Prop question/suggestion/problem
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38359
Printed Date: April-24-2024 at 6:48pm
Topic: Prop question/suggestion/problem
Posted By: lcgordon
Subject: Prop question/suggestion/problem
Date Posted: April-02-2016 at 1:23am
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So want to say thanks in advance for you guys letting a not CC guy ask questions on here. So the motor I have is a 350 efi with 260hp I think. On the motor it says max rpm 4400-4800. Remember im also in denver so im at 5280 elevation. Ok so my old prop was a 13x13 oj that has some dings in it. I think we gps it at 40mph one time and im not sure what the tach said. So just bought a acme 541 from hollywood. The thing looks great, looks brand new and he did an awesome job shipping it out quick. So I put it on and got my first run today and we were at 40.5 or so mph. That is with half a tank and 2 ppl in the boat. When my buddy went in the back we touched 41. The rpm was at 4200ish maybe a touch over that not 4300 tho. So now Im wondering what you guys would recomend for a prop with those numbers I just gave you. Just to refresh your memory the 541 is a 13x12. Another option is the 543 and thats a 13x11.5. Im also wondering if I could go to a 13x11? I dont know anything about props I could be going the wrong way here. I do know acme says the 543 should give you an extra 150 rpm or so. Thanks again |
Replies:
Posted By: chuckactor
Date Posted: April-02-2016 at 1:56am
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If your hitting 4200 I think your doing well. I have an 85 2001 and live just north of you in Ft Collins. When I first got the boat it struggled to hit 4000 RPM. Even with a tune up I could barely hit 38-39mph. I ended up with an Acme 912 which is a 13x10.5. RPM is up about 10%. To be honest I don't think I picked up alot of speed if any but it sure pulls hard out of the hole now. Probably like it's supposed to run at sea level. I might play with the jetting a bit this season, Chuck |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-02-2016 at 2:09am
| Thanks for the info. My footing partner used to have a 79 MC and stock prop here in denver got him 39 and with the 541 it got him 42. I mean you should be able to get the max or close to it rpm out of your motor if you prop it right. I am willing to sacrifice hole shot a bit if it means I can one foot. Through the slalom course and get up it did do great. I was really looking for some more footing speed. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-02-2016 at 9:40am
| Id order a 913 if it were me. Figure 300-400rpm per inch of pitch change, so that would put you in your 4600-4800 range that you want to aim for. In this case it should be a win win for top end and holeshot. I wouldn't expect to pick up a lot of top end but probably a little (1mph or so) vs the 541. Holeshot will improve more noticeably, though I'm sure that 541 was a significant improvement over the stock prop. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-03-2016 at 2:21am
| Ok so Update. I have been having this idle problem where it would idle fine and then when you reved it up it would not go down past about 1500 rpm. So when trying to figure that out we noticed the perfect pass cable was too short to allow the throttle cable to reach full throttle. Also the idle problem was the cable pivot end, the part that connects the throttle cable to the throttle control, is worn about half way through. So I swapped the end with the transmission one (just for this weekend will order some monday) and I put on the regular piece that connects the throttle cable to the throttle body. After a bit of adjustment it worked perfectly. Also (I put the stock prop back on so that i did not dent the new one for some stupid reason) so with running the stock prop it got me almost 100 more rpm and it went from 40mph to 42 mph so tomorrow morning im going to put on the 541 and test it. I think I will like it after all. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-03-2016 at 5:08pm
| Update from today put the prop on and it pulled me about 40 footing and it was bouncing between 41-42 with not footer. It had lower rpm from the stock prop too by maybe 50 or so. So time to put the stock one on and look for the next option. Maybe the 543 or the 912 like TRBenj suggested. Its pretty frustrating |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: April-03-2016 at 6:33pm
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Do you ski the Pits? ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-03-2016 at 6:50pm
| Sorry not sure what that is |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-03-2016 at 7:39pm
If your running a left handed prop you'd want a 913 like Tim suggested. A 912 is a righty. I just got a 913 from Delta a site sponsor for $346. Took several weeks,they did not have it in stock so they had to order from Acme. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
lcgordon wrote:Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 1:38am
| Yeah I looked it up and noticed that. I just thought the 541 would change my life like ppl said it would. I noticed zero difference and it may have been a bit worse. Just may be my boat i guess. |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 10:30am
