might not make river run
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32926
Printed Date: April-28-2024 at 9:53pm
Topic: might not make river run
Posted By: lakedog55
Subject: might not make river run
Date Posted: February-26-2014 at 6:55pm
did not expect this. boat was running pretty good, changed props and saw a drop off in performance, might not be prop. and ever now and then a slight valve noise ------------- Lakedog55 |
Replies:
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: February-26-2014 at 7:44pm
| You're in Fl, of course you'll make it you might have your boat with you though. |
Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: February-26-2014 at 11:14pm
DITTO! From Lake Weir, you could walk!! ------------- Js |
TX Foilhead wrote:Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: February-26-2014 at 11:16pm
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And, if you drag the boat, I will bet you would get a free and accurate diagnosis!! ------------- Js |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 12:27am
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Yeah it ain't far. Could drag the float boat over. But it ain't the same. not sure but I would say that cylinder is done. Already 20 over . Be real lucky if it could be squared or rounded back up and then be running 40 overs? What's the old saying boat ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 4:45am
| Is the cylinder rusted? Hard to tell in the picture. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 9:41am
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Rust came after. The missing portion of the piston is what really troubles me. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 12:02pm
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Changing a prop will do that to you every now and then. In particular if you put on a steeper prop, just conjecture mind you as to the actual cause. Cruddy gas will do the same, but it happens with the prop as well. More load with the same timing advance can cause detonation, which heats and beats the piston, first cracking, then eventually losing the piece… hopefully through the valve and out he exhaust manifold fairly easily. My last piston chunk actually left cylinder one, did a bit of damage there but made it through the exhaust manifold to cylinder 4 where it did its real damage. If I were you I would expect to pop in a whole new set of pistons, cause if one saw enough abuse to let go the others are likely showing signs of being too hot for too long as well. The question is did you also bend a rod or more due to the chunk of metal being where only air/fuel mixture should be. Plenty of time between now and the sjrr if you had all the pieces ready by then we can put that thing back together at the boat show and be skiing by the second day. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 12:03pm
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That sucks Mike. Looks like the broken jug has a half moon divit in it like a valve head but the pic is small and might be deceiving. It doesn't look like it ran lean. More like something broke. You figure out what yet? ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 12:37pm
Eddie, I could be wrong but I think that crescent is the factory valve relief in the piston. The carbon buildup is not a good indication that it didn’t run lean or see detonation, what would be pretty telling typically is discoloration or oil gumming on the bottom side of the pistons. Anything amiss on the bottom side in my experience would indicate that they are pretty much all junk. One of my rebuilds was the result of thinking I could reuse pistons that had seen some heat after replacing only the one with an issue. I did get almost another season out of them… before saving the 550 on a new set cost me 2400 bucks in replacement pistons, rods, head welding, valve replacement, balancing, etc etc… ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 1:49pm
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Don't see any damage. Going to try and get a hold of machine shop and go ahead with the bottom end d If the cylinder is not to egged. A little worried with already being 20 over. Joe thanks for the hand. I have all the top end stuff. Really thought the bottom was great. It was supposed to have 300 hrs on it. The timing chain says different more like 2000. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 1:55pm
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You can bust up a piston pretty quick by being a little aggressive on the tuning, the piston material is softer than the wall so scoring is not usually an issue with this type of failure unless you get a piece of ring jammed in the wrong way. Last time I had mine cleaned up by .005 just to give a fresh hone while it was apart as it was already 30 over. I would start tearing it apart - demo is the easy part and it will tell you what parts you might want to consider sourcing sooner than later. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 7:18pm
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Got the block all stripped. Going to have cylinder tested. If all goes well I will get it bored decked, and fluxes. New bearings, pistons, and crank for like 650. No cam or timing set. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 7:27pm
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A larger picture of the piston would help diagnose possible cause. Is there signs of erosion or pitting on that piston crown? Have a good look at the the old piston's skirt area for any signs of scuffing and the associated heat buildup. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-27-2014 at 7:48pm
| Be sure to put a new timing set in that thing when it comes time to reassemble. $40 for a quality double roller is money well spent. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-28-2014 at 2:48pm
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That piston shows classic detonation failure. If you had that kind of detonation it was pounding pretty hard in the cylinder. The piston was the first fuse to fail, the head gasket would have been next. Marine head gaskets are pretty tough. The cause could be 1. over advanced timing for the fuel grade. 2. Lean burn in that one cylinder, normally caused by a intake leak. 3. The Ford is susceptible to mis fire from plug wires cross firing. Use quality plug wires and route them carefully to avoid this. Detonation is when your fuel charge is fired off early, the piston is moving up the cylinder and the early explosion of the fuel charge tries to blow that piston back down while 7 other pistons are trying to push it up. Normal cylinder pressure at wide open throttle might hit 600 PSI in this stock engine, with detonation going on the cylinder pressure will jump to 3,500 to 5,500 PSI and the weak link will break. In this case your piston fractured. Your other 7 pistons may be perfect depending on the cause of your detonation. Over advanced timing will heat the cylinder beyond normal and hot spots will start glowing red, these hot spots will start acting like a spark plug and ignite your fuel charge early, sometimes this happens just before the spark plug ignites, in this case once the spark plug ignites it sets off a second explosion, if these two flame fronts collide it forms a spinning flame front that will burn smooth holes right through the piston and sometimes right between cylinders in the block. A lean burn will do the same thing, lean fuel charge burns much hotter than a rich fuel charge and the same parts heat up till you start getting detonation from hot spots igniting the fuel. Lean burn could be unique to one cylinder or common to all cylinders. Look at the underside of the pistons once removed from the block, if oil is burned black to the bottom of the piston head they have been very hot, if it is gold in color they were hot but not for very long. Cross fire of spark plugs should show in the plug wires, look for small halo shaped white circles on the plug wires where they touch in your routing. If you see halo's you had mis fires. Keep us posted on what you determine. Good Luck |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: February-28-2014 at 10:20pm
Thanks guys, on a good note heads are done. CC came out pretty good. Ended up between 57.4 and 57.6 .now for to stir it up. I am blaming it on ethanol.  ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: February-28-2014 at 10:52pm
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OK, need to get up to speed on who's doing what here, I'm guessing this are some GT40p's and they might have been milled down just a bit. Did this happen while you were running it? I'm really curious to find out if it knocked enough to do that why it was noticeable. I know things can go sideways quick at WOT, but most people don't see that in tow boats that often. I would guess the majority of the time is spent between 2500 and 3500 RPM's and I would think that would make a noticeable sound for a while before it got to that point. Working on a project to be unveiled shortly so the cause of this is very intresting. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: February-28-2014 at 11:52pm
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Actually I was running stock. Never heard any noise of any kind. Started to notice a little valve tap and changed props. Drop off in performance and a slight rough idle. Other than that ran decent. Few times I footed had a speed problem but I blamed that on driver. I guess I owe my wife an apology. now that the heads are done I have read that the stock springs on the gt40p head suck. So I am worried about that. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-28-2014 at 11:56pm
| When approaching or exceeding the .500 lift range, a spring upgrade warrants strong consideration. If you're going with the standard Cam Research .460 grind, I wouldn't stress too much with the stock springs. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-01-2014 at 12:31am
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Benj, thanks I was starting to pace around the house. I am for real. I can go to bed now. no takers on the ethanol debate. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-01-2014 at 12:35am
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With .40 pistons what will that do to performance? Bigger sometimes does not make it better. Seems like it will need a bigger shot of fuel. To get the same explosion pressure. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-01-2014 at 12:36am
| Ethanol wouldn't have been a factor. E10 is all we've been able to get here in the northeast for quite some time. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-01-2014 at 12:51am
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Shoot it doesn't hardly ever see ethanol gas anyway. Little store by lake put in a new pump and carries ethanol free. Just trying to rattle up Some of the frozen bones up north ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-01-2014 at 1:28am
|
Octane is octane, what chemicals they use to hit the number doesn't matter. Adding ethanol does tend to make that number drop quicker as the fuel ages, just one of the benifits from burning our food. From what I've seen the corner pistons (1,4,5,8) tend to run leaner than the center ones and I believe 1 and 8 are the leanest with a dual plane intake. The carb shouldn't need much if any tuning, the extra air flowing through it will pull exta fuel with a moderate upgrade. If these motors were pulling all they could out of the carb then you might get the lean condition, but I don't believe that is the case with the standard HCI upgrade. Are you the only one that foots? I'm not sure my wife would recognize knock and know its bad, she would probably say something sounded different when I got back in the boat. The stock springs are probably fine, I got a set with stock springs and upgraded them, but I did measure them as I was taking things apart and they would have worked although they would have worked they didn't have much left. I got a fairly cheap set from someone named Alex on the Corral site, about $100 with shims and I think they're good to .550 lift. Again, thanks for the info, I really want a 409 but I would prefer not to be forced to do it because something I did burned up the motor. Much better to have it happen when I want to do it. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: March-01-2014 at 5:08am
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Mild detonation will start sounding like pinging or minor fast rattle inside the engine. Major detonation is usually silent but the engine will feel like you let off the gas even though you are still at wide open. The cause of power loss is the early detonation trying to blow the piston back the wrong way causing the massive increase in cylinder pressure that broke your piston and the big loss of horsepower. If you only broke one piston you probably only had detonation in the one cylinder. Let someone familiar with detonation look at your head gaskets, spark plugs and pistons, they will all record signs of detonation if you know what to look at. You might also find fractured top piston rings in the cylinder that detonated. Going to .040 over will not hurt at all but rebuilder pistons are destroked and will be an additional .020 down in the hole. If you buy performance pistons they will be at full deck height. The factory stock PCM marine engine has been tweaked to avoid detonation so you might want to look at your tune up and parts and find out what caused it before starting the new engine. Many times I have seen a new engine grenade with the exact same symptoms as the original engine only to find the guy had assembled with the same bad plug wires, distributor or plugged injector that caused the first failure. The poor owner is left holding a second failed engine after spending a ton of money on parts. Find the cause then move forward with your new engine. I called on the major engine builders covering the North West for nearly 20 years up till 2004 so my information is dated but most engine failures can be tracked down to a cause. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-01-2014 at 9:12am
|
Mr Mac, thanks a ton. I did notice a noise that i thought was a valve tapping mid way through the summer. The motor had been rebuilt before i got it. It had also sat for at least 3 years. I did find a piece of ring in pan. motor is appart but i need to do a better inspection on the other pistons. I am not ruling out early detonation. As many times as i played with timing. Motor seemed to be a touch out of balance. Or in other words not quite perfect. My plan was to rebuild top end this winter. New wires, distributor, carb, intake, cam and heads. Now it will get all of those and the bottom as well. The pistons that were in it all had the arrows pointing to the front. Some where I read they were supposed to be indexed to the back. Who knows the re builder could have broke a ring putting it back. once again thanks. I agree that i do not want to do this thing twice. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: March-01-2014 at 6:44pm
|
I know they make air/fuel ratio monitors for cars. Do they make anything like that for boats? Seems like it would be a great way to monitor a lean condition before doing any damage. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-01-2014 at 7:52pm
| They're available, but they're pretty sensitive to water so the best use is to set things up and then take them out. The bad thing is, especially with a carb, the cylinders aren't all equal so the reading is an average. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-02-2014 at 12:47am
should have better pics of pistons soon. but here is one of the redone heads ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-02-2014 at 1:27am
| Wow, my post sounded a bit negative on the O2 sensor. Not the case, great tuning tool, just not something you can run and depend on all the time in a boat like you would in a car. |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: March-02-2014 at 9:28am
Didn't come off negative at all. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-08-2014 at 12:41pm
|
Engine is in machine shop finally, came to conclusion of Iit being a detonation problem. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-08-2014 at 12:48pm
another shot of the piston not that great ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: March-08-2014 at 1:32pm
Thats sound advice, I had an o2 sensor in my 81 ski with a meter that I could plug into a laptop and record basic a/f ratios. It worked great but for a very short while, the slightest little hint of moisture and an $80 sensor was toast. Placement of the sensor is different depending on the manifolds you're running but with logs I couldn't keep the sensor dry so once I got the boat dialed in and the sensor went bad I never replaced it again. It's a fun tool but typically once you're dialed in it's not really a necessity unless you make changes to your setup, ie different prop, jets, tuneup. ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: March-08-2014 at 1:48pm
