Stripped / Rusted drain plug hole
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46959
Printed Date: May-15-2024 at 1:12am
Topic: Stripped / Rusted drain plug hole
Posted By: KRoundy
Subject: Stripped / Rusted drain plug hole
Date Posted: October-30-2018 at 9:38pm
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I need some engine expert help. I was winterizing my boat and have a problem. The aft / left side drain plug hole has rusted to the point there there are no more threads. I purchased a new drain plug and I can't get it started at all. So I am now stuck in my winterizing process since I can't pour the antifreeze in until I can put back in my drain plug. The plugs appear to be 1/4" pipe thread. What do I do? I need to tap the block drain spot. Can I buy a tap somewhere and do this? What size? What thread? Please be specific. Do I need to take it to an engine shop? ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Replies:
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-30-2018 at 9:49pm
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They are 1/4 inch pipe threads If you get a 1/4-18 NPT tap you should be able to use it to make some new threads good enough to put a new plug in there. It's not the best place to be working but you can do it  |
Posted By: MACS81SN
Date Posted: October-30-2018 at 9:49pm
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Been there. Just need a 1/4” NPT pipe tap. Some hardware stores carry, maybe HD or Lowe’s. McMaster- Carr for sure. Just don’t tap in too deep as it will make the hole bigger and tough to seal because of the taper. ------------- Mark 1999 -SN - 502 Python 1981 - SN Owned 33 years - Sold 1968 - Mustang - Sold |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-30-2018 at 9:54pm
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Here's an old thread in the link saying all the same stuff that me and Mark mentioned http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17865&title=block-water-drain-plug-stripped" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: October-30-2018 at 10:08pm
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Awesome. Will stop by ACE on my way home tomorrow. Thanks for the link too. 2010! That a good deep track there. :) ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-30-2018 at 10:19pm
| Solid brass pipe plugs tend to run fatter than hollow |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: October-30-2018 at 10:54pm
Agree on that. But, if the threads are not too far gone, meaning you have some decent resistance right away when you start the tap, I'd try putting in a petcock so you don't have to use the threads any more once you have it in. I've also used 3-4 wraps of teflon tape to add some sealing bulk on the new threads. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Hollywood wrote:Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 1:15am
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The problem is that the threads are really gone. There's nothing to "start" to grab. The part where the threads would start to engage looks like a smooth tube. The other drain plug area is fine with lots of thread. This one on the left for some reason is dealing with more rust problems. I'll tap and report back. Thanks, everyone. ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 1:20am
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How about careful drilling to 3/8" and tapping new NPT threads? Is there enough metal to do that? ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 7:48am
Certainly an option I'd suggest. Going to 3/8 pipe means only enlarging the hole .0937" (3/32") in diameter which is only .0468" (3/64") per side. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 10:02am
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Here comes the "backyard hack" in me I'd try the 1/4 inch pipe tap whether you think it'll work or not and see what you get for results. It'll cost you less than 10 bucks or so to try it. If that doesn't work and you want to get antifreeze into it for the winter, I'd get an expandable rubber plug of the appropriate size and put that in. Here's an example in the link and they do make them small enough. A good hardware store should have what you'd need. https://www.petersenproducts.com/143-2-Series-T-Handle-Expandable-Rubber-Plugs-s/1898.htm" rel="nofollow - link As far as laying on the floor with a 1/2 inch drill with a big bit (37/64), getting a straight shot at the hole with any kind of precision and then getting the 3/8 npt tap started/ finished with any kind of leverage/force................it ain't gonna be easy. The rubber plug would give you all winter to decide what to do if the 1/4 inch tap doesn't work. Disclaimer..................A really accomplished, full fledged "backyard hack" might use that as a permanent solution You could also do the drain and pour some antifreeze in and drain that out and leave it dry method for the winter. I can see Pete clutching his chest as I type this. 
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Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 10:32am
Darn good points and advice, Ken. I once used a whittled stick to plug a hole for the winter so the engine could be pickled. It didn't become a hack job until the boat owner thought it held up so well over the winter that he could run it like that all summer.
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Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 10:34am
| Let's not forget you don't need to plug that hole for winter... |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 10:36am
No, but if you do that, pour some antifreeze through the engine to flush the water out. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 10:39am
| Good suggestions above. Have encountered this several times. Running the 1/4” tap deeper and then taping the heck out of the new fitting will almost always solve it. If clearance allows (fords aren’t usually problematic), the McMaster quick drains are nice and will prevent you from putting additional cycles on marginal threads. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 10:42am
| Does leaving the plugs out cause the threads to corrode? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 10:58am
| Yes |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 11:30am
| That's not the cause of corrosion. |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 11:52am
| I don’t know what everyone else does, but I usually put a small amount of grease on the threads, marine grease, bearing grease, etc. it can help to act as a rust preventative if you are going to leave your plug out. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 12:06pm
The water and air interacting in the exposed threads would be the direct cause... seems that leaving the plugs out would be a strong contributor to that. I’ve only lost the threads on one engine that I had maintained for a long period of time, and it occurred in the spring following the single winter where I drained only and left the plugs out. Maybe it was a long time coming but that sure seemed to speed the process. Plugs get reinserted now. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 12:11pm
| I use Teflon tape and snug them up, not crank them down. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 3:11pm
Same here. Forgot they were out. Lucky enough thread deep in the hole cleaned up with a tap worked. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 4:23pm
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Seachoice-Emergency-Wood-Plug-Kit/32739627" rel="nofollow - Seachoice wood emergency plugs. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 6:28pm
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Purchased a 1/4-18 tap at NAPA on my lunch break. Will report again soon. I’m hopeful that it will be really dry so I can get a good look. Going to look at McMaster quick drains right now... ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 6:48pm
The McMaster part is 4921K2. It's a 1/4 with the removable stem/T handle so you can still probe the drain with some wire checking for sediment/blockage. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 7:39pm
Kevin, One thing you should be aware of when running the tap in deep is how deep the water cavity is behind the hole. If there's not enough room, then the tap can bottom out before you get some decent threads cut. There are taps that are called "bottoming" or "short projection" where the taper is larger in diameter at the bottom of the tap. Think about trying to tap a pipe cap. In a pinch, I've cut taps shorter to get the same results. Check how deep the hole in the block is. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Faceplant
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 9:33pm
I thought that when you did the " drain only method " you didn't need to add any anti freeze at all ? ------------- Feels like I am hanging 10 but in reality - probably hanging 6. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 10:05pm
Jeff, Correct. If you drain only, no antifreeze is needed. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: October-31-2018 at 11:26pm
I've always squirted a bit of antifreeze in each engine drain, manifold drain, raw water hose, top engine hose. Likely not needed, just an old habit. When I say squirt, I'm using a syringe so barely a few ounces total. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 8:53am
| I always put the plugs back in and pour 1/2 half gallon of anti freeze into engine, then pull the plugs again. Water always proceeds the antifreeze draining out, so if you just pull the plugs, some water remains in the engine. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 9:16am
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Bruce, What engine(s) are you talking about? The drain only was common up until I'd say the 80's and is still used. I just did my neighbors and drained only. It's never had any anti in it for over 60 years. My own engines I never used to put the anti in ether. When I worked at Watercraft Sales, we never used the stuff ether. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 10:25am
| Pete, Fords and Chevys. I been using that method since I popped a freeze plug on a PCM 240 about 20 years ago. That engine had been drained and filled with -50 anti freeze. Obviously, some water got stuck in the engine, and yes I always poke for scale. I always purge now and most always water proceeds the antifreeze. My 2003 Indmar manual instructs to just drain, so some do still advocate for that method. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 12:31pm
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I don't put as much in, but notice the same, I squirt antifreeze in and a watery mix comes back out, which makes me think maybe what I'm doing makes sense. In the end, anything that makes us sit in our easy chairs in February and feel better about the safety of our boats is worth doing. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 12:33pm
| I too have popped a freeze plug with a drain only... I cycle a little AF through each drain before reinstalling the plugs. Starboard drain on Windsors is pretty far forward (high) and doesn’t get all the water. Big proponent of probing here also. I usually fill (at least a gallon) on my final winterization of the season. Usually just drain on the early season winterizations. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 1:02pm
So what made the old dog {that's you Pete} change his ways and start to use some antifreeze? From a 2012 thread
Since none of the engines we talk about on this site were designed as marine engines, the drain plugs aren't in the best spot for ensuring all the water is out especially with engines mounted at an angle.. Everybody winterizes a little differently, so whatever works for ya' must be OK till that plug, whatever it's called pops out and maybe the block decided to crack too. People talk about water having room to expand and do no damage if the small amount left freezes and then somebody comes along, does it that way and has a problem Bruce's method sure sounds good to me if you're putting any RV antifreeze in ;[)] But like I said, everybody has their preference |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 2:10pm
