Print Page | Close Window

Strut Alignment Procedure

Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42567
Printed Date: August-18-2018 at 7:53am


Topic: Strut Alignment Procedure
Posted By: wiscofoot
Subject: Strut Alignment Procedure
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 12:42pm
Going to try and dry fit my strut which was bent and just finished being repaired. I have the prop off and the coupling separated from the trans. I didn't have an indicator last week and wanted to get the strut into the shop ASAP, Shaft appeared to straighten right out once I got the strut loose. I have a dial indicator now. The strut base is recessed in the hull.

Once I get the strut dry fit so that the shaft is happy and centered in the log and spinning freely, can I get my runout measurement by just spinning the shaft on V blocks? Or is there a need to reconnect to trans for rigidity for this precise of a measurement? I would think the V blocks would be better than connecting it to a misaligned eng/trans. I would like to determine asap if the shaft is junk.

What is the target total incated runout aft of strut, what is pretty bad, and what is completely unacceptable. This measurement is taken on the taper correct? Is a measurement between strut and log valuable?

How close should I have the couplings halves to each other while doing the strut alignment?

Will the seal and cure of the 5200 be ruined permanently if temps dip below freezing periodically in the 7 days it is supposed to cure?

My woman is on vacation, hence the availability of time to do this, but I will be doing it alone so any other side tips and tricks would be appreciated. Also any tips on how to loosen a very tight log hose that was installed new last year by PO with new packing... I heated it up with a hair dryer for 20 min and wasn't able to get it to come off without beginning to damage it and I don't want to have to pull the coupler to replace the hose if my shaft ends up being good.

Thanks in advance for any input.




Replies:
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 1:21pm
003 to 006 is the tolerance.
you are looking for side to side im assuming.    Get it as close to parallel with keel as possible then after installed and 5200 is cured you can finish aligning the engine.     


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Shaft appeared to straighten right out once I got the strut loose.

Thanks in advance for any input.



Those are scary words right there

Sounds like your shaft was bent, bowed or whatever and you think that 1 inch hunk of stainless steel is going to magically straighten itself out.

If you want to do it right, you should be pulling the shaft out of the boat, checking for straightness and proceeding from there following something like Pete's alignment video


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:



My woman is on vacation, hence the availability of time to do this,


Time? You currently should be getting buried in snow!!! We're currently getting hit on top of the 10" we got Saturday but today I understand most of the snow is south of 29. I think you have some time before the boat will see water!!

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Shaft appeared to straighten right out once I got the strut loose.

Thanks in advance for any input.





Sounds like your shaft was bent, bowed or whatever and you think that 1 inch hunk of stainless steel is going to magically straighten itself out.



My statement about the shaft straightening right out may have been misleading about what I think. What I think is that there is a possibility that the deformation seen by the shaft was elastic and that it did not yield. The visible deviation in the shaft was between the strut and the transmission which is a significant length relative to the diameter of the shaft. Furthermore that the possibility that that is true would justify dry fitting the strut and measuring the run out of the shaft before re-evaluating. Especially given that If I pressed out the shaft I would be adding mandatory machining time/money to face the coupler. I could be delusional but it appears to me it is worth the potential massive time savings to check this way.

For the record I have watched Pete's video several times.

Pete, thanks to the handful of mills dumping millions of gallons per day of warm effluent, the Fox north of Winnebago has been open since February. You can't eat the walleye but it floats the boat just the same and I was able to get out several times in March. Also I am a Yooper with a dry suit and built a 60 psi hot shower.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 6:28pm
Well with all them fancy engineering terms you must know what you're doing

Try it your way, nothing to lose.


Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 6:40pm
I would just line up the strut & engine within spec, lock it all down, then take a test ride & see if it vibrates. It won't be much more work to take the shaft out if you need to replace it.

I found it hard to get exact runout measurement because dial indicator base not being solid mounted.

I would use 3M4200, it cures much faster & should be strong enough.

-------------
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 6:46pm
I’m sorry if that came across as rude or arrogant, I didn’t mean it to be . You small group of guys that post on this forum are by far the best resource on the web for advice on working on these boats and my experience is minimal in comparison. I am here because I need help sometimes. I am very new to forum culture and will try and practice better etiquette.


Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 6:51pm
I think it was a compliment!

-------------
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 7:13pm
Sorry for my haste. I watched Pete’s 101 again with full attention and noticed he covered some of the questions I asked earlier. I will update on how it goes.


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 7:16pm
Cole,
IF you can rigidly V block the shaft while it's still in the boat, not connected to the trans and rigidly mount the dial indicator to get some decent readings, then you may be able to check the shaft. The figure I always use is .003 TIR at any spot on the shaft. The area of most concern is on the taper aft of the strut.

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

I think it was a compliment!


What he said, ^^^

I see from your profile you're a young engineer who can spell too, unlike Pete who's old and can't spell mechanical right in his profile

And don't worry about etiquette around here



Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-03-2018 at 7:48pm
Fix that profile Pete


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-04-2018 at 12:38pm
The shop that straightened the strut did a mediocre job, not terrible but I think i can live with it. With the strut dry fit and shaft centered in the log and the cutlass bearing dry I am able to spin the shaft with my hand on the shaft with about the strength it would take to open a jar of salsa. Is this indicative that strut alignment will be manageable going forward?

I ran out of propane in the garage and quickly lost dexterity and motivation so i didn't get to measure the runout of the shaft last night. Getting the shaft to stay centered on the homemade V blocks was challenging. Can i use a runout measurement taken with it bolted to the trans? If so i will do it and I can admit to having a bent shaft and then cut the devil out and join the A.R.E. cult... unless Pete will give me permission to use a harbor freight steering wheel puller to get the shaft out.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-04-2018 at 1:43pm
You're this far, I'd hook it up even though alignment won't be right and check the shaft.
It might be kinda tough.

Or.........take the coupling off and check the shaft on the workbench.

If you get to "cutting the devil out" a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder with a 1/16 inch thick cutting wheel behind the coupling takes about 60 seconds taking your time. It's easier than a sawzall

Don't wait for Pete, it's his birthday today and he's still trying to blow all those candles out


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-04-2018 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

The shop that straightened the strut did a mediocre job,

Cole,
Understand that struts are not a precise machined piece of bronze! Fine tuning is done on the hull.
Ken,
Thinking you need to know, leaf blowers work great.

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-04-2018 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Ken,
Thinking you need to know, leaf blowers work great.


I'll be chuckling about that for a week or so Pete, good one


Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-04-2018 at 6:18pm
Cole - When you bolt shaft up to the tranny, check the parallelism (feeler check). If you see that it changes with rotation of shaft, that is another sign of warped shaft.

Good luck on you project.

-------------
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-04-2018 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Cole - When you bolt shaft up to the tranny, check the parallelism (feeler check). If you see that it changes with rotation of shaft, that is another sign of warped shaft.

Good luck on you project.

Plus 1.
Yes, if the shaft is bent forward of the strut. a uneven gap between the coupling faces will follow the rotation of the shaft.


-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-05-2018 at 1:15pm
Coupling faces measured parallel within a thousandth of an inch. More like 5 tenths. It sounded too good to be true so I unbolted them and offset it by 90 degrees from the original and measured again and it was the same result. .0001 fit everywhere with a little resistance and .00015 did not fit anywhere.

I was able to get a pretty good runout measurement on the shaft halfway between the strut and coupler. Magnetic base indicator on trailer and 4 ratchet straps to keep the boat tight to the trailer...not a machinist dream but was able to get repeatable results.

14 thousandths total indicated runout.   Measuring on the taper was harder but with the help of a friend I was able to get a reading I felt was reasonable, between 14 and 16 thousandths.

I am frustrated because I know you guys will tell me that it is too much but I have a feeling that if I put the prop on and took it for a rip it might not be that bad. That being said I have sunk a good amount of time and money into this boat since I bought it in feb and this is the last thing that needs to be addressed.   I don't want to sink more money and time but I also realize It would be like stopping at mile 25 of a marathon. I have taken photos of most of the stuff I did and I will share them when I/boat is good and ready.

Do you guys think that bend is going to be immediately noticeable under power? I know I will need to replace the shaft but I would rather wait and do it next month and I don't think it would really be a lot more work to do it later if I go with the ARE but it will allow me to use the boat once this weather rolls out.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-05-2018 at 1:47pm
I'll surprise you and be the outlier here and say, you're this far "run it" see what it's like and decide for yourself from there

The mirror and the gunwales will tell you a lot about vibration

How does the prop turn by hand right now if you wet the cutlass bearing a little before turning it?

Did you catch that Pete? I used a nautical term I have to go see what a gunwale is now.


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-05-2018 at 2:11pm
Haven’t put the prop on yet but when I wet the bearing I could turn the shaft with my bare hand on the shaft but it required most of my strength . After it dried/froze I had to use a wrench on the coupling with minimal force. I would guess with prop on I could spin it with ease. Keep in mind the transmission and fluid is below 30 degrees so there is probably a good amount of resistance from that.


Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-05-2018 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:


It sounded too good to be true so I unbolted them

.


I am probably mis-reading your post, but just to be clear the gap between couplers is measured with couplers fully unbolted. I use one hand to hold them tight & measure with the other.

I would take it for a ride, it won't hurt anything, but may vibrate.

.014 is 4X tolerance so don't get hopes up too high.

It is possible to have shaft straightened, but most guys opt to modernize with dual taper.

-------------
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin


Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-05-2018 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Coupling faces measured parallel within a thousandth of an inch. More like 5 tenths.
measured again and it was the same result. .0001 fit everywhere with a little resistance and .00015 did not fit anywhere.


Curious to find out how you measured these dimensions. I worked in Tool and Die trade for many years building aircraft engine inspection gages requiring that type of tolerances. Definitely controlled atmosphere type work.

-------------
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-05-2018 at 5:33pm
Multiple big whoops took place. Throw out and disregard everything I said about the coupling faces. Couplers were bolted together and I missed a zero on the feelers. Duane I thought the same thing and that was why I didn’t like the measurement and did it multiple times. Sometimes the brain gets a little funny after 5 pm. I think my path forward is clear. I will just order the ARE now and go hungry now and thank you guys later. I got a quote from Elbert but should I just go through skidim to get the discount?


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-05-2018 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Couplers were bolted together

I'm trying to understand how you used the feeler gauges when the couplings were bolted together? The .003" max between the faces is the DIFFERANCE top to bottom port to starboard. As others have mentioned, try the boat out but understand with a .014", that's a lot.

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-05-2018 at 7:09pm
In the interest of keeping you alive to use the boat, why don't you keep eating and check the alignment the right way before spending your food money? It won't take long to know if it's way out of whack

By the way you can probably save some of that money with a double tapered shaft from General Propeller in Florida

It's been discussed in some older threads here on CCF.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-05-2018 at 7:17pm
If you google      correctcraftfan general propeller     you'll come up with some reading about ARE and General Propeller.

I have no favorite, I'm an equal opportunity recommender.


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-05-2018 at 7:36pm
If you had a straight shaft, Duane in Indy could turn it into a double taped shaft at a good price, but I suppose if it was straight you wouldn't need a new one


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 12:02am
I was being a little dramatic about going hungry    I can swing the ARE. Wish I would’ve just bought it before (as recommended on every relevant thread on this site) and been done with it by now. On the bright side I will have a nice lever to use for getting the strut pointing due north.


Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:14am
Not to beat a dead horse, but any chance you are calling calipers 'feelers'?

I can't see how you could slide a feeler in between the couplers when they are bolted together.

These are
https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/electrical/test-measurement/calipers-dial/general-tools-fraction-8482-digital-fractional-caliper-6-150mm?infoParam.campaignId=WR&msclkid=e35fbc1a5eac17107b0be6ddded565d1&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=catch%20all&utm_term=4582627026478407&utm_content=Catch%20All" rel="nofollow - calipers

-------------
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:32am
Cole,
Your profile says you are a paper mill mechanical engineer. There are hundreds of couplings and shafts in a mill that require alignment. How do you align them? Maybe you could take a look at some and if you don't actually do the alignments ask someone who does for some first hand visuals and pointers. Does you mill utilize laser alignment on couplings and shafts? They sure are handy but unfortunately not practical on our small inboards.

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:37am
No chance. And I didn’t add a zero like I said earlier. There as around 1 thousandth or less gap between the faces around the circumference when they were bolted up. I wiggles the .001 feeler right In there. Makes sense because they are probably warped and would likely warp away from each other at the outside if they are not parallel. I haven’t seen a torque spec on the nuts so I didn’t lock them down extremely tight either. Either way it was a worthless measurement because they should’ve been flush and it didn’t tell me anything about the concentricity of the system. Is everyone all good?


Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:40am
my confusion level and your post count are directly related.

Maybe he's only a mecanical engineer and doesn't do alignments.

Fix your profile Pete


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:42am
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

No chance. And I didn’t add a zero like I said earlier. There as around 1 thousandth or less gap between the faces around the circumference when they were bolted up. I wiggles the .001 feeler right In there. Makes sense because they are probably warped and would likely warp away from each other at the outside if they are not parallel. I haven’t seen a torque spec on the nuts so I didn’t lock them down extremely tight either. Either way it was a worthless measurement because they should’ve been flush and it didn’t tell me anything about the concentricity of the system. Is everyone all good?

Again:
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

The .003" max between the faces is the DIFFERANCE top to bottom port to starboard.   

You can't measure the difference between the coupling faces when they are bolted together. If you have a gap between the faces when they are bolted together, then you have a major misalignment.

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:44am
Probably "LoveJoy " couplers that don't require precision alignment
Lovejoy "Spidex" Jaw Couplings

KenO or somebody made up a laser type alignment tool that centered inside the cutlas and shot up to the back of the trans coupler. Kinda like a laser pointer on a rifle bore sight tool. You could center the strut to the log and rough set the engine

-------------
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Probably "LoveJoy " couplers that don't require precision alignment
Lovejoy "Spidex" Jaw Couplings

KenO or somebody made up a laser type alignment tool that centered inside the cutlas and shot up to the back of the trans coupler. Kinda like a laser pointer on a rifle bore sight tool. You could center the strut to the log and rough set the engine


It was Grant MacLaren and his band of old timers that did the laser alignment. There are pictures on CCF or maybe on Grant's website

Edit Here's a link to the CCF thread

http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36461&title=hey-look-theres-an-engine-in-that-boat" rel="nofollow - link


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Fix your profile Pete

Fixed after 12 years! I never noticed the spelling error until Mr. "eagle eye" Ken mentioned it. but, I never go into my profile anyway!!

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:50am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Fix your profile Pete

Fixed after 12 years! I never noticed the spelling error until Mr. "eagle eye" Ken mentioned it. but, I never go into my profile anyway!!


Good job Pete

Somebody else pointed it out to me though didn't you Duane


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:51am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Probably "LoveJoy " couplers that don't require precision alignment
Lovejoy "Spidex" Jaw Couplings

KenO or somebody made up a laser type alignment tool that centered inside the cutlas and shot up to the back of the trans coupler. Kinda like a laser pointer on a rifle bore sight tool. You could center the strut to the log and rough set the engine


It was Grant MacLaren and his band of old timers that did the laser alignment. There are pictures on CCF or maybe on Grant's website

Edit Here's a link to the CCF thread

http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36461&title=hey-look-theres-an-engine-in-that-boat" rel="nofollow - link

Yes, Grant did use a laser but that's for finding the log and coupling center and not the actual coupling face alignment. It's just like CC uses to impress!

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:53am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Fix your profile Pete

Fixed after 12 years! I never noticed the spelling error until Mr. "eagle eye" Ken mentioned it. but, I never go into my profile anyway!!


Now that you can spell it you are one!!! Must have been prior to Spell Check. Betting you still have an Etch A Sketch for a CAD System

-------------
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 10:54am
Is this what a chat room is like?


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 11:27am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Cole,
Your profile says you are a paper mill mechanical engineer. There are hundreds of couplings and shafts in a mill that require alignment. How do you align them? Maybe you could take a look at some and if you don't actually do the alignments ask someone who does for some first hand visuals and pointers. Does you mill utilize laser alignment on couplings and shafts? They sure are handy but unfortunately not practical on our small inboards.


The millwrights do the alignments and our engineering group has nothing to do with them. I am not the machining/mechanic flavor of ME either. If I knew someone here that would do the work for cash and not marina rates I would have just paid to have it done My work is in thermodynamic systems and fluid handling/metering and structural modifications. I have basically no tools of my own because my family had them all up north before I moved down here and I have been extremely rushed when trying to work on this for a variety of reasons I’m not going to post on here. I promise you I am much more competent than my posts would lead you to believe.   I am just not a 20/40/60 year veteran vintage correct craft mechanic. I do appreciate all the help from you guys.


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 11:37am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Cole, if you don't actually do the alignments ask someone who does for some first hand visuals and pointers.

Find a friendly millwright!

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 11:48am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Cole, if you don't actually do the alignments ask someone who does for some first hand visuals and pointers.

Find a friendly millwright!


That’s like finding a taxidermist that isn’t creepy. You guys have provided more than enough information I have just failed to execute.


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 11:53am
Can you guys help me confirm my shaft length so I can get the order in by noon for the new system? Otherwise I won’t get it by next weekend. It’s a ‘76 Martinique (seller told me it was a 78 until I got the title). There is a “50” cut into the shaft near the coupling, would guess that’s the length but don’t want to gamble.


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 1:10pm
Skipped lunch and went home and measured it. 50” tip to tip. ARE will be here next week.


Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 5:43pm
It is money well spent.

Is your prop in good shape too?

-------------
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 5:53pm
Yes. I have 2 3 blades that have both been refurbed and not used yet. One is 13x13 and the other that came with the boat is a 13x14.


Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: April-06-2018 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

... KenO or somebody made up a laser type alignment tool that centered inside the cutlas and shot up to the back of the trans coupler. Kinda like a laser pointer on a rifle bore sight tool. You could center the strut to the log and rough set the engine


Brilliant idea whoever thought of it !! I think I'll use that with my upcoming install. Need something to get the engine fairly close while setting the block in since I have all new mounts (and the originals were no help, since they weren't all that close to begin with)

-------------
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-11-2018 at 4:35pm
Duane or Ken, any details on making the laser alignment tool?


Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-11-2018 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Duane or Ken, any details on making the laser alignment tool?


Go back up to April 6 in this thread and Pete gives you a LINK to click on that takes you to Grants site. Really clever tool. Grant is out of StLouis, Mo. Really innovative guy and very interesting to talk to. BTW, he skied last year at 80 years young!!!!!!



















-------------
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)


Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-11-2018 at 5:01pm
Some one else had adapted one to fit inside strut. Both are very cool.

-------------
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin


Posted By: scorban2
Date Posted: April-12-2018 at 1:09pm
In my debating of whether or not to break my strut free and realign, I'd planned to machine a sleeve so that I could put by .223 boresight tool into the strut. Figure if you centered the engine L/R, you could get the strut closer/easier than trying to use the shaft.


Posted By: pedricd
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 10:49am
Originally posted by scorban2 scorban2 wrote:

In my debating of whether or not to break my strut free and realign, I'd planned to machine a sleeve so that I could put by .223 boresight tool into the strut. Figure if you centered the engine L/R, you could get the strut closer/easier than trying to use the shaft.


I went through this same thing after I bought my 92 SPN. Some advice:

Engine L/R is the last thing to worry about.

ARE definitely is the way to go...so many reasons, you won't regret it... I cut out my old shaft very quickly and easily with a sawzall, nice metal blade and some gear oil...no sparks either (which I would be concerned about with a grinder)

It sounds like you already have the strut bedded in, but are concerned about alignment. The biggest thing here is centering in the log. For whatever reason, after fully tightening everything down with the bedding my shaft shifted off-center in the log to port more than I liked (dry fit was fine!).... If you end up in a similar situation there is a way out of this without pulling the strut off and re-doing everything... Grab a big pipe wrench, put it on the strut and "tweak" it until it is centered...obviously within reason (can't be worse than what's already happened to it!), and use a cloth so you don't gum up your strut. If the shaft is pressed against the log it is probably too off for this and you are better off re-bedding.

If you are off vertically, and not by too much I wouldn't worry it as long as you can get the engine aligned, it doesn't have to be perfect. And don't forget to take a little vertical "strain" off of the shaft when looking through the log when the shaft is free from the transmission as gravity will pull it down slightly from it's "natural" position in the cutlass.

Remember alignment starts at the strut, with a straight shaft through the log (centered) and then you worry about the engine (which I found easier to line up than I thought it would). So from stern forward.

EDIT: Apologies as I didn't realize that scorban was not the original poster, but hopefully above is useful


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 11:02am
Originally posted by pedricd pedricd wrote:

[QUOTE=scorban2] I cut out my old shaft very quickly and easily with a sawzall, nice metal blade and some gear oil...no sparks either (which I would be concerned about with a grinder)


Why would that be?

Both of them have electric motors that spark when you're using them.....................and the shaft is Stainless Steel.

No difference in using a metal cutting blade in your Sawzall or a cutoff wheel on the shaft as far as sparks go.


Posted By: pedricd
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 11:31am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:


No difference in using a metal cutting blade in your Sawzall or a cutoff wheel on the shaft as far as sparks go.


I stand corrected :), probably an unfounded concern (don't have lots of SS cutting experience)... Either way you go, should be short work


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 12:04pm
I think I should stand corrected.

One of those little voices in my head said I was all screwed up

SS does spark, I just tried it and did a little reading too.

The wheel probably gives off more sparks than the metal cutting blade in the Sawzall, when cutting the shaft, but they probably both cause sparks

I've cut them with a grinder without any issues.


Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

I think I should stand corrected.

One of those little voices in my head said I was all screwed up

SS does spark, I just tried it and did a little reading too.

The wheel probably gives off more sparks than the metal cutting blade in the Sawzall, when cutting the shaft, but they probably both cause sparks

I've cut them with a grinder without any issues.


It's more dependent upon the grade or alloy of S/S. ie. the carbon content
Even if it does not spark the debris given off will melt into carpet or upholstery So be careful and cover any areas you don't want harmed

-------------
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 2:15pm
So I used a steering wheel/harmonic balancer puller to get my old shaft out. I had the puller already and I didn't want to fool around with cutting the shaft or pressing it out against the trans flange. In the future I may have a local shop straighten and cut a double taper on the old shaft.

I sent the 5200 back to Amazon because there is no way I want to ever try and remove the recessed strut with that stuff in between. There was no sealant used before and it didn't leak. I used 4200 instead. Used the old shaft to get my strut bent straight so the shaft came naturally through the center of the log. I am very satisfied with the alignment in this regard.

So all that is done and the new shaft is in the boat with coupler installed. I checked the alignment following Pete's video. This is where I want input to make sure I did it correctly, as it was the source of MASSIVE confusion for all parties earlier in the thread (because I measured with the bolts somewhat tight).

Here is how I measured parallelism between the 2 coupler faces.

1. Installed 4 bolts and nuts and tightened them so the system was fully assembled.
2. Loosened the nuts off by about 3/8" so they were not engaged on the washers.
3. Wiggled the shaft side a little bit so there was clearance for feeler gauges
4. Measured gap around circumference.

Top-.       0.015"
Left-       0.012"
Right-     0.012
Bottom- 0.009"

To me this would indicate that Left/Right alignment is good and that I need to raise the front and/or lower the back to decrease the 0.006" difference.

Do the bolts need to be fully removed to take this measurement? In Petes video it appeared that they were just loosened. Also, in the video I am not able to see the engine mounts as references are made to them.

Can someone give me a clear description of the nut that needs to be loosened prior to turning the vertical threaded rod used for vertical adjustment? I read somewhere else it is 15/16", is that correct (have to buy wrench)?

Do you think I'll have to adjust both front and back mounts or can I just lower the back mounts to make up the 0.006" difference.?

Thanks


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 2:33pm
It’s not clear from your description if you’re still missing the point- it seems quite possible that you are.

Due to the give in the strut bearing, it is very easy to move the shaft (at the coupler end) around significantly. It will sag low under its own weight. You need to assess the concentricity of the shaft/log while the shaft is positioned such that it is spinning easily in the strut. If that last sentence did not make sense, read it again until you do (you wouldn’t be the first to miss this very important point). If you miss it, anything done after this point is time spent dialing in potentially massive misalignment.

When evaluating shaft to powertrain alignment, again, the shaft needs to be in the position where it spins freely. Some people like to find that spot and lock the shaft in place (with some support to prevent it from sagging). I prefer to constantly turn it by hand (spinning via the shaft itself or the coupler). If it doesn’t want to turn by hand, it is not aligned in the strut. The reason you don’t install the bolts between the faces when aligning is because it is very easy to move that shaft position to the wrong place, and the bolts just make it that much easier to keep it there. It also screws up the face to face measurement. The inner engagement on the couplers is enough to keep the faces in the ballpark as you measure.


Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 2:43pm
My mounts needed the 15/16" wrench. Harbor Freight is about the cheapest. You may need to play with both the front and back to get right. I like to pull the shaft back out of the trans coupler and rotate 180* and then pull it back into the coupler and double check the clearances again. The shaft will normally flop around a bit because of cutlas clearance   Sounds as though you are getting close.

edit: Typed too slow. Tim explained it better

-------------
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)


Posted By: pedricd
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 2:53pm
I second the 4200...although others say you can get 5200 off with a hot wire.

I did this without the bolts, I recommend the same. I pressed the coupler together by hand, check tolerances, pulled apart the couplers, rotated the prop shaft by hand a bit, push back together and check again (I did this several times). You should get consistent readings, which confirms that everything is true (shaft etc). That's step one to make sure the shaft is straight. If you haven't done so already make sure you transferred the collar on the shaft from the old to the new so it cannot slide out of the boat if it snaps while driving.

Now for aligning the motor: I would start by concentrating on the rear mounts, make small adjustments, push the coupler together, check it, and repeat.

It's hard to tell from here, but it looks like you need to drop the back-end of the motor a bit. Start there, again small nudges check... once you get the hang of it it is not too bad.

I also agree with the others, make sure when you are pushing the coupler together that the shaft is in it's "natural" and freeist position vertically in regards to the cutlass. You should not be forcing the couplers to connect they should just slide together (while having to lift the shaft slightly to neutral).


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:



Here is how I measured parallelism between the 2 coupler faces.

Top-.       0.015"
Bottom- 0.009"

Do you think I'll have to adjust both front and back mounts or can I just lower the back mounts to make up the 0.006" difference.?

Thanks

Cole,
Yes, you will need to adjust the height of both the fore and aft mounts. If you adjust just say the fore mounts or just the aft mounts, it changes the height/center line of the trans coupling and in turn that changes the height of the prop shaft. You need to keep that "happy spot" where the prop shaft turns freely in the cutlass.

You're getting there!

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

It’s not clear from your description if you’re still missing the point- it seems quite possible that you are.

.


Yes I understand it. Throughout this entire process I thought it was strange that the video (8:30 mark) showed the alignment being checked with bolts in place. My thought was that the bolts prevent the shaft from going to its happy place. That part of the video was what I was going off, against my intuition, before you guys ripped me to shreds for testing with the feelers with the bolts tight.

I spent about 3 hours getting the strut bent and shimmed to get it to where it is. It is as close to perfect as I could get it. The shaft spins the most freely while in the center of the log. I can push it to the side or let it sag down under it's own weight, but I can feel the resistance growing as I deviate from the center of the log.   I have it supported with a wood block that I cut a V notch in, it allows me to spin the shaft freely by hand while staying concentric in the log, while preventing sag caused by shaft and coupler weight.

In my case right now the natural position of the shaft coupler is in line with the trans, meaning the bolts do not hold it from going up and down or side to side. I understand what you mean by being able force it in to place. When my old shaft and strut were bent and I unbolted the coupler, the shaft side moved over half an inch. These issues have all been addressed and remedied. I spent about 3 hours bending and shimming the strut to get it to this condition.

So is it agreed that the bolts should not even be inserted when checking the face to face alignment?

I would be interested to see someone use the hotwire method on a strut with 5200 that is recessed into the hull.

When I get home I will totally remove the bolts and see if my measurement can be duplicated.

So to raise and lower the mounts I just loosed the 15/16" lock nut and then make the adjustments via the square topped threaded rod? Then retighten the lock nut when I am done?


Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

. So is it agreed that the bolts should not even be inserted when checking the face to face alignment?

When I get home I will totally remove the bolts and see if my measurement can be duplicated.

So to raise and lower the mounts I just loosed the 15/16" lock nut and then make the adjustments via the square topped threaded rod? Then retighten the lock nut when I am done?


As long as the bolts don't influence your setup then it really doesn't matter either way
Yes on the 15/16" procedure as you described
Proceed as you are, you are doing great

-------------
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

. So is it agreed that the bolts should not even be inserted when checking the face to face alignment?
When I get home I will totally remove the bolts and see if my measurement can be duplicated.


As long as the bolts don't influence your setup then it really doesn't matter either way

Proceed as you are, you are doing great

Cole,
As Duane states, the bolts can stay but, they need to be loose so you can get the feeler gauges between the flanges. I'm glad you now understand the measurements between the flanges are used to check parallelism

Sorry about the video showing the flange bolts. Understand the mini seminar was at a GL reunion and we didn't want to take Alan's boat apart hence all the props I made up!! You also may have noticed I didn't start wrenching on his engine mounts!! Keith also restricted me to 20 minutes!

BTW, speaking of GL, are you considering it? It's sure convenient for you.

-------------
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 5:11pm
Ok thanks. I should be all good then.


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 5:13pm
I understand Pete’s point on the bolts, but highly recommend you remove them while doing the alignment.

I constantly re-confirm that the shaft is spinning freely while checking the parallelism of the faces. A few quick turns and a re-measure of the spacing will confirm that your readings are accurate (and not due to some imperfection in one of the coupler faces or radius).


Posted By: wiscofoot
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 7:35pm
Got it. Is there an easy way to get pics onto here off an iPhone? I can show you guys the aftermath of the impact that has led me to join this forum and go through all this.

-------------
1976 Martinique


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 9:23pm
I have always had to email my pics to my personal computer and upload them on this site from my PC. If there is a short cut to this method I am all ears.
While spinning the shaft and checking alignment I always put a small amount of lube on the two faces to reduce drag and help them mate consistently.   I have used WD40 it worked.
I removed my strut which was bedded with 5200 without too much issue.
I banged in some wood door wedges and they popped mine off.   
I keep a very sharp gasket scraper in my tool box for cleaning up head gasket surfaces.
It took the old 5200 right off my fiberglass quickly.
I used my wire wheel to remove the 5200 still on the strut.
I put it back on with 5200 because I did not see the big deal cleaning it off.
Like you I had to work to get the strut in the happy place. Sanding the strut mount face to a better angle helped and even then I had to add washers to get where I needed.
Maybe it was the right tool available that helped.
The prop guard on my trailer worked well to mount the magnetic mount dial indicator to verify the prop shaft was true.
Glad you have almost completed it.

-------------
!



Print Page | Close Window