Vinegar Flush Help
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40797
Printed Date: May-14-2024 at 11:28pm
Topic: Vinegar Flush Help
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Subject: Vinegar Flush Help
Date Posted: April-05-2017 at 11:40am
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I've posted this on a couple of other forums however word on the street is that THIS is where the REAL mechanics roam. 😉 True story. My issue? Well last summer I had an overheating problem that plagued me all season. Last season's threads: http://www.mbboatown...lp-overheating/ http://www.mbboatown...emp/#entry60382 2004 330hp Excalibur 5.7L I've narrowed the cause down to the exhaust manifold/risers. I'd like to try doing a full vinegar flush to see if that solves my issues before taking the whole exhaust manifold apart and dealing with that potential chaos. (I'm NOT a mechanic... also not an idiot... but not a mechanic) Side note: my mechanic cannot figure out the issue either... he's top shelf. Unfortunately he charges top shelf prices as well. $$$ He and I checked/replaced everything up to the exhaust last season so I know there are no issues with wrong/faulty parts up to the exhaust. My question... cuz I'm crazy paranoid... is how exactly, step by itty bitty step, do I do it? I'll be doing it myself with no help so the more info you guys can lend the better my odds of success. I'd also like to post a detailed thread complete with video/photos after (unless it already exists) for others like myself so they don't need to go through what I'm currently going through at the moment. so... -what holes do I open... -what holes do I close... -what holes do i pour into... -particular type of vinegar... -how much vinegar, how much water... -fake a lake or no fake a lake... -what parts do I remove... -what parts do I replace... -how long do i do it... -how will i know if it works... -warning signs, things to watch out for... -run engine, don't run engine... -warn the neighbors of potential stink cloud... -etc. These are the questions that keep me up at night. Please help with advice, wisdom, links, photos, videos, wise cracks/comments etc... I'll take anything cuz my family's happiness this summer depends on it! My boy, only 9yrs old is counting on his father to come through. My teenage daughter is counting on her father to be the "coolest" dad ever. My wife, well, I fear that no boat for the summer may be a deal breaker for her. No pressure, but a warning that I'll be blame shifting onto everyone else but me if I can't get this solved for my wife and kids. Just sayin'. Thanks in advance. Dave |
Replies:
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-05-2017 at 11:49am
| The links you posted documenting your issues do not work. |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: April-05-2017 at 11:58am
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Hey Dave, welcome!! Before you Massengil that poor engine let's look at a few things: I read the other threads and we should probably just start over here. Did you replace the original strainer (hopefully not with the one that was posted)? Checklist of things to do: Check impeller condition, if OK leave it in. Clean strainer screen and be sure you still have the rubber gasket at cup Tighten every hose clamp, use a 5/16 nut driver not a screw driver Remove the large brass plugs from the exhaust manifolds and clean out any debris you can Then report back Corrected Links: http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.php/topic/4688-help-overheating/" rel="nofollow - http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.php/topic/4688-help-overheating/ http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.php/topic/4813-2004-pcm-57l-excalibur-330-mfi-running-temp/#entry60382" rel="nofollow - http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.php/topic/4813-2004-pcm-57l-excalibur-330-mfi-running-temp/#entry60382 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: April-05-2017 at 11:59am
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http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.php/topic/4688-help-overheating/" rel="nofollow - fixed link #1 http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.php/topic/4813-2004-pcm-57l-excalibur-330-mfi-running-temp/#entry60382" rel="nofollow - fixed link #2 Vinegar flush? Does that come with fish and chips? |
Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: April-05-2017 at 12:06pm
| I'm not familiar with that engine but is it possible that he routed the serpentine belt incorrectly? Also, what caused it to get so chewed up in the first place? |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: April-05-2017 at 12:15pm
Same motor as in my 206, belt routing looks correct, if any doubt there is a little diagram right there on the motor. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-05-2017 at 12:34pm
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I read both threads quickly, it sounded like a comedy of errors with several different failure modes happening at different times- giving the appearance that they were related by a common cause... but I suspect you have/had MULTIPLE issues that you were trying to troubleshoot concurrently, leading you down wrong paths. Here are a few things to remember: -160 stat will have you running a fairly steady 170-180 if all is well. - an overhead at idle (normal temps at speed) is likely due to an air leak between the rwp and through hull. Hose condition, hose connections, strainer bowl are all things to look at here. - an overheat at speed (normal temps at idle) is going to be due to lack of flow. Impeller condition, rwp installed/spinning backwards, bad rwp seals, or a blockage in the system will cause this failure mode. With all the attention given to the cooling system I *think* you moved from one failure mode to the other, i.e., you solved one problem and caused another. Describe for us the exact nature of your overheating situation NOW, ignoring what you saw in the past. Consider me very skeptical that the exhaust manifolds are to blame. |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-05-2017 at 1:29pm
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Now this is some help! Win! Thank you. I'm off to work presently but will answer all of these replies later today . |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 10:19am
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How you douching on this ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 10:32am
| I've never heard of using vinegar on a boat, but will it cure a stinky bilge better than Simple Green? |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 10:41am
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Well the idea of cleaning out the manifolds has some merit, maybe only to me because i did just that. I used 'The works' toilet cleaner. I closed off all ports & sloshed it around, let it work for an hour. The manifold was off the engine, of course (I had them off for valve seal work).. A lot of crud came out when I dumped it. I don't think doing this with vinegar, while manifold is still on the engine will accomplish much. If you think the manifolds are clogged, maybe just hook a garden hose up to the raw water port & see if they flow OK. Edit - Just occurred to me this problem sounds similar to a friend's. He has a 'toon with mercruiser GM V6 not very old. It was overheating. I got involved because his mechanic gave up on it (PIA to work on) I took 1 riser off & clean as a whistle inside. I then hooked up garden hose to hose that connects to manifold & back flushed. Now instead of pegging, it goes a little hot then stettles down. I think sand was /still is in the thermostat housing passages. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 11:49am
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When inboards and inboard mechanics could be easily found here in south Florida they would give the manifolds and risers a bath in muriatic acid when they would have trouble,In the salt the best they ever lasted was around 7 years anyway. Maybe running some water in them from the front water hose inlet thru to the back with the plug removed would help,but catch the water that comes out and see it there is any sediment coming out. Vinegar IMOH would be a waste of time. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 6:21pm
| Gary, or anyone else here.... has anyone made stainless steel manifolds for saltwater applications? Alternatively has anyone tried metallic barrier coatings for manifolds (the oil patch uses high phosphorus electroless nickel plating for brine applications to prevent corrosion from seawater.)? |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 6:22pm
| What about just the risers? |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 6:34pm
There are several Pete,Commander made them, Stainless Marine is another and of course Hi Tek. I am in the process of testing out a pair on my Shamrock  For what they cost I could have bought 3 sets of PCM ones but that would only give me about 15 years of service. So far after 2 years the Hi Teks don't even have a mark on them. A great advantage with them is that they fit exactly the same as the PCM ones. If I had found a set of Commanders my battery tray would have needed to be removed and something to do with them figured out. I would love to have them for the Nautique just for the looks but due to fitment it makes plugs hard to get at.  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 6:38pm
| Gary--any issues with hose/manifold crevice corrosion? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 6:45pm
I can say no since it occurs between metal surfaces and the hose is rubber! The common place for it is at the prop shaft to the trans coupling when the alignment is off. The interference between the two is under load and constantly flexing. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
tryathlete wrote:Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 7:04pm
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Rubber hose and stainless are known to be bad together in terms of corrosion. From an bold "yacht survey" blog "Neither of us like it when the experts make big mistakes. Like attaching a carbon rubber hose to a stainless riser. Carbon rubber and stainless are like cats and dogs; they do not get along, and the rubber always wins. That rubber will eat the stainless right up, and it will leak like crazy." |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 8:00pm
Pete, You need to remove the word "fretting"! BTW, rubber on 400 series isn't the greatest but on 300, it's fine. Your yacht survey people must be using inferior "muffler" stainless!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 8:03pm
| Nobody would use 400 Series in seawater. Yeah it's not fretting it's intergeanular or something along those linea but I'd have to go back and relearn something useless to figure that out. |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 8:07pm
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It's crevice corrosion I was recalling. It's described here; Maybe better defined here; https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/25077/SGNO78.pdf?sequence=1 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 10:05pm
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You need crack cream ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-06-2017 at 11:15pm
| No that stuff is for old people 😂 |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 12:48am
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Rubber corrodes too - there is a even a spec on it. Gates invented a corrosion resistant hose.back in the 90s. Now hoses pretty much last the life of a car. From Gates web page: Molded Coolant Hose Factory molded to fit specific applications. Similar to OEM specifications. Approved for marine applications. • Engineered to resist electrochemical degradation – the leading cause of hose failure ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 6:33am
Careful with the old people reference. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 9:11am
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Gary, Now that is a CLASS ACT!! Very nice. Duane------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 11:06am
| Another question: replacement exhaust hose... best prices/place/brand to get them? |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 11:31am
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I would highly recommend figuring out what your issue(s) are before you start throwing parts at it. Have you checked some of the items mentioned above yet? SkiDim and NautiqueParts are 2 sources, at NP use the discount code PND for 10% off ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 12:12pm
David, weren't you going to post details of the overheating problem later on? As people have mentioned, it's likely a cooling system issue that can be diagnosed once you explain more about when it overheats. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 3:46pm
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Having read your threads on MB boat owners and Planet Nautique and here on this issue, one thing that jumps right out at me is that somebody named YOU caused the problem unless there's something you haven't mentioned. I think you know that though. You did routine maintenance replacing a 4 inch long hose between the strainer and trans cooler, replaced the well worn serpentine belt and replaced the impeller.......and then the overheating started Here's a cut and paste from your post on this issue on 7/31/16 on MB Boat Owners Hey guys. Please help. I did some routine maintenance yesterday... Replaced the 4" length hose between my raw water filter and tranny cooler... new impeller and new belt. Tested with a fake a lake setup to ensure all was well. Ran it a good 10-15 min with no issues. Took it out on the lake today and BAM... overheated as soon as I opened her up... actually only half throttle. Smoke but couldn't tell where it was coming from exactly. Horrible rubber smell. No visible damage and once it cooled it cranked right up and sounded good. I shut it down quickly after starting. Checked the intake, hose and filter and all is clear of debris. Doesn't appear water is getting in. I'd be looking at the water pump again, take it off the engine and get a real good look at it. Being a V Drive changing the impeller isn't the easiest job to do in the location it's in |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 4:00pm
| Not throwing parts... one of the hoses burst last season due to the overheating. Need to replace it and since it's looking more and more like I'll have to pull the risers that would be the time to do it. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 4:05pm
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David, Ken's copy and paste brings up some interesting facts. First, is a fake a lake or a direct hose connection is not a way to test the cooling system. The pressure from the hose overcomes problems such as a non working RWP. Yes, take a look at the RWP again. Did you use an OEM impeller? The Sierra made impellers have been known to not work! Overheats to the point of smelling burnt rubber can also be an indication of delaminated exhaust hose. The inner layer of rubber folds in on itself. Check it. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 4:29pm
I completely own it. I hope nothing I said came across as an attempted blame shift somehow. I'm pretty sure my cheapskate alter-ego saying "it's easy routine stuff, don't pay a mechanic to do it" is what got me into this trouble to begin with. You make a valid point... and it's got me thinking. I know I installed the impeller the correct way initially and that there was good water flow out of the pipes in my driveway. I was following the advice from a good half dozen forums on replacing the impeller and was overly cautious. However, it's completely reasonable that if I didn't tighten something enough or missed something else, that I damaged the water pump. The impeller was definitely chewed up after that overheat. My question is... if I damaged the water pump back in the beginning why would it perform just fine (even now) during fake-a-lake driveway idling but fail out on the water? Isn't a failing pump a failing pump regardless? I get great flow out of the pipes as confirmed by my mechanic when he came to check it all out last season. |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 4:32pm
I'm not sure what else I can add other than from my posts from last season that I linked to and what I've said here on this post. Was I too vague? |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 4:36pm
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Ken's post got me thinking also, on the impeller pump there is clearly a mark that says TOP, check to make sure it is in fact, on TOP. You probably need to clarify what fake a lake means to you, is it a fake-a-lake plunger device below the boat, that strainer you posted a pic of in the other thread or putting your intake house in a bucket full of water, seem to recall you mentioning bucket in the other thread?? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 4:54pm
Love new tidbits of information! I haven't heard the delaminated exhaust hose theory yet. Interesting. That might explain why one side blew a hole. However that may have been caused by the original overheat and not the original cause. Impeller(s) have all been OEM part # replacements from skidim. I will elaborate on my fake-a-lake: I initially read enough negative posts back when I bought the boat to know that the correct way to run the engine on land and test flow is by using a tub rather than direct hose thereby forcing the pump to suck the water rather than forcing it into the intake via pressure. I had a 30 gallon plastic water tank on hand so I made my own. Big time overkill to the point of embarrassment. The engine doesn't even come close to running that tank dry but it made me feel better knowing that it wasn't the weakest link in the chain. When I initially set it up and every time since I've gotten good flow each and every time so I know for sure that the RWP is doing something. |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 5:00pm
Impeller installed correctly... positive + mechanic confirmed it afterwards. BIG ASS BUCKET! Big time overkill. My fake-a-lake is pretty much the only thing that I'm 100% confident and solid on regarding this boat. |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 5:04pm
| Side note guys... Gotta say I really appreciate all of this help! Waiting on the weather to improve here so I can get started. |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 5:31pm
I didn't say impeller, I said pump, when replacing the face of the pump it can be installed at the wrong rotation/orientation, that is why the word TOP is stamped on it. Trust me, I have serviced that pump dozens of times on my boat and have almost reinstalled incorrectly more than once. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 5:42pm
| I've learned all about combinations and permutations from my raw water pump. It's already a yoga exercise for me to change the impeller. I only do it every 100 hours or so now. |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 5:48pm
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replacing v-drive RWP impellers is just not as fun as direct drive, but it's something you get used to. When you get it on the lake make sure you check to make sure the one hose didn't collapse internally as designed to do when big time overheat occurs. I hope you have good fortune and nail this down quickly and logically. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-07-2017 at 8:22pm
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Just out of curiosity what's the PCM part number for the impeller? There's a lot of brainpower on this site that could probably help you come up with a good sounding reason that this is all your wife's fault one way or another I figure you had a 33% chance of getting the housing on with TOP on the top like Quinner mentioned, maybe it will be as easy as that, |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-08-2017 at 12:11pm
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Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-08-2017 at 12:43pm
Impeller part # RP061022 From manual keeping in mind their warning on faulty aftermarket parts and to make sure they're genuine. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-08-2017 at 3:35pm
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[ [/QUOTE] I haven't opened up the pump yet... but I will certainly pay close attention to that.[/QUOTE] You don't have to open up the pump, just look at the top of it and TOP is cast into the top of the bearing housing. If it's on right you'll be able to see the lettering. If it's on wrong, you won't see the word TOP This picture shows a Crusader (PCM) pump pirated from the internet with the words TOP showing. It's a pump that's similar to yours, uses a lot of the same parts including the same impeller You'd think they would make the thing people proof and have the three bolts spaced so it could only be assembled one way after replacing the impeller 
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-09-2017 at 9:50am
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This quote was from a couple of days ago talking about maybe your last overheat. (Beginning of quote) The impeller was definitely chewed up after that overheat. My question is... if I damaged the water pump back in the beginning why would it perform just fine (even now) during fake-a-lake driveway idling but fail out on the water? Isn't a failing pump a failing pump regardless? I get great flow out of the pipes as confirmed by my mechanic when he came to check it all out last season. (end of quote) I figure, just to keep you off the vinegar kick, I'll point out that a chewed up impeller doesn;t happen because you have cruddy exhaust that needs cleaning. But.........a chewed up impeller due to let's say, improper assembly gets worse with every revolution it makes till it's degraded to the point where it no longer is pumping enough to keep the engine or manifolds cool. So.......stay off the juice and look at the pump like mentioned before |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-09-2017 at 10:05am
And, running it dry. The impeller relies on water for a lubricate. It doesn't take much time to degrade without water. Any chance the engine was run without water even briefly? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-09-2017 at 12:24pm
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Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-09-2017 at 12:52pm
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So my wife and I chatted last night about this. We're "thinking about" possibly putting this on a credit card. NOT what I want to do but to be perfectly honest I'm concerned I'll only make this worse. I'm also not sure if I should use the same mechanic I've been using (he comes to the house) or go to a shop. Anyone live near Auburn Ca and/or Sacramento that has any recommendations? An honest shop that caters to the blue collar "regular guy"? Back Story: I don't have money to burn. Where other folks go on vacations during the year and ALSO go out on the boat... This boat IS our summer vacations. Boating goes back 3 generations in my family... it's in our DNA. And my limited experiences with boat shops so far have been that they overcharge and take their time. (My experience) So one... it's extremely important for me to get this fixed. Two... I don't have the resources to have a shop spend weeks and a couple grand figuring it out. I know... then don't own a boat. |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: April-09-2017 at 1:27pm
I've made the mistake of installing the pump in upside down. Easy mistake to make. I use the hose method with forced water, so it didn't cost me a fried impeller. I learned after that and now my pump has UP and an arrow pointing up to help me remember. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: April-09-2017 at 2:17pm
When it comes to Correct Craft boats the experts on this site are more knowledgeable than any mechanic that you will find. Let them help you by doing what they ask you to do and then provide accurate feedback. Even if you have to throw a few parts at it you will still be way ahead financially. |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-09-2017 at 3:07pm
That gives me some confidence. Thank you. UPDATE: I just looked up a video I took of me installing the impeller the first time. I did in fact pay attention to the "UP" and installed it correctly. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-09-2017 at 6:16pm
The impeller had been run dry. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-09-2017 at 7:05pm
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Dave There's a PM in your inbox |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-12-2017 at 10:10pm
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Hi Dave I was thinking about your issues and one thought that popped into my head as something else to check was your circulating pump on the engine if you think your raw water pump is working as it should. That's the circulating pump, not the raw water pump. Same belt drives both, but it would be relatively easy to remove the belt and spin the circulating pump by hand. It should spin smooth and very easy with no funny noises or wobble on the shaft. If it had bad bearings it could have been what made your belt start fraying. If they were real bad you'd hear some metallic scraping noises. you could check that the alternator spins free and easily too. Like I said, just a thought and easy to check edit I see it was mentioned on PN a while back but don't know if you checked it, |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-12-2017 at 11:24pm
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Good idea Ken. I had to change my Shamrocks pump due to a seal leak,a PO had used an automotive pump. Although I had no cooling symptoms or issues most of the impeller fins had rusted off from saltwater use. I doubt thats his trouble but I have heard of the impellers spinning on the shafts. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-13-2017 at 9:13am
This one was an Indmar 5.7 Chevy, picture was stolen from the Mastercraft website  And here's a thread from CCF also about an Indmar but I bet they all get their circ water pumps from GM when they buy the engines from them http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40015&title=replace-water-pump-or-not-on-2008-with-1100-hours" rel="nofollow - CCF thread The end result of these broken impellers was overheating and there were recalls to replace pumps. Don't know about PCM issues/recalls but I bet it makes some noise if you rotate it by hand if it looks like these. That shaft might spin smoothly with no noise and you'd actually have to take the pump off the engine and take the plate off the pump and inspect it |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-13-2017 at 9:50am
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Looks like PCM had issues too.See link below from Ball of Spray. Particularly Jody's posts http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/6983/how-do-you-diagnose-a-failed-water-pump-vs-thermostat" rel="nofollow - Ball of Spray link And here's the service update bulletin mentioned in Jody's post http://www.pleasurecraft.com/ServiceUpdate/SUP2012-03%205.7L%20Circulation%20Pump.pdf" rel="nofollow - bulletin I think this issue was a while after Dave's 2004 engine was made, but it wouldn't hurt to check the circ water pump since it could happen to any pump over time |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-13-2017 at 11:46am
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Thanks again guys... I'm just anxious to get started. The weather here won't clear up and I do not want to start this with the distraction of pouring rain and wind. I've decided I'm going to start at the intake... check every single point for good flow, seal, blockage, cracks, failed parts etc... and work my way to the exhaust. Too much hunting and pecking has been done at this point. I'll be posting photos along the way so you all can hopefully catch any stupid human tricks I may perform. Question: since I'll be pulling all cooling parts to check them anyway should I be replacing all of those gaskets as well along the way? Also, aside from changing out the impeller and thermostat (which are cheap anyway) are there any other parts you think I should just go ahead and replace regardless if they're in good shape or not? Sensors, pumps etc? If, for example, say the circ pumps eventually fail anyway it seems logical to just replace it while it's all opened up. Or is that total overkill and I'd just be throwing parts at it? ;) |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-13-2017 at 11:55am
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btw... I ask because I'm ordering parts this week so I'm ready to go when the weather clears. The list feels small to me for some reason. So far the new parts list is: Impeller kit Thermostat + gasket Riser gaskets (in case I find myself having to remove the risers as previously discussed) Riser Exhaust hoses |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: April-13-2017 at 12:28pm
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Dave, Here is the list you really need to follow: Read the thread and follow the recommendations BEFORE YOU ORDER ANYTHING!!! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: April-14-2017 at 10:43am
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Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 12:24am
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missing link?
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Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: June-04-2017 at 11:50am
| Quick update: my mechanic and I decided to start at the exhaust and work forward. Pulled every part and inspected parts & hoses. Not ONE indication of any blockage anywhere. Baffling! One of the riser bolts snapped flush with the manifold due to high corrosion so we're waiting until Monday to fix that little hiccup. Replaced circ pump just in case since we were already doing a deep dive into the cooling system. We'll finish our hunt when the manifold issue is fixed and we can start her up.. More to come. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-04-2017 at 2:04pm
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Good to hear back Do you think you could take a picture of the internals of the original circulating pump if you still have it? Only a handful of little bolts to take the plate off the back of it. |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: June-04-2017 at 4:48pm
| Mechanic took a photo for me. I emailed it to you as this site isn't allowing me to upload from my phone. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-04-2017 at 5:57pm
 Here it is, looking OK from this view, you'd probably destroy it trying to get the impeller off the shaft. Looks a lot better than the 2 piece one in an earlier photo I seem to be able to see the end of every impeller blade in the photo Looks like a good spare if nothing else. |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: June-04-2017 at 8:48pm
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Thanks for posting the photo Keno! So no magic bullet huh? Bummer. Kinda hoping I'd hear "well THERES yer problem!". |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: June-11-2017 at 12:06pm
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UPDATE and TEMP GUAGE HELP Result: NO SMOKING GUN! On the up side my cooling system looks great... down side, we couldn't find any obstructions or bad parts at all that would cause overheating. Since we were already doing a deep dive I replaced the circ pump, thermostat and impeller just in case. WHAT WE DID FIND: While testing the temperature sending unit he told me it was working normal but that my gauge was giving bad readings. His test notes: ---------------- "Ran boat @ idle for 10min" Actual Gauge 119 150 151 180 154 200 Stabilized, sending unit is 128.6 ohms 140 deg should be 121-147 ohms, this looks like a bad dash gauge. ---------------- Ohms and such are out of my wheelhouse so any thoughts/suggestions are appreciated as always. |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: June-15-2017 at 11:10am
| Anyone?... Bueller?... Bueller? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-15-2017 at 12:05pm
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It's his day off today Maybe you unknowingly fixed the problem somewhere along the way or at least I hope you did since normal temps don't melt exhaust hoses etc. like what happened to you in the beginning.. I'd use an infra red gun and check temps or get a capillary tube type temp gauge and temporarily put it in place of your electrical sending unit and see what you have for readings. Sounds like right now all you can do is run it and check temperature. I think Bueller is getting ready to take the Ferrari for a ride right about now.
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Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: June-15-2017 at 12:17pm
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If you've proven out that your gauge is wrong and are going to replace it, and you've proven out and replaced potential problem parts, here's what I'd do next. Run it on the trailer with a "timmy T" feeding it water. Don't use other methods, the beauty of the T is that the engine takes the water it needs, and can pull, without anything pressurizing the water feed. That way you are as close to being in the lake as you can get. Run it to verify good water flow out the exhaust, more as you move the rpm up to maybe 1,500 or so. Run it for a good long time at 1,000 rpm and see if any spots on the engine or manifolds get too hot. If you have proper water flow coming out the exhaust and no hot spots on the manifolds then I don't have a clue what problem remains. There of course is no way to put a load on the engine so there's only so much heat it can generate. But if you had a melting hose problem I'd think you'd find a hot spot like that even running on the trailer. Good luck Ferris. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: June-18-2017 at 12:07pm
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Ok guys test results are in... drum roll... Purring like a kitten on catnip! She ran better and cooler than she has since I bought her. Took her out to Bullards Bar yesterday and checked temps using my IR gun. Temp was extremely stable at 150deg all day. Did I fix the problem end of last season not knowing it because my faulty gauge told me otherwise? Or did replacing the circ pump, manifold and exhaust hose clear things up? Unfortunately looks like I'm never going to know for sure what exactly caused her to overheat. Now to have my gauge repaired. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-18-2017 at 12:22pm
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Obviously the fix was as a result of something your wife suggested Just tell her that and keep her happy. If you're not melting hoses, you fixed something somewhere along the way. Good job |
Posted By: LiquidObsession
Date Posted: June-18-2017 at 12:35pm
| Best advice received thus far!!! 👍🏻 |