(Cracked Block) - Sudden Milky Oil - 351w
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35808
Printed Date: May-03-2024 at 4:37pm
Topic: (Cracked Block) - Sudden Milky Oil - 351w
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Subject: (Cracked Block) - Sudden Milky Oil - 351w
Date Posted: April-18-2015 at 11:15am
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I thought I was done with this milky oil BS. The whole reason I swapped the 351w for the 302 was the 302 had milky oil. I've ran the 351 for 3+ hours since the motor swap with clean oil every time... Except last night / today. I've been running the boat off the hose the past few days while working on the carb. Last night I noticed one drop of water on the dip stick, oil was still clean so I wiped it down, checked again and it was gone. I dismissed it as condensation. This morning I slipped the Tique into the lake, hooked up my vac gauge to the PCV intake and took it down the lake to warm it up. I opened the engine cover to adjust the idle when I noticed the unplugged PCV hose had puked about a 6 ounces of milky oil all over the engine bay. I immediately shut down the motor & checked the stick. 6" up the stick was chocolate milk. I limped it back to the ramp and brought it home. No dirty plugs, which I was really surprised with because the motor was running extremely rich just the other day. I mean the plugs were pristine. I checked the compression and was between 110-120 on all cyls. There must be a huge leak to fill the pan that much with a 1 min ride down the lake & back. Where to I go from here? |
Replies:
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: April-18-2015 at 12:13pm
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intake manifold or gasket, head gasket or head crack, worse case crack in water jacket on engine block. ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: April-18-2015 at 1:35pm
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Sorry to hear the bad news Andy. Hopefully, you can get her up and running again quickly! Have really enjoyed your thread. Great work. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-18-2015 at 1:56pm
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I know how you feel Andy I had it happen last fall. Hopefully it will just be a gasket ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-18-2015 at 2:11pm
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Aside from just crossing fingers & replacing gaskets is there any good way to go about narrowing it down? I pulled the valve covers and the plugs in the heads are in great shape so no luck there. |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: April-18-2015 at 3:25pm
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Carefully disassemble, I had a head gasket failure due to a broken distributor, I could see the track across the surface of the gasket and the block where the water crossed. Was a very small area, not more than a 1/4 inch. But it put a lot of water into the oil. I also think a bunch of air gets emulsified in making it look worse than it is. if you don't find an obvious track across a gasket surface, then you will have to dig deeper. Drain, fill with new oil, warm it up, and repeat until the oil is clear again. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-18-2015 at 4:05pm
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I'm currently installing new valve cover gaskets & plan on doing an oil flush & change. I'm positive it will happen again, but I want to make sure I can duplicate the milky oil I got at the lake in the driveway hooked up to the hose. Plus I found a hand tight intake manifold bolt so I'm going to torque the intake and re-test. If that fails it'll be time to pull the heads & exhaust manifolds for a go-for-broke inspection. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-18-2015 at 5:14pm
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I had ran mine in the spring to get it to the boat ramp and had no problems. In the fall when I was done with the hull work I was running it on a hose just to warm it up to change the oil. Saw the shake but it did not seem to add much volume. Dejected I talked it over with Tim and he had made some recommendations. Did a compression check and noticed a little water on #7 plug. Pulled the manifold and you could see the rust streak in the port and manifold already. So you should be able to see something if your getting that much water. Good luck hope it's something simple ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: April-18-2015 at 6:55pm
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That sucks Andy! Really sorry to read that. Good news, plenty of time to figure it out before your season kicks in. Good Luck!! ------------- Js |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-19-2015 at 1:36pm
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Update: I drained the oil last night, took out about 1-3/4 to 2 gallons of chocolate milk. It didn't separate much over night so I can't really determine how much air / water / oil there was. Edit: I did add about 2/3 - 1 qt of diesel for the last 10 seconds of the engine flush so that wasn't accounted for in the volume total above. I finished changing the oil this morning, hooked it up to the hose & fired it up. In was expecting to run it for 5 min and see milky oil. I ran it for 30 min from idle to 3000 rpm trying to simulate my pass at the lake yesterday. The motor acted normal, good oil pressure, smooth operation, thermostat opened & closed a half a dozen and every time I pulled the dipstick it was at the same level with clean oil... WTF?  I mean this DOESN'T happen, the oil level can't be 2-3" higher with milky oil one day then after an oil change be fine the next day. The only think I can think of is Friday during / after my carb test I accidentally left the hose hooked up and ON for 10-15 min after shutting the motor down. If there was a leak in the exhaust manifold perhaps it forced its way into a pistol and leaked passed the rings and into the crankcase over night. Then I fired it up in the AM to find a milky mess. I'll let it cool down today and pull the plugs this afternoon. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: April-19-2015 at 1:56pm
I think you might be onto something there... I forget the details of how this happens (and it's been explained to me a couple times), but somehow if an exhaust manifold or associated gasket is weak/compromised, an engine that is being forced water on the hose is more prone to ingesting water than one that is sucking up it's own from a bucket. But, this shouldn't happen unless there is already an issue, but forcing feeding it water from the hose brings out the weakness. |
LeftFieldEngineering wrote:Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-19-2015 at 7:17pm
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I pulled the plugs after a 4 hour cool down & the plugs are clean. Reinstalled plugs, hooked up to the hose & rain again for another 20 min, still Clean Oil. Both of my last 2 runs I turn on the hose as soon as the motor fired, as opposed to turn it on before like I would prior. Of course still not in the clear because that water had to come from somewhere, but it's better than finding water pissing out the dipstick hole. Maybe the boat changed it's mind when threatened to cut it up into another bar if it didn't get it's sh*t together. Or it finally realized just who it's F-ing with.  One statement went through my head a lot this weekend, and it's something we should all remember: "If man put it together, it can be fixed". |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-19-2015 at 8:42pm
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Andy, What's you set up with hooking up the hose? Is it a "Timmy Tee" which does not valve off the hull pick up or does the hook up see whatever pressure is at the hose? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-19-2015 at 8:58pm
| It sees whatever my well pump is pushing, and I'm guessing that's not a good idea? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-19-2015 at 9:25pm
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Andy, Set up your hose connection like Tim has recommended and many have followed. It's been posted several times but http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35646&title=advice-for-reviving-a-87-sn-2001-after-10yrs" rel="nofollow - here's a recent thread (Disregard the picture of CQ!)  The RWP will suck what is needed and the rest of the water will go out the hull pick up or all of the water if the engine isn't running.------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-19-2015 at 10:36pm
Well there's a hell of a concept  , that'll be installed ASAP.
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Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-21-2015 at 10:20am
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Guess it all comes down to this afternoon: I'm going to pull the plugs one more time and crank it over by hand to see if any of the cyl's have water in them, if not it's off to the lake to see what happens. I also picked up a 40" USB Bore-scope camera for 20 bucks on Amazon. That way if the water does returns I'll start by pulling the exhaust hoses and go looking for signs in the exhaust manifolds. Wish me luck. |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-21-2015 at 10:44am
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I'm betting the hose left on with engine off caused your milky oil. I'm also just a little bit curious about a hand tightened manifold or head bolt. I'm always afraid of the hose filling the engine, so I start engine, turn on hose, turn off hose, turn off engine. Hope that's all it is 😅 ------------- 2008 MasterCraft 197TT 1996 Nautique Super Sport 1988 Waterlogged Supra Mariah |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: April-21-2015 at 10:49am
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My Silver Nautique had a cracked block above the cam bearings and only leaked every now & then. Plugs were clean and ran very well but it filled the block up with water. It did that for 3/4 weeks before I found it... Good luck! ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-21-2015 at 11:27am
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I'd like for someone to explain the path that the water would take if they think a garden hose can somehow force water through the RWP and into the cylinders (or oil). I hope you're in the clear Andy, but I've never been so lucky. Compression test being good is a good sign, but I would bet you'll see it come back after you get a load and some heat cycles on it. Exhaust manifolds are the most vulnerable to an overheat in my experience, I've cracked a few pairs. Freeze damage might point to the intake. The former would result in some evidence of water in the cylinders. The latter would require pulling the intake and inspecting the valley. Hopefully it's one of those and not the block or heads. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: April-21-2015 at 11:54am
Well, I remember it wasn't so much a matter of "forcing." It was more a matter of a leak between the exhaust port and the water jacket within the Edit: EXHAUST manifold. Then, if the engine is running, the escaping exhaust blows out any potential water. But, if the engine is not running, water is still going through the cooling system/exhaust manifolds etc. with the garden hose connected in a positive fashion. Water then has the potential to find it's way into a cylinder through an open exhaust valve. Of course, this scenario requires and exhaust manifold that is already compromised. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-21-2015 at 12:03pm
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A cracked exhaust manifold will leak regardless of the method used to cool the engine. It is caused by water in the manifold leaking (internally) from the water jacket. It doesn't matter if the water came in via hose (bucket, tee or direct) or if the boat is in the lake. The most stringent test is one where you put a good heat load on the manifold (running the engine under load) so as to expand that crack. If the manifold isn't cracked internally, water will not enter into the cylinders even if the hose is pumping water through the engine without it running. To imply otherwise is confusing the issue. |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: April-21-2015 at 12:47pm
| A Ford based 351W can also leach water into the oil via the front timing cover. Consider all possibilities and systematically test it before deciding what to repair. Good luck! |
Posted By: mamigacz
Date Posted: April-21-2015 at 1:25pm
It never occurred to me that this could happen until I looked closer at a picture of the back side of the timing chain cover.  If the gasket failed between the water port and timing chain cavity, wouldn't you see the leak dripping down the front of the engine? |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-21-2015 at 1:29pm
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The first thing I need to do is duplicate the problem. I may not be able to explain the how or why just yet, but until it comes back under normal operating conditions there may not actually be a problem. Hell, for all I know some disgruntled mastercraft owner could have come by and poured a quart of water in my motor just to give me a heart attack. That being said I'll take a cracked intake, cracked exhaust manifolds, or even cracked heads any day as long as the block is spared. I can assure you a full motor rebuild is not in the budget. As for the hose hookup I can attest to the fact that with the engine off there would be some water coming out the exhaust so it must be getting past the RWP. Even then the path of least resistance should be through the exhaust manifolds & out the tail pipes so the block wouldn't see much if any pressure. Since I ran the boat for 1.5 - 2 hours in the lake a few weeks back & the oil was clean after I'm hard pressed to believe it's lake related. Since that trip I pulled the carb for a rebuild which required me to remove 1 intake manifold bolt (that secured the throttle return spring). I spent the next few days trying to get the boat running right in the driveway. During these on / off cycles the hose was on a majority of the time. The longest hose-on time was Friday when I came inside to update my Carb Running Rich post here on CCF. In my opinion the only shot I have of it being a simple fix lies with the "loose" intake manifold bolt. The bolt had been removed for 24 hours before it was snugged up with a 1/4" drive ratchet. For all I know it started dripping water into the valley as soon as the bolt was removed and had emptied the intake manifold into engine before I reinstalled the carb & bolt. If not then perhaps it was the heating & cooling cycles during Thursday driveway tests that broke the seal, again allowing it to drip overnight into Friday. Now that I'm thinking of it I do recall seeing steam or smoke coming from the valve cover breather on Friday. It's an old motor so I didn't think much of it, but Saturday morning I removed the backfire arrestor to see if the boosters were dripping and noticed liquid in front of the choke horn. I smelled and consequently tasted the liquid, it was water. It must have condensed in the backfire screen overnight. Meaning the water was in there before I got to the lake and probably even before my Friday test. Looking back having the PCV valve disconnected and it puking oil all over was a blessing in disguise. Had I not seen the milky mess on my first pass I would have continued with the plan to take my buddy footin' and would have almost certainty smoked the main bearings in the process. I'm ashamed to say I didn't check the oil before starting the boat. I never had to worry about it with my old 2 stroke outboard. Needless to say checking my oil before each run will be at the top of my priority list. |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-22-2015 at 7:27am
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Tuesday Afternoon Test: I backed into the lake, checked the oil and fired it up. She ran fine for 5-10 min on the trailer before I was confident enough to unhook it and take a spin around the lake. I drove around the lake opening the engine cover every 300 yds or so to check the oil and it's still pretty clean. The physical problem I found was the starboard exhaust riser is externally leaking at the gasket. I snugged down the bolts, but it still drips above 2k RPM. It wasn't leaking bad enough to call it quits so I proceeded to make a few more passes ranging from idle to 45mph putting in about a hour of run time. A few times when I checked the oil I would see the very faint white streak in the oil, however this seemed to dissipate later / after the run. I'm also still getting a little bit of water condensing on the under side of the breather. Since I only changed the oil / filter once after the milky oil mess this could be just residual moisture that was stuck in the motor. Having seen the external leak on the exhaust riser I pulled the corresponding spark plugs and they were still clean. My plan this afternoon is to pull the exhaust hoses & go looking around with the bore camera to see if I can't find any internal leaks or rust staining. |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-23-2015 at 9:15am
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After pulling the starboard exhaust riser I was able to use the bore camera to take a look in the exhaust runners all the way up to the valves. The resolution wasn't good enough to see hairline cracks, but it was neat to see inside without taking much apart. The riser gasket was pretty beat up, but I didn't see any rust stains or clear evidence of leakage into the exhaust. I have an idea to pressure test the exhaust manifolds in place so I'm machine the adapter and give that a shot this afternoon. If it passes I'll just put it back together and wait for it to come back. |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-23-2015 at 9:49am
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Boy, my problem is eerily familiar to this one no? Sudden 1/2-1qt high milky oil, good compression, hell it's even leaking at the same exhaust manifold riser gasket. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22006&PN=1&title=sos-part-deux" rel="nofollow - S.O.S. - Part Deux |
Posted By: KennyStar
Date Posted: April-23-2015 at 11:14am
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does your motor have a cooler on it? ------------- kenny |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-23-2015 at 12:07pm
| Oil cooler? No. Again I'm not that lucky. |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-25-2015 at 6:01pm
| 15 min on the water & my luck ran out. We're back to milky oil. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-25-2015 at 6:56pm
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Exhausts or intake would be my guess. Spark plugs dry? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-25-2015 at 8:07pm
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Yes the plugs are dry + I pressure tested the exhaust manifolds with a block-off plate when I had the risers off I couldn't hear or see any thing. I'm most likely going to pull the motor and start taking it apart. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-25-2015 at 8:42pm
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Andy, Since the plugs are dry and you did pressure test the manifolds, I as Gary mentioned, suspect somethings up with the intake manifold. Check the T stat area real good. The area has been reported to be a problem. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-25-2015 at 9:48pm
| I agree, pop the intake off before committing to pulling the motor. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-25-2015 at 11:07pm
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Andy, If you don't have a http://www.zoro.com/i/G1260612/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&gclid=CjwKEAjw9uypBRD5pMDYtsKxvXcSJACcb9AY2jJI-SrGO3NrRX38egyoxbZb_gOT912MW9-myF8TChoC3ynw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds" rel="nofollow - Magnaflux Spotcheck kit I suggest getting one. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-25-2015 at 11:56pm
| Ya I picked up one similar the other day, it should be here early this week. |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-26-2015 at 4:34pm
Well you guys were right about one thing; pulling the intake did find my problem. Too bad it's a crack in the  block. Didn't need the crack checker to find this baby, hell Helen Keller could have found this thing.   
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Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: April-26-2015 at 5:13pm
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That sucks! So sorry to hear that. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-26-2015 at 6:20pm
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That is too bad ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-26-2015 at 6:21pm
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Nothing a little JB Weld won't fix! When you pull the head, it will be interesting to see how far it goes. As already mentioned, that sucks! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-26-2015 at 6:48pm
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Actually it was quite foolish of me to think that after rebuilding every other part of the boat the motor would be any different. In reality I'm still quite lucky, (as I mentioned it before) the problem presented it self by puking oil all over the place on my warmup run last week. Had this not happen I would have probably smoked all the internals skiing that day. With oil pressure still at 40-60 psi and running like a champion I have no reason to believe the rest of the motor is bad. Looks to me like it's pullmotorfindblockrebuildmotorcocktailtime. |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-26-2015 at 9:05pm
Step one: complete (good thing I didn't throw out my motor stand)
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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-26-2015 at 9:26pm
| Bummer. Junk yard 351 and a few gaskets and you're in business. I'd look for a 1-piece block and get the RH seal on order. Don't forget the new damper! |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-26-2015 at 10:01pm
| I'll keep an eye open for the 1 piece block. A guy at work has a 351 already in pieces he's willing let go for under 100 bucks. I also have another friend who's brother rebuilds motors and he said it may even be repairable. I'll have to pull the head and see just what's going on. |
Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: April-27-2015 at 7:27am
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Sorry to hear that, but I have to say, you don't waste any time moving forward!! ------------- Js |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-27-2015 at 11:40am
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www.car-part.com is your friend search for a 95 ish engine for an f150. Don't search engine block cause they wont list just the block, and don't search 83, cause engines that old aren't common and they wont cross to the common ones because they assume you want the newer accessories. I did a quick search and showed a few options around 400 bucks within 50 miles of you. If you tell them you are just going to tear it down for the block they might give you a deal because they don't need to worry about any warranty. With quick cylinder hone and some new rings,.maybe some new bearings if you are feeling rich... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: April-27-2015 at 12:02pm
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Sorry that happened to you Andy, after all that hard work and how excited you were to get it out on the water. Clearly you have the ability to address it, Hope to see having it out on the water again soon. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: halfnelly
Date Posted: April-27-2015 at 12:10pm
94+ 351w blocks are also hydraulic roller ready 
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Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-27-2015 at 12:29pm
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and a 95 bronco or f250 is likely to have the roller lifters and spider present, but if he is going back to a RH engine the cam to go with them is something that doesn't exist in the wild ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: halfnelly
Date Posted: April-27-2015 at 12:31pm
| Forgot it was a righty, rats. |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-27-2015 at 1:49pm
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After calling in every favor I could I manged to scrounge up a few potential blocks. I also called a couple engine shops to see what rebuilds cost these days. Here are the current options: 1 A.) Pull the head and see if it's fixable. If it is; send to my friends brother to nickle weld the water jacket, install a new head gasket, reinstall the intake and give it another shot. ($200-$400) 1 B.) Same as 1A, but trade some fab work for a set of re-manufactured heads and install them with 2 new head gaskets after the repair. ($300-$600) 2.) Get a parts 351w from a friend, strip & dye check the block, buy a rebuild kit & send it off to my friends brother for a top to bottom rebuild. ($600-$1000) 3.) Send the motor to a local engine builder; new block, rings, pistons, bearings, gaskets, rebuilt heads, returned ready to install, with a 3 week lead time and a 1 year warranty ($3200) 4.) Pick up re-manufactured long block with 2 yr warranty, buy new exhaust manifolds, new damper plate, dye check my intake & swap over the rest of my gear. ($3000) Option 3 and 4 would normally be off the table, however my parents completely shocked me and showed some interested in donating to the cause. Perhaps it was all those years of yard work when I lived at home or maybe they just want unlimited boat rides. Whatever the reason I'm not going to turn it down, every penny gets me one step closer to the lake. As for the rest of the money I'm going to have to get creative. That being said if you happen to know anybody looking for a custom Nautique bar, fabricated parts or CNC plasma signs, you know where to find 'em
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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-27-2015 at 2:32pm
| I would go with #2. If you're going to put any money into heads, just buy some reman'd gt40p's as they're superior to the stock e7's and will only cost $100 over reworking what you have. |
Posted By: connorssons
Date Posted: April-27-2015 at 2:32pm
how much for bar 
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Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-28-2015 at 2:24pm
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Why heads, I thought it was just the block that was cracked. What heads are in it now and what is offered in the trade? |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-28-2015 at 2:27pm
Not nessasarrly |
Posted By: halfnelly
Date Posted: April-28-2015 at 2:51pm
Irrelevant anyway, it's RHR. |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-28-2015 at 3:27pm
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I had started haggling for these heads before I was aware of the block crack. Just like Tim I like keep piles of spare parts around "just in case". Although they were stock heads, they were recently rebuild and had no more then 20 hours on them. Doesn't much matter, I'm not going to need them now. Instead I'm going to do something I didn't think I would do; sell my boat.. Of course I'm talking about my 66 MirroCraft . Selling the boat + a little shop work should get me enough for a re-man 351w long block, a new damper plate, new water pump and a transmission kit. With any luck I'll have it assembled, broken in and on the water in a few weeks. Sure hope it works too because I'm selling my only good boat to fix the broken one. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-28-2015 at 3:39pm
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Wow, not how I would have gone with it, but I know sometimes you need to just go skiing. Make sure who ever is remanning that long block is going to be around long enough for the warranty to be worth something. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-28-2015 at 3:40pm
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Agree with joe. RH rollers exist, just not in the wild! |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-28-2015 at 3:51pm
| Well if one of you guys wants to play around with some motors I have a 351 and 302 (both with bad blocks) that need to find a home. |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: April-28-2015 at 4:03pm
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Is there a reason you can't use roller tappets with a flat tappet cam ? Just cost ? We all use roller rockers to replace the stamped steel rockers. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: halfnelly
Date Posted: April-28-2015 at 4:07pm
Roller cams are totally different animal than a flat tappet cam. Different metallurgy, different lobe shape. The roller is on the left, flat tappet on the right: 
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Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: April-28-2015 at 7:07pm
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You'll make it work. ------------- Js |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-29-2015 at 6:36pm
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There is a company based in Turlock CA, Lock and stitch is the name I believe. They have a process to close cracks in blocks that works. It involves drilling small holes in the cracked area tapping the holes and using the Lock and Stitch process to bolt the crack closed. Sounds strange but it works very well. About 20 years back California had a large freeze that broke engine blocks all over the North State. Lock and Stitch was the only process that permanently fixed the cracked blocks with no distortion issues related to trying to weld Cast Iron. Might be worth a check., I was an engine rep for Federal-Mogul, Sealed Power calling on all the Engine Shops on the West Coast some built 1,000 engines per month so I had a lot of exposure when the Freeze hit, Lock and Stitch came out the hero in that Freeze and made a good name for the product. I am sure they have a web site that could be checked to learn more. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-29-2015 at 10:57pm
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Mark that could definitely work but by the time he goes through all that it would be much cheaper to get a 2-3 hundred dollar block from a salvage yard and do the rebuild. I got this roller long block off the local craigslist for $200 http://s256.photobucket.com/user/gun-driver/media/408%20project/DSC01277_zpszncrp1jy.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-29-2015 at 11:01pm
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http://www.locknstitch.com/cracked_engine_block_repair.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.locknstitch.com/cracked_engine_block_repair.htm Link to lockstich |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-30-2015 at 12:21am
Hey, they even called those holes in the side of the block the correct name!!! " 5.9-liter engine block with a crack below the core plugs" ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: LeftFieldEngineering
Date Posted: April-30-2015 at 8:05am
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Don't get me wrong having my friends brother rebuild it or rebuilding it myself would have most certainly been the cheaper route, however some additional factors have weighted in on my decision. I may not have admitted it as a teen, but now that I'm in my late 20's I'll concede to the fact my parents typically know more then I do. That being said when they offer to pay for 80% of a re-man unit I'm sure as hell not going to turn it down. On top of that I'd rather have a 3rd party engine builder put it together so when it blows up I'm not forever pissed at my friends brother or myself. Once the long block is assembled, broken in and installed I'll update the http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35537&PN=1&title=the-1979-ski-tique-restomod-story" rel="nofollow - '79 Ski Tique Resto-mod Story |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: May-01-2015 at 8:17am
OK, I know rollers have steeper ramp angles, are and are made from better material and can stand higher spring pressures. I guess the question is will a roller tipped tappet wear through a cast cam. Roller tappets = less friction = free horse power (except for the up front cost of the tappets) ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-01-2015 at 9:40am
| Andy, I believe the answer is yes. A flat tappet blank wouldn't survive a meeting with a roller lifter. Different material and treating. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: May-01-2015 at 10:02am
Those things are anchors, 90 percent of the parts on them would come free with a good junkyard block. If either has a RH crank with wick lines (a 2 piece rear seal) then you can pull the crank out before you junk them but the rest of the long block parts aren't worth much. Keep any marine accessories/brackets or put them up for sale. Then scrap the rest, soon trust me, I had to move around more engines and hoarded parts than I care to admit this week, my back is killing me. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: May-01-2015 at 10:51am
A lot more to it than that. The flat tappet cam lobe is ground at a slight angle so the pressure from the tappets keep the cam pushed toward the back of the block and prevent the cam from "walking" forward into the cam cover. This slight angle also rotates the lifters to keep them from wearing in one spot. This is the reason that when you reuse flat tappets on a cam they have to be put back in the same spot they came from. Each one wears itself to that specific cam lobe. A roller cam is ground perfectly flat so the roller lifter sits nice and square on the lobe and you don't want it to rotate. A roller lifter that rotates would be really bad. This flat grind however can cause the cam to "walk" forward so you have to put a thrust bushing between the cam and the cam cover. That slightly angled lobe on the flat tappet cam would not allow the roller lifter to sit nice and square on the lobe exacerbating the wear that Tim mentioned. Then the roller lifters are significantly taller than flat. This requires a different length pushrod to get your valve train geometry back where it's supposed to be. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: May-01-2015 at 8:47pm
| I agree with the above post and keep in mind the rollers always have a nice arc to the top, the roller stays in contact with the cam lobe. A flat tappet cam with the sharp top might launch the roller wheel as it tops the cam lobe and end up pounding the wheel into submission. Roller profile camshafts do hang the valve fully open longer at the exact same lift giving more intake and exhaust ability with the same total lift so they have more power across the RPM range, broader torque curve, not more total HP but more power from idle to wide open given the exact same lift and duration cam profile. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-01-2015 at 9:37pm
x - 2 what Joe said after using the block the only thing from that picture that didn't go to the srap yard is the cam and roller lifters and not sure why I kept the cam. |