Hard starting when the engine is warm
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3783
Printed Date: May-16-2024 at 11:46pm
Topic: Hard starting when the engine is warm
Posted By: bmiller
Subject: Hard starting when the engine is warm
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 2:33pm
| Hi everyone,I'm a new member and I need help.I bought a 1978 correct craft mustang17 off this website and I love the boat, but I have a nagging problem. The engine is a stock 302 an this is what I have done to it. This spring I installed a new 600cfm edelbrock carb on it,set the fuel mixture and is running perfect.I also installed a pointless system with a new electronic coil.The ballest resistor is taken out of the system for it all to work correctly.All new plugs,wires,cap,and rotor have been replaced. When the engine is cold it starts perfect,warms up to proper temp and runs perfect.When I shut the engine off I can start it right back up.My problem is when I let it sit for 5 to 10 minutes It takes for ever to start back up.Like 8 to 10 cranks.As the day goes on it gets harder to start.I'll have to crank the engine 3 times,each time 8 to 10 revolutions before it starts and on the third time I have to bury the throttle to get her to start.I have checked everything an i am stumped.At first I thought I was boiling the gas out of the fuel bowls of the carb because of heat.Thats not the case,I can pull the thottle back and I have gas.I check the anti-siphon devise at the tank and it is working.The engine is perfectly time at 10 degrees btc and I have good vacuum on the engine, it 18 inches.The plugs are burning clean. So I have gas and fire but its just hard starting when the engine is warm.When it does start it runs incredible.Need some help guys,PLEASE! |
Replies:
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 2:48pm
|
If its an electric choke I would disconnect the linkage for a day and and see if there is a difference. It is possible it is adjusted too rich and takes a lot of heat from the element to get it open. If it gives the same problem with the linkage disconnected then you can rule that out.
-Joe. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 3:23pm
|
She's flooding out due to a leaky needle valve (or two). Time for a carb rebuild. ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 3:26pm
|
I've never herd of an electronic coil so, I take it you replaced the points with a conversion kit and a new coil, or did you replace the dist with a new elecrtroinc distributor and your using the old coil that was on it?
Sometimes when the coil get's hot it creates this type of problem if it's an old coil, but i'm not sure if you have a new coil or old. Double check the choke and make sure it's not a problem and that it's opening up. On the Q-jets which is very simular to the edelbrock's there are cast in marks on the top of the choke housing at the 12 o-clock position one tall one in the center and several others in each direction. There is also a mark on the choke coil, black piece. Loosen the three screw arond the outside edge of the choke coil housing and line up the mark on the choke coil to the second mark to the right of center or two notches rich and tighten the screws back down to hold the setting. Basicly your adjusting the choke setting and making sure it's not to rich which causes the engine to flood when hot and trying to start it, that's why you have to give it a lot of throttle to get it started hot. so you have to rule out it's not the choke causing your problem before adjusting or changing anything else. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 3:33pm
I guess you missed the part about it BEING NEW? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
David F wrote:Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 3:37pm
|
Check the exhaust manifolds and make sure you don't have water leaking in past the valves while it is turned off. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 4:14pm
That would cause a hydro-lock situation and prevent it from cranking, while it bent rods because it couldn't compress the water in the cylinder. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 4:39pm
|
Not always, just refering to a small amount of water getting in. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 4:42pm
| It does have the electric choke but I never touch it or adjusted out of the box I thought that was done at the factory.I'm a little ignorant when comes to carbs.Thanks for the tips and if you can think of anything else let me know.About the hydro-lock situation,I don't think thats the problem because it will turn over. This engine only has 214 hours on it an its the orginal,just to let you guys know. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 5:06pm
|
the odds of having a leaky manifolds is very slight and highly unlikely, you would have other issues while it was running and not a starting problem.
Common mistake everyone thinks that you can just bolt on a new carb and not adjust anything and that's the first mistake. You need to adjust the choke and you'll also want to adjust the idle mixture screws. Don't try and force the choke stat to rotate a bunch because your just going to tear it up, look at where the marks are currently set and if there is the so-called scale, the bumps I was talking about, Then we can walk you through the carb. Do you know how the idle mixture screws are to be set? You'll want to see where the choke is set at now, your going to want to adjust the idle and the idle mixture screws and maybe the accelartor pump too. But first your going to have to verify that the timing is correct, then you are ready to start to dial in the carb and get rid of this flooding issue. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 5:50pm
|
I would have to say you are wrong about the leaking exhaust. Mine did this once. It ran fine, the exhaust was blow the water out while it was running. But when you turned it off, water could enter through the exhaust port, which would slow cranking some, and hindered it from starting a few moments after turning it off. The longer it sat after turning it off the quicker/better it would restart. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 9:15pm
| I adjusted the fuel mixture on the carb according to the edelbrock manuel and used a vacuum gauge when setting them.Like I said I have 18 inches of vacuum.The plugs burn clean and the engine has great power at all RPM ranges. The engine is in perfect time also. I didn't have to change any jets or rods.I'll try adjusting the choke tomorrow and see what happen.One question though and sorry for the stupidity should it be adjusted when its warm or cold.You would think I should know that.I just still have alot to learn on them. |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 10:05pm
|
I always liked to run my choke a bit on the lean side and have found better results pumping the throttle a extra time in real cold weather.
When it does eventually start, does it pour out the black smoke?? If so, chasing a ignition problem wouldnt cure it. Good luck!! Jeff... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: Munday
Date Posted: June-05-2006 at 11:24pm
|
I'm bettin that its flooding by spillin gas past the needle and seats rockin in the water.You still have fuel pressure and the boat rocks a bit opening the needle valve dribbling a little fuel into manifold.Do you have an angle plate under carb?I would diffenetly adjust the choke first thing like 79 said.
Good luck Munday |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-06-2006 at 7:47am
| 79,One question if I turn the choke 2 notches rich wouldn't I put more gas to it.Seems to me that I would want to lean it out 2 notches.I have noticed that my choke does seem to start closing to soon after I shut it off.Is my thinking correct about this or am I wrong? |
Posted By: skyhawkflyer
Date Posted: June-06-2006 at 7:50am
| Check that choke adjustment like everybody says. If you think your pretty close on it then stick the boat in the water and run it. Set yourself up for one of those hard start scenarios and physically look and see what the choke is doing. You can watch it by looking at the linkage position coming off of the electric choke pull off, or by removingthe flame arrestor. Most more than likely your choke is closing, but if it isn't... well then there is something else going on. Removing the flame arrestor or checking the linkage position after you adjust the choke will reveal what is going on. Per the instructions the choke adjustment is pretty simple, but may need a few tweeks to get it just right! |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-06-2006 at 9:33am
|
Adjusting the choke doesn't really add any more or less fuel it adjusts the amount of air allowed to pass past the top butterfly. Basicly the coil is a spring tension for the top butterfly and the choke pull-off is what cracks the butterfly once started so it's not completely closed. As you rotate the choke stat you should see the top butterfly move some. The elect. connects heats up the coil and opens the top butterfly all of the way once it's hot and you can adjust the choke stat hot or cold engine running or not.
Try 2 notches rich and go from there, just make sure the choke pull-off is set corectly, so you'll have to re-move the arrestor to check. Actually check the choke pull-off setting first. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: June-06-2006 at 10:29am
Yep, I did. ------------- |
Posted By: skyhawkflyer
Date Posted: June-06-2006 at 10:43am
|
More info:
An area of the carburetor generally misunderstood is the function of the automatic choke. Automatic chokes use a bimetallic coil to close the choke plate, and vacuum to open the choke plate. It is important to understand that the bimetallic coil does NOT open the choke. Automatic chokes are of two types: integral, and divorced (also called remote). The integral choke is an integral part of the carburetor. The divorced choke resides on the manifold (divorced or remote from the carburetor) and has an operating rod from the choke to the carburetor. In general, carburetors with divorced chokes use a separate choke-pulloff to open the choke. Integral chokes have a piston inside the choke housing. In general, the bimetallic coil rotates when cold to close the choke. As the bimetallic coil is heated, it relaxes, and the choke is pulled open by vacuum. In the case of the integral choke, there will be a tiny vacuum passage from the throttle area (vacuum source) up to the choke housing where vacuum is exerted on the piston. If this tiny passageway is clogged (often), no vacuum is applied to the piston, and the choke does not fully open. A problem with divorced chokes is the use of an incorrect thickness carburetor to manifold gasket when the carburetor is rebuilt. This will change the required length of the choke operating rod, and may result in the choke either not closing, or not fully opening. Setting an automatic choke is quite simple, even if an aftermarket choke is used. For integral chokes, loosen the retaining screws such that the choke will rotate freely. Adjust the choke such that the choke plate just touches closed at 68 degrees F. (65~70 degrees is close enough). Tighten the retaining screws. For the divorced choke, the same setting applies, but bend the operating rod to set the choke plate. |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-06-2006 at 11:23am
| I'll give it a shot tonight.I'll let you know how I do. |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 8:09am
| Hey guys,last night this what I did. When I first started I looked at where the choke was and it was already set 2 notches to the rich side right out of the box.Then I rechecked everything,timing,vacuum readings.Found out due to a bad gauge that my vacuum was low so I recalibrated the carb.I reset the idle mixture screws and got 18 inches and the boat did sound better.I also noticed the butterfly would not completely open so I actually had to lean the choke open to the first rich setting.I did notice once I did this that the choke would stay open much longer when I shut the engine off. .The engine seem to start a little better,like the sixth crank .Also each time I started the engine I would never give it any thottle to start when it was warm.If I set it any richer it would just crank and crank so I set it back to the first rich setting.I really don't think I've really fixed my problem.Now To let you know I can simulate my problem whether the boat is on the trailer,with a hose hooked to it or in the water.I know 0n my 1965 mustang car that I own it has the old autolite carb on it with the stove pipe setup for the choke and it works great.Once its warm all I have to do is hit the key and it starts right.So tell me guys what else could I be missing or is this the best I'm going to get.Maybe I'm just to picking on how it should be starting,but I don't think I am.Anymore suggestions would be great. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 8:53am
|
How did you go about adjusting the idle mixture screws? Did you screw each one in until the rpm droped slightly then backed it off 1/4 turn? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 9:00am
| I turned the mixture screws in until they seated,backed them out two turns then adjusted each screw in to lean it out and got 18 inches of vacuum. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 9:12am
|
try my suggestion on how to adjust them. I think your still have it a little rich, Holley's like it that way but not the q-jet sytle carbs. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 10:01am
| A old mechanic kinda showed me how to do it,but I went onto a website for ford motorsports and they showed how to calibrate a edelbrock performer series like I have on a 302 by using a vacuum gauge instead of a o2 monitor.So I just went by that,its what I had to go on.Anymore suggestions from anyone would be greatly appreciatied.Thanks to 79 for your input also. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 10:27am
|
So let me get this straight you set the Choke one step leaner and it helped a bit but then instead of moving it another step leaner you turned it back to rich? Please do as I suggested previously and unhook the choke linkage for a day and see what happens. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 11:11am
| I'll give it a try JoeinNy.I just did what 79 said.When i started the choke was already 2 notches to the rich side of the choke,the butterfly was still not open all the way when the engine warmed up .So I took it to the first notch,this opened the butterfly all the way and when I shut the engine off it stayed open longer.Like I said it may start a little better but not like I think it should. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 11:12am
|
Ya Joe he's sure got it figured out all right, got the old mechanic and the ford racing boys straightening him out, couldn't be that the idle mixture screw's are rich as well as the choke. Don't quite understand why you want to disconnect the choke linkage, that's just going to flood it all of the time. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 77stang
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 11:41am
|
bmiller,
regarding the fuel mixture adjustment, the holley manual supports your old mechanic in that they say to gently seat both screws, turn out 1-1/2 turns, start the engine, let it run up to temperture, turn each screw in use 1/4 turns till rpm drops, then use 1/4 out turns till rpm drops due to rich mixture, now set each screw to to somewhere between the two extremes where maximum rpm and maximum smoothness is obtained obtained. although this is a subtle difference in all the approachs suggested, i since that it's going to be a subtle change your looking for. nonetheless, set it according to manufactures procedures, and you can atleast move on to further analysis other than the fuel mixture. Now set your idle speed adjustment till specified RPM is acheived ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1360&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - '77 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 11:50am
|
you can't adjust a Q-jet carb like a Holley, Like I said before, maybe one day you'll catch your tail you've been chasing. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 11:57am
|
I have the same carb, I havent finished the new wiring harness so I just ran it an entire week without the electric choke hooked up, The choke plate stays open all the time that is how I was running it in the video below. The spring in the choke when it is cold will hold the choke closed until the element heats up then the choke opens. My holleys all have had manual choke's so I don't know how they work but I know that pulling the linkage on the Edelbrock takes the choke out of the equation. You just have to be careful not to drop that little cotterpin into the bilge. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 77stang
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 11:58am
and maybe one day you'll hit the water with 10.5 volts geez, your just not happy unless your thowing an insult ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1360&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - '77 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 12:08pm
|
It doesn't help explaining how to adjust a completely different carb.
Joe, I guess if the coil is getting enough heat to open it up then it shouldn't load up the engine, usually the electrical current heats the coil and there isn't a heat riser passage when an electric choke is used so it won't open as quick as it should if the wires where connected. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 12:16pm
|
Jerry calling you an a?? would be insulting,
making a comment about chasing it is sarcasm ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 77stang
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 12:18pm
|
79,
your right on my wasting time talking about a holley. I looked up the procedures for his carb after my error (altough i still havent found the manufactures procedures). nonetheless, the procedures i did find were substantially more involved than any other assitance provided in this thread. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1360&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - '77 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: 77stang
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 12:20pm
i guess i'm just being a bit sensitive - no harm, no foul - ill just fall back into obsecurity ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1360&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - '77 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 12:21pm
|
I always loved bookworms, they where good about quoting from books and taking tests, but put them in the lab or the real world and they can't do jack most of the time.
nothing personal or anything just my view point. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 77stang
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 12:33pm
|
79,
I have to use the manuals, i'm a CPA not a mechanic although my father was a factory mechanic for forty years and always stressed the importance of manuals. I've been burned enough by shade trees and winging it if you will (certainly not assuming you are a shade tree or anything even close to such) I might add however, that a small percetage of GM truck rearends howled and it was caused by an issue never addressed in the manuals. hence GM sent some engineers here to tulsa to see what dad did to solve the problem. thus, your comments on experience and not complete reliance on manuals is well understood ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1360&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - '77 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 12:52pm
| Sorry I started such a differnce in opinion.I'll try leaning it down some more,who knows I may have to change some rods and jets,since this is a 600 edelbrock instead of a 450 holley.What do you all think of that,maybe the carb is a little too big.I just hate holleys,plus there more expensive. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 12:55pm
|
I never thought my Dad was as good as he is, until I made him hook-up my first car to a 4 gas analyser to dial in the carb that he rebuilt and adjusted on the 65 belair a month ot two earlier. He tryed and let me try to get it better than it was already set at but we couldn't, that's the day I learned why all of the other mechanics in town came to my dad with carb problems they couldn't fix asking for help. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 12:57pm
|
brad your carb's not that far off and with a little more fine tuning you'll have it and your expectation that when it's hot you shouldn't have to hit the gas is correct and we'll get you there inventually. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 12:59pm
| JoeinNY,I assume you have the edelbrock 1409,so how did you set yours up? |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 1:38pm
|
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/carbs_acc/pdf/carb_owners_manual.pdf - Edelbrock Owners Manual
I followed the choke adjustment proceedure in the Owners manual on page 8 or so. Too lean is the way to go on a boat IMHO as your usually going to be running when it is warm and the engine box stays pretty warm after the motor is off for longer. I would have walked you through the adjustment proceedure had the removing the link solved the problem, but when helping to trouble shoot by post with people of unknown experience its easier to go one step at a time. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 2:48pm
|
I'll try again tonight and see what happens.I'll let you know how it goes.Just to let you know if anyone live close to Cincinnati,I live 10 minutes south of the ohio river in kentucky.If anyone has a helping hand,that would be great.
|
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 3:25pm
|
I would say set the choke at straight up nutral. Adjust the idle mixture screw by slowly turning them clockwise until the rpm drops then back it off a 1/4 turn, repeat for the other side, then do it all over again until it takes exactly 1/4 turn leaner to drop the RPM on both sides, then the idle mixture screws are adjusted correctly and all you'll have to do is adjust the choke a little leaner if needed. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 3:29pm
| JoeinNY did you have to change any rods or jets when you installed your edelbrock on your 302? And if you did what did you use? I assume you don't have this hard starting problem when your engine is warm. |
Posted By: 77stang
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 3:46pm
|
i'm going to ask this, been wondering since the onset of your post. when your boat is hot does the starter spin the motor as hard as it does when its cold?.
also, someone on page one asked if the motor dumps black smoke when it finally fires up after it gets hot. i never saw your response to that question. 79, i'm simply trying to get another chasing his tail. i'm such a master at it i thought i'd share  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1360&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - '77 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 3:54pm
|
His comment about a 450 being on it before worries me a little too and I'm just curious if it was a two barrel before and now it's a four. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 4:05pm
| It seems to crank the motor as fast.Also the motor never smokes when it fires up hot.The 450 holley was orignal to the boat.The 302 motor came with 450's, while the 351's came with 600's.Thats why I wonder if I need to change rods and jets,depending on the edelbrock manuel. |
Posted By: 6strings
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 10:11pm
| Not to hijack the thread but, 77stang, you asked whether the starter spins the motor as hard hot as it does cold...I used to have that problem frequently. After it cooled a bit, it would crank normally and eventually start. What are the main causes of that? Thanks. |
Posted By: 77stang
Date Posted: June-07-2006 at 10:27pm
poor battery cables or poor connection in the battery starting circuit. electrical resistance goes up when the components get hot so if there is a problem with cables it becomes an issue when teh motor is hot. I dont know if it's the main cause for that condition but i know it's a pretty common one ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1360&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - '77 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-08-2006 at 8:09am
| Hey guys,I got it last night.I really leaned the carb down.Got the vacuum where I wanted it,kept screwing the mixture screws in till I heard the slight rpm drop.I can run the boat,get it hot,shut it off and wait 5,10,or 15 minutes and all I have to do barely crack the thottle and it the key,third crank of the motor and it starts every time.Also had to set the ckoke 3 notches lean.Thanks for the help guys,I've been beating my head against a wall for weeks now. |
Posted By: jameski
Date Posted: June-08-2006 at 8:44am
When your engine is warm, you should not have to crack the throttle at all. You should be starting it in neutral at idle. If you give it ANY throttle, you are activating your accelerator pump and this will cause an over-rich (flooding) condition. When everything is tuned and set properly, you should be able to start by just barely bumping the ignition switch (not "third crank of the motor"). Good Luck!  ------------- current boat http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1977 - 94 Sport Nautique previous boat http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=601 - 78 Martinique |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-08-2006 at 8:59am
|
Glad to see progress has been made. You have the right carb for your engine don't worry about the 450 cfm vs 600. My engine starts warm pretty much instantly and when the choke is attached and wired it starts cold pretty much the same way. If you have to give it gas to get it started warm then I would suggest pulling her out for a rebuild or at least pull off the plates over the float bowls and look for any evidence of crud. Starting will not be effected by rod and jet changes and in general the rods and jets that ship with the 1409 I found to be about right for my 302 last year. I left it maybe two steps richer at the end of the year but we were doing a lot of pulling multiple skiers (got up to 6 before running out of ropes). I have new heads, rockers, exhaust, and ignition on the motor this year and am going to need to re prop to get the rpm back down reasonable those changes will be enough that I will get the strip kit back and make some changes... possibly with an eye to more fuel economy... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-08-2006 at 9:30am
Additionally, too much initial timing will cause those symtoms when hot. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-08-2006 at 12:51pm
| So if the timing nedds to be tweaked a little which way do you go? Advance it or retard it. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-08-2006 at 1:09pm
|
you want the timing to be around 8-10 BTDC at 600-700 rpm ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-08-2006 at 1:11pm
| Well I've got it at 10BTDC on my boat.Seems to be the sweet spot for my boat. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-08-2006 at 1:16pm
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bmiller dont get carried away on the timing issue. Gottaski was talking about tweaking the timing if your engine doesnt turn as fast hot as it does cold like 6strings was reporting, I think he is right to suspect timing in that case, but that doesn't apply to your scenario in my humble opinion.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-08-2006 at 1:21pm
|
check what the timing is at 2500 rpm to verfy that the mechanical it advance is working correctly. and that it doesn't need tweaked a little. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: June-26-2006 at 8:21am
| hey guys,I'm still having a little problem with the hard staring of my boat.I have finally noticed that once the engine is shut off that I'm boiling the gas out of the fuel bowl.I can see the steam come from the front two barrels of my edelbrock carb.Does anyone know where I can get a phenolic carb spacer with the pcv fitting on the back of of the spacer.Summit racing has one but the holes of the spacer are 1 5/8 where the the carb has 1 1/2.I think thats to much of a difference.Let me know where the best parts place is guys.Thanks |
Posted By: bmiller
Date Posted: July-05-2006 at 8:20am
| Hey guys,I finally put a phenolic carb spacer to help keep the carb cool.It really does a great job keeping it cool,but I still get the white smoke out of the front two barrels of the carb when I shut the engine off.Its not as bad as it use to be and the engine does start better maybe the 6th.crank or so when the engine is hot.So does the white smoke out of the front two barrels mean. |