Barefoot Props
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27291
Printed Date: May-06-2024 at 4:50am
Topic: Barefoot Props
Posted By: footer89
Subject: Barefoot Props
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 12:17am
| I have searched around looking for a prop preference for the BFN. I have an '89 with a 454. Currently I have an Acme 542 that was tweaked by Acme to give a few extra rpms. What are the advantages of the Acme 1598. I have also ran an OJ 14x14 .... Any suggestions? |
Replies:
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 9:52am
How many rpm's are you turning with the 542? Only from what I've read...seems the BBC would over spin that one? Shows what I don't know about the different sizes.  I got a 1598 on advice from here; luv it. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 10:22am
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542 = no way correct ------------- Brian |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 10:51am
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Agreed an acme 542 would be way too small a pitch prop for a healthy barefooter with a 454. An acme 540 will also usually spin too fast and use more fuel than necessary for all around day to day usage. But, if you are looking for maximum holeshot and are regularly pulling multiple deeps or bigger guys then it can be a good choice. An acme 430 is a good all around choice. OJ makes several fine choices as well depending on your performance goals.. but I dont have direct experience driving barefoots with them. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 12:04pm
Something is amiss. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
footer89 wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 12:48pm
I agree but, maybe he's turning that big block at over 6500!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 1:29pm
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A 542 would most likely spin around 5200 on a stock bfn. Way too high for all around use, but should have one hell of a holeshot! Kurtis runs a 540 on his '87 and it turns right at 5k. On the late direct drives (87-90) I might be inclined to run the 430 as joe suggested. It should run in the 4600-4700 range. The 1598 is a great prop as well (we run it on our '79 bfn) and it should turn very similar revs to the stock 14x14 (~4400). ------------- |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 2:18pm
I think it's time for a rebuild (1750 hours). My 542 ( P.O. says the prop was "custom" made for the boat, something about a .115 cup) is only spinning around 4300.  ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 2:22pm
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Are u sure??? At wot? That's not barefoot speed is it? Lol my martini spun the 540 almost 6000 and my 90 ski 5400 ish ------------- Brian |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 2:27pm
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Steve I know where there's a bfn for sale that's not tired 700 hrs,, my garage ------------- Brian |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 2:31pm
Is the 91 still available? ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 2:35pm
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You bet, only had it out once this year so far about a month ago. Craziest summer at work in years as well as put my last dog down but got a new e mastiff 2 nights ago ------------- Brian |
Posted By: mdvalant
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 2:43pm
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We run a 1598 on the 07 330 excal for show team use. That prop is a hoss. Sorry, no idea about BFN's but didn't know anyone else used a 1598 for anything. Neat to know what you guys like that on. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5009 - '90 Ski (sold) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5479 - '00 Sport Mississippi River - Bellevue, IA |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 2:46pm
I would imagine that's only 41mph or so (unloaded)? And only pulling a footer ~39? Is that right? Get a gps to confirm. Either your tach can't be trusted, or you've got some major issues. It should be downright scary out of the hole with that prop on a 454. ------------- |
Posted By: mdvalant
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 2:47pm
thread jack, sorry Steve...I have dibs on the pontoon trailer and the dock is sold alrady I think  ok, carry on. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5009 - '90 Ski (sold) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5479 - '00 Sport Mississippi River - Bellevue, IA |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 2:50pm
I've heard of some 1.23-1.26 boats running 13x14's for ski team duty. Gotta be a nice holeshot/pulling prop on boats that came with ~13x15.5 wheels. The original application for that prop was the big block 1:1 boats, which ran 14x14's from the factory. ------------- |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 3:03pm
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Brian I have a guy who may be interested (and I too am still interested). I will let you know within a week. Tim You are correct with your estimates. The speedos show around 42 without a footer and 40 with a footer and two in the boat. I am trying to get two more MPH's before our race next weekend. I hope to do a timing check on Saturday. I know this may sound funny, but I've lost about 2 mph this season. One issue is that I normally run 93 octane, but my kids have been putting the 87 in for the last two tankfuls. I plan on running the half tank of 87 out tomorrow and giving her some 93. Any ideas on how to get all she has? Mike I didn't think that trailer would last at $750. Good purchase. ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 3:05pm
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BTW I have two band new stock props that came with the boat. Do you think the stock prop would add top end? ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 3:35pm
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All u can do is try the props Steve, run 93 and see what your timing is now when the advance is all in, try 32 degrees full advance then try 36 full advance, see what it likes ------------- Brian |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 6:03pm
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Steve, you're missing 7-8mph, that's kind of a big deal. Have you verified the speedos with a gps? The airguides are only as accurate as you set them to be. If the speed is correct, Then how handy are you? I'd be going through the ignition system first- when's the last time it was tuned up, timing set, etc? If recent, then compression test it. I would not be swapping props. Unless you're pinging on the 87, you won't see better performance with 93. Higher octane doesnt give you more power. More final timing might (ideally you want about 35 deg) and sometimes you need higher octane to keep from pinging with extra timing... But the gas alone doesnt add hp. ------------- |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 6:22pm
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I'm going to do a compression test soon, wires, plugs fuel filter are all fresh. Timing is the big question. When you say advanced timing of 32-36, 35 being the ideal, what is the timing spec? And are you saying 35 btdc? I think it's on my valve covers, but I'd like to know before I head to the boat. footer89, Sorry for the thread jack. I'll buy you two beers at the race.  ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: August-03-2012 at 9:54pm
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Steve that 32-36 degrees will be total timing advance at max or WOT rpms. It is the static advance at idle plus the advance provided by the mechanical system in distributor. You can keep increasing your static advance until you get your required total advance at WOT. Keep your ear tuned for pinging (sometimes called detonation with good reason  ). This is where the higher octane fuel helps.------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-04-2012 at 12:22am
Thanks for that info. I know the static timing should be 10 BTDC. My query is how would you set the timing at WOT? Do you do slight advances to the static timing, then run it at WOT and se what happens? Lewy My uncle just landed here in Michigan for a week long visit. I know it's not close to you, but he came in from Perth. He'll turn 70 on Aug 11th. He bought me my first barefoot wetsuit when I was 16 (32 years ago) ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-04-2012 at 12:39am
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Set the initial timing at idle; probably 650 rpm's. The advance mechanism in your distributer controls the advance from idle on up the rpm range. If you have the original set-up, you have weights and springs that make up your advance mechanism under the mounting plate for the points and condensor. Also, you don't really set final advance. You set the initial and then check the advance. You either need a nice light or timing tape on your balancer to see where she falls. These parts can get rusty over time and cost performance. I don't know your maintence routines, but since you're asking about it... ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: August-04-2012 at 1:19am
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Great thread....My 88 BFN has some vibration (not terrible but annoying) This winter I am going to restore the boat. The previous owner hit something and had the prop cold worked on the boat and the repair looks bad. I have been planning to take the prop to a shop and have it repaired and re balanced. But I wanted some feedback on the performance of the boat...Wide open 4200 RPM at 48 - 49 MPH. Hole shot is strong and the exceleration is excellent. May be a POS prop but the boat runns like a stripped ape. Any feedback would be great... ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-04-2012 at 1:27am
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4200 and 48.5 mph. Nice! This site is great. 10 minutes after I posted, Brian (hotboat) gave me a call to help with my questions. It's almost as if you have a group of buddies along side when you need help with your boat.  And Brians thinking of heading to the Buckethead. Hope you do. ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-04-2012 at 1:40am
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Puttin the pressure on now aren't ya? ------------- Brian |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-04-2012 at 1:49am
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48-49 would be stronger than typical performance for a stock 88. Are those numbers gps verified? 47 would be typical. 4200 is on the low side for the stock 14x14 prop and would not equate to that speed... So something doesn't add up. Steve, final advance is checked in neutral. A timing light with a built in advance dial helps. Hopefully the timing is all in by 3k rpm but check to see where it stops advancing. ------------- |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-04-2012 at 1:53am
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Tim bringing your bfn? ------------- Brian |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: August-04-2012 at 1:55am
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Steve, I will get you my prop specs but it will be next weekend. I will not be down at the river this weekend and I have no idea what prop is on my boat. (I know that sounds bad but I bought the boat in May and we have skied the hell out of it for 3 months without much reguard to the drivetrain) It runs so good my thoughts were do not try to fix something that is not broke. All I did was change the oil and plugs and ski it:) As far as your 454 I am a old school BB fan and have found they are very reliable without much maintenance. I would be surprised if you have an engine issue all of a sudden. My suggestion is eliminate other issues first...get an accurate read on RPM, speedo, and then I would focus on external things like prop, ignition and carb, vac leak...things like that. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-04-2012 at 2:00am
You know it. Tim, I've got the dial style timing light. I should be all set with this and will report my findings after the weekend. ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: August-04-2012 at 2:14am
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When I bought the boat I had no idea where the thing ran or how accurate the speedos were set. The previous owner was a wake boarder that hardley used the boat and knew little about performance. He had a boat performance shop keep the boat tuned and running for him. We took a GPS and set the speedos (so I know they are correct) Tach locked at 4200 wide open. Guess I could take a external tach and check it....But the motor does not sound like is is turning huge Rs. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-06-2012 at 10:42am
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My timing was almost dead on at 10 BTDC. I advanced it a couple degrees. It sounded better at idle. I'm not sure what the advance timing is (at 2500 rpm), but I will check tonight. We could only get 40.5 mph (GPS) with a 185lb footer in tow and 4 guys in the boat. Not bad, but I'm hoping to get a couple more mph tonight. ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-06-2012 at 10:57am
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At what rpm Steve? The 40,5 I'm talkin ------------- Brian |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-06-2012 at 11:08am
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Im more curious what the final timing is than the initial. Rev up to 3k rpm in neutral and see what you have. ------------- |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 11:37am
Final timing at 3000 r's was 35. The strange thing is that my static timing (at 700 r's), according to my timing light as 18 BTDC. I took it on the water by myself and was running 4500 rpms at WOT, and just hitting 45mph. It is what it is for the time being. There is not much I can change between now and Saturday's Buckethead Barefoot race. ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:00pm
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All those numbers look good Steve and you picked up about 200 rpm it appears, that's as good as you'll do on that I would say, may drop it down 3 degrees. Do you actually run 38 miles wide open? Sweet ------------- Brian |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:12pm
With the extra cup thats been added to that 542, it appears to be running revs more consistent with a 540. Your top end numbers are similar to the early 2001's with the 351w, so still about 500rpm and 5mph short of where you should be... are you sure you have a big block under the doghouse?  Are your secondaries coming in all the way?Timing seems fine with 35 deg total advance. I assume you took it a bit past that to make sure it would not advance any further? I thought you said base timing was 10deg, so Im not sure what changed between then and when you got 18deg... was that after a hard run (weights hung up?)? ------------- |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:20pm
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Tim do you feel the prop on my Martinique could help him at all? I know my 540 would fall on its face at a certain point. It dropped mine 400 rpm and gained 5 mph roughly. ------------- Brian |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:34pm
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There is a world of difference between running in the mid-upper 50's (and the RPM's associated with those speeds) and the mid 40's. Where your Martinique is pushing the limits of its hull and driveline components, Steve's BFN is underperforming by a good bit... A healthy 454 in an early (pre-87) Barefoot Nautique should pull a stock sized prop (13x15 Fed, 14x14 Fed/OJ, 13x14 Acme) around 4400rpm, and hit speeds of 49-50mph (unloaded) at a minimum. An Acme 430 (13x13) like youve got would run in the 4700rpm range, I would guess... and speed would likely be about the same. A 540 would run even more revs (~5000), and speed might be a tick slower, as the WOT rpm's would then be a good bit higher than the engine's hp peak (4400). Holeshot would be much improved though. What we dont know is why Steve's particular combination isnt performing up to snuff. It should be capable of pulling that cupped 542 a lot more than 4500rpm. If its simply a tuning issue, then a slightly larger prop (generally speaking) should be a better all around performer on that hull/powertrain combination. If the engine is simply tired, then continuing to run the smaller prop at the current RPM's he's seeing is probably less stressful on the components and will yield the best performance one could expect. ------------- |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 1:53am
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What is the Max RPMs a 1988 PCM 330 HP 454 can be pushed to. I do know from my muscle cars there is a point where valve float is at risk due to high RPM. The reason I am asking is I am considering a winter tear down and basic rebuild with just a hone/rings, bearings, timing chain and gaskets, oil pump. Not sure what I want to do with the heads yet but I do not want to make any changes that will reduce the gas milage. (increase fuel consumption) My reasoning is I have no idea the actual hours on the boat/drive train. Clock says 500 now but we all know those can be un plugged. If I do this much work I want to make sure I prop it right with no risk of valve float. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 2:21am
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This is where the reference section is your friend,depending which 454 you have there 2 different answers. If you are not over reving it now, just by changing the parts you mentioned won't change anything unless it's really worn out and you have reproped to that. Now if you were to change the manifold, cam and springs that will. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 2:45am
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Thanks Gary.....Did not know all the engine info was there.....Or mabey I just forgot. Excellent I am 99 % confident my engine is not the high compression/390HP 454 . But I will check the data plate if I can still read it. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 2:52am
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Your welcome Tom. Even though I don't have a PCM I have found that they have alot of knowledge in them and have used them up until I found the manual for mine. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 11:57am
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The max "safe" rpm of a stock PCM engine is really not that important. Just know that its quite a bit higher than you'd want to spin the engine for optimal performance. My guess is 5200 is plenty safe, most likely its a good bit higher. You'll start getting lousier and lousier performance and economy as you prop the boat to turn north of 4600, as you would be continuing to move further away from the point where you make peak hp (4400). I think we've only seen one HO 454 in a CC posted recently, though there are supposedly several running around. They were wild LH motors that were dealer installed though, so certainly not run of the mill like the 330hp versions. I would strongly consider a warmer top end on the motor if youre going to all the trouble to rebuild the bottom. The stock peanut port heads are pretty lousy- a set of large ovals (like the 781 or 049 castings) would be a huge improvement. Rectangles would be overkill and come with a penalty at the low to midrange... but run great up top if youre so inclined. A slightly warmer cam and a decent intake manifold would really wake the boat up. Greg has such a combo in his '88 and is running around 53mph... ask him how he likes it. I see no reason why a modest bump in hp would correlate to a major increase in fuel consumption... after all, engines are air pumps and better breathing parts simply make them more efficient. FYI, I tried the 430 on our '79 this past weekend, and as expected, it turns 300-400 more RPM than the 1598. Its definitely an improvement out of the hole. Thats the prop I would put on your boat if you can verify 2 things: 1) You have a stock sized (14x14) prop on it now 2) The 4200 RPM you are turning at WOT is accurate Bring the GPS with you next time. Airguides are pretty decent throughout the band, but can be off a little at WOT... so if you set them at skiing speeds, they may not be 100% believable in the mid-upper 40's. 48-49mph is at least 1-2mph higher than I would have expected, especially considering your rpm's are on the low side by about 200rpm. ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 12:04pm
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Just fyi I believe the guys in the red boat we re gelled ran the 1598 at the bucket head that weekend and loved it. I don't know actual numbers from the race. I think Mark is spining the 430 on his 91 I'll have to verify. Not barefoot talk but the gps is coming out and the 540 is going on this weekend Tim. .....I smell gt40 heads, and a different intake this winter. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 12:30pm
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A 430 on a '91 would be incorrect, I would think... doesnt the v-drive have a reduction? For heavy loads on a stock later direct drive (87-90), I think the 430 should get strong consideration... though the 1598 is surely worlds better than the stock 14x14, and turns similar revs. The pre-87 hulls seem to run a bit faster and can spin the 1598 closer to the 4400-4600 range if theyre in a good state of tune. I think youre going to like that 540... it really turns a stock 351w 2001 into a very competent performer. The only thing you'll miss is 1-2mph for one-foot stuff (you'll see about 41mph with a footer). Heads/cam/intake is the solution for that, though. ------------- |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 12:48pm
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91 yes reduction and we carry a larger shaft ------------- Brian |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 1:47pm
I luv it! The 53 is a bit lower now though after sorting the lifters. I'm turning about 4900 now and need to do some tuning, but the combo is great. I put the 781(049 Tim ) heads on with domed pistons bringing the compression up to just a hair over 10 to 1. I also added a slightly warmer cam than came stock along with the HEI DUI.In short, it has a mean kick and gets to WOT in a hurry. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 3:28pm
| Yeah Tim. I retract my 430 statement about the v dive boat. Ill have to ask mark what number it is. The prop has one of those bullet nuts over it so I cant see the digits. The 91 was in the bucket head this year to though she looks pretty rough. |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: August-29-2012 at 1:45am
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Man great feedback. I love the idea of redoing the top end! My Muscle car experience with Big Block High Horse power motors is one of the reasons I bought this boat. Plus the quality of the boat, wake and how it drives/rides through chop. The reason I wanted to do a re-fresh only is once I start down the road or performance improvements I would not keep the cost down. Not sure I am ready to go that deep into the motor this year. I still need to do Gel coat work, decals and interior. I did find some 781 heads on Craigs List for $ 200.00. I cosider these core so another $ 500.00 would make them ready to bolt on. May do this to let the thing flow and breath. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: August-29-2012 at 1:52am
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Tim...The prop on the boat is the factory 14 RH 14 Federal. Ryan and I are skiing tomorrow night. I have my Meter/Tach in my ski bag:) Will get the actual RPMs. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: August-29-2012 at 2:48am
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A local shop suggested trying the 540 on Tom's BFN. Thoughts? ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-29-2012 at 9:16am
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If you've got a 540 to try, go for it. If you would have to buy it, I'd pass... It will turn way too many revs (5000+). Great holeshot though. ------------- |