Bedding epoxy (peanut butter)
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28859
Printed Date: May-06-2024 at 7:34pm
Topic: Bedding epoxy (peanut butter)
Posted By: forvicjr
Subject: Bedding epoxy (peanut butter)
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 8:37pm
| Is there a product out there that would be used to bed my stringers that would work that's a premix? Something maybe that would be packaged in a caulking tube? |
Replies:
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 8:50pm
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West Systems makes something, but like all their stuff, its pricey. Trying to avoid mixing your own? Its pretty easy to do- just pick your high strength filler, add it to the epoxy (already mixed) and once the consistency is where you want it, dump it in a ziploc bag and cut the corner off. Use it like a pastry bag. (I cant remember who here recommended the ziploc idea but it works great.) ------------- |
Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 9:00pm
| Yeah, I almost rather just buy it. More a speed issue than money. Spring is closing in on me. What west product you refering to? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 9:07pm
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No idea, Ive never used it... just remember hearing about it. ------------- |
Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 9:13pm
| Another reason is Im not really good at epoxy management if you know what I mean. Lol |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 9:17pm
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Vic, I totally agree with Tim. Get some fillers and mix your own. It does not take that much time plus it's very economical. Read up on the fillers. Different ones are used for high strength (difficult to sand) all the way down to a fairing filler (easy to sand). ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 9:43pm
| Pete, I ordered a one gallon pail of talc for a filler. I'm just not good at epoxy management and its hard for me to get to know the pot life of what I'm mixing due to the hot cold weather swings here. I also am not sure of talk being a good filler for what I'm using it for. I thought I would just use it on the transom wood replacement and buy premix for the main stringers. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 9:59pm
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Vic, Sorry but the talc would be my last choice for a filler. http://www.uscomposites.com/fillers.html" rel="nofollow - Read up on some of the filler descriptions. For bedding the Stringers, go with Aerosil-Cabosil. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 10:20pm
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I prefer cabosil or microballons to thicken the epoxy and then I add some chopped fibers to give it a little more strength. Careful with the fillers as they are so fine that you'll likely breath them in. I then mix it all together with a paint stir stick. Add 2-3 heaping teaspoons of filler to the epoxy, mix, more filler, add chopped fibers, more filler, more filler, and maybe after 15+ teaspoons of filler and 3-4 teaspoons of fibers, I'll have a mixture that just barely falls off the stir stick. I mix my uscomposite resin with a $10 digital scale from walmart and it works out almost perfectly every time when I get to the end of the bottles. For the record, I can't use the pumps as guides. It's WAY too much resin for me to use in time unless it's 2:1 epoxy which will never cure in this weather. ------------- |
Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 10:24pm
| My mix is coming up right. Its the weather thats messing with me. So far the most ive mixed at one time was ten ounces of reisin with hardener added. Pot life was short real short. I found this while re bedding the pylon cup. How much resin was mixed for your recipe of filler? |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: January-30-2013 at 12:29am
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My biggest batch of 4:1 resin is usually 500 grams which is 17.7oz (it's easier to be precise with grams). 400 resin and 100 harder and that's basically what I described above. If the temperature is in the mid 50's, I can get it all mixed and down before it starts setting up but just barely. I'm typically fairing out the last little bit with my fingers when it's starting to set up. On a side note, after about 15-20 minutes, the mixture is quite warm to pull out of the cup so that's definitely pushing the limits. I just mixed a batch less than an hour ago of 300g resin and 75 hardener. At the current temp of 70 degrees, I had maybe 15-20 minutes total to work with it. I've learned when the batch starts getting warm or starts getting a little stiffer than normal that I need to hurry up. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-30-2013 at 8:10am
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Vic, When you do a basic layup with just plain resin, one trick to keep the pot life at a reasonable time is to put the resin in a roller tray. This spreads the resin out so it's not confined in a small cup. It won't heat up and kick as quick. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: January-30-2013 at 9:33am
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You will find some people are now using PU glue (Low Rise type in a tube, not Gorilla glue foams up to much ) to set their stringers before glassing in with epoxy.......it seems the jury is out on this as it may not protect against moisture ingress or be as strong as epoxy....the original stringers were set using foam in dabs along the stringers and then glassed. My guess is its key to CPES stringers all over a couple of times light sand before you fit trying to keep gaps as small as possible, also coat the hull along the stringer line with CPES or epoxy and lightly sand then set with PU. Untested myself but may try on my next build. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-30-2013 at 11:26am
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I used my c.p.e.s I bought from jamestown dist yesterday . Man does that stuff disappear fast ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: February-01-2013 at 11:15pm
I just realized I gave wrong information here. I realized my scale was on pounds instead of grams. So 500 grams that I was claiming earlier was actually 0.500 lbs which almost half of what I originally said. Sorry about that... ------------- |
Waternut wrote:Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: February-01-2013 at 11:26pm
I kinda figured. I wasn't going to call you out on it. 500 grams is a lot different that 1/2 a pound lol.. ------------- “Tact is the ability to step on a man's toes without messing up the shine on his shoes.” ― Harry S. Truman |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: February-02-2013 at 8:10am
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I used a strip of mat that ran the stringer length and juiced that with thickened epoxy. That was all I needed because I spent a while on the fit. Prep, prep, prep. I haven't heard the word amine in a while; everyone got that part already I guess. Cab and milled fiber-strong balloons-for fairing talc-the chair in the room that never gets used but has to be there Even sawdust can be used. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: February-02-2013 at 12:18pm
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We repair the engine rubstrip in most of the fan cases of the engines ( the big fan part of the engine that you see that provides 75% of the thrust) and some internal oil seals using an epoxy/micro balloon mixture. The stuff is pretty tough and on the oil seals we actually machine it to the proper dimensions. ANYWAY......the mix ratio of balloons to resin we use is 23 to 100. Measure out the weights on your digital scale the add the balloons after you mix the resin. This ratio will give you a creamy peanut butter consistency provided the balloons are free from moisture. In a total moisture free state they should free flow like sugar out of a bag. If they're moisture laden then you'll have a mashed potato consistency. Mixing moisture laden balloons with epoxy will give you a chunky peanut butter consistency. Dry them out if you can if they have moisture in them. Hope this helps. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: February-02-2013 at 12:26pm
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Sorry for the hijack, Roger can you advise the best place to source CPES in the UK? I'm after some for my new floor and transom cover, it seems to be pretty expensive over here!! ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-02-2013 at 1:43pm
Graham I mix my own Tim and Billy put me on to it…CPES is a thinned epoxy, the ready made stuff may have a few other things in it to kill rot spores…but I have found the home mix works great had some on test for over a year now with no problems. I use Sicomin epoxy which can be thinned after the hardener has been mixed in using Xylene Methanol they recommend 1 part epoxy to .5 thinner but the tests I did found it needs to be 1 part to .75/.85 depending on air temp. Doing your own mix is about 1/3 cost of CPES here and you only mix what you need. Let me know if you need more info and I post some links on Monday as I'm on my tablet and a newbi on it so can't do much yet  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: February-02-2013 at 2:16pm
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Perfect! Yes please the more information the better. I actually formulate coatings as a job so have access to a whole range of epoxies and solvents, I thought about mixing my own up but without knowing the exact chemistry of the epoxy used in CPES didn't want to get it wrong. If you have the datasheets/specs of the resin you are using would be much appreciated if you can send me a copy.. Thanks ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: February-03-2013 at 10:40am
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To bed anything use mil fiber. Aerosil-Cabosil is OK but use mil fiber. We do use glass beads (solid beads) for bond line thickenss control Micro balloons and talc is for a fairing only. It's easist to sand. Measure out your epoxy in cups no more than 400 grams (I like 200 grams) but pour the catylist on top gently, then mix each cup as you use it. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-04-2013 at 12:31pm
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Graham,here are some links....one is the data sheets on the UK supplier of Sicomin epoxy site, I used SR 5550 wood epoxy to thin and also has info on different fillers too. Have also used SR 8200 on lamiating projects and is easy to use too. http://www.mcmc-uk.com/data-product-info-epoxy.html" rel="nofollow - Epoxy data sheets http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20585&PN=3&title=starflite-rebuild" rel="nofollow - Tests I ran using SR 5550 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: February-04-2013 at 12:39pm
Thanks waterdog. I read that the talc is a good anti itch for fiberglass, guess i can use it after all...LOL... Thanks for all the responses and the hyjack it is interesting to! ------------- “Tact is the ability to step on a man's toes without messing up the shine on his shoes.” ― Harry S. Truman |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: February-04-2013 at 8:05pm
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Thanks Roger, I shall get in touch with the distributor and try to get some info on price breaks. I'm wondering whether the SR5550 is any good for laminating as well, if so I would look at bulk buying ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-05-2013 at 4:53am
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Graham,you can laminate with SR5550 will give a great finish as its clear unlike the laminating one which has a tint to it,but your find it will cost more for SR5550 I buy the 43Kg kits which I found to be cheaper than West at the time, they have small kits as well. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |