G boat problems?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42987
Printed Date: April-27-2024 at 6:33pm
Topic: G boat problems?
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Subject: G boat problems?
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 12:37pm
Has anyone heard about prop shaft breaking problems CC is having? I know of one up here that's on it's 5th shaft since last season. I wonder if I need to go over to the dealer and see if they know how to do an alignment!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Replies:
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 1:23pm
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Yea big topic on PN in the past still happens every now and then,but 2015 I think were the big years. They are breaking between the strut and prop. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 1:34pm
| sounds like shaft size isnt correct. Bigger engines, bigger props etc. Wake board tanks with lots of load. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 1:47pm
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They increased the shaft size and it still happens. Google planet nautique g23 drive shaft issues if you want to see pictures. I have a theory that it's the crappy music they play while surfing, prop says I'm outa here...... 5th shaft a season up there must average every time they go out,ice chunks caught between hull and prop? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: bb12
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 1:56pm
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Yep.. I’m on one of the Nautique Owners Facebook pages and it seems somebody is posting about this happening every few weeks. Matter of fact...this was posted this morning.  ------------- 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 2:04pm
| I believe that all G boats now have 1-1/4” shafts- the 550hp SC still has the 1.5:1 v-drive but the lower engine options have 2:1 reduction and they all need that big shaft with the amount of torque they’re putting to the prop. I think the very early production boats may have used 1-1/8” and the fix is to upsize. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 2:09pm
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Gary, Thanks, I was just over on PN and the 1&1/4"s are breaking too. Same spot were the key way begins weakening the shaft. Maybe they should try forgoing the keyway and just lap the prop to the shaft.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 2:33pm
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I thought it looks like 1/4 “ out from the key way start but not seeing one in person it’s just speculation. Must be something up, the people providing the shafting should know what they are doing, something they have never had happen before, hp, weight, girlie tunes... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 3:40pm
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General Propeller makes the shafts but they make them per the customers specs. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 3:50pm
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There are different alloys that are stronger, not sure how good etc. General makes good stuff. they made my replacement shaft. Took my old one over to them with the prop and coupler and they made new shaft and reworked my prop. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 5:09pm
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The original issue (which ended up as a recall) was that they spec'd a 1-1/4" shaft but instead of getting Acme to design a specific propeller they just turned the shaft down to a 1-1/8" taper so all of that extra shaft strength was lost where the taper connected to the rest of the shaft. They swapped them all out to the correct shaft and propeller and they are still having issues? That sucks. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 5:17pm
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What prop (dia. and pitch) are they putting on the 550hp? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 5:28pm
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They probably need to go with these. Not only will they be able to eliminate the shaft, they'll be able to get rid of the rudder and steering wheel as well. https://www.thrustmaster.net/azimuth-thrusters/z-drives-for-the-inland-waterways/" rel="nofollow - https://www.thrustmaster.net/azimuth-thrusters/z-drives-for-the-inland-waterways/ |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 5:50pm
Maybe you should take your galvanic corrosion chart over with you Pete, and you could see if they're using some inferior SS screws in the strut along with explaining the finer points of galvanic corrosion of dissimilar metals. 
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8122pbrainard wrote:Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 5:59pm
Those Z-Drives are pretty cool. We've had a couple of vessels with those and the maneuverability is off the charts. Great for dynamic positioning, too. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 6:55pm
Bruce, I sure agree the G's need it! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 7:33pm
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It would be interesting to know if the metallurgical failure is torsion only or is there some cyclic bending stresses from the prop overhang. Possibly a collar between strut & prop would reinforce it. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 7:52pm
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I would try spoon cutting the key way. Sure couldnt hurt. My little 1 incher is spoon cut with a pinned key but the machinist is a friend. Does anyone know what shafting is in use? The Aquamet 22 though pricey is pretty dang tough stuff and usually specified for higher torque applications. I kind of doubt thats being used but I really have no idea. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 8:58pm
Why would the "bean counters" allow the PA to buy the good stuff for a 200K boat? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: June-18-2018 at 11:30pm
What’s wrong with splines? Keyway takes a lot of material out of the shaft. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 7:41am
A spline removes even more material plus it isn't a tight fit like a taper.  I think MC uses them because their owners would be mentally challenged to lap a prop to the shaft. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 7:46am
| Splines are ridges or teeth on a drive shaft that mesh with grooves in a mating piece and transfer torque to it, maintaining the angular correspondence between them. ... An alternative to splines is a keyway and key, though splines provide a longer fatigue life. |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 7:54am
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A spline is a multiple keyway. Since you are spreading the torsional forces over multiple areas, you can decrease the induced stresses. This is shown in Machine Design texts like Shigley and Mischke. The keyway isn’t supposed to transmit torque but when most dealers cannot properly lap in the prop to the shaft, I like splines better. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 8:01am
Sounds like you would be a perfect candidate for owning a MC. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 8:19am
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Pete They make a good boat CC makes a better one though!😂 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 10:55am
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Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 12:03pm
| Bravo |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 12:15pm
| Turning a 1-1/4” shaft down to 1-1/8” at the End of the shaft and expecting nothing bad to happen shows some seriously weak judgement at some level, regardless of keyway/splines. 550 HP is a crapload of power! I wonder what the torque is on that beast. |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 12:23pm
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G series boats are wrecking shorelines everywhere they are operated. I have no sympathy for the owners who experience broken prop shafts. Usually operated while surfing with a beer laden crew who is jamming rasta music at deafening sound levels. Legislation certainly has to be coming as our shorelines continue to erode. It may be different where you live. |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 12:32pm
| Indeed the erosion problem is real. Any large boat driving bow up (cabin cruisers certainly outnumber wake boats) is going to erode the crap out of shoreline property. I get a bit nuts when my wife drives “slowly” in an effort to “take it easy”. No wake or on plane is the right way to motor. |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 1:12pm
...and it ain't just the G boats. Everyone is getting into the game and we're all seeing more and more "surfers" out there. Seems that many of them are choosing small coves and running their Tidal Wave Generators close to shore sending huge wave after wave into home owners docks doing damage. Yes, there are 40+ yachts running round the same lake but not running back and forth all day in a quiet cove. We'll start seeing smaller lakes banning surfing machines more frequently in the next couple of years or more and more no wake zones in what normally would be great ski/ footer coves. Mark my words. A BiGGER wave is heading our way. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 1:38pm
Hope you’re right! I’m all for playing on the water and wakeboarding isn’t going away, but the number of private lakes banning ballasted beasts is sure to rise! |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 5:34pm
| There a ZERO surf/wake boats on the private lakes I ski on, only AWSA approved tow boats. However I live on an 18,500 acre lake that is absolutely loaded with them. We have large houseboats and a variety of up to 50' cruisers but they usually don't cause any problems in sk coves. In fact most of them rarely leave the marinas. Owners mostly use them for dock parties. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 7:41pm
I don't have any sympathy ether and, it's no different up here. The talk has started with our http://tlwa.org/index.htm" rel="nofollow - lake association and for now it seems that the overwhelming opinion is legislation is needed and forthcoming.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 8:59pm
| Caution must be taken to engage an attorney to ensure that an over reaction by the governing body to restrict ALL towed water sports activities. Something along the lines of Capacity Weight Limits strictly enforced. This would include the excess ballast. Or place a 20 foot limit on boats. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 9:11pm
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I wonder if there's anything going on in the Wi. DNR regarding the shoreline erosion? http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=767" rel="nofollow - Kyle, any comments? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 9:22pm
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Stopping wake surfing isn’t going to happen easily or without a big fully lawyered up approach, at least on the big public lakes. Money rules these kinds of things and when all the boat makers pool their resources, it won’t be a slam-dunk. Over-reactions are a big concern. Horsepower limits, boat length, slow boating —-🤬 |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 10:49pm
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Not sure how the legislation would be worded. Speed limits or no wake zones can be measured. Wake height is a different story. No surfing? Does that mean you can't try to surf regardless of what your wake size is? No ballast? Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see what the legislation would look like. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: June-19-2018 at 11:56pm
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The industry is ahead of us in some respect. Invasive species screening was putting a damper on water ballast systems and boat sales in the West slumped for a couple years. States were making it difficult and expensive to lake hop with a ballasted boat and boom!> here comes the wake gate. Massive wave and no water ballast. While I agree that massive wave generating shoreline destroying old fat guy surfer boats are bad and should be burned with fire.. be careful what you ask for. Rights once taken never come back. Never surrender any right for any purpose. Restrictions will always be broad in scope and will always outreach the intended target. The target is often missed altogether. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: kylem428
Date Posted: June-20-2018 at 12:28am
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Hey Pete, from a regulatory standpoint we aren’t exactly in an era of increasing protections to the environment including lake ecology, shoreline habitat, etc. in fact state statutes have gone the other direction in favor of individual prop. Owners rights (think wetlands, dredging, erosion control, zoning, etc) Regarding erosion, it is easy to point the finger at wake boats because their prevalence has certainly increased in the recent past but as others have pointed out there are a lot of different boats that are heavy and run slow closer to the shoreline than they should (standard slow no wake in WI is 100’ from shore on inland lakes). I think courteous boating, etiquette, and education about understanding what happens with your wake goes a long way. This is the tact being taken by the Town of Minocqua on the Minocqua Chain. I have certainly answered more phone calls in the last 2 years about erosion perceived to be caused by wake boats but it’s hard to tell the true cause since the areas are generally busy anyway from a recreational boat standpoint. coupled with higher water the last 2 years there is really no definitive place to put the blame. The regulatory answer has been to authorize landowners to protect their shoreline investment with rock riprap (there was a broad statutory exemption passed last year for up to 200’ on many lakes where a permit used to be required and the eligibility criteria were rather strict- often preventing such armoring). It’ll be interesting to see where things go because it is also a local control/private landowner rights issue coming up against a recreational rights issue. Not sure what argument would carry the day since both of those topics seem to be important to the present folks in charge. Kyle |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-20-2018 at 6:05am
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Kyle, Thanks for the update. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-20-2018 at 7:14am
John, Not necessarily. Our Wi. governor Walker has made lots' of reversals especially with landowners rights on what can be done to properties and shorelines. . ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: June-20-2018 at 3:37pm
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I think I might tend to agree with John, if the rules overshoot the original purpose it can be hard to back them down. When they put speed limits in place on Winnipesaukee in NH I wasn't in favor of it. A lot of people I know were strongly in favor, didn't see the need for boats going faster than 45 mph, some of them were paddlers who had been scared by high speed boats. I totally understood why they wanted the limit, I enjoy paddleboards and kayaking and high speed boating is not for everyone, but as someone with a 60 mph boat I didn't like it. No way I can see them ever raising the limit or taking it away now. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-08-2018 at 8:38pm
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Back to the shaft breakage issue, the thread on PN keeps on getting longer with more and more broken shafts even brand new boats of this model year (2018) freshly delivered. I can think of lots of words to describe this situation, and none of those words are ever used in a complimentary manner Must be lot's of board room conversation going on down in Orlando Kinda reminds me of Pinto gas tanks exploding, Silverado ignitions locking up the steering and a number of other issues like that in the automotive world.. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-08-2018 at 9:34pm
That little evil voice in the back of my head is saying I wish they all would break the shafts. A G came by today surfing and the wake knocked two of my pier sections off.  Well, at least the big 4th week is over so I should see boat traffic back to normal. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: July-08-2018 at 11:32pm
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It's an amazingly foolish failure. The idea of not being able to design a shaft/strut/coupling system that won't break on a $150,000 boat is nuts. The only thing worse is not being able to fix it in successive model years. This isn't space age technology. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Faceplant
Date Posted: July-09-2018 at 12:07am
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and yet they keep buying them while I am shaking my head . ------------- Feels like I am hanging 10 but in reality - probably hanging 6. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-09-2018 at 12:17am
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It is OK with me if they all break shafts. I was out yesterday and 4 or 5 of these mega beasts dominated the lake and flat ruined the water for everyone else. Each was loaded with 6-10 people, music blaring, wait, I don't call loud crappy RAP loaded with F words music, it is offensive to the max for me. Kids today are being taught that crap is normal and should be accepted. I disagree. They need to clean up their act. We were swimming next to our floating boat, one of these 23' wakeboard boats went buy and the large waves nearly went over the side of my Ski Nautique. I like to have fun as much as the next guy but those things turn my key. I think the broken shafts are just part of a learning curve. You have a few engineers that have built many 17-20 foot boats that worked well suddenly trying to apply past knowledge to a 23' boat that weighs double what the old boats did and carry 4,000 pounds of load to maximize the wake. I friend of mine took me out in his new boat, he loaded it up to help his son become a better wakeboarder. He added everything the Salesmen told him he needed. He actually had 2,200 pounds of Iron plate on the floor in the back next to the V drive engine set up. He also had two fat sacks filled with water to help. His wake was 5' plus. I surfed it and it was fun but the engine had to tach 3,500 to move the boat at 18-20 MPH. Burned 60 gallons in about 5 hours use. Surfing was fun. The boat should be banned in my opinion. ------------- |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: July-09-2018 at 12:51am
If so, it's an inexcusable learning curve. This isn't complex engineering. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-09-2018 at 6:37am
The "learning cure" of "complex engineering"?? I'd love to hear about why they decided to put a 1&1/8" taper on a 1&1/4" shaft so they can use props with 1&1/8" taper bores!  Acme with it's "high tech" CNC machining should be able to provide the 1&1/4" bores!!  To me, that's NO engineering required!------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Lakeview
Date Posted: July-09-2018 at 9:52am
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Just curious- what size is Mastercraft using on their 20 ft wake beast?? Anyone hear of any issues on that side ? ------------- Lakeview 1992 Barefoot Nautique 1967 Barracuda SS 1967 Chris Craft Cavalier |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-09-2018 at 9:55am
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I am sure it was an economic decision, albeit a poor one! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-09-2018 at 10:37am
Yep In this corner we have an engineer or two and in this corner we have all the bean counters and lawyers telling why it's best to just replace what breaks. Might work out for a while till the first death or injury lawsuit. I can see something like 10 miles out on a big lake, sudden violent storm coming in fast and the prop falls off, boat sinks or capsizes and somebody dies as a result. A good lawyer and a huge settlement are next
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Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: July-10-2018 at 1:00am
Nailed it. It’s all about supplier availability of 1-1/4” bore propellers. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-10-2018 at 1:23am
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So you think the boat and drivetrain should be designed around current availability of propeller selection? Cart before the horse. Correct Craft, ahem, "Nautique", has lagged behind upsizing their prop shafts for 2 decades. |
Posted By: redritereturn
Date Posted: July-10-2018 at 1:30am
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The lakes up there aren't big enough for the 'ocean liners'! I went to into the 'boat store' to buy a hose for my '91 this weekend and, they didn't have a 1" id water hose, and when I was walking out I looked at the prop on a new G23 or whatever and it was about the same size as a twin screw diesel boat, and they wonder why prop repairs were the order of the holiday week!!! I hope I didn't mess up your pier Saturday evening
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Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: July-10-2018 at 1:35am
No—I’m saying (agreeing with you) they need a bigger shaft and appropriately bored prop. Are there no 1-1/4” props |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-10-2018 at 1:40am
| If you're asking me I don't know. Nor do I care. |