Ken, I'd say I've been using anti in my boats for well over 30 years. As mentioned, it's cheap insurance plus I guess I just went along with the tread that everyone seemed to be doing. The neighbors I did a couple weeks ago didn't get any anti but it's a Chris/Hercules K and like you mentioned is an older marine that drains very well with it's plug all the way aft and low. So, speaking of old dogs, what does the other CCfan old dog do.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 4:08pm
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Who you callin' an old dog? You're at least 180 days older than me I do it the way them boys in Maine do it Drain everything, put the plugs/hoses back in pour antifreeze through everything and pull the plugs/hoses again to drain things. I use the minus 100 degree stuff because I like the color and I get it from a plumber friend. I like to play with my refractometer and check the last stuff to drain out and make sure I'm happy, figuring anything that's left in the engine is the same as what last drained out. I don't worry about whether the engine is corroding away from the inside because the block is basically empty instead of full of antifreeze. I figure a boating seasons worth of straight water in the engine causes a lot more corrosion/rust than the air in the engine during the winter And I make sure the female openings are well lubed up before inserting the male plug |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 4:13pm
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ELIZABETH! I’m Comin![/QUOTE]
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Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 4:27pm
| Ken, after we purge with -50, we then put 2 gals of -100 in the engine. This may be unnecessary, but that's our method. We discuss every year if we should drain the -100 out and reuse it in each engine and leave all the engines empty. This year I bought 12 -100 and 3 -50 for purging to do 6 boats. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 4:54pm
I hate it when we have sustained -50deg temps here in New England and all my blocks freeze up from using inferior AF. 
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Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 5:04pm
| We don't consider where you're from New England. More like north NYC. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 5:12pm
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You guys are using the wrong formula. In California, I roll the boat into the garage and close the door. Insulated basement garage never drops below 60 in cold of Winter. By Cold, a real cold snap in Northern California gets way down to +28 or so. I know, we are also stuck with all the High Taxes and other California Negatives but, Hey, there are reasons we put up with that. Our Weather is the main reason. On a serious note, as you guys are talking about drilling and tapping in engine blocks always investigate the space available. I was in an engine shop and they showed me a good block that had a perfect hole drilled right through a cylinder wall. In an engine you need to think about what is behind the hole you are fixing. A good sharp bit will drill right through cast iron quickly. Maybe add a tape line on your drill bit marking your stop depth to avoid a costly mistake. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 5:24pm
And we consider you to be Canadian... but I suspect our average local temps are closer to yours than NYC by a good bit. I probably need to find a source for that -100 stuff! |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 5:39pm
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Next time you're drinking a beer, admiring that beautiful boat on your coozi, read the writing and that's where you can get some -100. Average temps don't matter. It's those lows in a cold snap like last winter where -35 was happening frequently for a couple weeks. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 5:43pm
I've had a few people question my excessive use of never-seize ..... but it makes a huge difference in these little pipe thread plugs. I didn't see -100 in a couple of stores I tried, including tractor supply, where do people who don't know Ken's friend get it? ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 5:51pm
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I didn’t say avg temps matter, just that NYC is a different climate from here since they’re a ways south, on the shore, at sea level... we get different weather here in the hills that seems to be within a few degrees of southern Maine when I occasionally check. If a few nightly excursions to -35 are enough to worry you with -50 AF, I would have to assume you start draining your blocks when overnight lows approach 45 degrees? (15 degrees of margin) I normally don’t winterize until I see sustained (24-48hrs) below freezing. We don’t see many days in a row here below -50. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 6:00pm
Hamilton Marine. Other stores have it, even some on line free shipping. You want to shop for it as it's pricey, although on sale $7.99-$8.99. Tim, I don't trust quality control on a $3.95 product enough for a 15 degree margin that could ruin an engine. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-01-2018 at 7:07pm
Most any plumbing supply outfit will have some. Sold as boiler anti freeze One brand would be Hercules Cryo Tek minus 100. A 5 gallon container isn't terrible pricewise especially if you have an account with the place West Marine sells the minus 100 RV stuff too Here's a West Marine link to info on different antifreeze ratings that they sell https://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/documents/pdfs/LIT136_V5.pdf" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: November-03-2018 at 3:14pm
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Wow. My thread has gone into places I didn't expect. Seattle just doesn't get that cold. I think I've seen single-digit temps once and never below zero. Still raining here, but warm (in the mid-50s or so). Hope to get a few minutes of sunshine soon so I can tap, put in my cheap anitfreeze, and put her away fro the winter. ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: November-05-2018 at 1:48am
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We have success!!! The tap definitely made the drain hole bigger but it worked. My brass plug is snug and my block has been protected with antifreeze. If it happens any more I might have to move up to the next size (I think 3/8"). Thank you all so much for the help. Kevin ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |