You didn build that !
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
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Forum Discription: Anything non-Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26993
Printed Date: April-28-2024 at 6:16pm
Topic: You didn build that !
Posted By: OverMyHead
Subject: You didn build that !
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 11:30am
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Obama said in a speech yesterday that business is indebted to government for the infrastructure the government provides. Since the government produces nothing and thus cannot create its own revenue, just who does Obama think PAID for that infrastructure. Should he not be saying thank you and feel indebted to us? Arrogance. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 1:00pm
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No one paid for it -- it was deficit spending. Every american taxpayer is indebted for it.. including the businesses. We all elected people that committed us to building it... some of use have just done better about getting changed after the fact who was going to pay what share. Seriously if you think that statement of fact is arrogance then you can simply not hear anything out of that guys mouth and not be looking for a way to hate it. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 2:02pm
In the famous words of Hillary Clinton....."It takes a village"! 
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Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 2:08pm
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Sorry Joe but in my world when I buy someone lunch they better not say "Arent you going to thank ME for letting YOU pay for it." ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 2:30pm
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apparently in your world you call eating your share then leaving before paying for your share of the bill buying lunch for the group? Your logic is not logical and your statement of fact "the government produces nothing" is not fact and therefore not useful as start of logical arguement. Our government produces a large portion of the goods and services consumed in our economy each year. It does this at the direction of our elected officals. That is reality. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 3:36pm
Of which the taxpayers pay for 100% of what the government buys or consumes! This whole discussion is again one of the the government being the be all/end all......or......individuals being free to produce products and services of economic value. The statement Obama made just verifies his government-centric vision of how things should operate. Shocking!! Go ask Steve Jobs if the government created the iPod, or the iPad. Sure, his employees got to work on the roads that government built with taxpayer funds that Steve Jobs paid into. So, I guess from that perspective, the government did create all those great products. Now I just wish government would stop spending so much of THEIR money! |
JoeinNY wrote:Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 4:47pm
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It is part of Obama's take credit for everything and blame for nothing campaign. You need to adjust your way of seeing things to understand. If you don't get it you are a blocker, and or a racist. Once you come around it will all be clear, you will know just how to vote in November, America will become Utopia and we can all sing Kum Ba YA! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 6:18pm
This is where you always loose me Joe. You have no idea how much anyone but yourself pays in taxes each year but you always seem to tell us that we must, and should, pay more. I think that I have paid more than "my fair share" for what I consume. You always seem to belittle what I have payed and what my return might have been. I am thinking that it will never be enough for you and you do not feel that taxes are consumer related at all. Just pay for what they spend and by happy that they spent it for me. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 6:37pm
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Here my comments are specifically in response to those who think they owe nothing to support the government that they take from, and in this case are down right angry for it to even be suggested that they might in fact owe for the benefit they have derived. In general I do feel we all owe more than we are currently paying because the current rates are not enough to cover what we are spending much less enough to pay back what we have already spent. My overall tax rate between various income tax, sales tax, property tax, gas tax.. at all levels is right around 43% (it would be 50% if I didnt take full advantage of the 401k tax loophole) of what I make a year, if warren buffet and mitt romney are paying less than 20% a year, if GE is paying nothing then they are all not paying thier fair share. I dont know why you are feeling so guilty about your rate? You are never going to get me to agree that we should all be paying equal dollar amounts and not equal rates as apple certainly derives much more benefit from the government than I do and income is as good an indicator of that benefit as any and better than most. Call me crazy but I would rather start paying back the money we all owe than to keep running up the credit card. When we arent even willing to tax at the rate required to keep up with what we have already spent then we will never pay down that debt. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 6:59pm
Set the example that Buffet and others wanting higher taxes are not willing to do... https://pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstance.html?nc=1342468461542&agencyFormId=23779454&userFormSearch=https%3A%2F%2Fpay.gov%2Fpaygov%2***************encySearchForms.html%3FshowingDetails%3Dtrue%26showingAll%3Dfalse%26sortProperty%3DagencyFormName%26totalResults%3D2%26nc%3D1342468454284%26agencyDN%3Dou%253DFA_Bureau%2Bof%2Bthe%2BPublic%2BDebt%252Cou%253DFA_Department%2Bof%2Bthe%2BTreasury%252Cou%253DFA_Executive%2BBranch%252Cou%253DFederal%2BAgency%252Cou%253DTreasury%2BWeb%2BApplication%2BInfrastructure%252Cou%253DFiscal%2BService%252Cou%253DDepartment%2Bof%2Bthe%2BTreasury%252Co%253DU.S.%2BGovernment%252Cc%253DUS%26entryDN%3Dou%253DFA_Department%2Bof%2Bthe%2BTreasury%252Cou%253DFA_Executive%2BBranch%252Cou%253DFederal%2BAgency%252Cou%253DTreasury%2BWeb%2BApplication%2BInfrastructure%252Cou%253DFiscal%2BService%252Cou%253DDepartment%2Bof%2Bthe%2BTreasury%252Co%253DU.S.%2BGovernment%252Cc%253DUS%26ascending%3Dtrue%26alphabet%3DD%26pageOffset%3D0" rel="nofollow - Pay.gov to donate to pay down the Public Debt Practice what you preach because it is not do as I say, not as I do... If I felt that I owed more taxes, I would donate to the public debt and feel good about it... But that is not my case. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 7:22pm
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That wouldnt be a bad idea at all, the second we passed a balanced budget amendment that is. Until then you might as well just write a check to the nearest billionaire. I do hold you slightly more responsible for the national debt than me.. as you have been old enough to vote for longer. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 7:30pm
Guilty as charged... But I can say that I have voted everytime that I have been able to.... Navy took me away for awhile and I did not vote while away. Because I vote, I feel that I have the right to complain or support. You do not vote, you do not get a say..... ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 7:55pm
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It all evens out Joe,for example here in Illinois you still get to vote after your gone thus making up for when you were too young ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Waldo
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 10:39pm
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The 1979 Ski Nautique is probably my favorite boat. What do you guys think? Waldo |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 11:19pm
Ahh, not to old, not to new, you must be a moderate. Every read the book "Great Moderates In History"..... It will never be written.  ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 11:25pm
So I am supposed to feel better that they not only spent all of today's money but future money too? The government is merely the administrator of a project for which the people and business pay. To say the "You did not build that." has to be either arrogant or ignorant. If you don't care for the former I am fine with the later. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 11:41pm
Joe, If you think that will solve our problem maybe we should start giving more liquor to alcoholics and More fatty foods to the morbidly obese. We have a spending and entitlement problem. In the 1950's we had 15 people in the private sector for every 1 on the government payroll(government employees and those living on entitlements). Today it is 1.2 private sector employes for every 1 government supported. That is not sustainable. There is no evidence that giving the government more money leads to a reduced deficit, in fact studies have proven that government spending increases faster that the income increase. To give the government an extra cent without first getting spending reduced and a balanced budget agreement is just shooting ourselves in the foot. To claim anything else is sheer denial, and just a justification for those that think the government can spend our money better than we can.
Call me crazy but I would rather tear up the credit card and live on a realistic budget. When we are not required to live within our means we will never pay down the debt. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-16-2012 at 11:49pm
I did not say that . In my world if you have a five dollar sandwich that is what you owe, plus a tip if you were served, that is it. The sandwich does not cost more if you are dead broke or have a million dollars in your pocket. The only ones not paying their share are those that get their sandwich for free, or for a dollar.... to say someone paying 100 dollars for his so 19 people can eat theirs free is not paying his "fair share is very twisted." ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Waldo
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 1:00am
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Ok guys limit of two posts in a row. Waldo |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 11:11am
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Show me someone who talks like that, and I'll show you someone who's never been there. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 12:31pm
Your comparision of my thinking is kind of silly.. my thought would be much closer to saying someone who is obese should both look to do more exercise and limit thier calorie intake and yours is more along the lines of saying screw exercise they should just stop eating all together. The results to the country would be the same as to the person if they were to follow your plans btw. To compare your offered solution to anything else is a stretch to say that I am suggesting to throw them more fatty food is a farce. I do admire how you conservative types like to get all folksy with this made up allegorical stuff but come on.. Not only do you refuse to take the responsibility for the government you have helped create... further you continue to provide statistics as facts that are not in fact factual. The worst kind of debater is one that talks of mythical studies and provides numbers that support your premise but are just made up or wildly stretched cases. You have allowed yourself to become a habitual offender by parroting right wing talking points as facts. A high side figure for government employment vs private at this point would be 1 for 4, not 1 for 1.2... a more realistic way to express it would be 17 percent or 1 out of 5 people employed in the us. Your views are reasonable if your reality is 1 for 1.2, but your reality is made up. These studies that show tax increases dont effect the deficit are nonsense ... reagan lowered taxes and ran deficits.. the debt went up. Before he left office he found a more middle ground and deficits leveled off, Bush and Clinton further tweaked up tax rates and produced a set of rates that ultimately produced surpluses. There is your evidence!!! Bush the second lowered them it provided no economic benefit and increased the debt. Any study that says different ignores the facts... spending will always increase.. the country gets bigger every year if you want to only look at spending and not look at revenue then you can look at it anyway you want but it leads to the decline of america and not growth. Statistics from the 50's are useless unless you are willing to go back to the results of the 50's. Which in 1959 included poverty level for those below 18 at 27% vs 20% now (16% before bush the 2nd), and those above 65 at 35% vs 8.9%... while you’re at it you need to take back the 10 year average increase in life expectancy since the 50’s. Maybe you dont care about old and young people, thats fine but you still need to give back the more than 40 percent increase in inflation adjusted average income since the end of the 50's. If you are unwilling to accept that as the price of your limited government… then your numbers of what it should take to provide the proper environment for America to thrive shouldn’t come from the 50’s. If you are willing to accept those rates as the necessary price of liberty then you are drastically out of the mainstream of America. In the dave method of arguement I can safely say that as for the list of moderates that made positive changes in history it is by definition infinitely larger than conservatives that made positive changes... and I would be a lot closer to fact than any of the crap statistics and studies quoted above. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 1:20pm
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Joe, you think things are going in the right direction then? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 3:05am
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no frickin government helped me build our business. Nobody but my wife and I did it.... THIS MORON IS OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY... all I have seen with him are empty promises.... highest debt(said he was going to cut it in half), high unemployment, high gas prices, I just heard 1/3 of the population depends on some kind of government hand out. And on and on we go... until ALL politicians decide its time to balance the budget,(read CUT THE BUDGET/SPENDING) we will continue to have problems... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 3:33am
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Ok, just so you know the real story, here is what Obama said, I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. So no, you didn't do it all by yourself and blindly following the (r) or (d), you'll only hear what they want you to hear. Anybody can take a sentence out of a speech and use it to support the argument they wish. You'd think in this day we could move beyond this crap slinging, lies, half truths, and 3 second sound bits. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 4:08am
Joe, I never said we shaould have no government or no taxes, that is a stretch that you made. I like your folksy analogy of diet and exercise. For one it is the closet you have ever come to acknowleging that there may be excess in government. What I stated is that we should not raise taxes until we have a plan to balance the budget.(I did not say end all taxes) this would be the same as saying lets not blindly INCREASE the obese persons calorie intake, lets make a diet and exercise plan and see what the intake needs to be. Only conservatives take this aproach. You on the other hand are suggesting that more consumtion is the solution.
I did not quote government employment , I quoted government employment + those living on entitlements ( unemployed, welfare, etc..... combined that is 1.2 private to 1 government funded)
Lots more going on here, Regan slashed taxes and cut government spending creating a major boom,he created 7 million jobs moving millions from net recieviers from the government to tax payers. Only then was he able to increase taxes marginally and reap the benefits. Clinton benefited from Gingriches contract with America and begrudginly instituted welfare reform moving more from welfare to tax payer roles. this made a balance budget far easier.
I dont take that spending must always increase as a given. Certainly not as an excuse to spend as much as possible.
Yes things have changed since the 50's, we have far fewer people working, as compared to those not. And yet we are adding bennefits to those not working, when logic would say we might need to tigheten things up if fewer a going to pay for more. Or we can just continue to deficit spend ourselves off of the finacisl cliff. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 4:20am
I know thats a single sentence out of his speech.. but that statement sounds pretty cut and dried to me... Fact is he camaigned saying he was going to cut the debt in half... Hows that working out? ....also when campaigning he slammed the Repubs.. gas was $2 / gallon. He said it was causing hardships..people couldnt afford to drive to work. Last winter,gas was pushing 4 bucks / gallon, he was cracking jokes about us driving our "macho" SUV's. dont get me wrong, I dont know that anyone (R,or D)can get us out of this mess. Why does the government not realize they need to balance the budget by reducing spending? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 4:35am
Yep thats the speech I heard. I still find it offensive. Again the government administrates, in some cases it helps, in others businesses have made it despite the best efforts of government to stop them. Private companies have been sued by the government for doing background checks, checking immigration status and even for asking for a high school diploma. They have also been shut down for hiring illegal immigrants and been sued for not doing background checks. Everything the government does is paid for by individuales and businesses. Government research may have played a role helping Al Gore create the internet , but who's taxes paid for that research? Who's gas taxes paid for the roads and bridges? Who's property taxes paid for the teachers? Take away taxes and how long does our government keep doing these great things? Answer,they dont. This speech was about how thankfull we are supposed to be for what the government has done for us, but it was a slap in the face to all those that have done for the government saying we did not do it. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 11:20am
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Yeah Dave, sure. How far would you get if you had to build your own roads, secure your own drinking water, educate your kids, establish your own communication, secure you and your family from criminals.... So in the above speech, instead of "SOMEBODY", he used taxpayer, would that make it agreeable? The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. That to me is the essence of the whole argument and what we have forgotten, not in the day to day life, but in elected office and where politics are involved. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 11:57am
It is not the somebody line that was offensive. look at the title of the thread. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 1:43pm
There was a time before gov't...we had to get here somehow. I challenge anyone to look at a road construction site. They will find 0 USA company logos. Next someone will say that gov't built itself. In parting, Manson-Bundy-Dohmer-etc all used roads as well. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 12:42am
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This could be more insidious than I thought. If Obama can get a voting block to believe that government built private business, he then can make a claim to those businesses. Why try to raise taxes on the rich if he can go Hugo Chavez on their businesses and nationalize them? We already have a large portion of the electorate willing to steal from a minority group of the electorate for their own gain through progressive taxes. With this already compromised moral state it is only a small step to start taking businesses. It all starts with baby steps, winning the hearts and minds. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: sweet77
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 10:59pm
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I dont know percentages, facts(or myths) ,numbers or any other kind of political mumbo jumbo. Whay i cant understand is how I get a phone call from a customer whos rental property has no ac. Nice appartment $1000.00 a month for me to rent it. Woman living there with three HORRIBLE children. IPHONE, COMPUTER, tons of cloths laying everywhere a boyfriend who "STAYS" with her.new car ect ect ect.... now in the last six months ive been there 4 times Dirty (FILTHY) filters because there too damn lazy to change them. the property manager says what seems to be the problem i tell him (In an aggravated way) and he proceeds to tell me she said she does not have time. BY THE WAY!!!!!! she does not work nor the boyfriend. she pays $189.00 a month for rent to the realtor and the rest comes out of a government fund. PERIOD END OF STORY!!!!!!!! THE GOVERNMENT IS "F"ed. someone explain this to me??????? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5528&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 76 Nautique "If you do what you always did,You'll get what you always got!" "An empty wagon makes t |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 12:32am
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Sweet, "just drink the cool aid" ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 12:38am
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Sweet, When can Cathie and I rent this place for $189 a month. I would like to have a winter home in Fl for only $189 a month. I would even change the filters if you send her packing and let us move in...  ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 1:12am
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Sweet, you actually got to meet the person that the rich are not paying their fair share to. I hope you took the opportunity to apologize to her behalf of all of us who work and pay taxes, but just not enough. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: MattB
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 8:40am
Interesting thread and something that you only get on Correct Craft fan  Obviously I don't know the actual speech but many of the arguments from you guys are the same as we are going through in the UK, luckily our coalition government has the sense to make cuts in spending and make them hard enough that we feel the pinch but not so hard that it brings us to our knees. Cuts in government spending along with breaks for business and schemes to get people working and starting small businesses is the key to recovery, the more people you have working the more money you are generating and not spending. A cap on the amount of money any family can claim in government support in line with the average wage encourages people to work rather than just claim money from the state. The previous government believed in people working for the state and increasing the number of civil servants, if you work for the government you are in my view not generating income for the country, I'm not suggesting that everyone is a drain as obviously we have firefighters/police/medical staff/rubbish collectors etc that have very valuable jobs but even within these there are savings that can and should be made and efficiency drives that should be pushed forward popular or not. The idea of spending more to get yourself out of recession is pretty ludicrous in my opinion, how is getting yourself in more debt going to get you out of debt? Taxing people more is also a pretty dumb solution, this just prevents people from spending money, stops people with businesses from investing and stops them recruiting other people. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6102" rel="nofollow - 2001 http://uksn2001.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - SN2001 Blog |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 10:32am
Cool story, Bro. Don't know facts or numbers or mumbo jumbo you say? Sounds like you have the above situation figured out. Are you the maintenance guy, or do you have a part in the facts department or the kick the defenseless department. So can I tell you about the families I know where both Mom and Dad whom are college educated, work, pay for and care for a home, raise and pay for a child or children, and still struggle to pay for groceries? Don't bitch about that too? Think Romney types have the money issues like my given situation and urs? Those are hardworking people too, and deserve a credit for what they have done in making America. Teachers, pilots, construction crews, Dr.s, ac repair man, military,..... We had a hand in the success of America. We, as in America. People are not born capable of tking care, raising themselves. This is what I thought Obama said. Most people, me included, think getting folks off welfare is a good idea. Cutting those folks off, without a plan is crazy, and won't work as intended. So how do we get there? ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 10:37am
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#offthecliff Now that would be a good conversation on here. Anyone ? ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 10:43am
Great question, what is your answer? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 10:48am
Nice post Matt. It seems we are determined too not learn the lessons that our neighbors have learned the hard way. We could save a lot of pain by starting the inevitable austerity measures sooner than later. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 11:45am
The sad thing is that it is not only on CCfan you get this stuff.. it is also on wakeworld forums, engine building forums , bbq forums, and every other place where unmoderated posts are allowed on the damn interwebs. I would say it is a positive example of democratic conversation except they are all the same posts with all the same talking points that are all out of context snippets picked and tested by a bunch of overpaid kids working for “conservative think tanks” that are neither conservative nor think. They used to actually pay people to go around and make the posts and write the comments… they don’t even have to do that now… put it on 6 or seven friendly blogs, put it on a talking point list that you send out to a few radio shows, and 8 or 9 hours later you will hear it parroted back to you by all the loyal wing nuts and then reported on by mainstream media or at least on fox. Those guys got 24 hours to fill with only 30 mins of news to fill it with so they will be happy to talk about how people are talking about, or offended by, or is this finally the one that sticks and brings down such and such candidate… Do a search sometime and be amazed how the exact same stuff comes up in a bunch of different places… it aint a case of great minds thinking alike as much as a case of mind control. One should be asking themselves who has to gain from us wasting time and energy getting upset about such trivial nonsense as bad phrasing in one line of a speech, voter fraud that doesn’t actually happen, or “welfare money being spend on tattoos”, or whatever is thrown at the wall today. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 11:58am
Seth, your post does not make sense.... Comparing apples to oranges... Sweet has noted that there are those that do not try to take care of themselves and take advantage of govt assistance to survive for life. You note that you know successful hard working folks that have been a victim of the bad economy. I think that we all know friends and family that fit into one or the other catagory. But we have to accept the difference between the 2 groups. Sweets example has no intention of contributing to America and have chosen a lifestyle that meets their needs and expectations. Your examples are continuing to look for ways to contribute and pull themselves back into the lifestyle they choose to live. Not to accept their current situation as permanent. You ask how do we help both... Limited support will help both groups. Your example needs the limited support to carry them until they get back on their feet. Sweets example needs the limited support to wake them up that they should, and have to, contribute in ways other than having more generations of entitlement living. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 12:10pm
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let me preface this statement by saying I do NOT watch any TV at all...no CNN, no FOX news, nothing. i listen to NPR radio mostly, read local and CNN news online sometimes. I am neither conservative, nor liberal. I favor small government, abortion rights, gay marriage, gun rights...I'm not religious at all...I love the outdoors and I love CC boats!! I find Obama's statement very disturbing. I am very concerned that he (or others like him) is coming after money that I have worked hard for and saved. I believe he will come after it in the form of higher taxes only to give it away in the form of social programs to people who have less than me. I believe he will come after my 401K, salary, and SS (most likely already gone). I believe this because of what he says (like the topic of this post) and what he does (like obama care and all the "stimulus" spending). I think obama care should be repealed and many social programs should be cut to eliminate the incentives to stay on them. I believe in helping people that need help...but only enough to encourage them to help themselves. ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: Hansel
Date Posted: July-20-2012 at 11:37pm
Wow, this is about as extreme an argument point as one can use. They both breathed air too... Seriously?!? Let's get real. Government isn't all good, and it isn't all bad. I am writing this from a former Soviet bloc nation. And I can tellyou I am more thankful than ever for the USA. Nonetheless, we also need to recognize all the good the govt. can do, and how we can effect/hinder such things to occur. My €2... |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-21-2012 at 12:50am
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Obama now says the uproar over his statement is "bogus" and out of context. I am back to my original claim of arrogance. We know what he said, we told him how we feel, and he says I think what you feel is bogus. Nice! ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 1:33am
Your Obama care argument fell flat you it;s face. How exactly is the Affordable Care act costing your money for the ones who, like "welfare" and want free care. Are you one without health insurance? If no, what are you so worried about? Some false baloney, right wing nut ball etc.....? Telling you Obama care is some socialist plot to make your taxes go to the lazy. Chances are you think each part of AFA is needed and makes sense. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 1:51am
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What about Romney's taxes? I think that is what is really on our minds. Is he a billionaire, or did he pay no taxes some years? ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 2:43am
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What about Obamas college transcripts, or the fast and furious memos that holder will not release in contempt of congress? Why cant Obama run on his record instead of personal attacks on Romney? Seriously the Dems are fishing with Romneys taxes. Knowing that they are already calling him a fellon over an issue found to be bogus ten years ago, why give them anything else to make up lies about? I think he should pull a Polosi and say you have to elect me before you can find out about me .------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-24-2012 at 11:34pm
My example is no more extreme than what BO said. It's simple really; it's ignorance(and for those of you who are gov't educated, ignorant doesn't mean stupid). It would be akin to me spouting off about life in the Ukraine when I haven't been there or even anywhere close. From an older thread: "don't feed the animals or they'll learn to be dependant on you instead of fending for themselves". ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-24-2012 at 11:54pm
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So if you are educated by government schools, use government roads, and the internet than the government gets credit for what you accomplish. How does this apply to James Holmes from Colorado? I guess we better give Obama credit where he feels it is do. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 12:47am
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And he got a $26,000 grant from the government. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/24/Colorado-shooter-took-grant-from-feds" rel="nofollow - Government grant |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-25-2012 at 1:36am
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The local gun club black liste him but the government set him up with gun money. Fast and Furious II? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: July-30-2012 at 3:49pm
40% tax on my "cadilac" plan...so 3rd generation wellfare families and illegals can have more babies for free... "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: July-30-2012 at 4:11pm
Of course, that is part of the grand scheme. Make sure their pipeline of voters is full so that the takers out-number the givers to keep the Liberals in power to keep this craziness going in perpetuity. Not a bad plan. Looks like its working. I fear it spells the end of the U.S. as we know it, but, a pretty sharp political strategy. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-30-2012 at 4:49pm
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That is not realistic assessment of what is going to happen to your "cadillac plan" - even if it was a tax on you and not on the insurance company or health plan administrator - a 40 % tax on the portion of your familys health benefits above $27500 starting in 2018 isnt exactly going to lead to the end of the american dream Those who want to know what that provision is really about should do some actual research, and not listen to guys on the internet. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: July-30-2012 at 7:02pm
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are you familiar with the anecdote about the frog and the pot of boiling water?? why not just give ALL your money to the government and let them decide how best to spend it?? ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-30-2012 at 7:21pm
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yes I am familiar with the fable, I am also aware that it is not true. Why not just move somewhere there is no government whatsoever? What is the conservative plan to fix the fact that we get the worst return on our healthcare investment in the entire world... by a huge margin? (Thats a trick question - the affordable health care act was the conservative plan... it is just driving them nuts that Obama implemented it) ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: July-30-2012 at 8:15pm
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i'm not a conservative, so I can't tell you what the conservative plan is...why do we need a government plan in the first place?? do you think social security and medicare were/are good ideas?? if we do have the worst return, why is that?? that is what i'd like to know...why is it so expensive?? put some engineers on the case and address the root cause... ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: JasonS
Date Posted: July-30-2012 at 10:45pm
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My dad BUILT the business that I now own and have expanded greatly. I can tell you from watching him spend several sleepless nights in a row, years without taking a vacation, months without a day off, that the government DID NOT BUILD that business. My father worked himself damn near to death without one penny of help from anyone but the local bank that was charging him outrageous interest and made his electrical business work. We have NEVER been involved in a project that involved government money and have done just fine without it. I bought the business from my parents 3 years ago and have worked it just like my dad did. I have taken the business from 14 employees to 31 in less than three years. Once again not one job or one red cent from the government. Last year alone I worked 3478 hours with 4 days off. That is working 7 days a week. I have a wife and three beautiful daughters that I see all the time. I work my schedule around theirs the best I can so I can be involved in their lives. We get up at 5 a.m. two days a week and run out to the river and ski until 7 a.m. and then I go to work. For some one to tell me or my father that I did not build that business is just as dumb as that low rent dumba** president we have. For all of you that think without the government help that there would be no small businesses you can kiss my @$$. You want to see government waste look at the agricultural and welfare programs. By the way, I own property and quite a few cattle that have in NO WAY had any government help, low interest loans, or anything to purchase or maintain. A rice farmer will recieve a check from our government every year for $50,000 just because they are farming rice. I know that for a fact because I have several cousins and acquaintances that are row crop farmers. THey also have government insurance for crop loss or disaster that cost them NOTHING. They will but supplemental insurance to cover their equipment. You need to get out in the REAL world a little before you form such ignorant opinions. Thanks for Nothing Jason Skelton |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: July-31-2012 at 12:47am
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Jason....You have OBVIOUSLY taken what our Dear Leader has said out of context. What he meant was that HE built the roads and bridges you use to run your business. When you listen to the whole statement he made two weeks ago, it's even worse than the one sentence that got his a$$ in so much trouble. But, he is spinning like crazy trying to dig out. Its fun to watch him twisting in the wind like this knowing darn well we know what he said and meant, and now telling us we can't believe our lying eyes and ears. The teleprompter! Don't leave home without it Mr. President! |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: August-09-2012 at 5:45am
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I have to laugh. I have had several conversations with a hard core far right Chicagoland neighbor of mine over the last few years. He always said we must cut spending, cut taxes, cut government programs, and quit giving handouts to the freeloaders ect. All the usual stuff. Two Toyotas and a Lexus in the driveway, IPhone and all the stuff, along with three kids, two in high school and one in college. Then he lost his job as a biotech engineer when his company moved its research to India about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago. His wife became ill and lost her job. First his family lost their health care, then he couldn't pay the tuition for his daughter to stay in college, then his unemployment ran out. The daughter got a job at 7-11 and the high school kids cut lawns and shoveled snow last winter and did whatever they could to make a little money. When I came home from the cottage last week their house was empty. A neighbor told me that they were evicted and all of their belongings were put on the curb. They were going to try to live in their cars until they could find somewhere to live. It serves them right, they got what they asked for the lazy freeloaders! Next time they may be more careful of what they wish for. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-09-2012 at 9:44am
Wow, where does that come from?!!? This goes back ~2 years and your premise is that cutting taxes etc is bad? Better check with lazy harry... Now there have been cuts to welfare and immigration standards. You wanna shout that from the roof? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: August-09-2012 at 10:52am
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There is a saying that money will always migrate to where it is best treated. If someone elsewhere in the world can provide a delivered service at a lower cost with same quality, eventually they will be awarded the contract. Tariffs can stop that, but that just shifts the cost to others. Best way to stay afloat is to be the best in your industry. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-09-2012 at 10:54am
John, That is a very sad story, ans I am sure it would be even more tragic told from his side. Your neighbor never got his wish, he never saw reasonable government spending that could have kept his job here in the US instead of chasing it to India. I am sure there are plenty of programs that could put this guy in a home and provide food and medical care. It sounds like he is sticking too his principles and living off what he can provide. My prayers go out to him and his family. What really bothers me is the response from a neighbor who, if I remember correctly, earned his living and retirement from the very tax dollars that helped destroy this mans American dream, apparently gloating over his situation with
The party of compassion my @$$. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: August-09-2012 at 12:54pm
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I thought you guys would be dancing in the streets with this story. You succeeded in getting another family of freeloaders off the dole. It's what your plan is all about. Those lazy loafers should get a job, why should we have these entitlement programs that encourage people not to look for work? I think the IRS should investigate them to see if they paid their taxes on on their lawn mowing and snow shoving jobs. I'll bet they paid a higher tax rate than Mittens, as they should. BTW, the developing story of Mittens failure to pay ANY income tax for the years he is refusing to release his returns is interesting to me, how about any of you tax payers. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: August-09-2012 at 2:24pm
Sounds to me like this guy worked most of his life to take care of his family and make a better life for them. This was not a freeloader family. You need to get out more if you think that they were.
Don't you think that the IRS would be active in investigating Romney if this were true. The IRS has not said a word. The Administration would get them involved immediately to end this election and save the money. Think for yourself John. I also would like to add that if it were true, Romney should be investigated and held accountable. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: August-09-2012 at 2:41pm
A state election and 2 presidential primaries and now the best they can do is an anonymous source says he has not paid taxes in 10 years. This is the way O has won every election he has been in, throw a ton of crap out there and hope that some of it sticks. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-09-2012 at 3:11pm
John, Mitt is not required to release any tax returns, he has chosen to give up privacy and post two years worth. His taxes paid in 2010, and 2011 totaled aprox. 8 million dollars. So dirty Harry's claim of no taxes paid in ten years has already been proven to be a lie.  ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: August-09-2012 at 7:02pm
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Sums up where we are. An article from the Czech Republic Observer. "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting an inexperienced man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama Presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their President. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their President." |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: August-09-2012 at 7:55pm
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Wow...I have steered clear of this thread for a while, but that last post by wingwrench is dead on! Leave Obama out of it all together and the underlying message still holds true. We are becoming an uneducated, uninformed, lazy nation of people that believe everything we hear on networks who's only goal is to make money. The left and right are equally guilty of this. It is disappointing to me that these are really the only two people that have a chance of being elected. Two people that play every one of us for fools and are either unwilling or unable to show us how they will make any real change in this country. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 3:26am
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LMFAO!!!!!!!!!! An editorial in the Czech Republic Observer. I may need oxygen after I stop laughing!!!!!!!! ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 3:28am
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I was laughing so hard I accidentally hit the submit button before I was done typing my response above. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!! An editorial in the Czech Republic Observer. I may need medical care after I stop laughing, if I ever do!!!!!!!! At least my medical care, including dental, would be free in the Czech Republic. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 4:02am
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Romney = Tax harvesting. There is your zero tax rate. Not that it is illegal, but it sure isn't right in my book. I suspect Romney thinks the same, otherwise he'd release the records too. Really, could someone here explain how a middle class family making 50K yearly pays 25%, and Romney making 20 mill, pays 13.9%? ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 7:39am
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he who makes the rules, for the hell of it, i want romney in there, just so i can join in on the conversation again a year from now... ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: MattB
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 8:33am
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"avoidance" or "evasion" make your choice. If you have the money available to employ an accountant or tax specialist then one of the above methods is a very legitimate method to reduce your tax burden. The UK is full of schemes which make this possible, I am sure the US is no different, as long as you work within the law then why should there be an issue? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6102" rel="nofollow - 2001 http://uksn2001.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - SN2001 Blog |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 10:24am
I don't see the humor. The Czech's kicked the Communists out and we moved them into the White House. |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 10:25am
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If Romney really just blatntly didn't pay taxes do you really think he would have got this far, (Governor, Pres canidate etc) without the government coming after him? If he on the other hand through legal loopholes, and good acountants paid little or even no tax because the system allows it and his people knew the system then good for him. You may not like it but given the same advantage all of you would take it. Romney, like Obama both know that giving the press and the opponent something to gripe about they can control takes the pressure of other items, allowing them time to stratigize their campaign. Every day we hear new stories of government waste, parties, golden toilet seats, benefits and entitlement abuse, and congress taking more liberties and the answer is tax. No one seems to have anything they can cut. Bothe sides are going to promise the world and if lucky we get 5% of what is promised. Both tell stories and lies about the other party. Question is, which side tells the story you want to hear? Then you vote. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 10:37am
If you are making 50k and paying 25% in taxes it's time to let an accountant do your taxes. Married filing jointly rate is 15% up to $70k. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 10:47am
 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 10:53am
Seth, This is pretty easy to understand if you don't view taxes as solely a way to punish the rich. You are comparing apples and oranges. The guy making 50k is a wage earner and has a 25% federal tax rate but almost know one pays that after deductions so you are comparing a theoretical maximum to Romneys actual. Romney for all practical purposes is retired, and makes his money off capital gains which are taxed at 15%. Then you go to your deductions from that rate. Why are the rates different? That is very complicated. Has to do with psychology, politics, and national goals. Insert retirees in place of rich and you treat the group entirely different. Retirees are a typical democrat weighted demographic and the laws have been written to keep them voting democrat. Also there is a point of maximum benefit and return based on the rates. If the government wants to encourage investment and grow the economy it has to tax a a desirable or at least tolerable rate, which they have determined is 15% to get the results they want. (Clinton lowered capital gains rates). On the bright side for you Obama is bumping capital gains in a discriminatory matter to pay for Obama care (somehow he calls this deficit neutral) by increasing the rate by 3.something percent for those earning over 250,000, and he also wants to increase the overall gains rate. In general whenever new taxes are proposed those with the power find ways to diminish the effects on their sides "friends" while making the other guy pay. It is a very corrupt system. This was the very reason our founders wrote a constitution that limited government. The further we stray from that the worse it gets. We need to take all descrimination out of the system, and put in a small flat tax with no exemptions, period, ever. as soon as you allow one the system will spiral into what we have now. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 11:09am
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Jack(WW), I want to buy you a beer. And yes John and Seth, I'll give yall a dime for the toilet. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 11:57am
Cool, I am determined to make SJRR next year with my boat. Keep the faith, common sense always wins but it make take a while to clean up the mess. Jack |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 12:15pm
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I should know better than to feed into this but it is Friday and raining so... when you include FICA taxes it is pretty close to a 25% tax rate for 50k of taxable income... minus all the allowed deductions of course. I don’t think any reasonable person is thinking that Romney has broken any laws, half the country technically doesn’t pay any federal income tax and certainly they are not all breaking the law. But there was a time when we held a person that wanted to be the leader of the free world to a slightly higher standard than someone who technically didn’t break any laws. It seems silly to even suggest now that there was a time when a president could say something like ask not what your country can do for you, but rather what you can do for your country and we wouldn’t spend the next week debating on whether he was a communist or a socialist. The thing that should make you fearful for the future of your country that so many have fought and died for is that it only costs these billionaires 1% of their income to buy your votes so that the laws are written so that they can spend .1% of their income on great accountants/lawyers that allow them to save 15-35% of their income on taxes. Billionaires don’t mind large deficits and debts, once they get big enough the interest rates will be high enough on government bonds for them to pull their money out of the Ponzi scheme that is the stock market and lend it to the government make a safe 7-8% a year untaxable for the next hundred generations of their families… while your kids are born in debt to their kids… the new Feudalism. A tax code isn’t designed to make people feel better, or punish the rich. Taxes are necessary to pay for what we get and what we have already spent. You may think you or your daddy built your business without any help from anyone but if you can’t minimally acknowledge the soldiers currently overseas protecting you and everything you have… then move to Mexico build a wall around your compound, hire a bunch of armed guards and good luck to you.. but get the hell out of the country that great men have and continue to fight and die to provide for you. For the rest of us we elect a government, decide what we want it to do and empower it to collect taxes to pay for it. We have created an income tax system where economics and fairness is taken into account. We take economics into account to encourage behavior that benefits all by driving growth. One of the most important drivers of growth in a functioning market is access to capital by those that would innovate. Encouraging those that have amassed capital in quantities greater than they can put back into the market by spending to invest it rather than burying it is key to creating the type of vibrant and growing economy that raises everyone up, cures cancer, invents gps based cruised control for watersports boats, and god willing gets a ski nautique to do 70mph. 15% Capital gains rate isn’t something at helps retirees.. the typical retiree is not making 250000 in capital gains a year and if they are paying the same tax rate as someone that is working their arse off to make 250000 a year while putting the kids through college wouldn’t exactly be an punishing burden. The 15% capital gains rate was a give-away to wallstreet that Clinton and Newt share responsibility for, it has some economic justification in that it theoretically encourages investment by increasing the reward and decreasing the risk, however in practice it has proven to be a really bad idea. Unlike a tax code that favors work, business profit, or even just quarterly dividends.. Favoring capital gains has led to many private sector companies to make short sighted decisions that increase their stock price temporarily but never actually show profits. (It also contributed very heavily into the housing bubble). Some of these stock price driven moves which have proven to be long term failures… like moving production to china… buying up all your competitors and “consolidating” operations, making a gabillion loans to people that can’t afford them and then bundling them up and selling them off. Or basically everything companies like Bain do when they buy a company and sell it off rather than transform it into something that produces long term profit. I am not saying that these things are necessarily something we don’t need in the economy … but we now have 15 years of data showing that we should not have a tax code that favors them 2:1 over actual work, or actually building a business and making profit. It has led to an America that builds less, has less opportunity for workers/builders and more for inheritors,… and it concentrated great wealth in the hands of a few - while not achieving the goal of making it easier for the average entrepreneur to access capital to start a business. You combine that great wealth now with the ability to spend whatever they want to influence an election or the electorate- without even having to disclose their activities to influence that election and I don’t see how you ever get that one fixed. But it probably doesn’t start with cutting out the middle man and simply putting .01%er directly into office.. But but joe…. What about the golden toilet seats, the welfare queens, and the out of control spending… and all the waste… it’s the spending dummy. Yes there is some waste… but it aint enough to make much of a difference. All this spending cutting talk doesn’t actually cut spending… it just moves it to the state level, or gets you to spend more of your money on things the government could have provided you cheaper like health insurance, disability insurance, public education, etc. It also serves the inheritor class because they would much rather be taxed at the state level on their property, rather than at the federal level on their income. The rest of the 99.98% of us however feel those property taxes as much or more than we would the income taxes. It also works heavily against the small business owner/entrepreneur who can’t avoid state property taxes or health care costs… which kills the innovation that made this country great. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 12:26pm
Me too; I've missed the last 3.  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 12:27pm
| So what's the answer, OBamma for another 4 years and vote the Dems in to take control of Congress and the Senate and the country will get backon track? |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 1:24pm
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Joe I think you are the only democrat i would ever vote for ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 1:35pm
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What other choice have we left ourselves? The republican party has all but jumped the shark here, we are miles right of Reagan and these high-paid special interest groups are taking out in primaries any conservative willing to acknowledge the government has any role to play in society. Romney has been pushed so far to the Right of his own positions from 10 years ago that it is hard to believe he is the same person. If by some miracle Romney gets elected and actually implements the budget and tax code he claims to support on his website the results will destroy the republican party for at least a generation. Bush put a pretty good hurt to it already, but with a few wars as a distraction and by not actually limiting any spending he was apparently able to distract attention from the fact that all the economic justifications that were used to justify his tax cuts have now been tested and have proven completely and utterly to be failures, we got all the debt and none of the growth. Maybe the death of the republican party is what is needed to bring up a viable alternative.. but with how money driven and centrist to right centrist the democratic party has become the alternative is likely to come from the left. Maybe there is no solution, maybe the rich guys are now rich enough, have enough unfettered access to media and enough americans are willing to accept the fake news that is delivered to them by that media that those that have now will always have and those that don’t won’t ever have much of a chance to.. and maybe as long as we have 500 channels and big macs we just won’t care. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 1:42pm
Easy there - registered member of the independance party - my brother in law is the former county chair - dont want to start any family issues by starting rumors I defected. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: August-10-2012 at 3:49pm
Simple, it's time to flush the toilet. Vote the skum out on both sides of the isle starting at the top. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-11-2012 at 10:12am
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Joe, someday they'll get it....putting the parties aside i would at least expect these guy's to be a good judge of character ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-11-2012 at 1:01pm
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all i know is, for my daughter to play the violin in school this year it will cost me 220.00 bucks (to the school distict), the naysayers dispute this with, "hey, tell your kid to get a paper route...it aint suppose to be that way, yes I agree work ethic should be instilled into children, but also opportunity should be available also. obviously, Romney is part of the problem and not the solution, he lives in a country that gives you the opportunity to clip the consumer (someones money) for 20 million, but, that comes with a price. and here is the difference, I took employment with a company that has democratic values and beliefs, the very first day i was covered 100% on their healthcare plan, not *************** healthcare but excellent HC, needless to say my daughters eye exam and glasses cost me 24 bucks, without this coverage i would estimate this would have been 800.00 out of pocket with out it, that hits my bottom line at home....but, the CEO which he employs close to 500 people took the stage at a recent christening and maybe taboo, but relayed his polictical beliefs to the audiance, very far left, doesnt roll to work in a Mercedes, I listened to every word he said which including paying his and the company's share of taxes, in which it is his and the company's CIVIC duty to pay the taxes and his duty to take care of each and everyone of his employees....it caught me off gaurd and i really changed my thinking about a guy like that. I really dont see any of these qaulities in Romney, Guys like the CEO of the compnay i work for made this a great country, 114 years in business, thats what its about ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-11-2012 at 3:44pm
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Sounds like you work for a great guy. Congratulations, they can be hard to find. Easier to put a hard, honest days work in, knowing what you do about him. Contrast that with working for Romney. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-11-2012 at 6:42pm
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Seth, its funny cause a couple years back when they were slow there the GM was going to lay 3 guys off in the dead of winter, he called the GM and the 3 guys into his office, he took the pink slips and threw them at the GM and said you aint fcin laying anybody off, they are still employed to this day. And yes, Ive spoke to him once in 6 months, he is a leader in my eyes and it did change my thoughts, I'll give him a hard days work and take care of loose ends (pita's) u know what i mean...slackers I dont think we will have to worry about Romney ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: August-11-2012 at 6:51pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPxMZ1WdINs" rel="nofollow - The VP debates are going to be entertaining. The children have had their chance, it's time for the adults to take over. |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-12-2012 at 3:45am
 Don't think we have to worry about Romney winning, in a fair election. Can we move on to the real issues now? Obama's grades. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-12-2012 at 4:04am
I did not click the link. Romney with his selection now has a message and a messenger. Romney sure wasn't getting his message out. Ryan is no stranger to speeches, ( he was a speech writer ), nor talking to skeptical audiences. Obama, the dems, and conservatives got the race they were hoping for. I'm stocking up on the popcorn. Not really, since I have had the boat running, around 70 days ago, it's seen water exactly 61 days. I expect that trend to continue. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-12-2012 at 9:09am
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Seth, I challenge you to name one thing BO has done that is/was good for this country. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-12-2012 at 10:12am
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extended health insurance to 26 year olds under the families plan, released 800 million to clean up the Great Lakes, pulled out of Iraq, killed Osama Bin Laden, extended unemployment..... its hard to name only one thing Greg, i could keep going, you shouldve said "name 10 things" ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-12-2012 at 11:26am
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I was looking for the Dem talking points, but I didn't want to pick on you. 1st go back and watch the link WW posted I admit I don't know much about the great lakes money, but it does fit with his unprecidented spending; and we know the national debt is approaching 16 trillion. We're still in Iraq, and the way he took credit for that is like big al inventing the internet. I'll let the unemployment issue alone; if you like it... ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: August-12-2012 at 1:08pm
Eric, Can you name 10 things that he said he would do but did'nt ? Bet it would be easier.. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |