Cutlass, Prop shaft & prop update
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41920
Printed Date: April-25-2024 at 12:27am
Topic: Cutlass, Prop shaft & prop update
Posted By: gt40KS
Subject: Cutlass, Prop shaft & prop update
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 2:38am
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Well after 2 evenings of working on it, I've finally gotten the prop shaft out so I could replace the strut bearings. As I had said earlier in a different post, one thing leads to another and before you know it there is a whole other list of stuff to be done. In my case, the "simple" task of pulling the shaft for the bearings opened up a whole other door that I wasn't real sure I wanted to go through. But the bearings appeared to be pretty bad and so before things cascaded I went ahead and pulled the trigger. While in the long run I'll be glad I did, what a can of worms I kicked over! First, both the safety collar and the engine coupler were completely frozen. Tried everything and virtually nothing worked. Consulted the forum search, google and friends. I even called a very helpful guy in the tech department @ DIM (skidim.com). No go. So last resort, I cut them both off:   ( Guess I have a two piece collar now lol ) But here's the real question - although I already know the answer. After pulling the shaft and inspecting it, here is what I found: What do you guys think ... time for a new shaft?    And one final thing. A question really. All the research I've done on the subject, all the videos I've watched and such, and everyone talks about, replaces or sells the strut bearings in 2 pieces, about 2" long each. So, what about this that I found after pulling the shaft and inspecting the strut:  Looks like a one-piece bearing to me..... Thanks in advance for your input ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Replies:
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 6:59am
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I bought my one piece 1" X 1 1/4" X 6" cutlas bearing from deepblueyachtsupply S/S shaft collar off of e-bay And yes, you will need a new shaft and coupler (without using a mic on it, it appears to have excessive wear.) Some on here may prefer a 2 piece cutlas but I put back in a 1 piece like I took out. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 7:02am
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Joe, I'd say it's time for a new shaft and coupling. I don't think I've ever seen that much wear at the cutlass before. The PO must have been running in sandy shallows and or beaching the boat frequently. I recommend a double taper system and suggest going with General Propeller. I see you found the "check your alignment" thread where I reported Charlie's experience with the GP. Single piece cutlass bearings 4, 5 or 6 inches long are still available but the advantage of two piece is more shaft support due to the distance between them and no extra drag because the two piece still have the same surface area. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 8:45am
| How much wear is too much wear? |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 9:52am
I'm certainly no expert, here least of all. However, as a quick home test I spanned across the worn area of the shaft with a steel straight edge and used a feeler gauge to measure the gap. I'd say no matter who you are one would have to agree that .o30" at it's widest is too much. BTW, the top of the shaft is nearly the same, with an excessive amount of wear similar to this below the collar into the stuffing box. My guess is that the PO - all of them by the looks of it - had never changed the packing and certainly had never changed the cutless bearing. I've already ordered a new 2-piece collar that should be arriving today, and highly suspected I would need a new coupler by the condition of the existing but I was holding off on that till I knew if I needed a new shaft as well. And here I was worried about having a bent shaft and having to replace it..... Funny thing is I've got an industrial shop table saw that I check things like this with (the table is large and perfectly flat) though it's not a mic, you can at least tell if something has a very slight wobble. The shaft seems to be nearly perfect, if it weren't for the wear. ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Riley wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 10:06am
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Bruce, As a general rule of thumb,if you can feel any movement at the cutlass then there's too much wear. Joe, Don't count on the saw table being "perfectly" flat. It's platen ground which is one of the least precise methods of grinding. The table could easily be out .003 in the length of the shaft meaning you will not be able to detect the max runout of .003. Put the shaft in V blocks and use a dial indicator on it. But, you need a new shaft anyway! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 11:27am
| Pete, I mean how much wear on the shaft? About everyone I've taken apart has some wear. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 1:04pm
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Bruce, .010" under nominal I'd say is time for a new shaft. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 3:05pm
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Pete What's the taper on the hub end of the General Propeller shafts? Is it the same 3/4 of an inch per foot as the prop end only shorter? Sounds like what Duane makes Sounds like a Supra double tapered shaft from the 80's too. Ski Supreme too. There's also a place called Croix Gear and Machining making these shafts. I think they were the supplier to Supra back then http://www.croixgear.com/" rel="nofollow - Croix Gear |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 3:59pm
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Ken, I didn't get a chance to measure the actual taper before Charlie picked up the shaft to install in his Cuda. But, just looking at it, I'd say the taper is half the angle and twice as long as the ARE. Yes, it's real close to what Duane makes. It's interesting you mention Croix Gear. General purchases their rough couplings from them! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 4:01pm
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Sorry to interject here, but I just got the old strut bearings out and figured I'd better check the new ones with the good sections of the old shaft before I pressed them in. To me they were a tad loose. I slipped it on from the coupler end as there is a good 12" to 14" before any of the worn areas and even though it didn't rattle around, it wasn't snug either - it would fall straight to the floor if I let it. So how loose is too loose? I don't really want to do this again in a year. I can't verify a part number as there isn't any numbers on them and the PO was the one that purchased them. ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 4:05pm
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Joe, Can you do any measuring of the old shaft? Also it sounds like the new cutlass bearings aren't pressed into the strut yet. Pressing them in will collapse the OD/ID slightly. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 4:36pm
At least the one they sold me was in fact 3/4 per foot - with a taper length of 1.775 inches in a 2.775 inch coupling length... originally designed by Marine Associates of Hudson WI - the parent company of Croix Gear... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 4:36pm
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Pete, mic's from 1.0005 to 1.001 in several places throughout the shaft at the undamaged areas on multiple axes ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 4:42pm
Thanks Joe 
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 4:45pm
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For the other Joe (from Kansas) Follow the link for some strut bearing info Pay particular attention to what Duane in Indy says http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40496&title=cutlass-bearing-play" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 5:01pm
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Thanks Ken and Pete - very helpful. I don't own an inside mic so just a guess, but I'd say these will actually be a bit on the snug side once installed based on the fit currently. Pete - Just curious, I re-read the comments above as I breezed through them earlier and had not caught your comment about the GP shafts. When I was reasonably sure I would need a a new shaft earlier this week I did a forum search and I remember coming across several posts regarding ARE double taper shafts. If I'm not mistaken, several of the more experience folks on the forum have recommended them so this morning bright and early I ordered one from skidim. Is there a reason these aren't the way to go now? ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 5:02pm
Joe, The play will be reduced when the bushings are pressed into the strut.
You are going with a new shaft correct? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 5:13pm
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Just crawled out from under my boat with my feeler gages. I was able to get a .006 feeler between the shaft and the bushing ID. I have approx 50 hours on the one piece cutlas bearing With that small amount of clearance it is hard to detect any slop. I am getting as bad as KenO, all this was done in the rain!   ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 5:19pm
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Joe in Kansas (has a certain ring to it) Plenty of people have had good luck with ARE Here's some more good double taper reading in the link http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40054&title=double-taper-shaft" rel="nofollow - link I've had shafts from ARE and Croix Gear and not had problems with either. They went together and came apart with about the same force |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 5:20pm
So what's the problem, it's sorta almost pretty dry under the boat?
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Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 5:23pm
IMO double tapered is the ONLY way to go. Sure makes life easier later on. I recommend a new brass key and a new brass nut. And always a new S/S cotter key I even go to the extreme of using a new brass nylock nut that I mill slots into for the cotter key  ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 5:35pm
Huh??? Ya lost me Pete edit, btw the puller is a design that Pete shared with me. Really clever ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 5:46pm
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Well this is all sounding very good then. I was hoping I wouldn't have to call the nice lady at DIM back and cancel my order lol. Anyway, as I've got the day off and a few days before my shaft will arrive, I decided to perform Pete's shaft test, just for grins. Sure enough the shaft had a slight bend undetectable to the naked eye - from x.0095 to x.0140, just out of tolerance. Either way I would have needed a new one ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 6:00pm
Think of spreading the bearings farther apart as an even support for the shaft. Sort of like a center bearing support on a long truck drive shaft. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 6:04pm
.003 on each side or .006 on each side? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 6:39pm
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003 on each side ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-13-2017 at 8:53pm
With the .003 on each side, it sounds it's just where it should be. Yes, with the rubber bushing it would be hard to detect any slop by hand but, I always suggest if you can feel slop, then it's time to check the cutlass. Now, you know if the bushing was hard like a guide or drill bushing, the .003 would be easy to feel the slop!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: September-27-2017 at 2:53am
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UPDATE: Finally had some time to spend on the alignment the last few days and through a lot of hair pulling, jammed knuckles and expletives I finally got it done this afternoon! After seeing how far out of alignment the original was, I'm really not surprised the shaft was as toasted as it was. I measured only .004" difference from side to side, which was bad enough. But the top to bottom was a whopping .019" difference with the pinch at the bottom. The rear port motor mount was frozen solid and I was never able to free it, but as luck had it that was the one mount that was OK to stay where it was. Raising the front of the engine proved to be quite a chore and a heck of a lot higher that I had thought it would be, over a 1/4"! I guess it makes sense though given the proximity of the coupler to the rear mounts. Anyway, I'm very happy to report the final alignment to be exact from side to side and what appears to be a .0005" or less variance from top to bottom. I'd call that close enough. So what started as a simple strut bearing replacement ended up as a new shaft, new coupler, safety collar, new stuffing box with Gore-tex and of course the new bearing. Here was a prime example of B.O.A.T. ..... and I'm pretty sure my wife is going to remind me. Constantly. But you know, it's worth it!!!  And the new prop to go with it ... can't wait to try it out ~!  Thanks to everyone for their help in this endeavor ! ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: December-15-2017 at 5:20pm
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I just had new shaft made at General Propellor. I talked to tech there and he stated 3/1000 is the tolerance. Mine was eaten up at the gland. leaked too much. New shaft was a deal. 220.00. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: December-15-2017 at 5:26pm
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Looks good! Also, while you have some fresh packing on hand you may want to re pack the rudder stuffing box. Looks like its hanging out of the rudder port quite a bit (rudder play is adjusted with the stuffing nut). You want about 1/16" up and down play in the rudder shaft. The picture may be deceiving my eyes since the focus is on the propeller. |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: December-25-2017 at 11:05pm
Funny you should point this out as I was recently told the same by a marine tech. I had my boat in for some repairs (I'll explain that later) and they've had it so long the weather here in Kansas has turned a bit cold. Since I've been working out of town every week for nearly 2 months and will be into January, I decided to just have the shop winterize her for me and they went through it to see if there was anything that needed attention. He said it had about 1/4" of vertical play and although it is not leaking would benefit from some rudder shims (which I was going to ask about on the forum at some point). Good news is she came out with a clean bill of health other than the rudder and of course the terribly rusted and frozen motor mounts. ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: December-27-2017 at 2:10pm
| My rudder gland is the top surface where the tiller arm rides. it adjusts up and down. I would think the proper amount of packing wraps will dictate the height of the packing gland nut. Not sure why you would want to add shims. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-27-2017 at 4:57pm
Because depending on the packing depth, tightness, size of packing, tolerance of the gland, etc. shims are needed and normal. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: December-28-2017 at 12:16am
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Pete, the tech working on my boat told me he thought the only shims available these days were 1/16" thick? ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-28-2017 at 7:58am
I wouldn't believe everything the tech tell you. A little shopping will find plenty of different thicknesses |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-28-2017 at 8:11am
Joseph, Your "tech" is getting too technical!! Maybe he doesn't know what a flat washer is??? I'd suggest getting a mechanic who knows how to adjust the height of a rudder. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: December-29-2017 at 10:40pm
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As with most repairs and such I plan to do the work myself so I was just needing to know if that was true, or if they just couldn't find a source for them considering they are primarily a MC dealer. ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-30-2017 at 7:41am
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Joseph, I've found a inexpensive way to shim a rudder in the port is to use https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-thrust-bearings/=1awnl0l" rel="nofollow - Bronze Oilite thrust washers which are available in 1/8 and 1/16 inch thicknesses. As I mentioned, plain flat washers have been used since the invention of the rudder port with a packing gland and that goes back plenty of years on ALL boats!! There is NO specific shim made. You can even find the Oilite washers in your local hardware store. I suspect your MC "tech" doesn't know where a Ace hardware store is. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: woodyelc
Date Posted: January-02-2018 at 5:21pm
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FYI Correct Craft cut there own shims in the machine shop and used them as needed. ------------- woodyelc |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: January-04-2018 at 3:23pm
| Mine has one thin shim that's in ok condition. Was wanting to put something else there for a bearing surface. The thrust bearings you posted seems to be the ticket. |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 12:50am
Well, update. In fact a rather disturbing update. I am now suspecting the MC "tech" was actually the 8 year old son of the guy that sweeps their floors !!! Weather giving us a (very short) break this week, I decided to start on a few of the items on the boat, namely the rudder shims we spoke about previously. While I had the interior out, I figured I needed to check the alignment that was done when the MC dealer replaced the skeg, shaft and prop last fall. GOOD thing I did .... what I found, well there aren't even any words. Pics, will have to do all the talking. BRACE yourself guys, and remember, this was supposed to be a master tech at a Premier MC dealership ....    Ohhh, but it gets worse:    As you can see the shaft is nowhere close to center in the log or centered with the engine coupler, it's over 1/2" off ! How many thousandths is that?? Just a few more than 3, and I'm very sure it's really a lot more than that because the shaft isn't just resting against the log, it's pressing against the log wall. Then there is that last pic. If you look closely, you'll notice it wasn't ground to the coupler, merely quickly bolted on, and rather loosely at that. I haven't removed the prop yet, but based on what you see here, I'm very sure it wasn't ground to the shaft either. Wow. SOOO glad I decided to check out their work and not just take it on faith their "Master Tech" knew what he was doing. ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 1:13am
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I thought you replaced the shaft and aligned it yourself back in a post from Sept 19th. Must be a missing chapter in the story.
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Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 1:26am
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Yes Ken, didn't really want to advertise the oops and make my daughter feel worse that she already did. It's been long enough now though. Story was my daughter and I went out for one last run late in the season last fall and long story short the combination of a panic situation and a lake she wasn't very familiar with ended with her driving the boat over some really nasty underwater rock hazards. Bent the cutlass about an inch to the port, warped the shaft and the new prop looked like rumpled tin foil. I would have done all the work myself (again) but since it was to be an insurance claim I was forced to take the boat to a dealership. And since our new CC dealership in town was barely open and didn't have their service/ repair facilities done yet I was also forced to take it to the only other "approved" shop around - the infamous MC dealership indicated above. ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 6:22am
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Joe, Regarding the taper at the coupling end, I have mentioned I've been lapping them to the coupling as well. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 9:33am
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Just like with cars, in the "Marine World" sometimes you run into,those "professionals" that could use a little extra help getting things right. Maybe it was a new guy, maybe they forgot the alignment part of the job, maybe you should be checking that new strut installation pretty closely too if you're smart. Hence why................the DIY hobbyist websites like this exist. Did you slide your 2 piece collar up to the coupling before the picture was taken or did they leave it up there where it couldn't really do what it was supposed to do if the shaft broke at the coupling. In your September pictures it was in the right spot. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 9:41am
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Oh............., I almost forgot, tell your daughter it was the navigator's fault What's that saying, All's well that ends well Looks like it'll end well with some work you weren't expecting to have to do again. |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 10:22am
LOL -- Funny, that's just what my wife said  But honestly, that's really not all wrong. I knew the lake fairly well and also knew my daughter did not. She had driven into a cove to check out the new dock that had been rebuilt and drove entirely too close to the side of the cove that you don't drive on, especially when the lake is a bit low. By the time I noticed where we were it was too late. Anyway, with the boat down for winter it's a good time to take care of some of the "list". I wasn't going to dig into it this winter, perhaps next, but since the motor mounts have to be replaced and the shaft has to come out again anyway I figure it's a good time to tear into the engine. Cleaning up all the grease, sloppy wiring and giving it a good, proper paint job. I'm going to swap the heads to GT40P and maybe, if it's not too much of a pain, bump the cam up a bit. Momma got her wish - she said I needed another project to get me out of the house    ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 10:29am
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Send those pictures tot he owner of the shop that did the work. He needs to know what is going out the door. You will be doing him a big favor! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 10:35am
Yes, I remember several of the group instructing me with this last fall and I'm thankful this site and it's folks exist, this being my first direct drive and first time dealing with a non-spline prop set-up. I had done this the first time and everything worked great. What is irritating in this situation is not that I have to do the work - I love doing this sort of stuff. It's that I have to REDO the work of a supposed master professional, who was paid for doing the work. BUT, at least now I will KNOW that the job is done correctly !! I had gotten the last shaft & coupler installed with an overall tolerance of a mere .0005". It's going to be a bit more work this time since I'll have to remove the new cutlass and reinstall it (correctly) but I'm sure I can get it spot on as well. ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 10:38am
But Chris, they have factory trained http://wichita.mastercraft.com/service-department/" rel="nofollow - "techs" ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 10:44am
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I figured on passing this off to the dealer at some point - think I'll go in and have a discussion with the owner/ manager. But honestly I'm not sure if that will help much. This dealer is sort of known in the area for being a bit of a snob. I was actually surprised when the agreed to work on such an old boat as mine. Their normal attitude is "don't bring anything to us older than 10 years and worth less that 50K ,,," ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 12:30pm
I have had good luck with dropping in 1.7 ratio roller rockers with gt40p heads and the stock bottom end/cam, Had no clearance issues and a pretty good wake up for sure... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 12:36pm
| The new boats stay in alignment so well that the techs probably have very little experience with dealing with alignment issues like you have. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 1:32pm
Bruce, New boats staying in alignment or not there's no excuse for what Joe found. NO "tech" even ones that sweep floors should force a shaft over like that to bolt the couplings together. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 2:22pm
It will be interesting to see first hand if the ecm has any trouble compensating for any of those changes or if it's a myth ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 3:14pm
The problem is that system doesn't really compensate for much without the feedback loop of an oxygen sensor, and some of the earlier ones were tuned pretty lean to begin with. The knock sensors are there and I am sure used to dial back some timing but if I was getting crazy with some improvements and not planning to reprogram I might bump up the injector size at least at first until I could get some info out of plug chops or an oxygen sensor. Not a very elegant solution though. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 3:17pm
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Joe, I'm pretty sure you have studied the alignment issue but to me it looks like it's the strut that's out. Just a friendly reminder to where to start and yes, alignment always starts at the strut! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 3:59pm
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One of those sometimes annoying little voices in my head says that I should mention to Joe that maybe they didn't put the right strut on the boat and the angle is wrong I guess I just mentioned it. Part S-19 gets the right strut at a CC dealer |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 4:29pm
| hope they didn't put the strut in with 5200. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 4:30pm
| Are you saying it's "dealer's choice" strut substitute? |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 4:35pm
I guess it would have been better to ask how much it can be pushed before it does all go wrong? Did Ford tune it to the edge to get the maximum out of it already? Does 30 over really affect it ? Ford never thought one could be rebuilt? What about better heads? etc, just where is the line? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 4:42pm
Sure They didn't buy the Acme prop or ARE shaft from Correct Craft Who knows where the strut came from? A 1/2 degree angle difference in his case is good for about a half inch difference in shaft height at the coupling end |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 5:02pm
|
And/or a sloppy repair and reinstall. Clearly they don't even know the term alignment. Yikes. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 5:15pm
| Alignwhat? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 6:00pm
ken, Take a look at Joe's pictures again. To me, the misalignment doesn't look much like an up and down issue but rather a port starboard issue. A couple 4' pipe wrenches and a couple cheater pipes could do wonders and even without strut removal. Yes, before you say it, it's defiantly a back yard hack method but it does work!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 7:02pm
Get the insurance company involved. They will send an adjuster to look at the work. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 7:04pm
|
To me it's high and to the driver's side I think it's hitting the shaft log I guess we'll have to wait for the instant replay review
|
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 7:40pm
wowzers
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 9:01pm
Excellent idea!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: February-12-2018 at 11:55pm
|
Wow, go to work for a while and come back to all of this.... So first, yes Pete is right on the misalignment - it is port/ starboard. It does seem to be just about right top to bottom, however (this is where Ken is correct) it is also hitting the log. And it's not just kinda resting there, it's pushing fairly hard against the side. So, for all I know when I get the alignment straightened out and there isn't pressure on the side, it may very well be off on the height as well. But I will be checking the cutlass again to see if they installed the correct one. And no Pete, I don't believe I'll be using the 4' pipe wrench method LOL I haven't had a chance to look at it that closely yet, but at a glance I'm not sure the question of whether they used 5200 or not will be an issue. Because at that glance, it appeared they didn't use anything at all. Suffice to say, doing all the rework myself this go-round, I'll know it's done correctly. Joe, thanks for the input with the engine bumps, I'll likely be picking your brain a bit more in the near future - I just have quite a bit of disassembly to take care of first. Though the conversation between you and Gary has me intrigued because I was thinking many of Gary's same questions. At this point, I'm not sure if I'm going to get the insurance company involved, as such - though I may give them a heads up. While I will never take my boat to these guys for repairs or service again, I really don't want to see anyone else get half-baked (trying to be nice here) work like this either. And when the Insurance company and the dealership are both aware of the debacle, I'll just let the chips fall where they may. ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: SWANY
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 12:08am
| Did it feel like there was resistance in spinning the prop by hand when you picked it up from the dealer? |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 12:37am
Honestly, I didn't even give it a whirl that day. I had been working out of town for the last couple months, only back home for a day or two on the weekends, and only had a short amount of time to do what seemed like a thousand things before heading back Sunday night. It was several weeks afterward I even remembered to give it a try, and yes, it did seem like there was some resistance. But that day, just as the day I picked her up, the high for the day was in the single digits, so I chalked it up do just being very cold. Last night I had the garage heat on and it was a balmy 55 in the garage for several hours before I got out there to start my full inspection of their work. Of course, there was still noticeable resistance, which prompted me to continue my disassembly and not wait for the weekend. Ken, checked a bit ago and took a pic of the new cutlass and according to the model # cast on the side, it is the correct one: S-19  ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 4:25am
|
They really screwed up your shaft repair. I see no reason to let them keep the large sum they charged to give you such shoddy work. You should at the very least get all your money back. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 5:54am
My thoughts as well. Getting the insurance company involved would help your case against this shoddy dealer. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 10:19am
|
Well at least you know you have the right strut so you have all the right pieces to do it yourself. I figure you're ahead of the game money wise cause the parts probably were more than your deductible otherwise you wouldn't have gone through the insurance company to begin with. So, now you have a bunch of new parts and an alignment job you can handle yourself.and what you do with insurance and the dealer is up to you. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 11:04am
|
+1 it's not like Joe took it to a Nautique dealer anyway. I'd let the insurance company know but it sounds as he won't get too far with the dealer. If this is the level of service expected by Mastercraft owners then so be it. I guess you would not take your Mercedes to a Chevy dealer and expect the same experience. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 12:11pm
|
Not sure how an insurance company would be involved. your own policy pays for a covered loss resulting from a covered peril. Mechanical failure and or damage caused by mechanical failure would not be covered. Poor workmanship also not covered. Regarding the shop's general liability policy, they would only cover damage caused by the shops work and or products, it would exclude the work and or parts . Meaning the misaligned shaft would have to damage something else such as transmission for them to pay anything. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 12:29pm
| Presumably the dealer and insurance company would be interested in knowing if there was a significant problem with the quality of the work performed and/or a discrepancy between the work that was billed vs the work that was actually completed (I think they call that fraud). Even if no one was requesting additional payouts. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 12:41pm
Previous post Tim, don't think Joe will get far pointing out dealer incompetence to him Now if Joe had not checked the work and went and used the boat and it failed he could take the dealer to court. Don't know how far you'd get with a judge if it came out that you took it to a place that did not do authorized work i.e. Chevy dealer working on your Benz. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 1:31pm
|
I understand Joe isn't planning on returning to the dealer but I still like the idea of getting the insurance company involved. You may call it revenge but no dealer even a MC dealer should get away with work like that. Yes, Tim makes a valid point regarding fraud and I'm sure the insurance company would love to hear about it. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: February-13-2018 at 2:36pm
| The OP stated that this was an insurance claim. Sometimes the insurance company pays the dealer directly for the work other times the insured party gets a check based on estimates. If the insurance company worked directly with the dealer then they are on the hook to have the damage repaired correctly. I had a car repaired after an accident and the shop screwed up a few things. The insurance company paid another shop to fix the problems on the same claim and I did not have to pay another deductible. Even if they didn't pay directly they still have more leverage than an individual to get the job done correctly. |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: February-14-2018 at 10:57am
| You are talking about a direct repair facility where the insurance company has a contract with the shop. Shop uses after market parts etc. Typically the insurance companies will warrant the work from these shops. Going to find this more common practice with automotive repairs than marine. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-15-2018 at 3:35am
|
If the shop took your money and agreed for that amount to repair this boat they failed. Any court would insist you give them an opportunity to repair your boat before they would consider giving you back your money normally. In this case you have a strong case to claim they wer either negligent or not competent and did not complete the job they charged you for. Give the better business bureau a call and get advise how To proceed. Any good shop would bend over backwards to rectify your situation. Maybe they were busy and a rookie did your work. ------------- |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: February-15-2018 at 10:06am
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Or you could just fix it yourself & do a really accurate job. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: February-15-2018 at 11:38am
Some insurance companies will pay "non-preferred" shops directly. I had similar damage to my boat. The CC dealer told me that he did not like dealing with some insurance companies (specifically Progressive) because they took too long to pay and he would end up having to hold the boat after the repairs were complete. I had BOAT US and they cut me a check for the amount of his estimate minus deductible and I paid him. |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: February-15-2018 at 1:33pm
|
paying a shop directly and having a contract with them are 2 different things. Shop would have you sign a direction to pay allowing the insurance carrier to pay them and leave you off of the check. Doesn't make insurance company liable for defective work. I do have expertise in this field, been a commercial liability adjuster for 25 years and paid out about 20000 claims. Don't do much first party stuff but it is essentially the same. |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: February-18-2018 at 1:00am
This would be the case with my situation and that's why I decided to give the insurance company a heads up, but don't expect anything to change on my end. I figure perhaps it may help someone else down the line who may be looking to have these "professionals" work on their boat. I never intended to have a shop do this type of work on my boat to begin with. The reason I went this direction in this case was ONLY because it was an insurance claim and they would have been more than skeptical about letting me do all the work on my own boat and footing the bill for the repairs - it was mandatory to have an actual repair shop do the work. And knowing the shops preceding reputation about the age and valuation of it's prospective clients crafts, I fully expected the boat to need some fine tuning when I got her back. I just really didn't think it was going to have to be a total and complete redo !! ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |