GT40 engine help. Please!
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46850
Printed Date: May-07-2024 at 7:06am
Topic: GT40 engine help. Please!
Posted By: man0seven
Subject: GT40 engine help. Please!
Date Posted: September-27-2018 at 10:40pm
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Hi all, I am kinda new to the forum. I recently got a 98 Ski Nautique with my dad and brother. It was sitting in a lot abandoned for 8 years. Unfortunately they left the plug in and it retained water up to the plugs. We are fairly sure that no water got into the engine but it did ruin the starter and a couple other things. At this point we have changed the oil, replaced the spark plug wires, the distributor(but possibly not the right kind, marine but 351) replaced the rotor and cap and checked the plugs. It starts well and seems to run but it runs rough and it has no power. The hole shot is minutes and even when it finally gets to cruising speed, 32 at best, if you turn or swerve, it drops on power and really struggles. Some things I worry about is the gas and possibly the timing or distributor, but I am really just shooting in the dark. Please, any help of where to go at this point would be really helpful. Thanks in advance. ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 1:29am
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I'm curious, when you replaced the distributor did you use a timing light to re time the engine? Did you remove the spout connector first? When you do time it,you remove the spout connector,run the engine at 1000 rpm and set at 5 degrees BTDC. If you did all that then it sounds as if the firing order is off. Do you happen to know the Ford part number for the distributor you did buy? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 1:38am
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This is something that I had thought might be the culprit, but have not checked. The guy I bought it from replaced the distributor from "some other ford in the yard" and when I first checked it out it was obvious that it was something wrong with the timing. Since then he worked on it some more and got it to run a little smoother and today was the first time we were able to take it out and see how it ran. :( I will check the timing and see if this is the issue and report back. If there is anything else in the meantime please feel free to add. I hope to completely restore her but I need to get her running well first. Thanks! ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 3:04am
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It certainly sounds like distributor and / or timing is causing your problems. Spend the money and get a marine specific dizzy for your engine. Don't scavenge one off some junk engine -- just my $0.02. Your engine needs fuel, air and spark to run. Pretty simple. Don't scrimp on the spark. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 4:48am
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There is no "marine" specfic distributor for the GT40 though, that's why I asked for its part number if he can find the one on it. Let's see what is in it and go from there. If it fits a 351 and its plug matches the wiring harness he might be good to go. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 8:00am
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SInce this is a 98 Ski Nautique and you say it's a GT40 that would mean it's fuel injected. A 98 could also be had with a carbureted 351. Many people confuse things as far as terminology goes on these engines and call the standard carbureted engine a GT40 which isn't right So just to verify what you have ..............is it fuel injected or does it have a carburetor? It'll make a big difference in how you go about getting it running right Pictures of the engine and distributor would be good too |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 6:59pm
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Fuel injected. ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 8:15pm
Well at least you don't have to worry about the carburetor, but that leaves you plenty of other stuff to deal with like computers and injectors and sensors. In the link below is the 301 page GT40 service manual from the reference section here on CCF if you don't already have it http://correctcraftfan.com/Downloads/Pro_BOss_GT-40_Service_Manual.pdf" rel="nofollow - link Like you said earlier, I think I'd be worried about the fuel system too after things sat for 8 years |
man0seven wrote:Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 8:27pm
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Check the pressure at the fuel rail. Easy to do, would rule out fuel pump or regulator. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 9:00pm
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Have you drained the transmission. If the engine was deep in the water the tranny was underwater. You may have a rusted up transmission in your boat with tons of drag. Losing RPM while turning seems to point out your engine is way off on Horse Power. Using a Dial Back Timing Light would allow you to watch your timing and see if it is working properly without tearing the distributor apart. The Dial Back feature allows you to check the exact timing at all the different RPM speeds. Idle to 4,000. It is very important for the distributor to function correctly or the engine will not make power. ------------- |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 10:07pm
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Yeah, the tranny had some water in it but seems to be running somewhat clean now. We changed the fluid but it is something on the list to change or repair. So far we have found that 2 & 5 were wired up wrong so that will be a big help. We are going to check the timing tomorrow. How do you check the pressure on the fuel rail? Just a pressure gauge on the valve? ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 10:29pm
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Pressure check in section 3H of GT40 service http://www.correctcraftfan.com/reference/manuals.asp" rel="nofollow - manual ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: September-28-2018 at 10:47pm
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Plug wires in the wrong location would likely be most of your problem, but I'd still give it a once over throughout to be sure. Fuel pressure gauge on the valve located starboard side rail at the front. Check with ignition on, engine off - Should be 39psi +/- 3psi - and also ignition on engine on, which I think is 31 +/- at idle. ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-29-2018 at 12:29am
Probably not much in them now days since alot of their old functions are now controlled by the ECM right Mark? The PIP sensor must take the place of other makes crankshaft position sensor? I know some crankshaft sensors are in the most difficult places to get at to replace,being mounted in the distributor housing would make things alot easier ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: September-29-2018 at 3:04am
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You are correct Gary, crankshaft sensors and the ECM have taken over timing on FI engines. I still don't know the GT40 electronics outside Fuel Injection. ------------- |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: September-29-2018 at 9:12pm
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I thought I read the PIP was the Ford equivalent of a cam position sensor ... so is the the cam or crank? ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-29-2018 at 10:17pm
Page 2A-8 of the service manual has some information from Ford about what the PIP does  I don't think the system was sophisticated enough to need separate camshaft and crankshaft position sensors |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: September-30-2018 at 1:21am
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Update - So we found at least one sets of wires crossed. Somehow 1 & 6 were reversed. Running much smoother. So now I think it is a matter of setting the timing correct. Only trouble we can’t find TDC on the wheel. Does anyone have an idea or pic of what it should look like? I am not sure if the rust and paint has made it unreadable or not. ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: September-30-2018 at 1:59am
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I believe if the setting is close the computer will take over and control timing. Try a test run now and see how it performs. Now that it runs well check your dip sticks on the Engine and Tranny to make sure all the water is out. If it looks milky you still have water in there. I know I was one to recommend checking the distributor. My mistake, I did not pay attention to the fact this is a Fuel Injected engine. The computer does a lot of the work for you on timing. ------------- |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-30-2018 at 9:35am
Here's a picture of what the marks on the harmonic balancer should look like. The picture is of a reverse rotation balancer, your's would be normal rotation so the markings/numbers will be going the other way from the TDC mark, but you should get the idea I'd put the engine at or near TDC and look at the timing pointer mounted on the timing cover and the marks should be below the pointer since the engine runs. To get the engine at/near TDC find the #1 terminal on the distributor cap and make a mark on the distributor body just below that with a magic marker, paint etc. Then take the cap off and rotate the engine by hand till the rotor is pointing at that mark you made. A 15/16 socket on the harmonic balancer bolt works good to turn it over by hand. Now look at the pointer and the graduations should be under the pointer. You'll probably have to do some cleaning/wire brushing to be able to see them good enough. Then you can put the cap on, get the timing light out and follow the directions in the manual from a handful of posts back and check the timing 
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Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: October-06-2018 at 1:57am
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So we got the timing worked out and found that three fuel injectors had gone bad. I think the power is now there but it is acting like it is running out of gas and dies. I can let it sit for a moment and then it will start back up. It will do this over and over until I get it back on the trailer. I am going to look at the pick up tubes in the fuel tank and also during all this I mangled the fulel line between the regulator and the FCC. It is acting like there is fuel pump issue...? What else should I be looking at? Probably another issue - it occasionally gets stuck at 3000 rpms. Could this be related? ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: October-06-2018 at 4:08pm
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Figured out the fuel supply issue. Still having the idiling issues. Where should I be looking? The more I ran it, it seemed to get better but still would get hung up on high idles. Revving the engine would usually bring it back down. ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-06-2018 at 5:22pm
Figured out the fuel supply issue and it was____________________(feel free to fill in the blank) Is it a steady high idle or a cycling up and down type of idle? When does it get stuck at 3000 rpm or is this the "high idle"? |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: October-06-2018 at 6:21pm
... needed more fuel in the fuel tank.  It is steady. It doesn’t always go to 3k, sometimes it is 3500 and sometimes less. ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-06-2018 at 7:51pm
I think as a start, I'd be checking the throttle body to see if it's physically hanging open some.when you move the throttle back to idle speed That's not a high idle, that's a screaming fast idle
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Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: October-06-2018 at 10:38pm
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ill check that ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: October-10-2018 at 12:14pm
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UPDATE: So far the timing was off. Crossed spark plug wires. 3 fuel injectors were bad. 1 spark plug was bad. Now the throttle is catching and I think it is either the cable or something in the throttle control. Hoping to sort it out today. ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 12:56pm
So I replaced the cable and cleaned up both the throttle assembly and the throttle body and it fixed the sticking idle. So thank you @keno. Now that it doesn’t stick the idle roams up and down at the bottom and I will see if I can sort that out. Thank you all for all the help. You and this forum have been invaluable. Thank you for all the time that you give to helping all us less intelligent.  ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 2:18pm
I think you got a word wrong there, it should be Thank you for helping us less experienced [IMG]smileys/smiley2.gif" align="middle[/IMG If you ask me, you're doing a pretty slam bang good job getting things figured out |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 2:30pm
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For your idle, do a search here on CCF for GT40 loping idle and good luck Easiest way is to use Google, search "correctcraftfan GT40 loping idle" You'll come up with something looking like this link https://www.google.com/search?q=correctcraftfan+GT40+loping+idle&rlz=1C1FLDB_enUS639US639&oq=correctcraftfan+gt40+loping+idle&aqs=chrome.0.69i59.13356j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: November-06-2018 at 8:08pm
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Finally!! I wanted to close the loop on this because I think I finally have it running almost perfectly. So after all of it I believe that the main issues were bad injectors. I got these for 220 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E89UBMG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1" rel="nofollow - Ford Racing Fuel Injectors Also, I think the reason we were lacking in top end was that the low pressure fuel pump was full of crystallized gas. I replaced the pump because it was below the water line and figured a new one wouldn't hurt. - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CSWR9W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1" rel="nofollow - Amazon For full transparency however these are all the things we clean or changed: Fuel pressure regulator - https://www.autozone.com/fuel-delivery/fuel-pressure-regulator/gp-sorensen-fuel-pressure-regulator/79674_594834_0" rel="nofollow - AutoZone Fuel filter in FCC - https://www.nautiqueparts.com/product/fuel-filter-pcm-fcc-pcm-part-rp080026/" rel="nofollow - NautiqueParts Checked the fuel pickup tubes Cleaned the Throttle body Replaced the idle air control - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=945342&jsn=1" rel="nofollow - RockAuto Changed the oil and filter Changed the trans fluid Ran multiple bottles of fuel injector cleaner through I probably forgot a few other things. Thank you all for all the help. During the process, I even took it to a mechanic and that unfortunately just ended being a loss of several hundred dollars.  You all have been invaluable. I look forward to many more years as a member of CCFan. Brian ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: JayG80
Date Posted: November-07-2018 at 1:17pm
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Brian, Next time you change the FCC filter, replace the 2.5” hose that suspends the high pressure fuel pump. Also keep a watchful eye for fuel leaks around the power wires on the top of the FCC. Nautique Parts has a retrofit kit that 3 boats in my community needed this year. All 3 were 2001 or 2002 year models. ------------- 2007 Ski 2002 Ski |
Posted By: samudj01
Date Posted: November-07-2018 at 1:25pm
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I have heard this hose is a known issue. Why is that? Does it get clogged? And where do you buy the 2.5" hose that suspends the high pressure pump? I just hunted on Nautiqueparts and Skidim. ------------- 78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409 Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: November-07-2018 at 1:29pm
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I'll try to answer this one. First it is a regular type fuel hose. I think the reason they fail is due to the fact they are submersed in fuel all the time and they tend to develop holes and or cracks in them and they cause a pressure issue. ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: JayG80
Date Posted: November-07-2018 at 1:41pm
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Use code PND for 10% discount https://www.nautiqueparts.com/product/internal-fuel-hose-for-fcc/" rel="nofollow - FCC Hose https://www.nautiqueparts.com/product/repair-kit-for-fuel-control-cell-fcc/" rel="nofollow - Repair Kit ------------- 2007 Ski 2002 Ski |