Starter runs an extra couple seconds
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47693
Printed Date: May-03-2024 at 4:36pm
Topic: Starter runs an extra couple seconds
Posted By: rakerdeal
Subject: Starter runs an extra couple seconds
Date Posted: July-07-2019 at 8:04pm
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As referenced previously in a couple of formerly active posts here: 1998 Sport Nautique with GT40 engine. I have replaced the solonoid and starter and it starts immediately. Noticed recently: Starter runs a couple seconds too long or more than needed. Any thoughts would be appreciated! ------------- CYS |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-07-2019 at 8:37pm
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Charles, Get the VOM (volt Ohm meter) out and check voltage at the starter during cranking.. If you get the volts for those few extra seconds, then the issue is electrical. If not ,then it mechanical. Report back. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-07-2019 at 8:56pm
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Just to be sure, that would be the small 10 gauge wire to the starter mounted solenoid where you'd be checking voltage when you start it, since the big one always has battery voltage to it on your starter Since you had grinding issues previously, hopefully the ring gear isn't damaged causing the pinion to hang up when disengaging. I'd make sure the starter is seated flat against the bellhousing and not cocked slightly also |
Posted By: rakerdeal
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 10:36am
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OK KENO, I used the volt meter and it does appear that I am getting current too long...but honestly I'm not certain of that. The starter was bolted on flat and solid against the bell housing. I have taken it off again to show both the starter pinion and the ring gear for you to look at. Can I test the starter now that it is off the boat? If so, what specifically should I look for? Thanks, Charles   ------------- CYS |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 11:50am
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Your battery is not one of those deep cycle marine pos is it? ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 12:03pm
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I don't see anything obvious in either picture I'll get a little long winded here, but hopefully it'll be easy to understand/follow You can test it on the workbench with a battery, a set of jumper cables and a jumper wire with alligator clips hooked up like in the picture below. Positive jumper to the big terminal that the 2 gauge wire normally hooks to, negative to the metal body of the starter and the small jumper where the wire from the engine mounted solenoid normally hooks up As soon as you touch the small jumper to the big one like in the picture the starter starts and the pinion is shot out and stays out till you remove the small jumper and the pinion will or should retract pretty much instantly  If it takes a couple of seconds then it's a starter issue If it works as it should, then I'd reinstall the starter and wire it normally but leave the small wire disconnected and tape over the end Then using the same small jumper with the alligator clips, hook one end to the small terminal on the starter that you just left the wire off of, Then preferably with a helper named Pax turn the ignition key to the RUN position and touch the small jumper to the big terminal on the starter. That energizes the starter just like going to START would and the engine should start and run till the key is turned to OFF. As soon as the engine is running, remove the clip and see if the starter still takes a couple of seconds to disengage Since you're right down near the starter when doing this, you should be able to tell if it disengages right away or still takes a couple of seconds. If it takes a couple of seconds, I'd figure the pinion is hanging up on the flywheel . If it's instant, I'd go back to the engine mounted solenoid or the key switch looking for a problem When you're done , don't forget to hook up the small wire again so that you can start the boat with the key  |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 12:30pm
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Great instructions Ken, Yes anything electrical or mechanical in the starter that inhibits the bendix from retracting promptly when the starter-mounted solenoid is electrically disengaged will keep the contacts together longer then they should be. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: rakerdeal
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 1:58pm
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First test, the work bench: Starter starts and stops immediately. Next steps on the way. ------------- CYS |
Posted By: rakerdeal
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 3:03pm
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KENO you wrote: "If it works as it should, then I'd reinstall the starter and wire it normally but leave the small wire disconnected and tape over the end Then using the same small jumper with the alligator clips, hook one end to the small terminal on the starter that you just left the wire off of, Then preferably with a helper named Pax turn the ignition key to the RUN position and touch the small jumper to the big terminal on the starter. That energizes the starter just like going to START would and the engine should start and run till the key is turned to OFF. As soon as the engine is running, remove the clip and see if the starter still takes a couple of seconds to disengage Since you're right down near the starter when doing this, you should be able to tell if it disengages right away or still takes a couple of seconds." When I do this? Nothing happens. Small yellow/red wire to starter disconnected and taped; my jumper wire connected to this small terminal on the starter; ignition turned to "on"; my jumper wire connected to small terminal on starter --- the other end now clipped to the large terminal on the starter. If I have this correct...I have nothing. LOL, I must be doing something interestingly wrong! ------------- CYS |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 6:18pm
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You didn't do something like disconnect the battery before removing the starter and then forget to hook it back up did you? Do you have 12 volts at the big terminal on the starter? |
Posted By: rakerdeal
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 6:50pm
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KENO, I do not have voltage at the big terminal on the starter. Looking again at the diagram we all had examined... ...I am confused...maybe. ------------- CYS |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 6:58pm
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I just had my 1995 GT 40 starter out this morning, one thing I noticed, on my tear down the bendix, the teeth inside the starter housing was lubricated with a little black high temp grease. Yours looks to be dry and clean. Would it hurt to add a film of high temp grease on the shaft and the teeth before install? PCM did it on mine. Hope you get it fixed. Mark ------------- |
Posted By: rakerdeal
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 7:02pm
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OK KENO, by the diagram we are all looking at... Does the red cable that comes from the rear solonoid going to the large terminal on the starter mounted solonoid come from the same rear mounted solonoid terminal that the battery cable and breaker cable attach to? Looks like to me it does. Then the other smaller wire from the rear solonoid going to the smaller starter mounted solonoid terminal comes from a different/separate terminal on the rear mounted solonoid. The way I have my boat wired now: The larger starter mounted solonoid terminal is fed from the red wire that attaches to the opposite side of the rear solonoid than the battery cable and breaker cable. ------------- CYS |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 7:07pm
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If your battery is hooked up properly that big wire on your started should be HOT all the time. If it is not HOT trace it back to your battery and find where it is not connected. There is an ignition switch on the dash board on these boats and it must be ON to start but the main wire from your battery direct to your starter is live/Hot all the time. Maybe you are not getting a good ground to make this test. I reached in and grounded to one of the Steel plugs in the engine block, it was not painted and an easy ground to grab. The aluminum engine cradle did not ground for me. ------------- |
Posted By: rakerdeal
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 7:34pm
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Case solved KENO, starting perfectly. After all we'd gone through, I simply still had it wired wrong. My memory says the way it is wired now is the same as it was when it wouldn't shut down. But at 65 my memory may be a problem! Pax and I stared at the diagram we wired by, it looked so simple! He made 790 on the math SAT, he builds all kinds of technical electrical stuff as a hobbly so... Who knows? Thank you again, your investigative skills are delightful to interact with. And MrMcD thank you for your post too, it all helps. 1998 Sport Nautique --- that I bought after my neighbor accidently burned my 1999 Air Nautique ---- that replace the 1998 Air that another neighbor sunk ---- with only 280 hours on it ---- is now back on the water! I am guessing that the "doubly wired" erronous mode I had rigged was giving the starter a "double boost" ? Let me know if you know what was happening. Thanks. ------------- CYS |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 8:48pm
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I'm thinking however you have it hooked up right now.............keep it that way Here's a page from the GT40 manual showing the wiring at the solenoid it's a little tougher to follow than the more generic TRB diagram from earlier but it shows all the connections to the engine mounted solenoid 65, that's old, almost as old as that old fart Pete,,,,,,,and me and a number of others here We're "experienced" 
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Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-08-2019 at 10:32pm
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This is a picture of my 1995 GT40 starter in place. It only has two wires, the main Red Lead from the battery mine in photo only shows the black area where it attaches at the bolt and the Start wire, Yellow, that pushes on and activates the Starter.   ------------- |