Lots of water coming into bilge
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19121
Printed Date: May-05-2024 at 6:33pm
Topic: Lots of water coming into bilge
Posted By: LakeAustin
Subject: Lots of water coming into bilge
Date Posted: August-19-2010 at 10:48pm
| I have an '82 with an automatic bilge pump in it and it seems like it kicks on every couple minutes and shoots quite a bit of water out the hole on the side of the boat. I don't remember it doing this last summer. What is an acceptable amount of water to be getting into the bilge and if it's too much, where could it be coming from and how do I fix it? Thanks. |
Replies:
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: August-19-2010 at 11:21pm
|
I would check these places.
#1) Drive Shaft Packing. It may need adjusting or repacking. Do not get this one too tight or you will burn up the packing. You need a few drips of water a minute to lubricate the drive shaft. Do a search on Shaft packing. You will get a lot of hits. #2) Rudder Shaft Packing. It may need repacking. You tighten this connection very snug. You can not burn up this packing. #3) Holes in the exhaust or exhaust hose will let in water. #4) Hole in the boat is also a problem. LOL !!!! I hope this helps and I am only a hobbiest and not a professional boat mechanic. I am just trying to help. Donald |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 12:23am
| Thanks for the ideas. How would you track down a leak in the exhaust? One of the flappers for the exhaust on the back of the boat sticks in the open position. Could this be letting water in? |
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 12:36am
|
Ben, the stuck flapper should be replaced. You may want to check the exhaust system for leaks. That back flow of water may be leaking back into the boat. The auto bilge should not be kicking on that quickly. Of course check all the other suggested problem areas as well. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 12:56am
| I will definitely replace the flapper. I filled up the bilge with some water in the driveway a cew weeks ago to see if I could see where any water might be leaking out and didn't see anything. |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 12:56am
|
Ben,
My 80 has fiberglass mufflers. The fiberglass mufflers develop cracks over the years. They are easy to fix with Fiberglass. Many just remove and use Stainless Steel or brass pipes. However, the boat makes more noise which many of us feel is a good thing. I am guessing the water is coming from your drive shaft packing. Donald |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 1:25am
|
I had a leak in one of my exhaust lines where the hose goes over the tip by the transom. The easiest way to figure out what side is to start moving a little and while looking down into the engine stop the boat and the water will move forward. Do this for both sides and you should see more water on one side or the other and then you will know what exhaust to check.
Most likely it is the muffler or the connection on the exhaust tip. The tips don't have a lot of surface area on them or any barbs to hold the hose on very well. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 7:48am
|
The exhaust tip flapper is not the cause of the leak. The flappers are simply there to prevent large amounts of water to be forced back up the exhaust from a fast reversal of the boat and getting all the way to the manifolds. They are not a watertight seal in the closed position.
Filling the inside of the boat with water is a good method. Maybe you just didn't fill it far emough. Run the engine and let some water accumulate in the bilge. Check to see if it's warm. If so, then the leak is probably exhaust/muffler related. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 11:34am
|
Is the water in the boat warm water or cold?
If it is warm it is an probably an exhaust or leak on the engine. Tim ------------- |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 11:48am
| That's a good point guys, I've never felt the temp of the bilge water before. I'll look at that this weekend. Thanks for all your input. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 11:54am
|
check the shaft packing gland and tighten it up before your start the goose chase they're leading you on. It's much easier to check and requires yearly/periodic adjustment along with material replacement and the first place I would look for a leak, it's supose to drip but only a couple drops a minute. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 12:30pm
| Yea I'd be willing to bet it's not the exhaust leaking because it leaks when thr boat is sitting still with the motor off. To tighten the shaft seal do you just take a wrench and turn it bit clockwise or is it more involved than that? I tried running some searches last night but couldn't seem to find a good consistent answer. Thanks. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 12:37pm
Wrong on ruling out the exhaust. It's below the water line from where it goes under the floor aft!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
LakeAustin wrote:Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 12:42pm
|
Pete is right (as usual)! When I had my leak through the tip it would start to come in the minute the transom hit the water without the engine running.
That also bring up the temperature of the water. If it is the tip the water will be lake water temperature. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 12:55pm
|
no you can't rule out the exhaust, but you should notice a different tone from the exhaust and hear the exhaust leak under the floor while the engine is running if it is. My point is it's much quicker and easier to check the packing gland then it is to pull the panel and jack with the exhaust. Easy stuff first maybe? pretty common source also.
There should be an inspection plate in the floor, in the center, right behine the motor box, open the cover and the gland will be right there, remove teh safty wire, loosen the jam nut, then tighten the gland down by hand, tighten the jam nut and resafty wire it back. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: DrCC
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 1:50pm
Is this your boat?
|
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 2:30pm
| No my boat is green. That is my lake though (Lake Austin) and I am also an Aggie that drives a tan F150. Where did you find that pic? |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 2:54pm
That is what you call a bad day on the lake Holy SHiznizzle! ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 8:34pm
|
I pulled the access panel off my shaft seal area of the bilge and before I go wrenching on anything I haven't wrenched on before, I'd like to post a pic so you guys can see what I'm looking at. Do I just put a pair of channel locks on the brass nut at the top of the picture and back it off counterclockwise to reveal the packing? Thanks.
On an unrelated note, sometimes when I am turning the boat, usually in reverse, the steering wheel will get stuck briefly until I finesse it back into free operation. Is there any way to fix this too? Thanks. You are all very knowledgable. 
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2010 at 8:46pm
Is the log the source of the water? Don't tighten it unless it is. If the packing is too tight, it will over heat, burn up the packing and score the prop shaft. Just as Chris mentioned, you need to loosen the jam nut behind the packing nut first. You will need two wrenches to do this, One to keep the packing nut from turning and the other to back off the jam nut. Then the packing nut in most cases can be tightened by hand. The jam nut is then tightened back up against the packing nut keeping it from turning. Do this in the water. You want to make sure the packing isn't running hot after 5 minuets or so. Regarding the steering, pull the floor board aft of the engine and take a look at the movement of the cable in relationship to the tiller arm. The clamp block on the cable may has slipped allowing the inner cable to over extend. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: skfitz
Date Posted: August-22-2010 at 12:17am
Are you sure it's not just the force of the water holding your rudder over to one side as you back up? |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-22-2010 at 2:06am
| I guess that's a possibility |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-22-2010 at 10:42am
|
Ben,
The rudder and helm should not lock up as you have described. Investigating the problem is needed before you get in trouble. With the boat out of the water, see if the rudder turns farther one way than the other. That would indicate the clamp block on the cable needs adjustment. We'll, did you find where the water's coming in yet? Keep us informed. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: August-24-2010 at 9:23pm
|
Hey Lake, here is a link regarding the repacking of the shaft. Pictures included. Should be a big help.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box&page=1 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-24-2010 at 9:43pm
|
Jim,
212 posts and still not linking? 
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box&page=1 - Jims link on repacking ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: August-24-2010 at 10:34pm
|
Pete, you caught me. Thanks for linking me up.
And by the way, my comment on replacing the exhaust flapper had to do with what you suggested. That the exhaust is under the water line. An open flapper would let water migrate back into the exhaust tube when the motor is off and the boat sitting still. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-25-2010 at 11:51am
| Thanks Jim |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-25-2010 at 11:59am
|
Ben,
Have you figured out where the water's coming from yet? Have you taken a look at the rudder/tiller arm/cable movement? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-25-2010 at 2:39pm
| I haven't had a chance to yet. I'm hoping to get to it in the next couple of days. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-25-2010 at 2:45pm
Ben, I suggest you check out the steering issue before you put it in the water. Take some pictures showing the clamp block,cable and tiller arm positions in both the full starboard and port rudder positions then post them. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-25-2010 at 4:42pm
| That's a good idea. I'll do that this evening. Thanks for being so willing to help! |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: August-25-2010 at 5:38pm
| I had a leak by the exhaust flange. DOn't know why, I had two extra holes. What I did was that I took the boat to lake without the engine cover and floor. I saw the leak quickly. I took the flange out and re-seal with 3M. Easy fix. |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: August-27-2010 at 8:37pm
Here is a pic of the rudder arm. This is with the wheel all the way to the port side. I couldn't take a pic of the wheel with the rudder all the way to starboard because it gets too dark back under there. 
|
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: August-28-2010 at 12:51am
|
Lake, its hard to tell, but looks like there is a lot of crud/grease at the end of the cable where is makes the connection. Could be it is be gunked up with grease/dirt etc. May want to put it to starboard and extend the cable. Possibly wipe off the crud if it is causing it to bind. Just a thought. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: M17
Date Posted: August-30-2010 at 12:27pm
|
I just joined the forum yesterday. I grew up with an old '69 Mustang, light green, that my family got rid of 15 or 20 years ago. I just bought a 76 Mustang 17 and found this forum, a month or two ago. What little I knew about working on our old boat when I was in high school, I've mostly forgotten.
I have two immediate problems I need to fix: a good bit of water in the bilge when it sits for any significant time (so I hang it between ski rides), and a steering system that's way too difficult to turn. For the steering problem, I bought a new cable from White Lake Marine, and intend to try to replace the old one this weekend. I think I've read most of the threads on here about steering cable replacement, and they're all very helpful. However, I have a question that's more basic than most folks ask -- what do I have to do to access the steering cable aft? Will I be able to see if simply by pulling the back seat, or do I need to pull the seat, and then pull carpet, and then pull the rear deck? Maybe all this will be obvious when I get to the boat on Friday evening (it hangs at our River cabin in Alabama), but I would appreciate even the most basic information you can offer. Also, I bought the Clevis /adaptor for older boats; will its use be obvious when I unhook the old cable? On the flax nut, I guess I have the same question -- do I understand correctly that it's accessible through the round port, just aft of the engine cover? I'm concerned that the amount of water I have coming in exceeds what I should expect even from a loose shaft nut, but I won't really know that until I take a look, with the boat sitting in the water. Also, where do I buy flax (or is goretex, now?), and in what size? Also, what size is my shaft, so I can buy a dowel to use as a jig to cut the right size piece (pieces??)? How many pieces of flax inside the nut? And where do I get a pick (or do I just buy an ice pick and bend the end)? Thanks for any information you have. Pope |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: August-30-2010 at 6:52pm
Pope Welcome to CCF. Fill out your member profile and get a picture up of your boat. We like pictures! I am not the site expert on anything but I did just rebuilt a 73 skier so I got my feet wet in a hurry. Here is what you are likely to encounter as far as the design of the floor in aft the engine cover. There is a removable section of floor usually made of plywood. The stuffing box for the prop shaft is under the round hatch. 
You probably do not have to pull up this piece of ply to replace the steering cable. It all depends on how much clearance you have. You may find things under there that you wont like. 
The stuffing is easy to find. White lake or skidim.com. I could be wrong but I think it is pretty much universal. The best thing to do is to pull the nut off and remove the old stuffing pieces and get your length from that. My took 4 pieces and I think that is pretty standard also. Rudder is packed the same way. The prop shaft seal needs to drip a little bit because it is water lubricated. The rudder does not have to drip. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: M17
Date Posted: August-30-2010 at 9:30pm
|
Thank you. All very helpful information. The nut can't be pulled off without undoing the shaft, right? So if I want to clean out the packing with the shaft still connected, I need to do that with a pick.
I think I just need to get back into the boat (2.5 hours away) this weekend, and see what I see. I know it was very well maintained before I got it; one owner boat, has run well since I bought it in June. I followed your re-build. Great stuff. Thanks. Pope ------------- 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 1:28am
| Well I finally had a chance tonight to back the boat into the water at a secluded ramp so I could have the time to pull the drive shaft access hatch and see what I was dealing with in terms of the leak. From the moment the boat hit the water, I could see I had a steady drip coming from the shaft seal housing. I've attached a picture, hopefully you can see it well enough. So now that I've located the problem, where is the best place to but the replacement packing and do I need to disconnect the driveshaft to change it out? Thanks! |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 1:42am
Oops here's the pic.
|
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 1:48am
If an aggie that is why he backed his boat off the ramp... 
From what I have been told it should be no more than a drip from the packing there. If you feel you can not fix it, I use Ace Marine there for most of my boat. Here is there web site. Ask for Gabe, Robert is there main tech there. He is a PCM genious.. http://www.acemarineaustin.com/ ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 1:51am
| ha thanks Lee. Do you do most of your boating on Lake Austin? Our boats don't make very good Travis boats most of the time. |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 1:53am
No I stay off of that one. I bring my boat to Ace Marine for repairs. That is where I found my 2001. 85. We need to get toghter. I am due for some attention. If not I like to cruise lake austin. Much better lake ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: M17
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 7:09pm
|
When I look at that picture, and read the tutorial on repacking the shaft seal nut, I wonder about the stainless yoke just up the shaft. Does that set screw have to be loosened and that donut moved? Or can the female nut with the packing be undone enough to use a pick and pick out the old flax, without moving that donut? Sorry for these basic questions, but when I jump into this project myself tomorrow evening, I'd like to know what I'm getting into. I received the packing today from White Lake Marine (both flax and Goretex), but I would appreciate any other "repacking the gland seal nut for dummies" advice that I can get.
Pope ------------- 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 7:41pm
|
I just repacked my rudder and shaft. I already had the engine off the boat so all I had to do was pull the prop to remove the shaft. Probably have to remove the safety collar and coupler to remove the shaft.
Once the shaft is out, remove the stuffed nut and take the packing out. Keep the best one so you can cut the new packing to that same length. Then just put in the new pieces one at a time making sure they are pressed into the sides. Reassemble loosely and water test. Mine drips about 3 times a minute and runs cool. Tighten or loosen as needed and then tighten down the locking nut when you find the correct balance between flooding the bilge and burning up the stuffing. The hardest part is removing the shaft. Easy repair. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: skfitz
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 8:23pm
You don't have to remove the shaft to repack the stuffing box.
More pics and instructions here: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box FWIW, when I picked up my boat last year, the leak looked more like a slow-flowing garden hose. |
Posted By: M17
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 9:03pm
|
Thanks for both. I've seen others replace packing without removing the shaft, but it was the safety collar that I just noticed as another potential problem, keeping me from backing the nut off far enough to pick out the old packing.
Anyone know whether the packing is 3/16 or 1/4 for 76 Mustang 17? ------------- 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 9:33pm
| Could I try just tightening down the larger brass nut some more would that fix it or do I actually need to take it apart and repack it? |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: September-02-2010 at 11:26pm
|
Ben - The packing material has a finite life - it eventually hardens & doesn't seal. You can try to just tighten it, but be wary of it getting hot. If you have new packing material & don't know how many hours are on the old packing, it would be worth your time to replace. Then it will be good for the next 10 yrs. It isn't very hard, just takes some time.
I cut the replacement material to be a litle long (such that I had to compress it in). ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: LakeAustin
Date Posted: September-10-2010 at 12:08am
| If you look on my picture above, the silver collar on the driveshaft above the packing seal looks pretty close to the nut for the packing seal. I'm not sure if once I loosen the nut if I can get it high enough to change out the seal. I tried to loosen the nut tonight but it wouldn't budge so I think I need to hit it with some PB Blaster or something. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-10-2010 at 10:11am
The shaft MUST be in place for repacking. The packing rides on the shaft. Without the shaft in there, you'd be stuffing a big hole with nothing in it!!!! Just loosen the set screw on the safety collar and move it forward. Most likely 1/4" ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-10-2010 at 10:16am
As mentioned to Pope above, just loosen the set screw on the safety collar and move it forward. The nut won't "budge"? Did you back off the jam nut behind the packing nut? A penetrating oil isn't needed - it's a bronze or brass nut!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: M17
Date Posted: September-10-2010 at 3:03pm
|
I repacked mine last weekend; it went without a hitch. In one of the posts I read somewhere, someone emphasized how critical it is that, if PB Blaster (or any other solvent) is used, it shouldn't get anywhere near any other seal up the shaft, or you'll lose that seal. The thread I read said, if you use it, dab it on the nut only, with a q-tip.
Mine didn't need that. In fact, I was able to break the nuts easily enough with Channel Locks, properly set. The unpacking of the old flax, and packing of the new, was not very difficult. I took my time hand-tightening once I re-packed, tightening a half-turn, backing off a quarter, tightening a half-turn, backing off, etc. Then, once tight (but still dripping slowly), I did a turn on the water and pulled back into the slip to check. Shaft felt slightly warm, and drip was gone. I backed it off and re-adjusted, and re-tested. That time, shaft stayed cool, and the drip stayed constant. I'd never done any of this maintenance before (or maybe I did as a teenager on our Mustang 69, 35 years ago), but it was simple enough. It's on my list to check again the next trip, to make sure the lock nut stayed locked, and the drip rate is correct. With my new steering cable -- no such luck. The cable in place now is secured against the bulkhead at several places, along with wiring. The new cable looked like the old one, but not exactly, and I had been under the misimpression that I would just pull the old cable, with a following wire or rope, and then pull the new cable down the same path. As I surveyed the job, it looked a good bit more complicated than that, with more fastening positions than I had expected. Maybe I'll go at it again next week, but it may be beyond my paltry mechanic --and engineering -- skills. Pope ------------- 1976 Mustang 17 |