89 nautique 351 and pcm 40
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42723
Printed Date: April-29-2024 at 10:18am
Topic: 89 nautique 351 and pcm 40
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Subject: 89 nautique 351 and pcm 40
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 11:24am
| I have an 89 Ford 351 and a pcm 40. I just bout this ski nautique and I took it out to the river yesterday to test it out. Ran well for about 40 minutes and then I noticed the seal on the input shaft started to push out alittle bit. Fluid was the correct amount. Also the after spins while in neutral? Is that common. And then all of a sudden I lost forward gears. And yes I unhooked the shifter cable and tried to manually shift it on the transmission. Oil cooler seemed to work well. Reverse still works. Any input? Thank you |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 11:46am
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Matt, From your description, it sounds like you're going to have to open up the trans to find out exactly what happened. The input seal pushing out is typical of a worn pump. How many hours are on the trans? You mention the fluid level was correct but was the color good and did it small burnt at all? Welcome to CCfan. |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 12:01pm
| I got paperwork from the previous owner showing a trans rebuild in May of 2016 so I would not think to many hours are on the rebuilt trans. Boat and motor are right at 600. Rebuilt at Fantastic Finishes in Medina Ohio. Have heard pretty good things about them. Trans fluid seemed a good color and didn’t smell burnt at all. How do you tell if the pump is good or not? Seemed to circulate oil through the trans cooler well. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 12:32pm
How'd you notice this since you can't see it? Do you mean that you started seeing fluid leakage from the bottom of the bell housing? You say you lost forward only and reverse works, so your pump is functioning if that's the case Is the shaft slowly spinning in neutral, like slow enough you could stop the spinning with a 2X4 against the shaft or is it moving at the same speed as the engine. |
Wenzingerm wrote:Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 12:37pm
| I meant to say the output shaft seal is getting pushed out. And yes I still have reverse and have just lost forward. And yes just a very slow spin can be stopped easily. |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 12:59pm
I got paperwork from the previous owner showing a trans rebuild in May of 2016 so I would not think to many hours are on the rebuilt trans. Boat and motor are right at 600. Rebuilt at Fantastic Finishes in Medina Ohio. Have heard pretty good things about them. Trans fluid seemed a good color and didn’t smell burnt at all. How do you tell if the pump is good or not? Seemed to circulate oil through the trans cooler well. |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 1:01pm
I meant to say the output shaft seal is getting pushed out. And yes I still have reverse and have just lost forward. And yes just a very slow spin can be stopped easily. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 4:08pm
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Did you have slipping or any loud groaning noises as forward was going away? |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 4:21pm
No noises at all. One time just went to go to forward and the trans never went in gear. Plan on pulling it here in a couple hours. |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 4:37pm
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I rebuilt my 71 series myself. Pretty good understanding how it works. Simply a high pressure oil pump and the valve directs pressurized fluid to the large reverse piston or the forward one. If the pump is warn I suspect it would result in lower pressure. Not clear how it would work in reverse and not in forward. Also not clear how the rear seal on the transmission would be pushing out as a result of lower oil pressure unless it is not getting lubricated and burning out but suspect it would show signs of this. Yes it believe it has to come off but first I would contact the guy who built is and ask him. Also is there any type of warranty? suspect it would have been 90 days or up to a year so likely it is out but doesn't hurt to ask. Reputable guy may not charge if it was defective if you bring it to him out of the boat. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 4:43pm
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Probably a good plan as far as pulling it. Shierh may have rebuilt his Borg Warner but that not spelled PCM. They're a little different animal. Like he said, I'd get in touch with Fantastic Finishes |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 5:35pm
I’m just about to work on pulling the trans out. I’ll forsure get in touch with the place that rebuilt it. I haven’t heard to many good things about the pcm trans. What other models of transmissions would work on a 89 351? This is a right hand engine correct? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 6:18pm
I didn't say lower pressure but rather "worn" and also mentioned the front seal
|
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 7:45pm
Supposed to be a standard left rotation engine,the trans changes the direction to a right hand prop. I don't think they are any worse than any other trans,parts are just more expensive. The 40 has been updated to the 80A.Skidim has them for 2,212 for the whole new kit- http://www.skidim.com/PCM-80-Series-Kits/products/1182/ - link 4th one down. they do offer a discount too. |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 7:50pm
I see those trans all seem to be the 1:23:1 And the pcm 40 that is in it now is a 1:1. What is the difference here? Thank you |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-04-2018 at 11:13pm
| I will have to let others who know that year boat answer. I thought they all got the 1.23 to 1 by then,but maybe yours is the decontented model The 1.23 has the output shaft at a 9 degree down angle so that the engine sits level in the boat and it uses a left hand rotation engine and turns the propshaft right. If yours is a 1:1, the prop spins the same direction as the engine- usually a righty in Correct Crafts |
Posted By: bb12
Date Posted: May-05-2018 at 12:10am
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An 89 should have a 1:23 to 1 ------------- 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-05-2018 at 11:45am
| I’m not sure then the trans that is in it says 1:1 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-05-2018 at 12:06pm
What's that old saying................a picture is worth a thousand words. Take a few,  Engine, transmission and the HIN on the transom so you can verify the year. |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-05-2018 at 5:29pm
| Does anyone know how to do an air test to check the clutches on the pcm 40? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-05-2018 at 5:38pm
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Matt, I've never heard of using air but that doesn't mean the test doesn't exist. I do know that Eric the original owner of Fantastic Finish Marine used to chuck up his rebuilds in his lathe so he could check the pump to make sure it developed the proper pressure. Tell us more about the air test if you can. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-05-2018 at 5:40pm
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I forgot to ask, have you been able to confirm the trans ratio? Do you know if the boat has ever been re powered? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-05-2018 at 9:16pm
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FWIW you could pull out the valve spool & check the orings. Not much else you can do to fix it yourself. You already know it doesn't work, the question is why! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-05-2018 at 10:28pm
Yes the ratio is 1:1 I guess it isn’t original. And I did pull the trans today and take it all apart. Clutches and everything seem to be in really well shape. |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-05-2018 at 10:35pm
I went through the trans today and didn’t find anything wrong. Just pretty dirty inside. I’m thinking that some dirt got in the control valve and clogged it up. Nothing else I can think of why it would be working perfectly fine and then all of the sudden not go into forward but still have oil pressure to go into reverse |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-06-2018 at 7:17am
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Matt, Now that you confirmed the ratio, I'm curious as to the engine/prop rotation. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-06-2018 at 4:01pm
The motor runs clockwise rotation. |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-06-2018 at 4:29pm
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[QUOTE=8122pbrainard] Matt, Now that you confirmed the ratio, I'm curious as to the engine/prop rotation. [/QUOTE ] Thank you for trying to help me figure out my problem. I have a Ford 351 with the pcm 40 trans ratio 1:1. The first problem I had when I first ran the boat was the output seal was pushing out. What would cause this? Tore it apart and put a new seal in it and it did the same thing. After messing with that and running it out of the water. We decided to take it to the river just to make sure everything was working. Ran really well for about 45 minutes and then all of the sudden we were unable to shift into forward. Reverse still worked. I ended up pulling the trans Friday night and spilt it apart Saturday and didn’t find anything wrong with it at all looked to be pretty much brand new. Fantastic finishes in Ohio rebuilt it two years ago and I do not believe it had many hours since that. I am thinking that a piece of the gasket maker got somewhere in the trans and pulled it up not allowing oil to get on the other side of the clutches to put it into forward. That’s the only thing I could think of. A transmission guy is going to look through it tomorrow and double check everything. Any thoughts? Thank you |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-06-2018 at 5:52pm
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Any thoughts? Yea forget the trans guy use the money and put it towards a new trans, the one that is supposed to be in it- the 1.23 to 1. A picture of your prop would be very helpful. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-06-2018 at 5:57pm
If you're looking at the front of the engine, then it's a standard LH rotation. As Gary asked, a picture of the prop would be great. And as Ken mentioned, a picture of the trans would be great too. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: May-06-2018 at 11:30pm
I have pictures still trying to figure out how to upload them here.. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-07-2018 at 9:18am
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Matt, For posting pictures, click on ether the "post reply" or the "full reply editor" (the arrow icon above the regular reply). Then click the icon of the tree with the up arrow. A browse box will come up allowing you to select the picture off your computer. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-10-2018 at 9:18am
Matt, Have you tried the uploading yet? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-01-2018 at 5:33pm
| I'm kinda curious how this might have turned out |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 11:30am
| I pulled the trans out and went through it and after a couple days I found the problem. When the shop rebuilt it the rear of the trans case must have had a worn spot so they machined it out and put a sleeve in right where the oil port pushes oil to the rear of the trans to push the clutches into forward so finally after it figuring out that i spun that sleeve I called the shop and that confirmed that they did put a sleeve in it. So I took it to that shop for them to put a new one in it and it’s been almost a month and I haven’t heard a work from them getting alittle impatient. Anyone heard of doing this? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 11:48am
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Matt, Sorry to hear about what you found but glad you did find the problem. When you do get the engine/trans back in the boat, make sure you do a proper strut/shaft/trans alignment. It sounds like the rear output bearing spun at one time requiring the case to be sleeved. and I'd say bad alignment was the cause. I do remember Eric, a past member who did own Fantastic Finish Marine back a few years, say he would sleeve housings at times but he wasn't specific to where or what brand trans. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-04-2018 at 12:06pm
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Have you talked to them since you dropped it off? Here's a fairly recent post from the guy running the place now talking about customer service http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42393&KW=&title=ffi-marine-has-moved-to-a-new-location" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 8:24pm
Yeah I have called a couple times since I dropped it off going to be month this Thursday. Wouldn’t say the service has been the best. Just wanting my trans back now thinking about going to pick it up and take it to a different shop if I don’t hear from him by the end of the week. Last week when I called in to just check on what was going on and how it was going I was told to quit calling and I’ll give you a call when it is done. |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 8:29pm
Yes I do agree this was caused from a bad alignment. the cause was the motor and trans came out of a boat with bad stringers in it, causing the motor to twist and throw it out of align. I’m hoping when he put the trans back together he will go through and check it out but I do have a question concerning the control valve assembly. Okay so I relized that how the valve has the pressure relief with the sting on it. I was reading that added washers are shins are too change the pressure. They are reccemending Atleast two washers and mine had 0. Not sure if I should put some in or what pressure the trans should exactly be having internally? Thank you for all the help |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 9:13pm
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Matt, Hopefully FFM will test the trans. Eric used to chuck his up in his lathe and spin them. I feel that's the time to check the pressure of the pump and add washers for the correct pressure if needed. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-05-2018 at 9:59pm
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Do you have a PCM manual for the 40 series transmissions? If you don't and you click on the link below, then you will Pages 6 19 and 22 might come in handy for pressures and shim info Courtesy of the good people at Ski Dim https://www.skidim.com/images/L510007_.pdf" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: June-06-2018 at 2:09am
I’m about fed up with FFM they have had my trans for a month and haven’t even gotten around to doing anything with it after we quoted me a week and $70 to put a new sleeve in it. Haven’t heard from him since |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: June-06-2018 at 2:13am
Yes I have the manual and I’ll have to go a lot more reading to do it myself. Does anyone know of anyone else that would be able to sleeve a trans with a pretty quick turn around? Not real worried about the price I really sit want to get my botul and running. Joe at fantastic finishes has had my trans for a month and hasn’t gotten a chance to touch it or get it stopped off at the shop to get the sleeve put in and I’m getting alittle bit annoyed |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-06-2018 at 8:40am
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I noticed that he was logged in last night, but obviously didn't reply to this thread. It sounds like an in person conversation is needed, then you can walk out with your parts if not satisfied. It also sounds like he was the middle man and was gonna drop it off at a machine shop to get the sleeve repair done from what you said above. It seems like you could do that |
Posted By: Wenzingerm
Date Posted: June-06-2018 at 9:17am
| I sent him a message last night hoping to figure it out soon. But if anyone has a pcm 40 1:1 case for sale or a parts trans for sale I am interested |
Posted By: Faceplant
Date Posted: November-09-2018 at 10:58pm
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I have a trans that I want rebuilt . Just out of curiosity , is FFM on the good or bad list these days ? From what I gather they were at one time top notch but lately seems like they have become kind of laxidasical . Am I right with my statement ? Thought ? ------------- Feels like I am hanging 10 but in reality - probably hanging 6. |