Ford FE engine find
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32215
Printed Date: May-07-2024 at 6:17pm
Topic: Ford FE engine find
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Subject: Ford FE engine find
Date Posted: November-24-2013 at 12:44am
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In one of my last posts about engine options I was informed that my Cuda SS hull originally had a Ford FE engine. I immediately tapped all my resources and within two days I came across what what was described to me as a 390. I bought it sight unseen because $300 was a great deal in my mind. Especially since it came fully dressed, minus the distributor though. I have not been able to determine the rotation or confirm the actual displacement just yet. The engine was found at a reputable engine shop outside of Baltimore that builds all kinds of performance marine/muscle car engines. They had plans for it but the owner said he never got around to it. Upon getting it home I pulled the plugs and found water in two cylinders. I soaked every bolt in penetrating oil and filled the combustion chambers with penetrating oil as well. I found corrosion,loose rust scale and debris inside the intake manifold. I let everything soak until this morning when I had the time to tear it down. Pulled all the accessories off, the heads, intake and everything else I could do before dark. It took about 6 hours due to a a hand full of badly corroded bolts. My neighbor came over to help out and suggested using a concoction of 1:1 ATF and acetone. That stuff worked like a charm! Two of the cylinders had a lot of scaling and rust, where I found water. Tomorrow I'll try to get the rest of the block torn down and inspect the crank and cam. When removing the heads I noticed that one of the rods was cracked and had a significant dent. Enjoy the pics!        ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Replies:
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: November-24-2013 at 9:13pm
| How was that intake Heavy? Probably save 50lbs getting rid of that. Last time I removed one of those thought I forgot to remove a bolt.What was bent push rod or rocker shaft? Adjustable rockers? Check bore and stroke think 4.05x3.78? for 390. |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: November-24-2013 at 9:31pm
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Love the FE's. I have one (390)in my '68 F250. I was going to pull it and rebuild it for a winter project, but, decided to wait until next spring when the weather is warmer since I don't have a heated garage. It runs good, just need to freshen it up some. I look forward to following this thread to follow your rebuild. Post more pictures when you can. |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: November-24-2013 at 9:38pm
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Intake = heavy heavy heavy, anchor worthy no less. Came across a bent/cracked push rod, will post a pic. Rockers are not adjustable. I gave my hands a break today, had to catch up on work. More to come next weekend! ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: November-24-2013 at 9:55pm
I need to confirm all the info in the image below. The tops of the pistons are stock in appearance but have "040" stamped on them. Want to make sure this thing wasn't poked 40 over stock. From what I have read the 352, 390 and 427 all share the same block and heads.  ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: November-24-2013 at 10:18pm
| That is why it is important to check bore and stroke now. They used the same block for many applications.If it measures 4.090 now it's a .040 over 390 and there are limits to bore size.Lots of info on FE forum for max overbore limit that may have to be sonic tested to see if its even usable.Very important to know what it started at.Not trying to scare you but with these blocks you have to know what it starting at to figure out what you can do with it. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-24-2013 at 10:23pm
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I believe for the most part that the marine engines, whether 352, 360, 390 or 427 used 352 heads. There may have been some variations of higher performance engines that used different higher compression heads, but most were low compression 352 heads. I've heard those cast iron intakes weigh 85 lbs. It looks like you have most of the parts there. If you know that a RR dizy looks like this, can you figure out the rotation by looking at the cam?  Edit, sorry that's an ebay picture. I'll email you the link. |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: November-24-2013 at 10:52pm
| Think I read that's the one thing he didn't have.I had a Mallory rh dist with mech tac drive somewhere going to have to look through boxes in back of shed.Know it was 65-66 vintage |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: November-29-2013 at 8:56pm
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Spent some more time today removing misc items and getting ready to remove the pistons. Letting bolts soak for a week with the ATF/Acetone mix really made a difference, it smells awful though. Once its on your skin it doesn't come out. The timing gears and chain look darn near new. All the internals are in surprisingly good shape. The rust on the crank brushes right off and the block looks freshly cleaned on the inside. I really can't make out what happened to this engine. Further inspection of the crank, cam and pistons will tell. It has been bored 40 over though, I measured the cleanest cylinder. My engine cradle came in so I bolted that up to support the block as I tinkered with it. I spoke with an engine builder locally and he is going clean up the block and sonic check the cylinder walls and tell me just what I've got to work with. It's going to cost $170 for the service to figure out what the acutal condition is, not bad really. I'm almost considering sourcing a bare block just in case.     ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-29-2013 at 11:45pm
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You can see how strong those engines lower ends are with that crank sitting so deep up into it ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: November-30-2013 at 2:25pm
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Is the cylinder wall between cylinders even narrower than on a 351 small block? I know the .040 over adds a bit of bore but not that much to the eye. I thought a 390 would have more beef there. Fun project, keep the pictures coming! ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: November-30-2013 at 10:55pm
I was able to remove the crank shaft sleeve, timing set, cam gear, cam shaft and lifters. Attempted to knock out a piston but the bottom end was less than cooperative. I should have picked up a crank indexing tool... After wiping off all the penetrating oil mixed with surface rust, I found all the parts to be absolutely spotless. My pictures show the parts before I wiped them off. All the penetrating oil has been a grimy mess to deal with. It's gonna take an entire day to clean off all my tools, haha. The tops of the lifters were rusty and stuck. Once I got em out I wiped them clean and didn't find a significant damage or pitting. The timing gears, chain, lifters and connecting rods, pistons and most everything looks to have been brand new. That's great but it doesn't explain why the engine is locked up. I suspect the engine was starved of oil and seized up. It didn't run very long before this happened based on how clean everything is. Combine that line of thinking with the cracked push rod and maybe something else happened. All in all there was no evidence of water in the bottom end, just powdery surface rust that brushes off. The oil pan was clean. I'm going to let a machine shop deal with the rest...      ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-01-2013 at 11:27pm
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Hi Cuda Judging by the cut of the cam gear you have a normal left hand rotation engine. Same rotation as a car engine, opposite of the typical Correct Craft engine from back then Ken O |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: December-02-2013 at 12:45pm
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Thx Ken - I just figured that out over the weekend. Talking to somone now that has a right hand rotation cam for this engine. Still looking for a distributor though. ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: December-02-2013 at 1:23pm
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It will be pretty sweet if you can bring that old hulk back into service. ------------- |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-02-2013 at 3:00pm
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Hi again I think you'll also have to worry about the crankshaft. It'll rotate backwards just fine but I think you have wick lines on it right in front of the rear main seal area that are for normal rotation and if you don't do something about that you'll have a leak at the seal when it's running backwards. The auto machine shop should be able to deal with this. I THINK are the key words here. The shop should be able to verify this. Ken O |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: December-02-2013 at 6:41pm
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Just when you thought you were set, haha. I will have to check out the grooves on my crank. One more item on the list... ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-02-2013 at 9:03pm
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I'm running a lefty crank right in my Ford. My engine shop installed a speedi sleeve, no trouble since ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-02-2013 at 10:39pm
| Sounds like a good solution to me |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-04-2013 at 12:55pm
If your block is found to be toast...and you can streach the budget, new 427 side oiler http://www.genesis427.com/Blocks1.htm" rel="nofollow - Blocks would be a cool build  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: December-04-2013 at 11:20pm
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A 427 block would be cool. Not ruling it out but it's not likely unless I trip over one. I've been calling every salvage yard in my area and have sourced a few stock 390 blocks and even a 428 CJ. I'm going to take my block to the shop after Christmas when I have some time off work. If the block is toast I'll be pulling the trigger on something. Either way I'm going to spend about two hundred dollars to have anything I find sonic checked hot tanked. Hopefully my block is salvageable. ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-05-2013 at 9:57am
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How expensive are the 390 blocks youve found? If theyre cheap enough, it might be worth grabbing one if it comes with some sort of guarantee that its not cracked, esp if it has minimal over bore. Doesnt seem like a good idea to spend any money on the block you have- best case its not cracked, but it still has a LH crank in it, and is already .040 over. Have you started researching what it takes to get some decent power out of a FE? I assume you'll be warming it up a bit since a full rebuild is planned? |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-05-2013 at 10:33am
Gary, how did they get the speedy sleeve on the crank? Isn't there a flange on it? |
Gary S wrote:Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: December-05-2013 at 10:49am
I have found bare blocks in my area for $150 - $400. I still need to spend money for the shop to get the bottom end componants out of the block to see what is salvageable. I don't want to damage any of the threads on the con rods, scar crank or break something. The pistons and con rods look brand new underneath. The shop might be able to save and clean up evertyhting. I have honestly just focussed on getting the final pieces of my engine together - RH distributor, cam and maybe even a RH crank if I can find it. Also looking for the right kind of exhaust elbows that Bruce has on his engines. Also looking for the tranny mounts Ford used on the velvet drive. The other option I am considering is keeping the engine a closed cooling system due to the nature of my environment. Salt water can destroy an engine that is not maintained properly. BUT, I have always flushed my engines with fresh water and used a "salt terminator" like product after every outing and have never had any long term issues. I know plenty of people in the wooden boat space and they run raw water cooled engines here all day long. With the right care they will do just fine. I want to put a nice aluminum intake on my engine to "warm it up" a bit and ditch the 80+ lb stock manifold I currently have. Not sure though, I'm in parts finding mode right now. If anyone finds something let me know! Cheers ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-05-2013 at 11:21am
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I'd plan on new pistons at a minimum- that will allow you to tune your compression ratio if youre after some extra hp. The ones you have being .040 over and stuck are another good reason to not re-use them... they may be junk anyways. By all means, salvage the connecting rods and crank though... but finding a RH crank sure would make your life easier. I believe that Gary is running a smooth speedi-sleeve with a rope seal (essentially bi-directional), which apparently works just fine- but it wont have the same positive oil control as a RH crank with the wick lines. I'd weigh the costs of magnafluxing your current block vs. sourcing a new one- like oldcuda said, your block may already be at its limit at .040 over. I didnt see whether you had confirmed the block's displacement anywhere... have you done that yet? Bore and connecting rod length will get you there if you cant easily measure the stroke. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-05-2013 at 11:24am
The flange on the small blocks Bruce is on the inside so the sleeve fits right on, I never have seen a big block crank so I don't know if they are the same ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: December-05-2013 at 11:36am
Yeah, pistons are most likely junk. Small cost when you look at the overall project. I haven't measured the cylinders or the stroke which is silly because I should have. Kind of moved on to finding misc parts and making a list of things I need. This weekend... ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-05-2013 at 2:05pm
A simple test you can do yourself and cost almost no $$$ on 352/390 blocks is take out all the core plugs and see if the maximum drill shank between two cylinder walls in the waterways is 15/64 if so its a good block to take out +60 if you have more it has core shift when cast look for another  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: December-05-2013 at 2:43pm
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I have heard of this test but my concerns are primarily with any uneveness of the cylinder walls themselves that I can not get to. Couple that with pitting and built up scale inside the combustion chamber and who knows. I'd rather spend a little money to know what the block will take before diving in an finding out something has been compromised in the process of boring. I'll still owe them money if the block cracks while boring. Spend it up front or in end. I'll try this method in the garage this weekend - Thanks! ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: December-20-2013 at 2:46pm
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I confirmed the over bore. Cylinder dia. measures 4.090. I'm not going to spend any money trying to save the block. New mission - find a donor block. The cam looks to be in good shape as well as the crank - for sale or scrap shortly. Going to remove the rotating assembly this weekend any way I can. Have a line on two "special" blocks. Waiting for photo confirmation of the block and casting numbers. Parts Parts Parts! ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: December-22-2013 at 9:36pm
I picked up two original FE blocks today as cores for my project. Both are in good shape, need to decode the casting numbers. The block I plan to start with has stock FoMoCo 390 pistons but 360 con rods, strange... It also has castings for cross bolted mains, cool! This block has a date code that matches my intake and heads which is a plus. The other is dated 1965 with casting numbers that imply something different than what the pistons and con rods suggest which are all stock parts, but not necessarily original. Need to fully research these both. Both blocks were covered in greas by the previous owner to prevent corrosion. Also got some other odds & ends that I needed. My plan was to drop off all my parts at the machine shop tomorrow for cleaning and sonic checking but I need to be at work to handle some unplanned biz... I've got to catalog all this stuff and resell some. Or take to the scrap yard for beer money  ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: January-06-2014 at 11:30am
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Quick update - I sold my old Chrysler 318 to a guy from RI this weekend. Had to get it all ready for pickup, remove the velvet drive and box up the misc parts I had in the basement. I noticed something and wanted to run it by the community. The Chrysler engine I just sold spun clockwise if you were looking at the front of the engine, towards the stern. So that would mean if you are looking dead at the transom, or at the back of the engine, it would be turning counter-clockwise making it a LH engine. I cleaned up my velvet drive and it is a AS1-71C. If I am not mistaken, this transmission should be RH because it is not a 71CR... I have read that the 71C can be made to work either way by reclocking the pump. What should the pump orientation look like if correctly oreineted for RH operation? That brings me to the next question. Since I never really went through my old hull in terms of its setup I can't be sure how the previous owner had it rigged. Don't know if the forward setting was acutally reverse. The entire boat was cobbled together. Anyway, I am mapping out my engine build and need to sort out the velvet drive. I've got just about eveything I need to do the bottom end except pistons. RH crank - check, RH distributor - check, RH cam - check. With all the parts I have picked up to make one good engine Iv'e found my self with multiple sets of connecting rods, stock pistons, two stock 390 cranks, two stok 390 cams and a buck of other stuff. Need to sell it all off and keep what I need. ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: January-06-2014 at 1:32pm
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No way it ran in reverse prior, since the reverse planetary does a gear reduction, it would have been very apparent something was very amiss. For a RH engine, the pump cover needs to be reset to its opposite index, should be some diagrams in the BW manual in the reference section. There are some csting marks on the pump cover to ID its location. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-06-2014 at 1:47pm
The lever in foward on a BW is always foward no matter the engine rotation or pump rotation. I think a BW's input always matches output unlike a PCM used in a Correct Craft which reverses the output in relation to the engine rotation. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 11:59am
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Since my last post I have been going through all of my parts and mapping out the build. This endeavor has proven to be a lengthy one, but fun no less. I have a block that will serve as my starting point and it is all set to go to the shop for cleaning and sonic testing. I disassembled the heads over the weekend and found at least 6 valves completely stuck, no movement. Had to carefully hammer them out. Knowing the heads will require a complete rebuild I wasn't terribly concerned. After getting everything completely apart I was able to fully inspect the valve seats and intake/exhaust chambers, lots of work ahead of me… I'll be doing new valve seats, valve guides and removing a few rusty broken bolts amongst other things. The heads and intake manifold go together and I'd rather not source another set of heads unless mine are found to be cracked. Trying to maintain consistent date codes. As far as the bottom end is concerned, I picked up a set of factory forged Lemans rods. They have been bead blasted and magged. I have all the bottom end parts except pistons. Could someone let me know what they have run in the past? I have read many things about standard cast, hypereutectic and forged products. Not sure what is the best for marine applications of this nature. Factory 390 rods next to the 427 Lemans rods.    More to come soon! ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 12:03pm
| Chris, are you going to build the engine? Are you the proud owner of those Interceptor logs that sold on ebay last week? |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 12:16pm
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No - I contacted the guy a few times but couldn't stomach the $700 for used parts, especially aluminum. He said they were fresh water only; my loss is someone else’s gain... They were nice and I wanted them. The older style cast iron log manifolds and elbows are still available, they are better suited for my environment and cost same amount. I have been talking to two local shops about building my engine. I’d consider doing it myself but given the rarity of these parts I’m not going to risk it, money well spent. ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 12:50pm
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What I've read about FE engine rebuilds, especially when you are exchanging parts, is that you need someone that has rebuilt a lot of FEs. I couldn't believe someone jumped on those manifolds for $700. I saw your name in one of the questions and wondered if you were the proud owner. |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 12:53pm
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[QUOTE=Cuda Chris] I have all the bottom end parts except pistons. Could someone let me know what they have run in the past? I have read many things about standard cast, hypereutectic and forged products. Not sure what is the best for marine applications of this nature. QUOTE] Chris, Personally, I wouldn't run anything but forged in a marine application. The constant load that a marine engine is under is what forged pistons were designed for. For my stroker build the entire rotating assembly is forged. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 4:37pm
I have heard the same. The two shops I am talking to have done extensive FE work. The shop I prefer is 2.5 hours away from me and has a waiting list. A guy I work with used to run 427 powered dirt/circle track cars in the 70's and he made the recommendations. We'll see though. There is an old guy near me that only works on fords but he's retired and works when he feels like working. Plus, you have to be introduced for project consideration. I'm no rush... ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 4:46pm
Hmmm,,, food for thought. What brand pistons would you recommend? ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 5:40pm
| You won't break those Lemans rods good stout units.I used JE pistons in mine 2618 forged bout as tough as you're gonna get.Did you have any luck with cam? I was helping someone with a top end oiling issue on FE and stumbled onto a post on another forum about RR FE cams.Gary at marinr parts and sales Harrison township Mi may have info.On the road didn't bring paper I. jottet down on. |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 6:46pm
Guess it really depends on what you're planning to do with it. Stock sized pistons or overbore? What compression ratio are you looking to achieve? The size of the heads, size of the gaskets, rod length, deck height and shape of the pistons will all affect the static compression ratio so you need to plan accordingly. Just about any good quality piston will work depending on your application. JE, Ross or Mahle immediately come to mind. Here's a good example of planning accordingly: I used Mahle. They came as part of a kit from Eagle. They were specifically matched to a stroker crank with longer than stock 6" H-Beam rods. The Mahle's are a good piston but they have a short skirt and are lighter weight compared to standard pistons. The only drawback is that they have very specific rings you have to use and the piston pin keeper assemblies are difficult to ensure they are seated right. I specifically wanted to have the rotating assembly internally balanced instead of the normal external balance on a 383 (without going through a very expensive process of drilling out and adding weight to the crank). That particular kit was one of the very few I found that had parts as stout as I wanted and specifically said it could be internally balanced. After it was all said and done, my machinist said he would have never been able to internally balance the rotating assembly with any other piston...period. So depending on what you want to do can determine what piston you can use. You have to do your homework first. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 8:24pm
| Yes Mahle is good and lighter but the 4032 high silicone is not as tough as the 2618.Chances are both would do good in this application and I considered them myself for the same reason easier balance But in a higher rpm if motor goes lean the 2618 is more apt to survive. Plus you can ru a tighter piston to wall with the 4032.Detonation won't kill the 2618 as fast. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 8:43pm
Chris, Tell me more about the sonic testing. I've never heard of the procedure but maybe that's because I'm "old fashioned"!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 8:46pm
| People put the factory lemans rod through much more than he ever will.Using a factory crank with a lighter forged piston balance should not be a big issue |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 11:24pm
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I cribbed this description of sonic testing, used to determine material thickness and integrity... "The mode of operation of a sonic tester is easy to understand. Essentially it comprises a sending/receiving probe and a box of electronics to analyze a signal return time. When sound encounters a sudden change of material density in its path, it is reflected. If the speed of sound through the material/medium is known, then the distance to that change in density can be accurately determined by measuring the time it takes for the sound to return to its source. Given the right calibration, it is possible to measure the thickness of a section of cast iron or aluminum to less than five-thousandths accuracy" ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 11:25pm
| What kind of hp are you shooting for? |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 11:38pm
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Doing my homework is absolutely the truth. I have a RH cam, RH crank, rods and just need pistons. I need an assembly that is going to work together so I am choosing my parts carefully. Ive got this strange vision of using factory ford performance parts or what someone could have put their hands on when the boat was running around. Determining deck height, compression and gaskets will be the next step. Ive got to get the heads and block done which will help determine the aforementioned variables. Removing metal from the block and or heads as a corrective measure (if needed) will change things ever so slightly. Also, reading about high tensile strength forged pistons brings up even more about metallurgy, thermal expansion characteristics and other things I am not 100 percent up to speed on when it comes to engine dynamics. Considering whats best for sustained rpms and engine load characteristics are all things that are running through my mind. I might be over thinking some of this but the research is fun. Plus I like hearing from people on tried and true options. ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: February-18-2014 at 11:53pm
Hahaha, good question. What ever the engine will do I guess, no goal in mind. At the end of the day the valve cover stickers will still say 285hp Interceptor. I want to build reliability and room for future improvements. Not crazy about a serious over bore but I'd consider it. I'm measuring potential gain to dollars I'll need to spend. The block I am starting with is a stock 390, so it depends on what I can safely and reliably get out of it. ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: February-19-2014 at 12:37am
| Yep first step is block to get solid squared deck hight.Then1/2 stroke +rod length to determine compression height for piston .Then figure gasket thickness for proper quench to minimize detonation piston rock.Summit Racing has easy combustion calculator to match cylinder head volume,bore,stroke all just where you need it . |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: February-19-2014 at 1:22am
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Many thanks! ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-19-2014 at 11:42am
You might want to put some long hard thought about hp/performance goals before you go too much further. If you decide that you dont value greater performance over pure originality (date code matched heads being one example) thats fine. Just be aware that there are most likely significant gains to be made in areas that you will not want to spend money on twice. Since youre going through the entire engine from top to bottom, now would be the time to make some big decisions before you spend a lot of time and $ acquiring parts or paying for machining and install costs. Of course, the stock 285hp will push that Cuda along pretty well! |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-19-2014 at 12:01pm
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250 hp would be the proper decals for that boat. Dave hates it when people ask what the engine is in our Cuda and I tell them it's a 352. ReidP would be a good one to talk to as he has a rebuilt 390 in his Classic that's had some mods. It is a beautiful engine. It has high compression and different heads, compared to most stock marine FEs which are low compression and have 352 heads. 
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Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: February-19-2014 at 3:30pm
Thats right, the engine that was in this hull originally was a 250hp 352. You have been very helpfull providing me with the original specs. Since this is a repower, the engine going back in is going to be a mostly spec 285hp 390. With that said, I'll be doing a lot of little things to gain powere here and there but nothing significant. ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: February-19-2014 at 3:39pm
I'll putting it back together stock for the most part except a few things will be cleaned up and improved upon but you are right, there are considerations to be made. Im definitely going to port and polish the heads. Possibly larger valves, port-match the intake to the heads and exhaust to the manifolds. Little things... There are mods that can be done to the oiling system for better circulation. Hands down, 285hp will move that boat. Every part of this engine is getting touched so I plan on doing my best to have it thoroughly gone through. Once I'm there I'll post the specs. ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Retro Scott
Date Posted: March-02-2014 at 12:09pm
Sounds like a great project. The velvet drive without a gear reduction is good for 310 HP, so your right in there. Also, to reverse the rotation, remove the 4 bolts on the front pump cover and rotate it 180 degrees. it can only be bolted in two ways, so don't worry about messing it up. 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-02-2014 at 3:01pm
Scott, Welcome to CCfan. Tell us more. Are you a boat owner? Regarding the trans pump rotation reversal, I don't feel it's 180 degrees. Check it out. In our reference section, there's a great manual on Velvet drives with pictures. The rotation reversal is simply reversing the porting to the pump. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Retro Scott
Date Posted: March-02-2014 at 7:23pm
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Thank you for the welcome. I am an owner. At present I have a '67 25' Pacemaker Express Cruiser that had a single Chevy 350 inboard. It's a project that I'm just getting going on. The boat was free, so you can just imagine! The motor is junk, sat with water in 5 cylinders, heads and intake, for two winters. Just a block of rust. The velvet drive tranny in on my bench right now. I'm learning about it and will try to save it. Like I said, it really is almost 180 Degrees that you turn the pump, maybe a little less. It can only be bolted on two ways and their are a arrows on the outside that indicate rotation direction. I have owned several boats since I was a kid. A 8' racer, a 12' 3-point hydroplane, 14' plywood utility, 16' White lap strake outboard, a 16' flat bottom work skiff for clamming, a '64 14 MFG Niagara, a 6 meter Century Riviera, a '67 CC Mustang and my Pace. I like boats!! 
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Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 11:11am
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Welcome Scott! The engine build is currently on hold until I can put some money back in my parts bank and get a good set of pistons, bearings, rings, valves, springs, etc. All the small bits. Just got back from a vacation to Ft Lauderdale and Miami so no money for boat parts at the moment, hahaha. Cheers ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Cuda Chris
Date Posted: September-09-2014 at 11:15pm
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Just wanted to check in. Been a while since I posted anything on my engine build thread. The long journey of sourcing Eaton FE parts has finally materialized. Its taken almost two years to get to this point. A few goodies arrived this evening and I am really excited to have them. Picked up another set of pent roof valve covers, the correct carburetor, an oil pickup, correct timing cover, raw water pump and bracket, recirculating pump, correct alternator, oil cooling hose block or whatever you call it and a correct thermostat housing. My year + long search has yielded enough parts to build two engines, one 352 and one 390. I have also acquired all the deck hardware, correct gauges, switches, and tiny bits to put my bare Cuda SS hull back together. Its time to take a break and put money back in the boat fund though. These engine parts are hard to find and I have driven all over the east cost, from northern PA to the lower Carolina and as far west as Michigan just to get parts. Don't get me started shipping and travel expenses!It's all worth though. All period correct parts. I'm exhausted! Ive got a stock bore 352 block as well as a cross bolted 390/410 block. I have three RH mallory distributors, two correct oil pans, engine mounts, three raw water pumps with brackets, two correct timing covers and two complete fresh water cooling systems with all the plumbing including two eaton heat exchangers. I only have one heat exchanger carrier though. I'm sure another will turn up. Quite a bit of time and money went into this and I'm its done. I also have all the tiny bits such as correct oil filter reservoirs brackets and hose clamps. Just need a few more things that are fairly common to find. Need a bell housing and a set of 427 heads. Already have a line on those items as well as one more set of RH internals. Just gotta come up with the cash... These are the latest parts. I'm going to have another thermostat housing cast from this piece as a spare.    Enjoy! ------------- 1968 Barracuda Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-10-2014 at 1:19am
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You've come a long way Chris,can't wait to see the end result ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: September-10-2014 at 2:40am
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Yes, please keep us posted once you start putting the pieces/parts together. That's a labor of love going to those lengths to pick up all the needed pieces to the puzzle. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |