.
All in S/S and Glass/Epoxy 
All the best Roger. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 79TiqueRebuild
Date Posted: September-19-2009 at 11:57pm
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Roger, Looks great! I don't think you will be concerned with wood rot.Thanks for the bump. I hope to get going on my project again soon. Been waiting since April on Our contract at work.
Is the hole for the rudder drilled bigger then filled with epoxy for more strength? Also is the backing coosa board? Keep the pictures coming. Monty |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: September-20-2009 at 11:40am
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Thanks Monty good to here from you,not good on the contract front not sure how it works in the USA , but with this hanging over your head you just can't plan for the future.
As for the boat I plod on, for the rudder port I used 1/4 sheet glass first to bring me up over the uneven hump in the hull around the port so just cut a big hole and filled around the hump, I found the old wood was set on a cotton wool like glass which was full of water after 3 years out as was the back ply lifting support,water had wicked right up to the top. I know you have uncovered your port just be careful if you grind the glass under the wood its not flat there is a hump to work around. Then on top of the 1/4 layer some cloth followed by 1/2 glass sheet then cloth and biaxial over the top. As for no wood hope the boats will be used by my daughters and there kids if I'm lucky, so with that in mind trying to build in low care boat for sea and lake. The only wood I'm keeping are the 2 blocks each side for the Speedo dampers just to remind me of original Pete. Roger. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-20-2009 at 11:52am
Roger, Thanks for you're consideration. Now I can sleep better!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: September-20-2009 at 12:04pm
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Pete, your passion for CC boats is known around the world, all the best Roger.
------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: September-21-2009 at 11:36pm
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Do you ever use wax for a release agent? Or is it not an issue with the plastic? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3721&sort=&pagenum=6&yrstart=1982&yrend=1982" rel="nofollow - My Blue 82 SOLD! |
Posted By: DAY_TRIP
Date Posted: September-21-2009 at 11:51pm
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Roger,
Great work! love the foam molds. You probably know already but if you want to avoid the plastic you can use PVA. just brush or spray on and it makes a plastic like film over your mold that is water soluable. For flat surfaces you can use a MDF/fiber board with a coat of cheap primer and then the PVA each time you lay up and it will pull right off. Either way very cool work. |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: September-22-2009 at 8:06am
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Hi Andy yes so far only used plastic/pvc to line my moulds, found the stretch pallet wrap works best, using the brown parcel tape is ok if you lay up at the end of the day and strike the next morning, found on one of the main tank bodies I left it for a few days before I struck the mould, which did suck the tape onto the epoxy and took many hours to pick off, so yes mould release would be good to add too I think, I am still a rookie with this and only used what's around the shop, come to think of it we have some bees wax I wonder ? also if waxed may find the epoxy soaked biaxial will slide around, it was hard without wax did feel like I ran out of hands when laying up.
Roger ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: September-22-2009 at 8:21am
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HI Jim and thanks good to see how others are doing there glass work, like the Idea of your stringers will have a go at that on my other 78 and will try your PVA tip as I have tones of Mdf here and PVA but may have a slight problem as I think in the USA your PVA is much better,yellow in colour and pure, as in the UK we have the white type which has allot of fillers in it but will give it a go.
Have a look at Hasbeenskier posts he has used a sheet of glass with wax. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12191&KW=&title=more-like-a-briar-patch - More Like a Briar Patch Roger. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-07-2009 at 11:49am
Have been trying out an idea with foam,seems to work.
First built up a former where I need a gap and laid in some pull strips ( I used plastic pallet banding ) 
Then lined out the hole thing with PVC sheet and used a hair drier to soften and fold making sure it all in one piece and extra to over hang all round, I used DPC the PVC used in concrete floors as its strong. 
Made a top cap out of mdf cover with PVC, with joint on the out side and holes to pour the foam through. 
Lay top cap on top with some weights and sticks. 
When dry cut off PVC from top and flush off foam around holes should the be able to lift off top board and peel off PVC top. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-07-2009 at 12:03pm
If you have the odd hole make a small amount of foam and fill, just lay the PVC back on then the board with weights 
Once your happy with the foam just clean off odd bits around the edges and fold over the over hang onto the top and tape up 
Now you should have the foam in a bag 
This should be Ok for the guys that use sheet material for the floor like I am, but would need some more thought if you are to lay up a floor over it. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-07-2009 at 12:36pm
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Roger,
I always enjoy your ideas because you really think "out of the box" but with a engineered perspective too. I think I mentioned it before but I really like your fabbing up the ductwork with glass. No worries with it bonding off to bulkheads because of a dissimilar materials. What's the idea with the pull strips? Foam removal in one piece? EDIT: I see you just added more pictures with the foam removed so disregard my question!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-07-2009 at 2:25pm
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Thanks Peter thought it would make a few smile, it was my first attempt with foam so unsure how tight it would go but as it happened the PVC I used was a good thickness and along with the pour holes not that much pressure build up, but you do get some heat as it sets so you could get problems if you used thin PVC
As for the pull strips as it worked out they were not needed you can just lift out foam in a bag in one. 
One thing that may be of interest to the purists if you are going to pour Foam straight into the hull for a lay up floor you could do as I have but cut the PVC off around the top or if its a total original foam straight in the hull make some boards up with pour holes cover with PVC to lay on top of stringers add weights and fill that way foam is set at right height with that nice film to the top. Need some out of the box thinking juice so a few bottles of Old Peculiar Ale should do it  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: November-07-2009 at 4:29pm
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Roger..you are the man!! that boatis looking good!!! keep it going... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-15-2009 at 5:23pm
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Lets see how much water the foam of today will soak up? the lump is off the top of a pour hole so has a nice skin on the dome and a sawn flat face to the other side.
The dry weight is 46.7g now have placed in a old can under water with a rock on it to hold it down, will check the weight every so often. 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: November-15-2009 at 11:57pm
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Interesting science fair project you've go goin there! I've always wanted to test and see how much it would soak up.
Maybe the next segment needs to be how much it will soak up sitting in an inch of water. I can't imagine there being more than that sitting in the bottom of the boat but mine was soaked about 3 in up. ------------- |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 6:05pm
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After the first 24 hours under water took it out and dried the outside only,weight is now 56.3g so has soaked up by 9.60g or put on 0.34 of a ounce of water, the volume of the foam is around 22 cubic inches,now back under water to see if it will soak more.
So far its holding up well.  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 8:11pm
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It will be interesting to see how long it takes to dry out when in the bottom of a bilge! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-18-2009 at 10:19am
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never, ever notice the stink? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-18-2009 at 11:49am
Eric not that much of a smell from this type so no stink!! its the cost that stinks £61.50 per 10kg
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-22-2009 at 5:37pm
Checked the foam now after a week submerged now at 60.2g so has soaked up by 13.5g (0.48 oz) so still holding up well,now submerged for another week.
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: November-22-2009 at 6:12pm
It might still be holding up well, but it soakes water anyway. Imangine how much it soakes up in all the years one uses his boat... This one is one to add on my "I-will-not-refoam-my-boat"-list  ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-23-2009 at 8:24pm
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There you go Kris that's the amount of water the foam has taken on after a week! my thoughts are it will now level out but time will tell.
As for foam or something else against running nothing again is subjective to if water actually finds it way inside the hull in a big way and how well you do your floor stringer rebuild. Again some of this is down to how you intend to use your boat,for me I shall be in the sea as well,may even run over to France on a flat days its only 26 miles so the tanks and foam give me piece of mind out at sea. The way I see it if you run with nothing and for some reason water is finding its way into the voids it will just fill up and hold more water unless its well air vented in some way and if you should take on a big wave could sink. So if there is something under the floor that is buoyant there is less room for water to fill, now having played around with the modern foam and something Pete has said many moons ago will try another test on the foam. Thanks for your input and just for fun popped a bit of packing foam which i think is like the pool noodles been under a day taken on 0.5g 
13.5g of water. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-25-2009 at 1:25pm
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Trying out another test on the foam, this time made a quick mould up to make a 6in block which has the foam film to all faces, have lost a few corners taking out the mould and it did take two goes to get the right amount of foam in the mould bit to much first time which lifted the lid off with a 2 stone weight on it.
As Pete said a while back about keeping the skin/film on the foam, This could be a way forward as I think the film is almost water tight. The mould I used was lined with the PVC which gives a good film to the outside of the foam. This time its in a can of water but only half of the foam is under water,will check weight a time goes on,dry weight is 191.00g 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 79TiqueRebuild
Date Posted: November-25-2009 at 10:38pm
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Roger,
Thanks for taking on the testing of foam. I think what we need to do is figure out a way to encapsulate the foam similar to the way they do the dock foam. I like your foam mold if there was only a way to heat shrink it to waterproof it. Monty |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-26-2009 at 7:25am
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Hi Monty and thanks, you have a good point on encapsulating the foam my first thoughts was to use a heat shrink wrap gun (run off a propane bottle ) I tried to get one off eBay and just got outbid all the time and a new one start around £300 I think I was up against the flat roof guys who use the to melt there felt/tar .
Not sure if its the same a you guys use to cover up boats in the winter, anyway I would have had a go at heat shrink into the hull then pour foam as I did with the Pvc sheet re heat and fold over and seal, or if that didn't work do as I did then take the foam out and then heat shrink wrap, and as you think would be much neater may have more luck on the other 78. Hope you now have your contract all sorted out now and its all go back on the boat Roger. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: November-26-2009 at 11:36am
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Roger - I think you are onto something - waterproof foam! It satifies both sides of the foam/no foam discussion (although what will we argue about next year?) You should patent this. Maybe there is a way to seal the seam using a process similar to the food-saver storage bag sealers? Maybe the foam could just be painted with bed liner or similar waterproof emulsion. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: November-26-2009 at 12:56pm
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I love your thoughts but you will never create "waterproof" foam. The idea would be to give the water a place to go. Place 1" foam insulation board in the bottom of each cavity prior to foaming, then foam as above. Pull the foam out in its baggie. Remove the foam insulation board and replace with glassed in 1" ribs running with the slope of the hull toward the bilge. (or even corrugated fiberglass roofing) Lots of lateral drainage holes in the stringers to make sure the water gets out. If the water cannot stay in contact with the foam, I suspect the foam would never adsorb much of it.
------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: form&function
Date Posted: November-26-2009 at 1:46pm
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Correct crafts have a large amount of foam in the upper cap that never even touches water in sinking conditions.I would be willing to bet you can take the foam out of the floor and still not sink the boat.
Of course if you think about it air is more bouyant than foam and creating a trapping system in the hull is the most effective solution. Does anybody know how they build the new boats? |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-26-2009 at 2:24pm
Thanks Chris now that's an idea to paint something over it could you treat it like wood and coat it with CPES and Epoxy that should seal it all up and now built in drainage by Gary along with Ryans's air pockets too, how about saving your plastic bottles with caps put them in with the foam so less foam to take up water no gaps between the bottles and you save on foam cost too as you use less, the collective brain is kicking in we will soon have it all worked out  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: form&function
Date Posted: November-26-2009 at 4:23pm
| Or you could cap a series of tubes and fill in the blank spaces with foam.Then seal the whole package. |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: November-26-2009 at 7:38pm
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Keep the ideas coming... We might be up to something!
Revolutionize the boating industry... 
We had all our cheap handles and flag poles we use in the show team filled up with foam and sealed afterwards to make them buoyant... A series of these foam filled tubes (f&f's idea) isn't all that far fetched. ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-26-2009 at 7:39pm
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Ryan tubes would do the job, maybe the flexi type that can bend back and forth so only 2 ends to block off then fill with foam in the Pvc and wrap for a sheet floor or coat for a lay up floor, looking good.
Just did the weight of the block after 24 hours in water and looks like the skin on foam is much better at stopping water soaking in now @ 193.4g think some of the gain is due to loss of the skin when I took it out the mould if you look a picture you can see. At the moment its added by 2.4g (0.084657)oz now back in the water,next weight after a week.  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: form&function
Date Posted: November-26-2009 at 9:48pm
| Epoxy is not hydroscopic.Just build some tubes out of epoxy and leave them full of air caping both ends.Then build a bracing system that holds all the tubes in the hull.You could do some tests to see how bouyant the factory foam volume is then calculate the tubing volume. |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-27-2009 at 9:22am
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Ryan that's a good call on the old foam as you said I still have some up under the bow, will try and cut some out with the skin on to test how much it soaks up and buoyancy, as for epoxy tubes yes would work too, brings us full circle as I have the 2 epoxy ballast tanks, if I get the pluming right will work as buoyancy when not in use, as for how much buoyancy they make will need to try and work out, now you got me scratching my head.
If others know how here are some stats each Tank weight dry 35 lb Tank full of water 201 lb ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-27-2009 at 11:50am
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The foam skinning on the inside surface of a enclosed area is one of the reasons I've mentioned foam injection over pouring several times. If you must foam and don't want to go to the extremes of some kind of auxiliary tubes, I feel a epoxy stringer job, a epoxy coating of all inside surfaces and injection will give you the best possible resistance to moisture absorption. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: November-29-2009 at 12:17pm
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This is what I have found so far with my 78 SN using the numbers on a standard boat just the hull should be around 553.2 lb just unsure if the weight given in reference include platform and back seat? if not need to add back onto hull weight, feel free to add of amend would be great to get actual weight of an complete engine and drive as the one I have is off the net and my scales won't go that high.
UK's 78 SN weight lb Ref boat weight 2100 lb 350 engine and drive 1:23:1 950 lb Wood stringers Dug 136 lb Ply wood 40 lb Fiber glass stringers 241.5 lb Ballast tanks 70 lb Foam used new type 3.368 lb/3 Vortec heads complete 2 off 86.20 lb Strut 3.8 lb Prop and shaft 16.1 lb Pylon 21.3 lb Rudder & port 21.4 lb Floor seat mounts 5.6 lb Platform brackets 7 lb Front lifting ring set & pull 6.4 lb Back lifting ring set 4.6 lb Exhaust ports 3.16 lb Exhaust silencers & pipes 29.6 lb Back floor ply and tank support 26.4 lb Extract fan and pipe 1.6 lb Side pockets in ply and wood 2 off 38.4 lb Fuel separator 1.8 lb Battery 110 amp 61.2 lb Driver seat 23.6 lb Passengers seat 29.6 lb Back seat covers 13.6 lb Dog house with extinguisher 72 lb PCM 1.23.1 dry 68 lb Velvet Drive dry ish 95 lb Engine mounts 4 off Chevy 48 lb Engine mounts 4 off Ford 51.6 lb My Guess on all wire and cables 15 lb My Guess on helm, gages, throttle 21 lb Back seat frame 18.2 lb Gas Tank 20.8 lb Teak platform 18.6 lb Windscreen 34.2 lb Ski mirror 3 lb Air guides and mount panel 3.6 lb Steering wheel 14in 4.6 lb Tracking fins 2off 8.2 lb Edelbrock manifolds 2off 25.2 lb My guess on all scews,rubber bump rail,log,ally trim & fittings 32 lb Carpet 16.6 lb Standard Hull with stringers works out at 553.2 lb ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-29-2009 at 12:26pm
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98lbs on the Velvet, lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 7:39pm
Here are my findings on the foams.
Foam with a cut face 2 wk underwater now 61.7g has 15g of water soaked in. Foam block with skin 1 wk underwater now 196.9g has 5.9g of water soaked in. Foam like pool noodles 1 wk underwater now 14.2 has 3.2g of water. Thanks Eric will update my spred sheet now back to my specific gravity tables. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-06-2009 at 6:09pm
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As Ryan suggested have cut some original foam off the under side of the bow to see how
much it will soak up . Dry 42.7 g after the first 24 hours under water now 61.7g 
Some other picture for ref 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-07-2009 at 1:14pm
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Done my attempt on working out floatation on a 70s SN came up with 20 cubic feet of the foam I'm using, think it would be around the same for a Ford boat
Interesting to find how much flotation there is built in the boat, wood stringer system is worth 115.85 lb and the total for the boat without foam 219.92lb I have tried to post my excel spread sheet with no joy so put it in word still no luck! if someone know how to please let me know and will post and Easy on the red pen all you engineers out there. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: form&function
Date Posted: December-07-2009 at 3:46pm
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I still think a correct craft will float without the floor foam.
Just need to find someone willing to sink there boat
|
Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: December-07-2009 at 4:09pm
Someone already tried.......... but not a scientific study!!
 ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-09-2009 at 3:53pm
Well I think I'm there now you just need to pick what you have on your boat to work out flotation.
Easy on the red pen guys ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-11-2009 at 11:46am
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Did these a year or so ago, may be of help to others and could help keep the average age of boats here down
Sorry but sizes are mm 
Sizes taken off my old stringers at the wide side of each,always check your ones are the same if you use the above drawings on your project. Have Cad file if you need to print full size for template. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-13-2009 at 3:32pm
Update on my foam in water tests.
New type foam dry 46.7g with a cut face 3 wk underwater now 66.1g has 19.4g of water soaked in. New type foam block 6x6x6in with skin dry 191g 2 wk underwater now 199.5g has 8.5g of water soaked in. Foam like pool noodles dry 11g 2 wk underwater now 15.9g has 4.9g of water soaked in. Original Foam dry 42.7g 1 wk underwater now 88.2g has 45.50g of water soaked in. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: December-13-2009 at 3:36pm
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WOW! That original foam took on some serious numbers! What a cool project! ------------- |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: December-13-2009 at 5:51pm
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So there is no such thing as waterproof foam. Great data! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-13-2009 at 9:04pm
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Roger, excellent source of information, more reasons to solidify the foam issue, and its one of those issues that is mandated by the powers to be but the end result is not positive. to date we have one positive reason for foam and that is flotation, but you took on the task and once again turned the issue into another negative. Foam is put in these boats to satisfy the USCG, but with extensive testing and time we can see the many negatives of the foam, you really have to sit down and reason why or why not you would want to re-foam your boat if you plan an extensive rebuild on it. the foam does provide short term flotation, but after time does it become a safety issue and possibly weigh the boat down and increase the chance of it sinking with the saturation of water and being a catylyst for rot does this create safety issues? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: form&function
Date Posted: December-13-2009 at 10:51pm
| I think they put foam in these boats to save cost on stringer and hull materials.All they have to do is make a paper thin hull with a few pieces of wood in it and shoot the foam to it. |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-14-2009 at 6:43am
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Thanks Chris,Chris,Eric,Ryan a few things have crossed my mind with this little test, if you look at the top of the foam block its sunk quite a bit, its been in cold water and that may of effected it ! also those of us in the cold parts of the world could the freezing of water in the new and old foam brake down the closed cells each year so in the spring the foam is ready to soak up more water?
------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-20-2009 at 3:52pm
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Update on my foam in water tests
New type foam dry 46.7g with a cut face 4 wk underwater now 69.1g has 22.4g of water soaked in and is up this week. New type foam block 6x6x6in with skin dry 191g 3 wk underwater now 199.5g has 8.5g of water soaked in and no change for a week. Foam like pool noodles dry 11g 3 wk underwater now 15.9g has 4.9g of water soaked in and no change for a week. Original Foam dry 42.7g 2 wk underwater now 91.9g has 49.20g of water soaked in and is up this week. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: December-20-2009 at 6:09pm
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So:
New foam cut approx 50% weight gain New foam uncut 4% gain Noodles 50% gain Original (I assume open cell) 100%+ gain I know which one I would use! Interesting thought about freezing. I wonder if freezing for an extended period would dry the foam back out - you know how old ice shrinks from solid evaporation? (or whatever the phenomena is called). Maye one of the Northwoods guys might have to set up that part of the test! Okie - got any old foam leftover? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-24-2009 at 12:43pm
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Thanks Chris for taking the time to work out the % and your right the old foam is open cell will keep the tests running until they all stop taking on water. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: davee40
Date Posted: December-24-2009 at 1:06pm
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If i may chime in her after numerous test and still many other mitagating factors left to resolve, cold ,heat ,freezing , why not just eliminate the foam ?. like Erick said the boat companys do it because its mandated by the USCG. most of have enough life vest and ski vest to keep our boats afloat. ------------- davee40 lakeland,fl |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-25-2009 at 1:52pm
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you also have to take into account on the mandate that it is all 22 ft and under boats no matter what type of water the boat sees, typically a ski boat has the advantage of flat water and not open ocean, the boat is for waterskiing so that means most on board should be pretty damn good swimmers. the USCG also requires flotation (life vests) on the boat, and most of the time the boats are on smaller lakes with other boats in the same area. boats are replaceble. with air tight pockets the boat will float for a few hours.....now if you were out in the middle of the ocean those few hours would make a difference..on a private lake or river help is within a half hour i would hope ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: form&function
Date Posted: December-25-2009 at 2:36pm
| There is one test I really wanted to do but not having any foam in my shop I can't.I noticed a slight curvature in the floor and the side of the boat along with cracks all along the bottom and sides where foam meets hull.Most people say its from the floor breaking away from the hull and the side flexing.I think foam expands when it takes on water in turn forcing the hull outward past its cracking point.If a person took a block of foam and covered it with resin on three sides you could emerse it in water and see if the expansion causes cracks. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-25-2009 at 4:17pm
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It has long been my contention that a lot of the floor seperation and stress cracks along the seperation were caused by the wet foam freezing in the winter. I doubt that water alone would cause a significant expansion of the foam, or at least one that would apply such pressure. Wet foam can be squished relatively easily, frozen wet foam cannot. After you see if your wet foam block cracks the resin, throw it in the freezer for a bit. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-30-2009 at 5:34pm
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Will see if I can do some of the other tests, as I found the new foam has sunk over time in cold water will measure how much, just a guess but could it be happening to some newer boats giving a soft floor ? ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Cslaten33
Date Posted: January-03-2010 at 11:53pm
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How has your project came along since the last picture posts? ------------- Thanks Clark Slaten |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: January-04-2010 at 10:29am
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Not much done just back in today, I think some of this cold weather has come across it been as low as -10c here from midd Dec and no sight of it changing.
Have been trying my hand at tig welding and there is a knack, as yet I haven't got it yet. Tried this out to bend the bronze bar for the front keel lift just stuck it in our waste wood heater for a while. 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: January-05-2010 at 5:37pm
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Update on my foam in water tests.
New type foam dry 46.7g with a cut face 6 wk underwater now 70.3g has 23.6g of water soaked in and is up by 1.2g this 2 weeks. New type foam block 6x6x6in with skin dry 191g 5 wk underwater now 199.9g has 8.9g of water soaked in and up by .4 for 2 weeks. Foam like pool noodles dry 11g 5 wk underwater now 15.9g has 4.9g of water soaked in and no change for 2 weeks. Original Foam dry 42.7g 4 wk underwater now 98.1g has 55.4g of water soaked in and is up by 6.2g this 2 weeks. Have now put all outside to freeze for a week, then shall put the tins of water and foam on some heat bars for a few hours. Also took the measurements of how much the foam block had sunk on the face that had been down in the water,all sides had sunk a bit but this side had sunk the most by 3/16 to 5/16, but the skin had kept its size of 6x6x6 in, will now see what freezing and heating will do.  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-05-2010 at 6:18pm
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This foam stuff is very interesting, just noticed it. Nice work Roger! ------------- |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: January-05-2010 at 7:31pm
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Roger,
Brainiac at work LOL. Science in action... ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: January-09-2010 at 5:20pm
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I'm finding this experiment pretty interesting. I was wondering if you thought about a test using new foam with one cut side coated with epoxy or epoxy/glass? since the cut side is up when using foam, its covered in glass. There really isn't a cut side of the new foam directly exposed to water once installed. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001 |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: January-10-2010 at 11:50am
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Ryan,That’s a good point on the cut foam, my tests have just grown over time when working on my boat, still have my first attempt on a block of foam that I could use to cover in epoxy and test, just need this could snap to brake to get on.
Hope my little tests can help others decided what’s best for there needs. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |