Can I replace a 351 with a 302 in 1993
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Common Questions
Forum Discription: Visit here first for common questions regarding your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36222
Printed Date: May-06-2024 at 11:20am
Topic: Can I replace a 351 with a 302 in 1993
Posted By: Pastor Ken Mahan
Subject: Can I replace a 351 with a 302 in 1993
Date Posted: June-03-2015 at 12:57pm
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I am a pastor who was given a 1993 Ski Nautique with a blown engine. Grateful for the boat yet challenged with the repairs. Can I replace the 351 with a 302? I'm told the 302 is easier to find, easier to maintain and cheaper on gas. Any advice sincerely appreciated! Pastor Ken ------------- Ken Mahan |
Replies:
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: June-03-2015 at 1:20pm
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Welcome Pastor! First thing you need to determine is if the 93' is a Standard, plain, all white & no vinyl on motorbox version or not, as I believe those were right hand rotation, aka bacerds running. |
Posted By: Pastor Ken Mahan
Date Posted: June-03-2015 at 1:23pm
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I'm told it is a Windsor reverse. Does that answer your question? ------------- Ken Mahan |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: June-03-2015 at 1:33pm
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I think you're better off sticking with the RR 351 Windsor. You won't see a difference in fuel, perhaps even more consumption with a 302 in that "big" of a boat. Plus sticking with a 351 RR you can keep the parts you have, switching to a 302 would mean buying more parts. If what you have is a RR then you must have a scrappy edition? Do you know what's blown on your current engine? The fact that one suggested maintenance is easier on a 302 worries me. |
Posted By: Pastor Ken Mahan
Date Posted: June-03-2015 at 1:40pm
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I will find out what they meant by "blown". Thank you for responding. ------------- Ken Mahan |
Posted By: DMH
Date Posted: June-05-2015 at 7:02pm
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Welcome Pastor. The 93 SN is the first year of all fiberglass construction. May make a nice boat for you. It would be great to see a few photos. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7506" rel="nofollow - 1982 SN 2001 |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: June-05-2015 at 8:55pm
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Sure, you can do it, but you're going to have a tough time locating a reverse-rotation 302. What is "blown" about the 351? Often when people refer to an engine to be "blown" it turns out to be only repairable problems. ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: Pastor Ken Mahan
Date Posted: June-06-2015 at 9:31am
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Water came into the oil. ------------- Ken Mahan |
Posted By: Pastor Ken Mahan
Date Posted: June-06-2015 at 9:35am
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I do have pictures. I'm trying to figure out how to post here. ------------- Ken Mahan |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-06-2015 at 10:06am
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Here is a help thread- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35168&title=putting-pictures-on-cc" rel="nofollow - link Water in the engine could be 2 different things depending on where it happened,if the boat was always down by you it could be just gaskets. If it's from an area where it freezes it could be a cracked block. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: June-06-2015 at 10:53am
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Could have been nothing but an overheated engine. What happens is that for some reason, most often weeds in the intake plumbing or a failed impeller. The exhaust manifolds get heated to higher than boiling temperature, therefore fill up with steam. As the engine cools, the steam condenses and the space where the steam was is replaced by water sucked in via the exhaust system. The water enters the cylinders, then overnight it runs past the rings into the oil. Or, as Gary said, possible failed intake manifold gasket. Worse, a head gasket, but doubtful. OR, could be a failed exhaust riser or manifold. ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: June-06-2015 at 7:33pm
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PKM, was this boat used in salt water? I see you are in Delray beach? I would investigate the repair angle. The boys here can help guide you. Yes to the pictures. Good news with a 93, no wood stringers!! I have a 92, so I have to include that point into my prayers. Welcome aboard, and good luck with it! The Smith Family ------------- Js |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-06-2015 at 7:55pm
This is true but if the "blown" is major, a block and the RH parts from your existing engine would be an option. Hopefully it's just exhaust manifold(s). If run in salt, it would be #1 on my list to check. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
ArtCozier wrote:Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: June-06-2015 at 11:05pm
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That's kinda where I was going; diagnose and repair. There are lots of available remanned engines in South Florida. The cranks are no longer directional since the one-piece rear main seal came about. RH cams are almost extinct, but still can be found or custom-ground. I haven't been able to find any RH distributor drive gears, but a complete RH dizzy is available from Mallory. RH starters are no problem. ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: June-07-2015 at 1:30am
Welcome, Ken! I'd like to know who told you this. By 1993 a reverse rotation engine is quite rare. Can you tell us what is on stamped on the id plate on the transmission in your boat? I'd guess you will find it is a PCM 40A. That A means that you have a normal rotation engine, I have a 1993 and all the 1993 guys I've talked to on this site have normal rotation engines. Not that they don't exist, but a RR 1993 is more akin to a unicorn than a horse.  ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: June-07-2015 at 9:04am
| But if it were a scrappy it'd be RR and the BW1:1 |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: June-07-2015 at 10:14am
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Great point, Kevin. I completely missed that angle. O-76 makes a good point also, in the early days of reduction gears and LH engines, we did make what was referred to as the "scrappy", a plain-Jane boat with a 1:1 transmission and a RH engine. Not many of them out there, but certainly a possibility. The engine model number will tell the whole story. I don't recall when PCM changed their model number system, but I think all the Fords are under the old system. If so, a PL prefix is LH and a PR is RH. ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: June-07-2015 at 10:39am
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BTW, for those who might be interested, on the PCM 1..23 : 1 reduction gear, 40A the "A" stands for "Angle" because the input shaft is at a 5 degree angle to the output shaft. The 1 : 1 is a 40I (as in capital "I") is for "In-Line." ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: June-07-2015 at 11:29am
| My boat is actually a Scrappy. I haven't seen too many others though. |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: June-07-2015 at 2:18pm
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Ah, I'm glad that we cleared that one up! I need to learn to think faster before I jump into these threads. Now you have another option..... Put a LH 351 in it and a 1.23 (IRM40A) transmission. If it was mine, I'd want to stay with the 1 to 1! ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-07-2015 at 3:03pm
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I hope we hear from pastor Ken to find out what engine/trans package he has. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: June-07-2015 at 3:24pm
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Pete, it's what we referred to as a "scrappy" Ski Nautique. After we went to the reduction gear trannie using LH engines, some diehards (like me) favored building a reduced-cost SN using a 1:1 gear. It was offered with no options, and standard was a 351 RH on a Warner 1:1. That's what he has. (see posts above) ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-07-2015 at 4:09pm
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Art, The OP (pastor Ken) is the one wanting to replace his supposed "blown" engine and why the RH/LH rotation came up. Brian stated he has a scrappy but that was simply a confirmation on a RH with a 1:1 in his boat. I still hope Pastor Ken gets us some more information as well as pictures. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: June-07-2015 at 10:47pm
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Pete, my intent in that post was to explain to you why there was a '93 with a RH engine. Your post previous to that sounded as though you didn't know that the engine rotation has been settled because now there is no doubt that it is a Scrappy. ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: June-08-2015 at 12:47am
| Actually, we still don't know if the original poster has a Scrappy. I just pointed out that I had one, to show that they're out there, even if they're somewhat rare. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-08-2015 at 6:54am
I was trying to explain that to Art!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-08-2015 at 1:09pm
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Engine rotation is probably pretty far down the list in repairing a donated boat. Yes, you can put a 302 in. You could go smaller too but you will need a certain amount of power to do what the boat was intended to do. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-08-2015 at 1:19pm
| Engine rotation may not matter to the pastor but I would imagine that minimizing costs might be. In which case, it would be most cost effective to replace the block and rotating assembly with the equivalent size and rotation as what was there previously, else all of the other parts needed, from oil pan to accessories, starter, distributor, prop, etc etc etc will NOT swap over, and that can get very expensive. |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: June-08-2015 at 1:22pm
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OK, I'm kinda slow, but now I get it. I failed to notice that it wasn't the original poster who said he has a scrappy. My bad. ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: Pastor Ken Mahan
Date Posted: June-13-2015 at 3:24pm
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I uploaded the pictures to my profile. ------------- Ken Mahan |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: June-16-2015 at 3:07am
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Ken - can you upload the photos to this thread. If you don't know how to do that there is a link in the FAQ in the Boat Maintenance section. You can also hit the little arrow that points up and to the right in the Quick Reply box (where you type replies). This brings up at full reply window and in that window is a picture upload button. Click that and upload your pictures. Or email them to me and I will post them here so we can all start to help you know how to fix your boat. Let's get that thing on the water! ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: June-17-2015 at 12:54am
could not see them...can you follow GaryS suggestion & just post the pics here in the thread? john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: Pastor Ken Mahan
Date Posted: June-17-2015 at 6:37pm
     ------------- Ken Mahan |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: June-17-2015 at 8:23pm
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looks like you have a standard rotation engine, and a 1.23:1 transmission. This boat is not a "scrappy" as described earlier in this thread. before you go any further, you need to do some troubleshooting... visually first. - check the "casting"(freeze) plugs that are around the perimeter of the engine... if they are pushed out, you have likely had a freeze situation. I suspect from your location that this is not likely, but they are easily repaired by putting in a new brass set. (replacing does not mean the problem is repaired, but this is the first step) - look at the exhaust manifolds (black triangles on the side of the engine) , this is a good place to start with your testing... Pull the manifold assy, and pressure test the manifolds. there are several threads on how to do this, but there is a picture thread in the FAQ section (see CCF FAQ thread) Once you determine if the manifolds leak or not, report back and we can give some additional direction. You'll need some new gaskets to put this all back together, you can get them from Zach @ n3 boatworks, or skidim, Christines marine, etc... BTW, you'll want to soak the manifold bolts in some sort of penetrant for a few days, and possibly use an impact wrench to pull the manifolds. this may be the most difficult part of the repair, but can be done. broken bolts may come with the territory, but not necessarily a guarantee.... welcome aboard, and congratulations on a fine machine... several rough ones have appeared from time to time, once repaired, they seem to be well loved. |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: June-17-2015 at 8:30pm
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What's the last two numbers of the hull ID (just under platform, right hand side)? I don't think you have a '93. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-17-2015 at 9:40pm
| It's a 93. |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: June-17-2015 at 9:44pm
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I thought the "World Championship Ski Nautique" on the transom was prior to '93. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-17-2015 at 9:49pm
| Nah, there was some decal bleed over from 92 to 93. Pylon and port coaming pad are more telling. |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: June-17-2015 at 9:52pm
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Ah, teflon coated pylon. Missed it. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: June-17-2015 at 10:56pm
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wow..nice. someone 'gave' that boat to you...you must be a heck of a Pastor! get it running 1st...then you can address the looks. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: June-18-2015 at 3:43am
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Yup - that is a '93. A little rough, but more than I started with. You can save this boat. Do the things suggested here and report back to us. Take some photos and post them here of the engine, the freeze plugs, the exhaust manifolds, etc... You'll be surprised what can be fixed and brought back to a shine on that hull and swim platform. Congrats, and welcome to the no-wood-stringers club! We are happy to have you on board. ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-18-2015 at 8:44am
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Anyone else remember the 'Reverend Shred' series of water-ski t-shirts? ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-18-2015 at 11:59am
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No but I do remember my buddy in high school emailing casinos asking for playing cards to teach kids mathematics and odds. He got boxes and boxes of free cards. ------------- |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: June-19-2015 at 12:08am
yup...can see why now... Thanx HW...but how you find some of this stuff is amazin' john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: June-19-2015 at 3:25am
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I want to see the Waterski team! What a cool video. ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: June-19-2015 at 9:49am
The Above and Beyond logo reminds me of the Air Nautique logo:
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