Points problem
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47426
Printed Date: April-28-2024 at 6:11am
Topic: Points problem
Posted By: norrisdam
Subject: Points problem
Date Posted: May-07-2019 at 11:33pm
| I have a 1986 Martinique with a 351 pcm engine. We set the points to proper gauge and 3-4 days later engine starts missing with some backfiring and then boat won’t start. Considering electronic ignition but not sure it’s the best way to go. Any help appreciated. Thanks. |
Replies:
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 12:00am
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I would determine exact cause of failure before making any system changes. Check the spark strength, could be coil. Timing? Or ballast resistor. Or carb . . . You could start by checking voltage at + side of coil. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 12:40am
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Has this been going on since 2013 ? Here's a link to your thread from back then http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31780&KW=&title=electronic-ignition" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: norrisdam
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 1:10am
| Yes. Same problem. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 9:12am
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Are you missing the ballast resistor? is it there but bypassed? Is the coil stock replacement or something else? Too low impedance in the system will pull too much current than points can handle for long. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: norrisdam
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 9:45am
| No. Ballast resistor not bypassed. Coil is stock. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 9:52am
So what do you have to do to get it running again? Just reset the gap, clean the points, replace the points ? |
norrisdam wrote:Posted By: norrisdam
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 10:02am
| Yes. It will run fine for a few days and then it starts acting up. Coil was replaced 12 years ago. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 10:05am
The question you didn't answer though is What do you do to get it running good again? |
Posted By: norrisdam
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 10:07am
| Also, new ballast resistor in 2013 |
Posted By: norrisdam
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 10:10am
| To get it running good we usually replace plugs, points, cap, rotor and condenser, |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 10:33am
That's a lot to replace every 3 or 4 days of use  What shape are the plugs, points. cap and rotor in when you decide to replace them? Do you have a brand and part number for the new coil you put in a number of years ago? You'll probably get all the same opinions you did back in 2013 when you asked about electronic ignition, What made you decide to stay with points? |
Posted By: norrisdam
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 11:35am
|
Points are almost always the problem. We don’t change everything every 3-4 days.. Not sure on part # for coil. I stayed with the points because there seems to be a lot of negative vibe on the site about going with electronic ignition. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 11:53am
Only from some people You should be able to get it running good with either points or electronic, but that's your choice |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 4:39pm
Greg, How long does the engine sit idle when you get the no start? Have you tried to clean the contact faces of the points when it doesn't start?
A quick cleanup by pulling some fine abrasive paper (like 800) through the points may be the answer? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: zwoobah
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 6:03pm
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An emery board nail file is excellent for cleaning points. Just the right size and grit, with the right stiffness to apply a bit of pressure. ------------- 1968 Mustang 16 - 351W powered |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 6:57pm
Emery board grits: "80 grit – sharp and very rough, used for removing outer gel or acrylic overlays. It’s too rough for natural nails. 180 grit – medium sharp and medium rough, used for preparing nail plate before applying gel or acryl and for shaping artificial nails. 240 grit – not so sharp and rough, for final filing artificial nails. This grit can be used for filing natural nails." All too coarse of a grit in my opinion. You what to remove the oxide that forms on the contact faces and not the Silver Cadmium plating. It's rumored that with the manufacturing done in China that the plating isn't what it used to be!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-08-2019 at 10:22pm
Pete i think you need to share with the rest of the world your secrets about point systems that let you go 20 plus years without looking under the cap Your quote is from norrisdam's thread about his ignition problems in 2013 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 7:01am
Ken,
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 9:35am
Now that's one pretty lame answer Pete. I guess your "maintenance practices" leave something to be desired |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 10:00am
|
Back to the problem, electronic ignition will certainly eliminate points failure, so why not? Sounds like the OP has already spent more money replacing ignition parts than the EI would cost. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 10:26am
I am holding onto my NOS points set in my 85 for dear life. It came in a std rotation screw down Prestolite I bought on ebay in 2007. (I think the guy still has some). Put my reverse rotation gear on and the rest is history. It's got somewhere north of 1200 hours on the points now. My brothers boat presumably has factory points (they are very very thin). It runs like a top so I have no intention of replacing them until failure. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 12:34pm
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I guess you're saying you won't be looking under the cap either Zach. That'll put you in the same "maintenance practices" category as Pete. Do you think there's been any wear on the rubbing block or pitting on the rotor and cap contacts. You won't know till you look. What would you call that? I'd call it preventive maintenance By the way those AC Delco points sets that somebody sent you a few years ago were born before you were. You should be holding on to them for dear life too. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 1:09pm
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They are in a very safe place Ken ha. Look under the cap every year. Dizzy maintinance includes lube on the center pivot and advance mechanism every year or 100 hours. Graphite lube on the points cam too. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 2:55pm
That look under the cap every year is the part that Pete didn't do for 20 or so years. We won't have to call you L'il Pete now
|
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 3:34pm
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Well, getting back to our regularly scheduled programming again For norrisdam, when's the last time the condenser was changed. If it's not working correctly you can have a weak spark and the points will also get pitted quickly and need cleaning at best and replacing if bad enough. If the condenser fails completely, you will have no spark at all no matter what you do with the points. They're cheap, easy to replace and often get ignored when somebody has a points issue. You could test it and think it's good till some current actually goes through it. It may cure your issue, it may not but if you're gonna stick with points you should change it if you haven't lately |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 4:52pm
Now that's one pretty lame answer Pete. [/QUOTE] Gary, Sorry to hear you too have lame answers:
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 7:35pm
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Let's try just plain old English here Pete It's not a question of whether point quality has gotten worse over the years, it a question of what kind of fool goes 20 years without even looking at the points. With a little attention maybe they would have lasted you a while longer
|
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-09-2019 at 8:16pm
 PETE I'M TELLING YOU, IF YOU HAVE POINTS YOU HAVE TO CHECK UNDER THE CAP!!!!! 
|
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: May-10-2019 at 1:24am
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I'm with you Paul !! This is just too perfect ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: May-10-2019 at 6:12am
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------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: May-10-2019 at 2:58pm
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You guys are pretty funny. Points problem history, when I installed my first set back in 1974 I failed to lubricate the lobes. All points used to come with a little container with point lobe lube. I failed to lubricate and the car left me stranded a couple days later. On tear down the points were closed, lack of lube on the new points allowed them to wear until the points closed. A little lube on the lobes is mandatory if you want them to live. I also installed a set of points because my old points had fried. When I bought new points I failed to buy a new condensor. Guess what, a couple days later I was stranded again, points were glazed over and not working. A little file work and a new condensor and they were happy again. Check your voltage to the distributor while cranking and while running. Cranking you should have 12V, after it starts that will drop down, I think 7.8 to 8.5 V. The lower voltage as mentioned above in a post increases the life of your points. Full battery voltage on start up helps you fire up faster. It would help diagnose to know what you see when you take out the old set of points. Is the gap closed? Are the points frosted over? You have a problem that needs to be fixed. The engine will run well with points once fixed. For simplicity I switched a couple engines over to the GM HEI distributor, they make a conversion for the Ford engine. These work very well, start quickly and eliminate points. If you ever have an issue the HEI parts are available at all auto parts stores. I liked the improvement in cold start with the HEI installed. The distributor and plug wires need to be changed if you go with HEI. You need later model high energy plug wires. Edit: the HEI may not meet coast guard requirements for spark control, you don't want to blow up your boat. Hope you get it fixed. Mark ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: May-10-2019 at 3:25pm
PCM didn't wire with a 12v shot during cranking. I have tested both ways and saw no difference. If you are getting low voltage from the get go then that may help start up but really does nothing on a healthy points system. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-10-2019 at 3:49pm
Paul You're all screwed up, that's Pete flogging me with a 28 year old dead fish That's how long he really went without looking at his points according to this old thread http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22775&PN=1&title=electronic-ignition" rel="nofollow - link Here's a quote from the thread in the link, fairly entertaining thread if you read the whole thing
|
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: May-10-2019 at 9:44pm
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Maybe it's just me, but I'm still kinda stuck on how it is that Pete knows so much about acrylic nails and emery boards .... ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: May-11-2019 at 5:43am
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Heck, I want to know how many hours are involved in the 28 years. It may be 28 years and a total of 30 minutes run time!  Sorry Pete, the photo had me ready to jump in. Mark ------------- |
Posted By: Smithfamily
Date Posted: May-11-2019 at 9:13am
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Emery board grits: "80 grit – sharp and very rough, used for removing outer gel or acrylic overlays. It’s too rough for natural nails. 180 grit – medium sharp and medium rough, used for preparing nail plate before applying gel or acryl and for shaping artificial nails. 240 grit – not so sharp and rough, for final filing artificial nails. This grit can be used for filing natural nails." All too coarse of a grit in my opinion. You what to remove the oxide that forms on the contact faces and not the Silver Cadmium plating. It's rumored that with the manufacturing done in China that the plating isn't what it used to be! [/QUOTE] I think we are all missing the POINT here? How has Pete become an expert on emery boards?? Is he hanging out in that Vietnamese nail salon near the Home Depot?? Hahaha ------------- Js |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-11-2019 at 9:23am
You could go to the link a few posts back and read thru it or you could click on this link below. It's in there on the second page http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22775&PN=1&title=electronic-ignition" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: May-12-2019 at 6:12am
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Dang Ken, that post was 3 years before I joined this site. Pete Nice work getting 600 hours out of your set of points. Myself I never had that kind of luck or talent. We always found a way to forget the key was in the Run Position while the engine was not actually running and fried the points. Usually it was a kid that wanted to hear the stereo. I finally wired the stereo live to avoid needing the key on. ------------- |