Sherwood pump help
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46865
Printed Date: April-28-2024 at 3:40am
Topic: Sherwood pump help
Posted By: Mpost
Subject: Sherwood pump help
Date Posted: October-03-2018 at 8:23pm
|
Sad to say but the 1998 SN is put away for the season. Was 42 yesterday, 80 today and high of 40 tomorrow. What a roller coaster. I could use some help with my RWP. I opened it up today to clean it up and repaint it, and have it ready for the new impeller in the spring. Bearings are noisy so I would like to replace them before the freeze up like my 84 2001 did on me 13 years ago.  Of course then I think it only cost me $150 bucks for a whole new pump. Not today  Anyway the first problem is the tag telling me the model of the pump is gone. Only the part left under the bolt is there. Can anyone tell me from the pictures what the model number of this pump is? https://ibb.co/d8yWte" rel="nofollow">  Second is while trying to disassemble the pump to get at the bearings and seals I have run into a roadblock. It looks like there is a metal cup that needs to come out but I do not know how it comes out. Also the spring with the rubber bellows will not come out either. ???? https://ibb.co/d7D9eK" rel="nofollow">  An illustrated parts breakdown of the pump would really help me but have not been able to find anything being as I don't know the pump model. I know the rebuild kits are available but again what kit number without a model number. Thanks for any input I can get here.  ------------- 84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft |
Replies:
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-03-2018 at 8:57pm
|
It's a G21 here is a breakdown http://www.cooncat.org/pdf/maintenanceandrepairmanual.pdf" rel="nofollow - PDF Just pry that cup out it's part of the seal seat ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-03-2018 at 9:14pm
|
Without the proper assy tool it is VERY easy to break the carbon seal. It has a carbon ring sealing against a ceramic ring. Be very careful ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Mpost
Date Posted: October-03-2018 at 9:19pm
|
Gary, thanks for that link. read the part for the G series and looks like I have to press the pulley off to get at the bearings. Just went out to the shop and confirmed that there is no set screw on the pulley. I will order the parts and get rolling on it when they show up. A picture is worth a 1000 words. I love this forum. So many people that like to fix things.  Thanks for the help. ------------- 84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-03-2018 at 9:33pm
|
Your going to run into other road blocks as you go too. I made a crude jig to remove the bearings with my press. Removing and installing the shaft/pulley is the hardest part followed by removing the bearings from the housing only because the housing is dirty and rusty,they will reinstall by hand,shaft and pulley need to be pressed back thru the bearings Do not put any force on this end it will break  This is what I made to push the shaft out and how it sits in the press.  I'll keep looking for pictures,photobucket is not cooperating. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-03-2018 at 9:33pm
|
Do not remove the pulley, their book is also wrong - they tell you to install the seal then put the C clips on- but then the seal is in the way. Assemble the bottom just as you took it apart. Never touch the seal surfaces either your finger oils will ruin them ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-03-2018 at 9:41pm
|
Most of the ones I've worked on,the pulley is a "shrink" fit. Meaning they freeze the shaft and heat the pulley. Good luck removing it I like the keyway and set screw approach but some backyard hack engineers decided they could save a few $$ by eliminating that operation. Engineers should have to work on some of these ingenious inventions they come up with. Good reference is the inverted oil filters. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-03-2018 at 10:58pm
After I remove the shaft and the C clips holding the bearings in I take a socket and start pushing the bearings out straight toward the plate just to get them broken free and moving Then transfer it over to the slotted plate to push them thru  bead blasted housing  Then assembly is the reverse  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Mpost
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 10:32am
|
Thanks for all the suggestions and pictures. I have a press so should not be a problem. Gary, how do you get to the snap ring at the pulley end without removing the pulley. With the retaining rings on the shaft and the ones on both ends of the bearings the shaft wont come out of the bearings, will it???? Ill be out of town for 12 days so will have to wait until then to dig into it. Thanks!  ------------- 84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 10:47am
|
Martin, I'd say pressing off the sheave would be best to access the snap ring on that end but, you may also be able to get to it with an offset snap ring pliers?  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 11:32am
|
Once you do one you'll be amazed at how easy it is. When you get the seal out you will be able to reach in and remove the snap ring that holds the shaft in  Ignoring that the seal is in place in this picture,you then just push on this end of the shaft. When you get even with the pump base with the press I used a 3/8 extension to push the shaft through the bearings until it's out.  You will end up with the pump housing in one hand,the shaft with the pulley still on in the other. Then you can remove the snap rings holding the bearings in place and press the bearings out. You can then replace the snap ring on the shaft also-  Can't find a picture yet but when you are reassembling and get to where the seal goes back in, I used a piece of plastic electrical pipe to use as a spacer to push the seal into place. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 11:35am
|
I cannot stress enough - Do not remove the pulley from the shaft,not needed,too hard to deal with,might break some thing..... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 11:51am
|
Here's a recent thread with more pictures from Gary and lots of discussion about the pump http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43144&title=g20-reduced-flow-under-load" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 12:11pm
|
As far as the installation tool you can cut a piece of sch 40 1 1/4 inch pvc tubing like Gary did or you can get a 1 inch pvc coupling at Pete's Depot Either one works equally well Here's a picture of my coupling for that purpose. https://ibb.co/YfgGvpN" rel="nofollow">
 It's actually mentioned in the directions that come with some of the kits 
|
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 12:40pm
|
Thanks Ken. I'm really surprised these questions don't come up more often. Sherwood recommends a major service like this every 4 years, 2 if severe service like high rpm. No one following maintenance schedules ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 1:10pm
The spare parts business is great for many companies and very profitable.. They charge upwards of 10 times or more say for bearings and seals compared to what you can get them for at a power transmission supply. It has kept many a company in the black during slow times. "Maintenance schedule" What's that? I'm still running the original bearings and seals on the 54, 64 and 77!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Gary S wrote:Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 1:28pm
Probably cause you don't run any of them? Seems that you're always at Homey D or on CCFan! ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 2:48pm
|
Tim you know that one day of summer when the ice is finally out, August 13th only comes around once a year ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 3:00pm
The Fox River here by me is closed for high water. Again  been a bad year for boating------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Mpost
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 8:26pm
|
Wow Now I wish I had not popped the shaft out of the pulley last night. Came out without a problem on my press and no damage to the pulley. So I think with a little heat and cooling I'll be able to get it back in when I'm done. But the other link with Gary's photos gives a much better picture for me to follow with the rest of the work. Since I'm going to be gone for 12 days maybe you guys will have it finished when I get back . 😂😂😂 I was amazed I did not find more posts on rebuilding a Sherwood pump, when I was doing searching yesterday. I just bought the boat this year with over 1170 hours on it, wondering if this is the original pump ------------- 84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 8:56pm
Martin, You did good. Don't worry about getting that sheave back on the shaft. Gary's just paranoid because he breaks things in the press!
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 9:29pm
|
I didn't do that. I suspect Dad used a 3 prong puller on it trying to remove the shaft many years ago. Pumps were cheap back then so he just replaced it. Saltwater seems to tear up these pumps,by the time you notice the seal leaking the bearings are goners. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 9:35pm
|
I had to make a new bearing housing for mine, same reason. Used aluminum on mine ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 9:36pm
|
Well like most things in life, there's usually more than one way to accomplish the job Here's a link to a Sherwood maintenance and repair manual loaded with info On page 29 you can find Sherwood's directions for disassembly and assembly of the pump http://www.cooncat.org/pdf/maintenanceandrepairmanual.pdf" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 9:42pm
Ken, Gary must not have seen those instructions since they do tell you to remove the sheave!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 9:47pm
You are correct. I had one pulley that ran out so badly that I had to bore the hub completely out and weld in a new hub and bore it to fit the shaft and set screw it back on. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 9:56pm
They also tell you to replace the impeller every year too,so who you going to believe......... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 10:19pm
| Come on Gary you know Pete replaces impellers at 18 years whether they need it or not. |
Posted By: man0seven
Date Posted: October-04-2018 at 11:32pm
Any chance you bought it a couple weeks ago and it is teal and white with a tower? I saw one like that your way just a little while back. ------------- 2005 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Mpost
Date Posted: October-05-2018 at 12:43am
|
Nope . Burgandy and green and was able to ski for a couple months this summer with it PO did nothing himself and only owned it for 3 years. I like to make things right so i don't worry about them. I never blamed my old man for breaking somethig tho. ------------- 84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft |
Posted By: Mpost
Date Posted: November-03-2018 at 12:56pm
|
Well I finally got back to the RWP rebuild. I ordered a Major repair kit off e/Bay went at it. Things went well after cleanup and removal of old paint. HF press sure does come in handy for this type of stuff. Only problem I ran into was installing the Seat assembly (#13) onto the shaft. Tried lubricating the rubber part with soapy water 1/1 mixtures as recommended but the rubber kept pushing up out of the metal piece while sliding it on the shaft. Pushed on the shaft with the retaining washer on top and a good fitting pipe to press it down with. but could not get it down to the retaining ring slot without the rubber squeezing up and out. I called the e-Bay seller and he sent me a new seal and some special lube he had just been working with to help with seal installs. No charge. Using this stuff and the new seal it went on like butter and had not issues. I also followed his recommendation and rounded over the bottom edge of the retaining ring slot to prevent the rubber from hanging up there. Also I did have to press the pully back on, since I took it off prior to hearing other ideas for disassembly. But with a little heat on the pully from a propane torch and the press it went back on without too much effort. I would not want to try it without a good press though. Thanks for all the ideas and tool suggestions for this project. Sure is great having all of this knowledge available from people who like doing these things and sharing.  ------------- 84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-03-2018 at 1:45pm
|
Glad it went well. Like everything once you do it it does not seem that hard. I guess it's the unknown. I do not know how you could do it without a press. Back in the 90's I needed the u joints in my Jeeps front axle,took it in and it was over 300. The next Jeep needed them so I knew the price was had sure to have gone up so I bought the Harbor Freight press. Have done 5 pumps and another Jeep front axle. It has more than paid for it's self. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: November-03-2018 at 7:46pm
| I’m just gonna head down the river to Gary’s when mine starts leaking. He’s got all the tools and experience! |