New Carburetor
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42621
Printed Date: April-29-2024 at 9:36am
Topic: New Carburetor
Posted By: Eric Harrell
Subject: New Carburetor
Date Posted: April-15-2018 at 9:57pm
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Hi all.. I am going to buy a new holley carb for my 78 SN. 351 Windsor.. I am looking at a conversion holley made at National Carburetor. The new conversion(shown in the pictures) are built from a new Holley 0-80457-SA, and has been completely converted to a 0-80319 Marine unit using all new Holley Marine components to make this unit US Coast Guard compliant. By doing this conversion we can offer this new light weight aluminum unit for hundreds of dollars less. Has anyone purchased one of these? Thanks Eric ------------- Easyyelp |
Replies:
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-15-2018 at 10:20pm
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Several of us are running QFT Quick Fuel Technology carbs. They have been bought out by Holley. Very nice carbs. Use the marine versions ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-15-2018 at 10:43pm
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Never mind ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: April-15-2018 at 11:08pm
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+1 for QuickFuel. Go with their M-600. It is a Holley 4160 with several upgrades: - External float adjustment hardware - Fuel bowl sight window - Replaceable jets in secondary metering block - Replaceable air bleeds If you like a double-pumper, you can go with the M-650. It's more ca$h but a very nice carb. If I had to do it all over again, I would opt for the M-650 (even though I don't really need the extra CFM capacity). JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 9:14am
I guess nobody wants to answer the question you asked  They just want to recommend a QFT M-600 instead. Looking at the prices, you'll be paying 450 plus shipping for the converted carb from National or you can easily find the QFT for 495 with free shipping.. Myself, I don't have any experience with the conversion carb and for the little bit extra for the QFT, this should be almost a no brainer to go with the QFT. They've been around a while and have a good track record. Of course somebody will probably ask why you can't rebuild yours, get it rebuilt or buy a rebuilt Holley if you want to save some money, but based on previous posts it looks like you have a 450 Holley and want to put a 600 on it. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 10:24am
Eric, Are you doing other engine modifications? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
KENO wrote:Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 10:48am
| A 450 would not be appropriate for a 351w, the 600cfm would have been original equipment. |
Posted By: Eric Harrell
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 12:50pm
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I pulled my boat out last summer when i found out I had wrong carb..this is realy the only issue I have fought other then general stuff.. So what is a QFT....and where do I buy one??.. Just want to make sure it works for this boat Thanks for the help Eric ------------- Easyyelp |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 12:57pm
Quick Fuel Technologies,, You can find them at Summit, Jeg's etc and the price seems to be 495 bucks with free shipping. Look at the Quick Fuel web page for info too. Here's a link to the 600 https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/quick_fuel/marine/parts/M-600" rel="nofollow - link You'll need a new fuel line with the QFT carb due to the bowl design. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 1:09pm
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Here's a link to a thread with fuel line info and as it mentions in the thread the flame arrestor may or may not clear the external float adjusting screws depending on you flame arrestor. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38633&PN=1&title=quick-fuel-carb-install-questions" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-19-2018 at 10:09am
Good info Ken, a simple spacer below the arrestor would clear the float adjustment if you run into that issue. Other than that and the fuel line every one I have installed (besides one that was warrantied) will almost run just right out of the box with no tuning even down to idle RPM. Bolt it on as it comes out of the box and see if it will run then tune one part at a time from there. In my experience you can't get the front float level to the middle of the site glass (probably due to engine angle). The throttle response is fantastic and the cold or hot starts are nearly like EFI when tuned correctly. You won't regret spending the cash on one of these. |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: April-19-2018 at 4:31pm
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THese engines all came with the same holley 600. Did holley pre set these for the angle of the engine or did someone at PCM do it? I replaced my carburetor a couple of years ago with new holley (not needed by the way) and I did nothing to it out of the box. I do however suspect it is dripping since my rear cylinders are wet. I have no idea how to set it for the angle of the carburetor. Seems it should have a leveling shim. What have you others done? |
Posted By: Butter77
Date Posted: April-19-2018 at 10:19pm
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I'll agree with the Quickfuel. I did a rebuild on my old Holley after having an issue running way too rich. Needless to say the rebuild didn't do a damn thing to help and I've struggled since then. Finally got tired of beating my head against the wall and slapped on a M600. When folks say it works straight out of the box they ain't kiddin! I've got a Holley doorstopper if anyone needs one. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7270&sort=&pagenum=1/" rel="nofollow - 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: April-20-2018 at 1:24am
Yes, I've heard of National Carburetors. They're out of Jacksonville, FL. $200 to rebuild your old carb or $320 to buy one of theirs that has been rebuilt. You need to weigh those "rebuilt" costs against a new Holley 4160 ($595) or a new QuickFuel M-600 ($495). For my hard earned dollar$ I'd go with new vs. rebuilt. The carb is the lungs of your engine and the distributor is the heart. If either of those are less than optimal, your engine will not perform up to its potential. Scrimping on a carb is not a good gamble in my book. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: April-20-2018 at 11:00am
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U used National years ago. Rochesters. One the did perfect, the other they did not. Had to return a couple of times then wound up fixing some of the external errors myself. |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: April-20-2018 at 4:28pm
| Holley tech guy said I should use a wedge spacer. they have 7 and 12 degree, any of you use one? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-20-2018 at 7:58pm
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Duane in Indy did a spacer on his 302 Halfway down page 3 of http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38009&PN=3&title=mustang-17-rebuild" rel="nofollow - this thread |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-20-2018 at 8:03pm
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Holman Moody used a wedge,when I changed to a 4bbl I got another. Carb sits level. Moved carb to a PCM motor, they don't use them,they use a straight spacer and had to readjust so it would run clean. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-20-2018 at 11:53pm
Most cars are set up with 5* of angle on intake manifold Most boats are set up with 15* of angle. Do the math. 10* angled spacer would be about right ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: WinterTurtle
Date Posted: April-22-2018 at 1:06pm
I'll be reassembling my Holley this week and remembered this thread while I was staring at my intake on Saturday. Is there a consensus on how important / beneficial angled spacers are for the PCM application? ------------- 1979 Southwind 18 351w Not Running - All Potential! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-22-2018 at 1:15pm
Sounds like it didn't have a angled spacer originally. How has it performed without one?
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-22-2018 at 2:52pm
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Boats are set up using automotive intake manifolds which are milled at 5* as previously stated. Auto engines are set in at about 5* and then the intake angle of -5* puts the carb back level. Boats as stated are set in at 15*. That puts a lot of angle on the carb base as you have seen on yours. As others have said "personal preference" I prefer mine level. Floats are then set up properly;. Your choice edit added pic .  ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-22-2018 at 3:05pm
Duane, OK, I'm struggling with the math! How many degrees do you add for the pitch of the boat when it's underway?  Many of our hulls including yours run bow high. That no longer puts the carb level. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: WinterTurtle
Date Posted: April-22-2018 at 3:20pm
I haven't had it running yet  but hopefully in the next ~10 days I'll be ready to give her a try.If that's how CC built them then I'll not second guess. I'm just trusting the 'all original' vibe I got at first now that I'm seeing bad splices and duct tape and goofy workarounds for soft wood. Sorry if I am being somewhat redundant. I am gradually seeing how much nautical specific knowledge I'm lacking as I tinker around with mine. Maybe I'll ask what kind of oil is best next  ------------- 1979 Southwind 18 351w Not Running - All Potential! |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-22-2018 at 3:28pm
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[QUOTED] OK, I'm struggling with the math! How many degrees do you add for the pitch of the boat when it's underway? Many of our hulls including yours run bow high. That no longer puts the carb level. [/QUOTE] Bow position depends whether I'm in forward or reverse. Just leave it stock and you'll be fine If it gives you trouble later then shim it Get it back in the water and have fun ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-22-2018 at 3:35pm
The issue you will run into is PCM uses their standard spacer as the PCV vacuum source, as far as I know there are no aftermarket angled spacers that have that port. I was able to make my own using a phenolic wedge,drilling a hole in the back to glue in a tube to connect the hose,then routing grooves in the base to the primary side to supply the vacuum copying the Holman Moody aluminum 2 bbl style. http://imgbox.com/i6i2At0q" rel="nofollow">  http://imgbox.com/03jhUCe7" rel="nofollow">  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: WinterTurtle
Date Posted: April-22-2018 at 4:47pm
Duane- Your studs look quite plumb to the carb mounting surface of the wedge. Did you rebore the the stud holes while you had the manifold in the shop? I am wondering if there are any easy ways to correct stud angle. ------------- 1979 Southwind 18 351w Not Running - All Potential! |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: April-23-2018 at 11:37am
| Guessing the biggest issue with changing carburetor angle and spacer size is going to be the hard fuel line. What did others do regarding this issue? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-23-2018 at 8:41pm
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Some people have rebent the original line enough to fit. Some have used USCG approved A1-15 rubber fuel line. Sierra sells a couple one is part number 18-8115 it's 25 inches long another is 18-8114 and it's 31 inches long. Or you can make your own out of the same A1-15 hose or bend up some 3/8 tubing. Here's a good link with links to the coast guard regs and the ABYC talking about fuel systems. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38399&title=holley-4160-bowl-screws-stuck" rel="nofollow - link You might notice that Pete did some learnin' about USCG regs in the linked thread
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Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-23-2018 at 9:44pm
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FWIW. I run a length of "fire sleeve" over my gas line from the pump to the carb. Not only gives some fire protection but also insulates the line and helps guard against vapor lock. ALL of my fuel lines on my Experimental aircraft have fire sleeves on them. Cheap insurance. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-23-2018 at 9:54pm
It's another pick on Pete Day!! Ken, Yes, I did learn something thanks' to you. I must have been misinformed by info off the internet or, come to think about it, another member who doesn't visit with us much anymore. BTW, I did have to replace my hard line to the carb on the 302. I bought the PCM and did have to do some slight re bending at the carb since the PO put a wedge spacer under it. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 1:10pm
| I may try to bend the hard tube, it is new and don't want to throw it out. Second choice would be hvac copper tube, Got to dig out my flair tool and get a new tube bender. Last will be rubber hose. |
Posted By: scootdogydog
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 1:36pm
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https://www.overtons.com/product/details?pdesc=Sierra-Fuel-Line-Sierra-Part-18-8115&i=317459" rel="nofollow - fuel line I updated this so Pete can add this along with tubes to his cart. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7183" rel="nofollow - 1999 Python 1980 Ski Tique 1968 Mustang WIP |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 1:51pm
Steve, http://www.skidim.com/FUEL-LINE-PCM-302_351-FORD/productinfo/RA085002B/" rel="nofollow - Here's a link to the pre made hard line. Scott's took me to Overtons search page and all they sell are tubes!! I 'd stick with the pre made since it's steel. I don't know if the copper would meet the regs. I'm sure Ken would know! BTW, how are you at making double flares? The line is inverted double flared. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 2:33pm
Ken knows that the answer is in the regs and the easier reading ABYC guide. Try page 52 of the ABYC guide. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 2:56pm
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And where might we find the aforementioned guide? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:05pm
Ken, Still going through the guide but page 52 + covers from the tank to the engine. It states "to the engine" is typically the "fuel pump". So, give me a page hint for the line from the pump to the carb. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:07pm
| You could go to a link earlier in this thread that takes you to a thread with the link or you could click right about http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/AssetManager/ABYC.1002.01.pdf" rel="nofollow - here |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:12pm
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Page 52 about 5/8 of the way down the page they cleverly tuck in the fuel pump to carburetor line. It says "Metal fuel lines used on the engine, i.e. the fuel line from the fuel pump to the carburetor, may be made of materials other than those listed. This line is usually supplied with the engine". |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:18pm
| I have brass on my boat. I think it came directly from PCM a few years back. |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:47pm
| The off the shelf tube isn't going to be made for the wedge, original tube is designed to hook up to a carb that is angled back, move it level and its off by 12degrees. My steel tube is New, I will try to bend it to fit otherwise copper will be second choice and Yes I did read the USGC regs and verified the type. Seamless annealed copper which is HVAC tube. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:52pm
Steve, You missed it:
Again, how's your double flaring skills? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:53pm
Thanks Ken. Yup, the statement is tucked in there. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:01pm
Scott, I like this one, looks well made and will take care of the bending issues plus no need for barb fittings. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:03pm
 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:11pm
| Double flair only has one more step outside of a single, whats hard about that especially on copper. The sierra part doesn't appear to be a double flair. Isnt the double for higher pressure? got to look it up I guess. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:51pm
Steve, Well the last time I made a double, I'm glad I practiced on some extra tubing first. I always find that even with the gauge, getting the proper distance of tubing clamped into the flare tool is the hard part. If you make double enough, it's easy. Do you make them frequently? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 4:57pm
Good point on not being hard to do. Just need the correct tool. Yes on the dbl flare for high pressure. Another type uses a single flare but has a "flared sleeve" that mates up with the flared tube. We use that type on the race car a lot because you can tighten and loosen multiple times with out affecting the integrity of the tube flare. NHRA and other sanctioning bodies allow the use of aluminum fuel lines but prohibits copper. Don't know bout USCG. Seems to me that I read somewhere that the USCG rules only apply to waters that they govern. Different can of worms.  ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 5:13pm
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Need to use approved stuff for the ins company. if anything happens and you have a part that isn't approved then an exclusion in the policy will likely bounce your claim. If its USCG approved then it is insurance company approved. I am not aware of a body of water in the US and territorial waters that are not under USCG authority. They are the feds, trump all local and state. |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-24-2018 at 6:20pm
Probably a smart idea to follow their regs anyway, then you are covered. Little off topic: Our Funny Car inlet fuel line from the tank to the pump is Aluminum 3" diameter!! 15 gallons in 5 seconds ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Eric Harrell
Date Posted: May-27-2018 at 9:03am
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Ok.. I am back .. New QFT installed.. on the 78.. runs much better.... but.. it still seems to struggle out of the whole.. could a bad pic valve prevent the secondaries from opening. I also have a lot of slack in the throttle cable.. but the carb is still going wide open..?? Anyone interested in my old 450cfm holley? Thanks guys ------------- Easyyelp |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: May-27-2018 at 3:18pm
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Eric: If the engine runs well -- except for hole-shot -- I would look at accelerator pump and engine timing. What is your current degrees of advance at idle? With the accelerator pump, the instant that the throttle linkage moves, the accelerator pump must start to engage. No delay. Also, there are different cam profiles that will modify how the accelerator pump engages: duration, volume, timing, etc:. You may want to watch the video below for some good tips. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMKxD_OFuCA" rel="nofollow - VIDEO LINK JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |