Twin Turbo Big Block Marine Chryslers - 440 M&W Ge
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42216
Printed Date: April-29-2024 at 1:09am
Topic: Twin Turbo Big Block Marine Chryslers - 440 M&W Ge
Posted By: JoeinNY
Subject: Twin Turbo Big Block Marine Chryslers - 440 M&W Ge
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 12:39am
So Ive been trying to get these bought for a few months...found them on the craigslist in lake of the ozarks while looking for a 440 marine engine as a platform for the twin turbo kit I got from Bill K on ccfan a few years ago. They finally got pulled out of the 42 foot cruiser they originally came in this week so I rented me a truck and got down there on the double qUick. Got the on a couple cradles and loaded into the rental  There was a little squat but thats 880 cubic inches of cool  2100 miles and 45 hours round trip and they are back in the shop ...       So there is a right and a left, in theory they are both running engines and basically complete, no final plans on what boats are going to end up in or if the left one is going to stay left handed ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Replies:
Posted By: connorssons
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 5:51am
| Dont be stingy, donate on for my bfn project! Lol lol |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 9:19am
| Great score! Are those air boxes fit over an ordinary AFB? |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 9:49am
Those are nice. Just hope you don't buy a Blackfin or two and end up with an escalation of Blackfin speed runs   Any idea of adversed hp ? How did the truck drive with that weight? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 10:34am
WOW !!!!!!!!!!! You are going to have to widen and raise the dog house.  Nice find. Very fitting you used a Mopar truck to pick up those Mopar Motors. No pressure, but we are expecting some winter eye candy on this project. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens 2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 10:39am
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Following.....I have been jokingly pestering Joe for a while about when he may get that turbo setup running. I guess the joke is on me now. Heck, Why not have two twin turbo big block Chrysler motors in your shop?!! Way to go Joe! ------------- 2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 10:46am
| Very Cool Joe, I love these rare odd ball set ups. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 10:47am
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4 turbos whining at once must have been quite the gearhead concert! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 10:59am
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Joe, Very interesting to say the least!! Fill us in when you come up with more specifics on what you think you'll do with them. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: illiniball2000
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 11:31am
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Cool! Cant wait to see where these end up. ------------- Beer is my friend 87 Dominique Had 67 Starflite |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-11-2017 at 12:22pm
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A little more info, M&W Gear advertised and sold kits to convert to twin turbo many popular inboard motors from the early 70s through the mid eighties. They advertised them as increasing power and fuel economy, with increases in hp between 15 and 20% over stock. M&W was more well known for turbo kits for tractors, where the increased hp could increase productivity and sold relatively well. I have seen probably a dozen M&W turbo tractors at tractor shows over the years and many more online but the only 3 marine sets I have ever seen in person are all in my shop right now, online searching has shown a few others being traded at some point. I suspect they sold a fair amount of them over years, maybe more to big relatively underpowered cruisers like the one these came out of, not too many of those make it onto the boat show circuit. I’ve the one set from Bill for a few years now, it has a much cleaner elbow setup for the turbos than these, and I have found the original patent drawings online that show most of the plumbing but figuring out the oiling circuit and the best way to get boost referenced fuel to the carb and whether or not the carb had been significantly changed was probably going to cause a breakdown or two along the way – getting two running ones completely setup should eliminate a bunch of the learning curve. These are pretty common rajay turbos, M&W gave them water jacketed housings and added the plumbing for exhaust/air/oil. I think I have all the hard to get parts ( will still need another healthy 440 bottom end) to make 3 RH twin turbo 440s in my possession at this point, The turbos will drop down at least 4 inches on these ones, the other kit will keep them lower than the carb box and inside of the manifolds. Goals for this year is to assess internal health and probably drop one or both into an ugly but functional 20ft 73 marauder and see if they run out. Long term the one I keep is intended to end up in a blue 1970 19ft marauder that right now needs everything. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-12-2017 at 12:13pm
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Very interested to follow this Joe, I love the way you jump in the truck and drive wherever you have to drive to to keep the cool projects going! ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: December-12-2017 at 6:26pm
Come on, Joe! The Marauder 19 will be plenty happy with a stock 440....I was hoping you'd say we'll get to see a twin screw, twin turbo Buckskin Beauty at the 2020 SJRR!! Kidding aside, nice find. Thanks for having the patience and persistence to chase down these rare projects and educating us common folk. Looking forward to seeing your progress. |
JoeinNY wrote:Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: December-12-2017 at 7:12pm
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The really crazy thing (to me) is that I would bet you $5 and nice tuna samich that Joe could have at least of these lit up and running just fine in his driveway by the weekend. Maybe both. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-13-2017 at 11:13am
I thought about it, but its too cold and I would have to rewinterize them. These engines were in a boat running 7 days ago so the hope is that there is minimal work to get them up and going. There are just a couple small projects to clear out of the garage at the moment, then I would like to do a compression/leakdown test on these engines before giving any thought to the next steps... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: December-13-2017 at 11:33am
I am assuming that the 330 on the valve covers is before the turbo treatment. Got any ideas on how many pounds of boost it will make?? Sounds like a fun project. Duane  ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: NCH20SKIER
Date Posted: December-13-2017 at 12:15pm
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Good find ------------- '05 206 Limited '88 BFN |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-13-2017 at 12:47pm
Yes the engines were 330 hp stock I haven’t seen the documentation for the Chrysler kits, but general advertising claimed upto 25% increase. I have seen Small block chevy kits they were selling that they indicated 15-20% increase in hp, depending on engine application. I doubt there is much boost, I am guessing 6-7 psi and that 400hp might be a legit number to put on the valve covers. More could be gotten with a modern set of heads and an intake but would lack the super vintage twin turbo cool factor… ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: December-13-2017 at 1:24pm
| Very big cool-factor project. I haven’t heard Rajay since I worked on aircraft engines in the early 80’s. You’ve got some very rare iron there. It would be fun to see the end product. Love those old Mopar big blocks. They were fun to sit behind in all of those 70’s Darts, Demons and Coronets we had in our family. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-13-2017 at 7:00pm
| How do they work? Are they fuel injection or is there are carburetor inside the box? They must improve low end power and torque as they were in a cabin cruiser? Does the redline increase from stock? |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: December-13-2017 at 7:05pm
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Carb in box Bruce. Carburetors operate based on atmospheric pressure. If you were applying more pressure to the venturi of the carburetor and not the other points that leak air it would throw the pressure/vacuum differential out of wack and make them not operate. Joe said these kits were to increase operating efficiency and increase power at operating speeds. Turbos generally dont increase low end a ton because they need some exhaust flow and load to get spun up then the power comes. Modern turbos get around the lag pretty handily but likely not these. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-13-2017 at 7:11pm
| Sounds like that Buckskin Beauty is the boat for one of them. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: December-13-2017 at 7:16pm
| I can’t wait to hear one of them go WOT under load and hear the turbos come online. I would imagine the turbos probably run out of steam up top but the acceleration when they light will be fantastic. Probably motors for a nice big prop. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-14-2017 at 1:50am
Would be fun to have a boost gauge, easy to do but not sure there is an empty spot on the dash for one. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: December-14-2017 at 9:02am
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When the setup was in my marauder they just put a boost gauge on the dash in the right hand corner under the windshield. Not ideal as far as eye appeal but I'm sure it was fun to look at! ------------- 2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski |
Posted By: sport1999
Date Posted: December-14-2017 at 9:06am
| Great find! Can't believe that trip you took to get hem. Lots of miles! Fun project. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-14-2017 at 10:49am
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For sure there will be a boost guage somewhere... Some old docs....   ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-14-2017 at 11:36am
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Although I'll bet M&G are long gone from Gibson City that is in Todd Weitekamps neck of the woods. Wonder if he knows anything about them ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: December-14-2017 at 11:52am
| Oooo, Cat 3208 motors. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-14-2017 at 12:00pm
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M&W are gone for sure, there is a company selling parts and tractor kits still, and a company that sells parts and turbos for the airplanes that used Rajay turbos, but nobody supporting the marine kits that I have found. Tractor dealers used to the stock the turbo kits for tractors so there are some NOS parts around, but it seems most of the boat stuff was sold direct. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: December-14-2017 at 3:00pm
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Nice find Joe...6 marine turbo's to my 4 I bow to the king have fun. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: illiniball2000
Date Posted: December-22-2017 at 6:05pm
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Joe I was talking with my cousin who owns a Diesel shop in my hometown in central IL. They do a ton of turbo work and wanted to show him some pictures. I mentioned that it was an M&W and he got a smirk on his face. Turns out they purchased all the remaining stock of parts and misc that M&W had in Gibson City. Just by looking at the pictures he thought he could help you out if you need something. If you want to touch base with him sometime I can give you his information. Brian ------------- Beer is my friend 87 Dominique Had 67 Starflite |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-22-2017 at 7:25pm
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Very nice find. I remember in the 80's we heard of a guy with a 454 ski Nautique with twin turbos. I never saw it but one of my ski partners got a ride in it. He said power was incredible but top speed was limited by porpoising. Looks like a couple great projects will be on tap. The turbo kits look to be high quality. ------------- |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: December-22-2017 at 9:15pm
Everything is better when it comes as a set!! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: December-22-2017 at 10:27pm
Amen  ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens 2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: May-02-2018 at 10:54am
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Since Bill asked for an update... It was very cold in the shop this winter (which ended 3 days ago) so not as much movement on these projects as I would have liked - but I was able to source a good donor 440 lower end not too long ago. I plan to start swapping over reverse rotation parts and replacing the bearings/rings on rainy days over the next couple months. If that all works out it should give me 2 good rh 330s and 1 good lh 330 and 3 sets of twin turbos to play with. I do have another rh crank and cam out of a 426 but I hate to take apart an original running marine mopar at this point so if the LH runs out good it might stay as is. I probably need to rebuild a trailer before I can get any of these engines into a test boat as the one that the marauder is on has blown out all 4 of its irreplaceable coil springs. I uncovered the 67 wildcat which is hopefully not getting one of these motors to try and get it started after the winter over the weekend it wants a few days of work to get it ready for the summer but I don't plan on any problems with taking it to green lake so Bill you can meet me there for a ski, quinner too if he can drag his but 2 hours north. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 12:21pm
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Admittedly my head has been buried under a rock and work has me going 1000 different directions, but Joe, you just said Green Lake! I miss all you guys a ton, and obviously, I missed that announcement... When is everyone heading to Green Lake??? ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 12:22pm
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Those Chrysler mods are WAY COOL btw... ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 12:38pm
Joe, What sources have you checked for the springs? When I rebuilt the TeeNee for the Atom, I used springs from https://www.mcmaster.com/#springs/=1d4znrs" rel="nofollow - McMaster . Under "compression springs", looks like they go all the way up to 5" dia. and some with some pretty decent load ratings. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 12:56pm
Its over in the reunion thread Steve... I know that's like two clicks away so I will copy and paste it here... Hope you can make it! I am still in decent shape to get something there that is big and chryslery Hey all.. I've been asked by many "when we'd make Green Lake great again"....... So by popular demand, I'm posting this as a means to get us together yet once again at the big lake they call "Horrible" LOL.... So those of you who want to come out and spend time on the big lake, tip a few back with friends in the bay, and bring your beloved CC, block out the weekend of July 14th. No formal sign up.. We'll most likely gather for a trailer show on Friday night, then spend all day in the water on Sat/Sun. No formal dinner... Check the following site for accommodations.. The Lakeside Inn has reopened under new management,, Now called the Green Lake Suites.. www.visitgreenlake.com So make a plan, even if its for the day.. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 1:00pm
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Joe, What sources have you checked for the springs? When I rebuilt the TeeNee for the Atom, I used springs from https://www.mcmaster.com/#springs/=1d4znrs" rel="nofollow - McMaster . Under "compression springs", looks like they go all the way up to 5" dia. and some with some pretty decent load ratings. [/QUOTE] They are the confined space conical springs I asked a trailer place and looked online for the usual suspects... in truth the trailer is a piece of junk universal inboard trailer and while I would put maybe 200 into springs for it to keep as a yard trailer it would be money better spent on one of the CC trailers I have needing restoration. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 1:34pm
Thanks Joe!!! It is going on the calendar!!! ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 2:11pm
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So I been messing about with the RH 440 trying to get it a little closer to correctcraft size and decided to get out the previously designated for the landfill 72ish marauder and see if I can get them making some waves together in time for the summer. A lot of futzing with hoses so far, but I have the cooling system generally complete and it shouldn't be too much longer now before its in the boat. After that there is a lot of wiring/fuel system upgrades to do, and a new floor, and some wood replacement for the seats… but hopefully then it will be ready for cruising. Boat  Old side view  New Side view  Old Back View  New Back View  New front view  Empty Boat  Getting Close  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 2:25pm
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I'd say when you are on the water and pull that doghouse to show someone the engine, you are instantly the coolest kid on the block. Is there any issue with balance of turbo output? In other words, if one is healthier than the other does it matter at all, or does the pressure balance regardless of which side is putting out more and just delver X amount of air to the carb? ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 3:05pm
I am not one of them there experts but all they are doing is providing air to the carb box at an increased pressure (sadly also increased temperature) . If one doesn't work at all then it is a leak path for the air being moved by the other and there probably would be little to any boost as a result. if one is slower or more restricted than the other then the overall boost might be reduced a bit but nothing I would likely notice. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 8:32am
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All looks good to me. 😳😉😂. I am glad you chose to take on this challenge Joe! ------------- 2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 9:01am
    It Bolts right in ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 9:22am
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Getting interesting!! ------------- Js |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 9:56am
Seriously can’t wait for a ride in this sleeper. |
Posted By: bwinn
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 12:09pm
| Now we’re talkin! Love the Project Joe. That ariens looks like a nice workhorse too |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 12:36pm
That Ariens is about the same year as the boat, and few older than me - 16hp of all hydraulic lifting, shaft driven, mowing, snow blowin, plowing, and rototillin monster -complete with 3 point hitch for moving boats around the shop. A little worn in the cosmetics and valve train, figure I might clean her up in another 20 years or so when one of us retires. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 12:46pm
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Ok, might be a foolish question, but that never stops me ...... how does the wet log to up pipe to turbo then out exhaust handle the cooling water? ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 1:43pm
Not sure I completely get the question but.... This is an insanely complicated cooling system, water and exhaust are not joined together until the last elbows that point down into the exhaust hoses/tubes that will run out the back. The exhaust components are all jacketed in water but they have dry joints between them and the water travels from one piece to another via a hose in and a hose out. The elbows under the turbos actually have 2 hoses in and one out. One of the two water pumps (the little one), splits right out of the pump and cools the trans cooler and starboard manifold (enters back bottom, leaves back top) with the other one cooling the oil cooler and then into the back bottom of the port manifold. The water from the back top of the manifolds then goes to the bottoms of the aluminum elbows below the turbos. Water from the big pump cools the engine until it is too warm then it is sent back to a t that sends water to the top inside of the same elbows below the turbo. Water leaves those elbows on the top outside goes to the outside turbo jacket fitting, travels to the inside turbo jacket fitting where it leaves and goes to the fitting on the last elbow attached to the turbos and is dumped with the exhaust out the bottom. The engine cooling circuit is also crazy but we will omit that except for the in and out for now. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 3:56pm
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Actually you got my badly worded question, thanks for the reply. I was trying to see how manifold water found it's way into the exhaust post-turbo while still keeping things cool enough and wasn't seeing it. Wow, that is complex! I assume they felt that a single pump couldn't be guaranteed to balance flow to both sides of the engine, so chose two pumps to insure volume of flow everywhere? ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |