Shaft Alignment
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40858
Printed Date: April-28-2024 at 12:50pm
Topic: Shaft Alignment
Posted By: Frankenotter
Subject: Shaft Alignment
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 12:13am
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Ok, so I was falsely hoping that my new shaft would arrive and it would just drop into place with no fuss. That's not the case. I removed the rudder to get it out of the way. With that gone, the shaft sits to the port side of the log naturally. I can move it starboard and center it inside the log with a little pressure. If I push it up to the trans coupler, I can see that the port side has more than .003" gap from the feeler gauge.   So, I have a couple questions for tomorrow's attempt at getting this aligned. 1. If it takes pressure to center the shaft in the log, does that mean the strut is bent? 2. Is the alignment based on the results of putting the couplers together without the nuts and reading the gap, or is it based on the shaft resting naturally in the log? (does that make sense? 3. How the hell do I move this engine? I tried loosening the lock nuts, kroil, a bottle jack, prybar, and praying. I cant get the thing to budge. Ive done everything short of pulling the engine and I cant get it to move.  Sigh.......... ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Replies:
Posted By: OldSchoolBlue84
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 12:43am
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Seeing deja vu as I am currntly doing the exact same thing with my new ARE  The drive shaft should be centered in the log naturally without any pressure. You may have a slightly bent strut. The strut could be tweaked while still attached to the boat but probably frown upon on how to achieve straightness  .... . Good luck ------------- Kostas http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6700&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1984 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 12:44am
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I removed the adjustment part from the eng/tranny to be able to work on the shop table. Mine took heat from torch and petes home brew to get them to move. I will say when I started I didn't think they were worthy of salvage. A little time proved otherwise. It also made the alignment much easier. Can the strut be aligned first so as to make it fit the thru hull fitting better? |
Posted By: SWANY
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 12:55am
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Number 1-Alignment all starts at the log. If the shaft isn't center in the log, the strut needs to be loosened and moved or shimmed to make the shaft "happy" in the log. Think of it as it all starts in the middle of everything. Number 2- once you get number one good then put the nuts on, but leave a measurable gap with the feeler gauge. Can be whatever on your starting side across from that side can't/shouldn't be more or less than .03 more than your starting number. Number 3- I'm not expert but I'll I can say is go work out more  and pull harder.Good luck. A lot of reading in old threads helped me tons |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 3:00am
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So how does one align a shaft while on the boat? ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 8:10am
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Hey Chris, sorry to hear of your woes. Good advice above. Best to loosen the strut & get shaft centered in log. If you are applying pressure it is in a bind. I would remove 3 of the 4 screws & then see how much you need to twist it to get shaft centered. You may have to egg out the holes a little. If the holes are misaligned more than 1/16 in, I would get the strut straightened. Get a jack under the manifold & remove each adjuster, maybe 1 at a time, & get them to move freely on the bench. Some one recently posted a technique of spanning the gunnels with boards & using that as a support, Probably safer than jacking the manifold. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 8:41am
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Chris, All I'd like to add to the great advice above is the shaft doesn't need to be perfectly centered in the log. If I had to give you a figure, I'd say get it within a 1/16". Then, if the strut and log isn't kicked port or starboard, the engine will end up sitting pretty centered. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 1:47pm
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thanks guys. should I 4200 the strut plate when doing a final mount? ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 2:25pm
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Chris, Yes, 4200 is a good choice. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 3:53pm
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What is the preferred method of removing old 4200 without scratching the gel in the strut port? ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 4:44pm
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Chris I found this on another site: Re: Clean-up of 3M 4200 and 5200 This is the proper product. 3M 08984 General purpose adhesive cleaner. http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_general_purpose.cfm# Buy it at a automotive paint store, Don't buy it at West Marine. You will save $7 to $8 on a qt. A qt will last a long time. It has a little spout that goes on the can. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 4:46pm
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Chris, I sure wouldn't worry about scratching the gel. It's going to get covered up with the strut base.  Scrape and sand the old bedding compound off. Chances are it's not a polyurethane so it should come off real easy. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: OldSchoolBlue84
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 5:14pm
I used mineral spirit. Soaked the strut base and bolts in a pan. Worked like a charm! ------------- Kostas http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6700&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1984 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Frankenotter wrote:Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-15-2017 at 5:34pm
| Now we're talking experience! |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 12:54pm
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Here is the result of centering the shaft in the log. It looks like the entire engine needs to shuffle laterally to port. Would you guys agree?  This is the pic of the current configuration attached to the coupler. You can see the shaft is on the right side of the log by about 1/8".  I'm planning to tackle the engine mounts tomorrow and I'd be curious to see if you guys agree with the assessment before i go for it. There is one bolt on the starboard / aft/ lower trans attach point that is basically impossible to get a tool on. Any ideas for that bad boy? Chris ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 1:25pm
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Chris, That's quite a distance to move the engine. Check your strut location. Measure from the chine on each side to the shaft to see if it's centered. Does it at all look bent or leaning towards starboard? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: OldSchoolBlue84
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 1:46pm
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Chris, the current motor mounts, is the engine centered in between them? Maybe the previous owner made some adjustments and now since the drive shaft is centered, your having your engine/coupler misalignment. Just a thought. ------------- Kostas http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6700&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1984 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 2:04pm
I'm just getting an education here. Pete--so the packing seal allows for some misalignment as it's somewhat tolerant to off-center location? If the shaft goes through the packing off center by 1/16" that is ok? |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 3:50pm
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I wasn't doing all of the above tests by myself so I couldn't see what was happening to the strut as I did this. Tomorrow I'll have a helper and check it again. I left one srew in the shaft to use as a pivot, but maybe it got caught in something. I'll check the strut for straightness with some squares when I take it off. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 4:02pm
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Ok I must be going crazy. I realized the strut was in my truck so I just checked it on the bench. Is there bias built into these or is this thing bent like a politician? 90 degree machinist square with a .550" gauge block.  Other side with the same setup  I must be missing something because how could the boat even run with that much deviation? ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 4:15pm
| It the base is flat on the table then I would say yes the strut is tweeked. Any measureable deviation from fron of log to back or is that similar on both sides? Which would mean it is only bent to one side and at least not twisted and bent. Sure seems fixable. |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 5:32pm
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While you have it off, go ahead and install a new Cutlass Bearing if you had not planned on doing it already. You should not need another one for many years if you do it now with that new shaft. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens 2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 7:36pm
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Has anyone successfully straightened a strut? If so, how? Donald the cutlass is already replaced. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 7:45pm
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I have,sent it in to a prop repair place. You might want to check with a local or send it into Delta. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 7:47pm
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Thanks Gary. I don't want to tell you what I tried to straighten the promo strut. It didn't work. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 7:55pm
| I'd use Fox Lake Propeller in Spring Grove, IL. for the strut straightening. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 8:42pm
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Chris - I fixed one myself. I was lucky to have a friend with a fixture to hold it. Otherwise would be very difficult to hold it solid & push on it with a jack. I recommend farming this out. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12867&title=strut-straightening" rel="nofollow - Strut Straighten ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-16-2017 at 10:09pm
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Chris, I just got off work and found you did some strut measuring. All I can say is yup, it's bent! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-17-2017 at 9:47pm
Chris that's a really cool setup you have there. I'm tempted to make one just to have in the future. Peter Eader, fox lake was closed today. I have the strut for the promo that I might take to them if I don't try it myself. For what it's worth, I called a ton of prop shops and marinas today. 80% of them thought I was crazy and didn't think a strut could be straightened. 10% thought they could try it but it would be expensive and not garunteed to be straight. The last 10% had insane requests like shimming the engine and re drilling the motor mounts. One guy said he could fix it but it wasn't worth his time unless he could do more work to my boat. I guess all I need to do is go break something so I can take it to him and allow him to rip me off? I ended up sending it to Delta Propeller (site sponsor) They knew what I wanted right away and said they can do it for $65 in one week. Done. Just a heads up, he said we (CCF) no longer get the 10% discount. Chris ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-17-2017 at 10:47pm
| Time for another site sponsor? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-18-2017 at 12:00am
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Careful measuring off the edge of the base, those castings are very rough. Bolt holes are a better reference, I've seen the base off by almost 1/4". Remember that forcing the shaft into the center of the log doesn't mean squat. You need to judge where the shaft spins easily and align the powertrain to that point. The packing is attached with a flexible hose, don't forget- alignment at the log doesn't have to be perfect, but strut and powertrain need to line up. |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-18-2017 at 1:26am
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Thanks tim! Yea it certainly wasn't happy in the log and I had to put some pressure on the shaft to get it centered. It must have been a perfect storm of misalignment with all the old gear that allowed it to run. I made a wooden V-block to support the shaft when the strut comes back. I plan to 1.Attach the strut loosely with one bolt 2.Let the shaft center in the log 3.4200 the strut back into position and tighten the bolts 4. Align the engine to the shaft 5.Run the boat into rocks on the first outing. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-18-2017 at 6:36am
 Looks like TRB understands castings. ie. Casting was qualified for machining using the OD of the cutlass bearing bore in order to keep wall thickness consistent, then they aligned the fin part vertical. Didn't matter where the .rectangular portion ended up. Holes are in line with fin c/l and cutlass bore. Time = $$ in machining------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-18-2017 at 7:04am
Exactly regarding measuring castings plus I'd like to add that I wouldn't trust Tim's idea of using the location of the holes. Both are the reason I mentioned this after seeing Chris's pictures of the shaft to trans coupling.
Chris, Why did you remove the strut from the boat? Did you measure as suggested? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-18-2017 at 11:49am
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I removed it for two reasons. 1. The shaft was resting unnaturally far port with no outside force. 2. You could actually see the bend in the strut visually by looking closely. I cleaned up the schmoo from the mounting surface of the strut and took several measurements from many different spots. There was a slight tweak in the alignment as well as a noticeable lean to one side. Plus, it explains the extreme deviation in the pictures above. There was not enogh play in the engine mount to correct for the gap. Pete I didn't get a chance to measure like you said because I had already removed the strut by the time I ready your post. If the strut gets returned in the same condition I sent it out, I will have learned a $65 lesson. I don't think that will be the case but we'll find out in a week. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-18-2017 at 12:37pm
Chris, Just to recap, when the strut comes back, washers to shim its base may still be needed. Just start the alignment at the strut by dry fitting it so the shaft is roughly centered in the log and happy in the cutlass. Keep us informed. Were there any washers under the strut when you removed it? Shims were common back then. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-18-2017 at 3:15pm
| Think of the strut as 3 components: bore, web and flange. The bore holds the cutlass bearing. The flange attaches the the strut assembly to the hull. The web connects the bore and flange. It does not need to be perfectly straight. It doesn't need to straight at all! |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-20-2017 at 1:39pm
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Just got a call back from Delta. He told me the strut was bent lateral AND twisted. And also to clarify a comment I made before about Delta not giving the CCF discount, apparently we still get the 10% for props and specific items but NOT services. I know the cutlass bearing is also not a discounted item. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-20-2017 at 5:15pm
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Chris - Your boat is very lucky to have been rescued by you! It is going to run like a sewing machine with all these straight parts. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-20-2017 at 7:06pm
And? Can they fix it? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-21-2017 at 12:05am
Thanks Chris. I still owe it all to you. Gary they fixed it and it's in the mail. ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-21-2017 at 12:20am
Great Chris  I was worried they called to tell you bad news ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-24-2017 at 12:52pm
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So the followup / culmination of the project happened yesterday. I got the strut back from delta and losely bolted it to the hull. Right away the shaft fell centered in the log. I cut a small wooden V-block so I could keep it in position for the next step. I got an engine hoist and a chain attached to the aft/left side of the engine instead of using a bottle jack. I had a few bottle jacks available, but none small enogh to fit under the exhaust manifold. The left engine mount was a piece of cake. All the bolts were exposed and easily accessible. Once I got it out of the boat, I put it in a bench vice and gave it some love with a ball peen. It broke free in 2 wacks. Oiled everything up and put it back in without and trouble. The aft/right side mount is considerably harder to get to. The top attach bolt is no problem, but the bottom is insane. We ended up using a little stubby 5/8ths, a section of pipe, and a big a$$ hammer to break it loose. Then I used the stubby wrench to turn the bolt about a 1/16th of a turn at a time. Once freed, it was the same song different verse. Everything went back into the boat nice and loose with the shaft still resting in the V-block. I tightened up the strut to the hull without 4200 to see how the alignment looked. There was slightly more than a .003" gap at the top of the coupler. I used the vertical adjustment jack screws to bring it down 1/4 turn. This put it right in the sweet spot with no gaps. Lastly, I took the strut off and used the 4200 on the mounting plate. Checked the alignment one more time and then snugged the strut bolts to cure. Everything nice and straight with a brand new ARE shaft...........life is good. On a side note, I can't even imagine doing all of this while trying to install a red hot interference coupler. ARE shafts seem to be the way to go. I wish I could have gotten some pics but my phone is totally full and won't let me take anymore. Chris ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-24-2017 at 1:11pm
| Interference couplers are for the birds. The ARE in my brothers boat is likely the smoothest boat I've ever driven. Good work Chris. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-24-2017 at 1:46pm
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Chris, Excellent! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-24-2017 at 1:55pm
| Now I know you fly straight and drive straight. That boatnis gonna be smoother than an Airbus on a cool winter morning with no crosswind. |
Posted By: Frankenotter
Date Posted: April-24-2017 at 10:56pm
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Thanks gents! Again it all started with replacing the cutlass and here we are at the end of the rabbit hole. That's why this forum rocks. Come on over to Milwaukee and ski the 176 with the A.R.E. !!! ------------- 1999 Ski Nautique 196 |