I'd say so and you better figure out why before you light the new one up. Condition of Carb...are secondaries opening, power valve(did it lean out at WOT,Probably), dist, timing (Get a good light and know your base and how much your dist adds to total advance) maybe pay to have the dist spun and calibrated, fuel quality..water in fuel..change your filter/separator, over rev?..what prop is on the boat? Also what plugs are in the motor...stock heat range?, did the motor burn oil? maybe someone put in hotter plugs because the boat used a little oil and they were trying to stop a fouling problem. Spark plugs are heat sinks and the cooler the plug the more heat it pulls from the engine...when people go to a hotter plug they don't always understand what they're changing. Hotter plug means higher cylinder temps and the engine losses ability to cool itself. Just some random thoughts but go back all dead stock with all settings because that's worked for years. you can tweak performance once you know you're safe. I think I recall you were playing with timing at one point so this may even be self-inficted but live and learn. Start with all stock settings for timing while breaking the new motor in and maybe get a few good hands on it at river run. Plug checks, plug checks.... ------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: March-08-2014 at 1:53pm
That'll buff out maybe a little wet sand, buff and slap it back in. 
|
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-08-2014 at 2:02pm
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That's what I was thinking. Maybe a little jb weld. no before it goes back together. It will be checked. Was already planning on doing top end. So new plugs, and wires, also a new distributor. Intake, heads, and cam. going to try out a quick fuel carb as well. I wont be playing with the timing anymore. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: March-08-2014 at 2:45pm
Well that's just it, you do need to play with timing so I think you get it but you don't exactly get it so I'll be kind. By buying a new Dist you are playing with timing so how is it set? You don't know as of right now so find out. Make sure you know how to measure and set the mechanical advance before you even drop it in the motor. I'm guessing on your 351 that you will want 10 degrees of initial and another 24 of advance. you're also buying an unknown carb so how is it set up? you don't know as of right now so find out. How is it jetted and what PV is in it? Honestly I would stick with the stock Holley Marine unit spec'd for your motor. Even with a slight bump in compression and a slightly hotter cam the stock holley will perform just fine right out of the box. And let us what plug are you going to put in the P heads so we can verify the heat range. ------------- |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-08-2014 at 4:10pm
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Quick fuel is jetted basically same as holley it is a 600cfm I think it is 6.5 on pv. But will have to check that.Distributor is a dui. Pretty sure from talking with them and sending the specs on cam and everything they were going to have it pretty close. Plugs for heads have not decided on yet but was thinking auto lite 705. Open to all comments and I thank all of you guys. My wife will kill me if I spend any more on this little project. Mike. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-08-2014 at 7:28pm
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Here's a great article about what caused that. %20" rel="nofollow - http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Engine/Detonation/index.php Incase the link didn't work. http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Engine/Detonation/index.php |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-08-2014 at 7:39pm
|
Alan, if I remember correctly you had your wideband in a ring at the back of the log. Everything I've read says to mount them about 45 degrees from verticals so the moisture will roll off. That's not possible with PCM manifolds where everything would have to be mounted from the side to find a flat surface. Since it's only for tuning purposes I wonder if you removed it and made sure it was dry before you started the boat would prolong its life. I think Robert (E4ODNut) runs his boat in closed loop with O2 sensors in the side of the elbows, maybe he'll be along to shed some light on the long term durability. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-10-2014 at 7:44pm
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It keeps getting better. Machine shop does not want to build on my block. They are saying it is to corroded to clean. It did not run hot before. Highest temps I saw were around 165. any ideas? Or does anyone have a block laying around? Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-10-2014 at 9:55pm
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Found a virgin block for a 100. Rolling the dice but what the heck. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: March-11-2014 at 6:17am
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Couple notes, that piston is classic detonation. Boat engines work hard and can't use as much timing as a passenger car. See what PCM recommends and stay close to that number for total timing. I don't know of any O2 sensors that will work in the marine exhaust. Reading Spark Plugs has helped tune engines for years. Check at the Champion Spark Plug web site for pictures that show reading spark plugs to help tune an engine. If the plug run is too hot it will start to glow red and the red glow will set off detonation before the spark reaches the plug. Too cold of a plug and it may not run hot enough to avoid fouling out. Again, PCM has years of development on Marine Engines, follow their lead and you will avoid problems. People jump in a boat and don't hesitate to run it wide open, sometimes for more than 30 seconds. Very few engines outside Marine are every expected to live when exposed to frequent wide open runs. For these reasons Marine engines are built to a different standard than Passenger Car or even Performance Engines. To melt the piston like that you had two flame fronts colliding and they torched your piston. Don't focus on just one cause, your entire engine could have been tuned perfectly and still had this failure if one of your spark plug wires was cross firing into another cylinder. Hope you get it back to perfect again soon. Good weather is coming. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-11-2014 at 3:05pm
going to try again, old block was so corroded, just not worth taking the chance. found nice block totally stock. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: March-11-2014 at 5:18pm
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Mike, Help me understand something here. You had the block bored .20 over to start with and then put it all together once already. Then you ran it how long before the piston fragged? An hour, two hours, ten hours, more? Even if it was 100 hours, how in the world can a block go from being good to too corroded (on the inside) in that time frame???? Unless you were running pure water where oil should have been for a long time, I just don't see how a block gets to unusable under those circumstances or am I missing something? ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-11-2014 at 7:41pm
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Missing something, I was never in this block. Did some boat trading a couple of years ago and this motor was supposed to have 300 hrs on it. Someone was definitely in it but way before that. I will try and get a picture of block. It has been ran through once. There is no space between cylinder walls at all. Totally gummed up. I think this explains why my oil has been changing colors so fast and why I was getting a huge heat soak. Anyway new block looks great. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: March-12-2014 at 11:19am
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Gotcha. So all you did was cam, heads and intake? This wasn't a complete rebuild then? The .20 over thing was messing with my head. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-12-2014 at 11:38am
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Eddie, My plan was to do the top end, the bottom supposedly had 300 hrs on it with the 20 over already done. But when I took it apart that's when the issues arose. I know it seems like I should be done with it by now. I have had the cam for 2 years. Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 5:22am
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The detonation that destroyed that piston may not have injured your crank, cam or any of the lower end. If that is the case you may be able to run the crank without turning it again to another oversize. Should save you some money. The 300 hour old parts may be perfect. New pistons, block and back in business but look hard at your old parts to find information about the failure. Your machine shop has probably seen this issue 100 times and can help you ID your problem. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 9:38pm
here we go again  ready to get this thing back together. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 9:44pm
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not sure on distributor its at the shop but i think they put 24 degrees in it. Got my DUI last night. a lot less than my last one  Did not even leave the house ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-15-2014 at 10:59pm
  ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-15-2014 at 11:06pm
 cam in  clearcoat on intake ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: March-15-2014 at 11:31pm
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Looking good. Think you'll be done in time for SJRR? ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-15-2014 at 11:55pm
Will know in the first fifteen seconds of this thing running. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-16-2014 at 12:29am
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stuck a little which way do these head gaskets go? front tabs but look like two lefts   ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: March-16-2014 at 1:33am
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Front is front, one will look upside down. Proceed. ------------- |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: March-16-2014 at 5:30am
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Please make sure you use Marine Head gaskets. Fresh water fed engines have no rust protection in the cooling water so Marine Stainless Steel body head gaskets are used to avoid rust failure. Closed systems that run antifreeze do not need Marine head gaskets but Open systems do need them to avoid rust out and failure. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-16-2014 at 11:21am
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Thanks, I knew one was upside down. But all lined up. Yes they are marine. Also automotive ones usually have no metal around water jackets. mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: March-16-2014 at 6:26pm
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Back before this forum even existed I used Felpro automotive gaskets on my rebuild. 15ish years later I put on P heads and collected parts before so down time was minimal. I bought PCM marine head gaskets this time but on removing the Felpro's there were no issues. Would not hesitate to use them again if needed. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: March-16-2014 at 6:46pm
| I have always used automotive head gaskets 25+ years never an issue.putting 2 together now with. them. Just took BBC. apart had .022 shim head gaskets in it and I know its never been apart.As long as surfaces are clean and flat don't see any problem with automotive. gasket for fresh water.Not making any recommendations |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-17-2014 at 12:24am
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almost together.Can i drill the motor mounts? new block uses 1/2 bolts. old block had something different. Had some pics but cannot upload ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-17-2014 at 10:32am
|
">  ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-17-2014 at 1:13pm
block mounting holes different size.. Mounts have smaller holes. Is it okay to drill mounts? ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-17-2014 at 1:24pm
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I always thought the holes were 7/16. 351, 302 gt-40. Maybe I need to recheck it was getting late. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: March-17-2014 at 1:37pm
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Sorry mike, was late getting the private message about the head gaskets… St. pats day around here is a holiday season. You can open up the mounts, but you shouldn’t have needed to… Every single sbf I have ever touched used the same bolts, If your block has larger holes I suspect somewhere along the line that block was modified due to some stripped threads or something of the like. I wouldn’t sweat it, but make sure that you test fit your mounts dry after you open them up. Or even drop the engine in place with them already on, getting them started in place from the bottom can be very frustrating, and if your holes were a bit off perhaps impossible. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: ny_nautique
Date Posted: March-17-2014 at 2:00pm
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The 302s have 7/16 and the 351s have 1/2" ------------- - Jeff 1999 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-17-2014 at 2:01pm
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Thanks should. Be ready for test run by friday. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-17-2014 at 11:41pm
almost together. Rain and some screwey motor mount holes got me today,. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-19-2014 at 7:12pm
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Quick question. What would be protocol for the intake ground screw? Not sure about grounding it to aluminum. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-19-2014 at 7:48pm
| What grounds to the intake other than the water temp sensor? My factory ground was to the head, same hole that's used for the lifting eyes. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-19-2014 at 8:14pm
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On mine it always was on intake. But i am going to move it to head. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: March-19-2014 at 8:15pm
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Looking Great Mike!! I can't wait to see it live and running!! One week to work out the kinks! ------------- Js |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-19-2014 at 9:07pm
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Yeah, that's the scary part ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: March-19-2014 at 9:29pm
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Sure is pretty ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-19-2014 at 9:47pm
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Man at this point I would take running over pretty. Keeping fingers crossed ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-19-2014 at 11:30pm
| I don't know if this is important, but my battery is by the back corner of the motor so the head is the closest place to ground it. The DD boats would probably have a different spot since the cable comes from the front. Unless you used stainless bolts the connection to the block is probably just as good. If you think about it gaskets seperate all the pieces so the grounds for each piece come through the bolts. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-20-2014 at 12:01am
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Sounds like v-drives and direct drives use different grounding locations. Dd's use the block for the neg batt cable and the rear intake bolt for the harness ground. You can still use his ground with an aluminum intake. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: March-20-2014 at 12:32am
While I don't know how a v drive is wired yet  my Mustang is exactly as Tim says, and I have had an aluminum intake for years with stainless bolts holding it on as well------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-20-2014 at 8:47am
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Thanks, yep we have two grounding locations. Was not sure about the aluminum. Might be in today depending on work. Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-20-2014 at 3:28pm
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[IMG]uploads/10536/skank.jpg[/IMG ready to dunk it in ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: halfnelly
Date Posted: March-20-2014 at 3:47pm
Fixed link.
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-20-2014 at 8:39pm
But the bolts are still steel. I would use some "Noalox" against the aluminum and some dielectric under the steel bolt head.------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: March-20-2014 at 10:33pm
where's the drool emoticon 
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Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: March-20-2014 at 10:50pm
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How does it run? I like to fire it up, tune it and de-leak it and make sure everything is 100% before putting engines back in the boat. That way its plug and play. Just thinking you may have the same OP. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: March-21-2014 at 12:32am
But his is a Ford,he just needs to drop it in and go  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: March-21-2014 at 12:18pm
And how did that work out the first time?????  ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-21-2014 at 8:36pm
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Freaking awesome. Had one minor leak at thermostat housing. New intake took shorter bolts. Ran like a top. Quick fuel carb straight out of box. Idle adjustment good to go. Lake Kerr for about 1.5hrs ran it to 4G was clocking about 42 with acme 540. 35k and Iit was around 35ish. see you boys at the river. Plugs looked good not really enough time to tell. no real hole shots . Firm roll out and it was gone. Plenty of throttle left. At 4 should be all the stretch it will get. May have a small air leak it was wanting to run 160. But they were long runs probably 25 minutes or so. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-21-2014 at 8:44pm
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Dui was calling for 12 we ended up at 11 at 600 rpm ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: March-21-2014 at 10:34pm
| WOW blown up to water tested in only 3 pages nice job. |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-21-2014 at 10:48pm
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Is that good? Shoot I thought I was being a pain. But I did make a couple of other post. And have been planning on the rebuild for two years. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-21-2014 at 10:58pm
 lake Kerr Super clean lake in Ocala National Forest  ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: March-21-2014 at 11:04pm
| I have been planning 2 years still have a lot of boxes full of parts but at least now I got all the pieces time to get to work.When I get home next week going to finish the 454 so I can at least run big block till the monster is done. |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-21-2014 at 11:23pm
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Good job, everyone should have a hard date that it needs to be done by so they can get it done like you did. What's the part number on that K&N? |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-22-2014 at 12:11am
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Part Number 59-3264 marine. Then order the nipple u need. I did my stringers and floor sure I have same exact measurement as a stock boat. I got about 1/2 Inch of clearance. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-22-2014 at 1:02am
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I've got at least an inch left with the stock arrestor and the the stock 1in spacer, plenty of room in the Excel for just about anything with a SBF.
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Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-22-2014 at 1:19am
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One small correction NOT sure i have same measurments. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: March-22-2014 at 2:36am
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Glad it is running so great already, you really did a great job to get it running this fast. Very Nice work and it looks great. The temp may just be the newness of this engine. A new tight engine will make much more heat than a well seasoned engine. As long as it does not go higher than your current 160 I would be patient for the first 10-20 hours of use. RPM does not scare me at all once an engine has run 30 minutes or more but heat does. I would keep any hard runs short initially to help it break in without creating any excess heat. I am not afraid to let it go full throttle all the way to red line but I keep it very brief and I don't do that until I verify what my total timing is so no parts get hurt. Total timing is the timing setting once the engine is at or above 3,500. By that point your timing advance should be all in. Set back Timing lights make checking this very easy. If your initial is at 10 and you know the Ford likes a max of 35 degrees you rev it to 3,500 and hold it there while you check the timing. With a set back timing light you can rotate the dial to 35 degrees and adjust your timing mark to zero. This way you know it will not have too much timing at RPM. Total timing is much more important for survival than initial timing. If you vary the RPM a lot while in the break in process it helps the rings and bearing seat properly. I would change the oil after the first 10-20 hours max, it is good to get the break in oil out and start again with clean fresh oil. Sorry if you already know all this stuff, I just hate to see a new engine hurt when it is avoidable. I hope you get many years of fun out of this build. |