Keep in mind Landis, you're in relatively foreign territory. Trying to get prop or carb help for people at sea level comes pretty easy for us after quite a few years of experience. 5280' is quite another story. We're learning just as you are. FYI, when I was doing prop testing for my AmSkier my stock Federal prop was a 13x12 that was repitched and rebuilt to 13x13. I turned that sucker 5800 and got 55MPH out of it but it pretty much just sat there boiling water until I let off of it a little and had to ease it out of the hole to WOT . After trying virtually every version of OJ available and a couple different ACME's none of them could match that 55MPH WOT speed. They came close but none matched it. Virtually all of them had much better performance through the entire RPM range though. Some better then others. The guys at AmSkier finally got smart and started putting 13x13 props on the boats from the factory (vs. the 13x12) like they should have always had. The point I'm trying to make is that the factory prop on these AmSkiers is pretty good already and the noticeable performance improvements experienced by CC owners is not going to be the same. It's still a completely different hull. Improvements can still be made however and virtually every AmSkier running the proper ACME prop experiences better OVERALL performance then the factory wheel. All it takes is a little experimentation. You're also at a big disadvantage already being at altitude with a bone stock 260HP engine. Yet you still want it to be able to run 42-43MPH for barefooting. I would be really surprised if any similar boat can do that without some some serious engine mods or having a stock engine running significantly more HP. Keep working at it with the best guess knowledge you'll find here. I'm sure you'll find a better wheel then the factory. I just don't know that you'll find the results you're truly expecting but I also truly hope I'm completely wrong. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 11:39am
I'm with these guys in that I doubt any prop is going to get you the speed you're looking for with that engine, hull and elevation. You're going to need to get some significant RPM increase to overcome further pitch drop to net higher top speeds. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 11:51am
| Thanks guys for the help. I know nothing about props and the MC guys love the 541. My buddy had an older MC and it gave him 3 mph and his rpms were at his max. So I thought it would help my boat. The thing that has got me is that my boat turns more rpms with the stock prop and also gets a higher speed. I mean we are talking like 50 rpm or so so there is alot of factors like wind chop and driving in which direction on the lake and stuff but by the calculations 13x13 to a 13x12 should give me 200 or so more rpm. Atleast once I took the too short of perfect pass cable off it did give me an extra mph tho and I could notice it while footing. Im not doubting you guys that my boat may just not be able to get what I am wanting, I am just confused because everybody says that I should have gotten better results by atleast a little over my stock prop. Oh well time to just be happy with what I have. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 11:54am
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What is your boat? From Eddie's comments must be an American Skier, what year? If you love the boat and plan to keep it, I would think you could get some more HP out of that 350 at a reasonable cost, even given your altitude. You probably need 50-60 more HP to get where you want to be, footing in low 40's without needing to run at WOT. Or, going to a GT-40 powered boat would do the trick, mid to late '90's Ski Nautiques are pretty reasonably priced at this point. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 12:18pm
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1994 American skier Tbx Its a budget boat. I dont make much money and denver is expensive to live in. For footing out here I really need an outboard. An old Barefoot warrior with a 225 should do. Maybe someday. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 12:34pm
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Got it. In some ways I think everyone on this site has some sort of budget boat, so you are not alone! Guys, would Landis benefit from a carb re-jetting for his altitude? I'm wondering if it's jetted for us normal sea level people. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 12:55pm
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Nope. We were over this in another thread. Maybe the barefoot thread. It's a EFI SBC and exactly the reason why I'm such an anti-EFI guy. They're awesome at self adjusting to virtually all conditions but you get what you got. Adding HP is not a cheap option like you can do with a carbed motor. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 1:25pm
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Some iron vortec heads should perk it right up i suspect. Just have to dial in the all-in timing , as those heads don't need as much advance. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 1:26pm
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My bad, assumed it was a carb motor. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 2:16pm
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Thanks again guys for the help and suggestions. I just got off the phone with acme, think I talked to kevin. He went over some numbers with me and he suggested the 1609 which is the same as the 1608 for you guys who spin the right way. He told did the math and it should get me to 4550 ish rpm. He thinks I may get a mph but it would be better for my boat to spin less prop and not have such a high load. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 2:25pm
| You're a couple years late, Once upon a time I had a 1225, 1609 and 543. Have you found any avenues to demo? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 2:26pm
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There should NOT be a significant difference in WOT between a properly tuned (not flexy) 13x13 Oj or Federal and a 13x12 Acme. You cannot compare prop sizes exactly across different brands- too many design differences. The 200-300 rpm delta for 1" pitch applies to Acmes. It's pretty close for comparing oj's. Can't use it to compare acme vs Oj. Top speed should be similar between a 541 and a 13x13 hand finished Oj or federal. The federal is a good top end prop when unloaded in my experience. Not so much with a skier behind the boat- acme wins that for sure. Holeshot, smoothness and mid range power are significantly improved with the acme (esp vs the federal). Some people struggle to feel the difference in the seat of their pants. Others notice the difference. I've lined similar boats up side by side and run them over and over with different props on each and can attest to the performance advantage of the acme. Hand finished Oj was an improvement over the federal but couldn't match the acme in any way. Except top end when unloaded- but not for skiing. Anyways, you're still leaving performance on the table at 4200-4300. You don't need to be an expert on altitude tuning to know that. Get an acme that allows you to turn 4600-4800 at wot and that'll maximize what you can get without changing something more drastic (engine hp). I suspect it won't be huge (maybe 1 more mph) vs where you are now, but it'll be moving in the right direction. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 2:30pm
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1609 looks like a 543 with .020 less cup. He's probably close on the 4550rpm guess. Since you're a footer and really care most about top speed under a load, I'd be aiming towards the higher end of the range (4600-4800) when unloaded. Hence my 913 advice. 4550 is a step in the right direction but still comes up short. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 2:34pm
| Tim, do you really believe he's ever going to see 4600-4800 at elevation? |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 2:34pm
Bummer I need all of those! and with acme I can buy and ship back so I guess you can call that demoing. TRBenj-Thanks for that post it pretty much sums up the basics of what I need to know. I will try to keep trying until shipping props gets too expensive. On a positive note I have learned how to change a prop pretty well ( not that there is anything to it). I need to get a big box of cotter keys trying to straighten them and get them back in is a pain and probably weakens them and is not the best thing to do incase something did actually happen. Btw I love the suit you sold me it fits me perfect and is really easy to get on. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 2:41pm
| Get yourself a box of stainless cotter pins from McMaster that will last you a lifetime of prop swaps for under $10. Pretty sure I use 1/8" x 1.5". I use 18-8 but Pete will tell you 316 is better. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 2:43pm
| Thanks for that Ill do that. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 3:01pm
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I also buy 1/4" brass key stock and cut it down... Good call on the McMaster cotter pins. Kev, of course he'll see 4600-4800, just gotta prop down further at altitude. I do not believe he is above the altitude where there ceases to be oxygen in the atmosphere.  Call delta and see if they're willing to let you return a prop of it doesn't run optimally. They used to have a pretty generous return/trial policy, but confirm they're ok with it beforehand. Knowing the 13x13 and 541 data point, I'd make a big jump to the 913 next and see what you get. Dial it back a bit if necessary but i bet you'll end up close to where you want to be with it. Glad the suit fits! |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 3:10pm
| Ok thanks Ill give them a call. and see what they say. I really hope I can get away with one more prop buy because at 20 bucks a pop to ship it gets a bit expensive to do alot of it. Its worth it to get some toe hold tho I guess. The shoes are fun but Im ready for barefeet. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 3:12pm
| There's oxygen up there alright, maybe not as much as inside your head though... |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 4:47pm
| Just called delta and they do not have returns. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 5:45pm
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Asking if they'll take back a used prop for a full refund is not the way to frame the discussion. . I have heard that story from several people and I think you are asking the wrong question. Tell them your situation and which props you're considering. Allow them to give advice but I wouldn't let them steer you into anything besides the 913 to start. Ask what happens if you're not happy with the performance and see what they say. ("Send it back and we'll make sure you get what you need" is what I was told recently). |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 5:59pm
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Ok thanks thats good life advise I would think it would work with more than just props. I will give them another call in a couple days. On another note you really think the 913 is the one for me to start with? That would be going against acme recommendations. Idk how much actually boat time they put in. You may have more time spent finding a good BF prop then they do. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 6:13pm
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My next move if I were you would be 11" pitch with .060" cup, but unfortunately that doesn't exist. I really don't know of what kind of market you'd have selling the 913 if you didn't increase speed (and just burn a ton of fuel). I had no problem selling my 1225, 1609 or 543 to the ski boat crowd. I'd be comfortable with the 1609 purchase. I really don't think you'll get more than 4400 rpm with any Acme nor will MPH increase with the 913 over the 1609 (and we'll likely never know.) You're not overpropped with the 541. Elevation, engine and hull drag are your main problems. I just don't see an 600-800 rpm pickup with any prop change. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 6:22pm
| They said that they could take the 1229 which is 11" pitch with .120 cup and make it a .08 cup. Wonder if that would be better? |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 6:24pm
 I generally like to move in 1" pitch increments. 1/2" gets you nowhere fast. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 6:32pm
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Sorry HW, you're crazy. If he's turning that 541 4200-4300, he's over propped. Drop pitch and you're gonna gain rpm. It's not gonna stop increasing unless the engine can't pull it. A 260hp 350 won't fall off its powerband until he approaches 5500. Move the wot rpm to where the engine makes peak power and you stand to optimize speed (all else equal). It's not a difficult equation and altitude just requires a little adjustment. I think the suggestion of the 13x11 with .060-.080 will get you in the 4600-4800 range (though probably the low side of it). Be aware that acme only charges full retail to protect their dealers, so it won't be a bargain. It's also a custom prop at that point so that may hurt its value even more than the 10.5" pitch. I think either choice would get you close. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 7:00pm
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Thanks, I dont know what acme charges for a prop. Skidim charges 412 for the 541 so im guessing it would be the same for the other props. They offer a 10% discount and they allow returns but have to pay shipping back and a 5% restocking fee. Acme will let me return anything paying shipping back even a custom order. Or they will fix that prop they customized for me. It just depends on the acme price. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 7:17pm
| Oh and regarding prop recommendations, I am willing to bet that acme and delta are not trying very many props themselves. Acme understands reasonablg well how performance will change between their props once you have a baseline. Delta, a little less so. Still, they are largely regurgitating performance numbers supplied to them from their customers. Feel free to weigh opinions as you see fit but some of the customers providing performance feedback to acme and sharing it on this website have more hands on prop testing experience than some/most of the techs you'll get on the phone. |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 7:27pm
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Not to discredit the advice given here but maybe post this question on ball of spray? There's a few guys there running higher elevations, especially left wheels. Maybe they've been down this road before. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 7:37pm
| Thats what I thought. I kind of figured there advice is "perfect world" advice. In a perfect world you can just do the math and it will tell you exactly what will happen. The real world is not like that im guessing. Thats why I would listen to the people on here. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 8:03pm
| Once you understand and control the other variables, the math usually works quite well... It's that first step that is sometimes forgotten. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 8:13pm
| I got ya that makes sense. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 10:35pm
Thanks for the suggestion, hadn't thought of that. Looking at McMaster, 100 of the 1/8" x 1.5" in 18-8 are $12.55, and 25 of the 316 in same size are $8.31. Since 25 will last me a long time anyway, any reason to NOT go with the 316 stainless? ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 10:59pm
None at all. As Kevin mentioned, I would have suggested the 316 anyway!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-04-2016 at 11:56pm
| Man thats enough to replace them just for fun |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 4:49pm
| Acme recommended me calling valley props in California. I did and they are running numbers and going to give me a call back. He is looking between the 1609, 1229 and the 913. He did mention that he saw why acme recommended the 1609 and not the 913 but did not state why. I think they have a decent return policy on non custom props. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:07pm
Why would he even mention it if he didn't even tell you why?  Sounds like someone who doesn't know his props but wants to make you think he does with his "crunching numbers"! IE: he needs to ask someone else!! BTW, there are several software programs out there that can be used but, none of them are as valuable as the information you have already gotten here especially Tim's. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:11pm
| +1 ^ |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:24pm
| He just called me back and told me that the 1609 is my best chance to gain a mph. He said the 913 will give me the rpm but wont be enough to give me anymore mph. This is also what acme recommended. He also asked for computer reports for the 541 fix that I have now. He said that he could do a proper fix on that prop if it was not fixed correctly. He seems to know what he is talking about. With elevation it does not seem as simple of an answer. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:26pm
| Forced induction |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:27pm
| I dont know what that means |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:33pm
It means adding a supercharger to add power by stuffing more air/fuel mixture into the cylinder. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:37pm
| Thats what I thought but we were talking about props so I was confused. I am just so nervous about buying the wrong prop. TRBenj said that once you have a control down crunching numbers works pretty well. And this guy and acme both "crunched the numbers" or pulled a number out of a hat, and came up with the 1609 and thought this would be the only one to give me that elusive mph. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:37pm
|
Landis, is it worth saying the following to the guy - "I'm on board with running the 1609 that you are recommending, but a guy whose knowledge I respect feels the 913 may do the better job. Could I buy both, I'll run them carefully for a few passes to get the results, and will return one of them within a week of them arriving. Could you do that if I pay the return freight on the one I don't like? You'll have my money so if I damage the prop that will be on me, otherwise refund the price of the one prop." I don't know what his answer will be, but they want to sell props and there's no risk for them. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:39pm
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If they are a good salesman they would seem like they know what they are doing. Are they willing to back it up if you don't get the results they say it will? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:40pm
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Acme recommended calling Valley Props. Valley props said "let me get back to you". They both recommended the 1609. I'm not saying they are wrong, I don't have enough knowledge to know which prop is the right one, but think about it, Valley Props just called Acme, Acme said 1609 just like they told you, and so it appears they came up with it independently but I bet that's not the case, it's just Acme's finding. Acme is a good outfit, I'm not for a minute saying you shouldn't be listening to them. Just have a feeling what I spelled out above is what happened. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:43pm
| No prop shop is going to promise Landis anything. They're simply giving him their best recommendation. You can't possibly guarantee any hard performance numbers. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:49pm
| 99% of the time Greg at acme would make a recommendation to me he would say (but you know more about the boat/hull/engine combo than I do so use your decision not mine). Likely, the info here is the best since Tim and or anyone has quite the amount of inboard seat time in testing different props/hills/engines. Acme uses a mathamarical analysis that pulls engine speed/power/mph etc to make a recommendation. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:51pm
| So this means get what TRBenj says which is the 913 |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:54pm
| Either one just may satisfy your needs but you'll never know which one is better without running them both... |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:54pm
| Basically what everyone here has said yes. But, just like the prop shop he can't guarantee performance. I would spin buying both props if they aren't special order and returning the one that doesn't perform as well. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:55pm
| Sorry I did not notice the posts a couple above. I will ask them again If that is something they would do. It would be nerve wracking to have 800 dollars wrapped up in props that are just waiting to be dinged just once. But thats the risk you have to take I guess. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:58pm
Not me. You! lol Or buy one and if you like it be done with this. Do you need the absolute best prop or one that is good enough? |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 5:59pm
| Yea. You're basically spending 400 bucks for 1 mph ha. I wouldn't probably do that but if you actually need that 1 mph make it happen. I'm sure we've all blown money on way stupider things. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:03pm
Its amazing what you will do to try to learn 1 foots. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:05pm
|
If it was just 1 mph WOT it might not make sense, but seems like the hope is that while footing it might be one, might be two mph and the difference in being able to one-foot. Landis, another option is to drop 30 lbs.! ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:06pm
| You're skiing at 70' with an extended pylon right? If not you should be. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:06pm
| Ha, I used to think I needed to go way faster to one foot than I did. Now it's easy at most speeds. Then again I only weigh 135 lbs. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:09pm
|
He doesn't own an acme yet so it's not $400 wasted by any stretch. I think there is a high probability that the 1609 with the factory .120 cup is going to put you in the same 4500 ballpark that the 543 would. I do not like cup doing the job of pitch and would choose the 543 between those 2 (additional cup makes the prop less efficient). The 913 will put you closer to 4800. Unloaded, both are gonna turn very close speeds, but I'd be shooting for the 4600-4800rpm range, and I generally prefer to aim towards the high end. That produces the best all around performance in my experience. That and the fact that you're gonna be putting a load on it (which will drag rpm down incrementally) tips the scale in favor of the 913, IMHO. Hw is right. You'll never know which runs better unless you try both. I've seen variation between 2 new factory props (same model) so this isn't quite an exact science... At this point you've beaten the subject to death and everyone has had the chance to weigh in. Time to make a decision and run it. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:11pm
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He does own an Acme. 1609 has .060 cup afternoon coffee? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:16pm
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Sorry, mixed up the 1609 and 1229. .020 difference between 543 and 1609 is a step in the right direction but it's a very, very small step. Still gonna leave you short of 4600 in all likelihood. Advice still stands. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:18pm
| Yeah guys thanks for all the imput I really appreciate it. I have learned so much. Im going to stop wasting your guys time on this one. Im going to give it a bit, try to sell the one I have and see what happens. I feel bad enough that my indecisiveness has costed ppl alot of typing. Ah i guess maybe you guys like doing that. anyways thanks again and I will report back if and when I get something new. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:34pm
| We eat this stuff up ha. No worries. I would like to see the Chevy at 4700-4800. Chevys like rpm. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:40pm
| We'd all like to see it at 4800. I'm just not sure physics is going to allow... |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 6:43pm
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Yeah I dont know. I dont like buying things without having a good feeling about it and this one is just got me stressed out. Maybe next year I could sell and get an outboard. I have about 10 buddies that have boats that are great and better than mine for salom (3- 97-2001 SN's) but as of now my boat goes the fastest so we dont have a good barefoot boat in the arsenal. If I bought an outboard I could never seriously slalom or trick ski. I do think the SN 176 with the efi motor in it would be the ticket for the best do it all boat. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 7:01pm
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Get a carb like Eddie said earlier. 280hp (plus??) in a 176 would be nice boat for you. What engines do those Nautiques have? |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 7:07pm
Where is Frankenotter, he keeps talking about upgrading to a late 90's Ski, Here you go Boozer, sell that 176 (no EFI) and move on up AND we don't want to hear anymore about your garage being too small!!! ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 7:11pm
| They come with the same motor as the 97 and up Sn do Im pretty sure. What do they have like 310hp or something. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 7:12pm
| Probably 310hp GT-40s..... and you think you've got room for improvement with your 260hp Chevy. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 7:14pm
i dont understand that last part. http://correctcraftfan.com/forsale/details.asp?ID=7971&sort=&pagenum=1 This would be really nice. I would just change the decals on the side to say ski nautique 176 so ppl dont think I wakeboard. |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 7:15pm
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Most 176's came with carb 260 hp but a few did find GT40's in them. I wouldn't completely rule out an outboard for slalom. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 7:25pm
I mean its doable and you could free ski forsure but no body I ski with would want to most are skiing 28-35off. Thats ok tho thats why they have boats. Right now Im just going to enjoy what I have for a bit. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 7:52pm
Mark (LLS) sold his inboard and bought one of these. He could never get the 1 or 2 extra MPH out of his inboard for footing and we're nowhere near the altitude!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 7:54pm
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2 words: tsc Python The gt40 tsc's can't muster any better than 41? That doesn't seem right. Those are 46mph boats closer to sea level. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 7:57pm
That is what I need but what I really need is a bf sanger with a 250 on it. And his has a 4blade on it. I told him if I sold my boat I would buy him a 3 blade and I would just foot off of it. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-05-2016 at 11:44pm
| Just borrowed my buddies spare prop which is a 13x12 oj. Maybe it will help. |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 1:14am
| Shoot here I go asking more questions a guy wants to trade me a OJ 13x11 .9 cup for my 541. Is that a good prop? or is Oj not as good? It is CNC. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 9:17am
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Oj doesn't offer any props in their xmp line in RH except for the few 1.23 props... So little experience exists on the 1:1 sized xmp's here. That said, ETS did a compare on the MC site between 13x12 CNC acme/Oj and the results were very close. Based on the dimensions, I'd be inclined to make the trade to the 13x11. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 10:52am
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Anyone else also still fuzzy on which brand, year, model boat and engine marinizarion we are speaking about? ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 11:02am
Tom, I'm always "fuzzy" so I too was wondering what boat we're talking about. I went back and did find it .
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 11:42am
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Because I have whined about it so much the boat was so far back haha. Its a 1994 American skier Tbx 350 merc 1:1 Wonder If I should call up eric at oj and see what he says. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 11:46am
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I'm not sure more opinions are going to help, you seem indecisive enough! I doubt Eric is going to tell you not to trade your Acme for an OJ. Is this OJ local? Try before you trade? I agree with Tim finally, I'm inclined to go for the 11" pitch over your 12". |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 11:56am
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Ok I'll jump in with the "fuzzy" guys here. What I'm fuzzy about is why you don't figure out what the boat had for performance when it was new and down in the flatlands then you can figure out what it realistically is capable of at altitude How are you gonna do that you ask? Pick up the phone and call the guy who has been more than a little familiar with American Skiers over the years. At different times he has worked there designing the boats or later on owned the company. You go to his website so you should be familiar with him since he's on it frequently. I'm sure he could tell you what it would do speed wise at sea level, what it has for an engine, what it's power was, whether that hull has lots of drag etc You're up 5000 ft so your power is down by about 15% to start with no matter what. Here's his number 985-542-4336, just ask for Ron You'll get a lot of good info on the phone actually talking to him. Good luck KenO |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 12:06pm
not according to someone on here who i won't name but it starts with T and ends with j. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 12:11pm
http://www.wallaceracing.com/braking-hp.php" rel="nofollow - Per the Wallace Racing engine HP/altitude calculator, it looks like 10% is a closer figure at 5000' ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: lcgordon
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 12:12pm
| I have talked to ron multiple times and he is an awesome person and is super knowledgeable about all DD boats in general. But he was the american skier lead engineer I believe up until 1990 then he owned the company from 96-01ish then it was bought and called Elan. The problem is my boat is a 94 and from 91-95 AMskier was owned by a company called WESMAR. The problem with that is there is no records at all of any of their boats, testing info or anything. Alot of the boats used different parts from another boat of the same model. So I could prop get info on the 96 and up tbx but by then they had made hull changes. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 12:12pm
| Engine has how many hours on it? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 12:20pm
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Pete Your math ain't too good. I went to your Wallace Racing Guide Plugged in 5280 ft and 260 hp at sea level and it spit out 41.1 as the power loss. How many percent is that? I'm a little fuzzy KenO |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 12:25pm
| @ 5000' it's spitting out 15% exactly |