Winterzing Question
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48063
Printed Date: April-29-2024 at 8:49am
Topic: Winterzing Question
Posted By: Crmaverick
Subject: Winterzing Question
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 1:14pm
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Hey guys Im looking at getting everything I need to winterize next month. Is there a special pickup tube anyone has a link to for cycling antifreeze out of a bucket? I was planning on filling a 5 gallon Home Depot bucket with coolant and cycling that through the trans cooler intake. Should I drain water out of the block/manifolds or is cycling 5 gallons of coolant good enough? |
Replies:
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 1:36pm
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Im not a proponent of using the engine to do the job, lots of variables to go awry, and waste. First, and most critical. Drain each side of block, and each manifold, and the iron recirc elbow if you have one. Water is the enemy, so we remove the enemy. don't rely on any dilution scheme to save the engine. loosen and drain low hoses near your raw water pump and tranny cooler Buy 2 gal antifreeze and direct pour, first into block, then each manifold ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Crmaverick
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 1:52pm
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Thanks are the plugs to drain the block on the heads or are there other plugs? Also what ports do you fill anti freeze into on the block? |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 2:09pm
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No, the block drains are purposefully placed low on the block, just above the oil pan rail they are 1/4 NPT brass plugs, one each side. You can fill the block from the gazzinta, on the thermostat housing, where the water is delivered from the raw water pump Remove the hose on the tstat housing, and replace it with another piece of scrap hose to help direct your pour into the engine. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 2:19pm
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The impeller will take on a set over the winter and some vanes will not spring back. The vanes returning create the low pressure for suction, bent over, they don't return, and don't pull water. The system will loose some efficiency. Given your power levels, lots of water flow would be best, so care of the pump is warrented Once option is to remove it from the housing for the winter and get some more life out of it. this also has the insurance of not leaving water in the pump, and risk the housing popping. its rare because the neoprene absorbs the expansion. That said, mercuiser plastic housings like to crack easy. But you wouldn't want to replace your raw water pump$ ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Crmaverick
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 2:53pm
Good info to have thanks, trying to push this off as long as possible lol |
GottaSki wrote:Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 3:41pm
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Tom's method above is sound advice. Be sure you drain everything first no matter what method you use, If you have a heater or shower that needs to be included as well. I am a proponent of the suck up method, takes a bit more a/f doing it that way but IMO is an equally sound method. Put the pickup hose directly in the bucket or if too short splice in a small section of clear hose that get's you down into the bottom of the bucket. Mine will use about 3-4 gallons but I have a heater and shower so a bit more capacity. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 4:17pm
Not familiar with gazzinta? I’m an old guy, what’s it mean? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 4:46pm
It's the inverse of gazzouta  To use gazzinta in a sentence you would say something like "fill the block from where water goes into the thermostat housing" |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 5:03pm
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Exactly, slang the internet says made famous in Beverly Hillbillies, for math, gazintas, but I've seen it used in media earlier ... like movie Halls of Montezuma, (1951) opening scene in the landing craft, marines discussing a small plumbing device he asked a guy to carry on him as they go ashore so they could make a still (er, booze) after things slowed down. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 7:44pm
| Must be north of the Mason-Dixon Line. I lived in Boston 3 years but never heard it in the northeast. That was in the early 70’s so perhaps the word had not been coined at that time. |
Posted By: Crmaverick
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 8:35pm
So how crucial is it to drain the manifolds? The plugs are frozen solid in there |
Posted By: RealDeez
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 9:08pm
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I would guess you can either try to drain them and risk breaking them or let them freeze and risk breaking them. Which set of dice would you like to roll? My guess is damage from forcible drain plug removal would be minimal and repairable. Freeze damage... not so much. I'm a noob though so definitely wait on a second opinion. ------------- Lake James, IN 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Crmaverick
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 9:15pm
I pressed on the breaker bar with my leg and broke them lose haha |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-18-2019 at 9:37pm
Now find the closest trash can and give them a new home and replace them with some brass 3/4 inch pipe plugs. They don't have to be in gorilla tight either A little sealer like thread sealer, pipe dope or teflon tape or a variety of other similar stuff helps to keep them from leaking without using much tightening force. |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: September-19-2019 at 10:01am
I always add a little bearing grease / brake grease to the plug threads when I install them, it can help to prevent the threads in the block from rusting. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-19-2019 at 10:43am
| The manuals in the Reference section are a wonderful thing. |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: September-19-2019 at 1:38pm
I replaced the 1/4" brass plugs with these (from McMaster-Carr): JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-19-2019 at 4:12pm
JQ, Hopefully you just posted the wrong picture and didn't actually use the ones pictured.. The preferred drain cock has the removable stem so you can probe the drain hole for sediment. here's the McMaster with the removable stem. Besides 1/4 NPT, they also come in 1/8 and 3/8 NPT.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: September-19-2019 at 6:53pm
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Yup Pete....dems are da ones. I copied the wrong pix. ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: SteveZ
Date Posted: October-20-2019 at 4:51pm
| Hi all, I own a 1968 Barracuda with a 225 Chrysler engine. I removed both engine block drain plugs, the center manifold plugs and the rear hoses attached to the risers along with the 2 hoses to the water pump. My plan is now to reattach all plugs/hoses and add 70/30 antifreeze via the 2 lower inlets two the water pump. I have set up 2 hoses going from the water pump into a 5 gal bucket of the antifreeze mixture. When near the end of sucking up all the antifreeze I will fog the carb. Would that be enough to properly winterize the boat. I couldn't drain the bottom hose fro the hill cooler bit there is a bolt at the lowest part that I loosened with no water coming through. Thanks, Steve |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-20-2019 at 5:47pm
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Steve, What's the 70/30? Are you diluting? Typical non toxic RV antifreeze shouldn't be diluted. Sucking!!!!! AF is way more complicated than needed. Pour the AF in at the T stat hose. Fog, drain and pour. I've done a few 318's in 50 years!  So you can confirm all the points that need draining, http://www.correctcraftfan.com/Downloads/Chrysler%20Marine%20Engine%20Manual.pdf" rel="nofollow - here's a link to the Chrysler manual in the refference section. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-20-2019 at 8:45pm
Hi new guy Steve Don't mind Pete with all those exclamation points. He really needs to clean his keyboard so that particular key doesn't stick Maybe you've done some reading on winterizing methods but you'll get told a bunch of different ways of winterizing including sucking in anti freeze like you're figuring on doing, pouring it in like the Pete method, using RV antifreeze or using automotive antifreeze or just leaving things drained. with no antifreeze. Most everybody swears by "their method" 70/30 sounds like you're using automotive antifreeze which you'll get lots of comments about. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-20-2019 at 11:41pm
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Ken you left out the towing it south for the winter....... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: SteveZ
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 12:15am
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Using straight auto antifreeze diluted with 30% water. I have the manual and all the ports have been drained. The hose to the T stat is really on there and cannot remove so I am going the water pump route. Ken you are absolutely correct in the many ways to this, everyone seems to have their own way that they swear by. The manual actually does not instruct on antifreeze for the raw water system and the guy I bought the boat from gets most of the water out and then adding a minimal amount of freeze. He charged me 25o bucks last year so that is why I'm doing myself. Is it really important to remove the plugs and spray oil then turn over? If I get the T stat hose off and with most of the water out, isn't it not safe to run and fog and pour considering the engine would overheat? And where do I add antifreeze to the manifold? I can see some members rolling their eyes over my comments but I want to get this right and this site had the most info on correct crafts and 318's. I was also considering taking off the thermostat to ensure proper distribution. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 8:26am
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Does anyone know of a marine engine manufacturer whos layup instructions utilize the AF suck up/pump through method? Most of the old ones like Interceptor, Chrysler, OMC, Gray, Chris, PCM, Waukesha, were drain only. I for years used the drain only and many still do. I laid up a Chris yesterday and only drained but with most of the old Hercules blocks hard piping prevents pouring .I could have pumped but why when draining has worked for over 70 years. The newer PCM manual in our reference section pictures drain and pour which I use when possible. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 8:29am
  Steve, I sure hope you use some method of collecting the AF come spring. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 9:13am
What Pete is saying pretty much is like this As a starting point the boat is in the water you've put your favorite brand of stabilizer in the gas tank, driven it around some to get the stabilized fuel into the carburetor and you're gonna put it on the trailer and winterize it So you park it on the trailer, slowly put some fogging oil down the carburetor while it's running and when things get smoky out the exhaust you turn the boat off and the insides of the engine have a good coating of oil. Now you can take the boat home and drain the water from the engine, the exhaust manifolds and the transmission cooler. Put back in whatever plugs you pulled and hook up any hoses that you disconnected. Now you can take off the thermostat cover and remove the thermostat and pour in your choice of antifreeze, whether it be automotive or RV antifreeze or boiler antifreeze Some people will fill it to the top of the thermostat opening, some add a gallon or 2 to mix with any residual water that might be there. And some will now be done and others might drain everything out again and leave the engine drained for the winter and any residual liquid that might be left in the system will be mixed with antifreeze and not do any damage Now you have an engine that's fogged with oil, drained of water and has some antifreeze in it unless you drain it back out again as mentioned above. Now the really important part for some people is to remove the raw water pump, take the impeller(s) out, put everything in a plastic bag and put it under your pillow for the winter where it will be nice and warm and cozy. I think Pete does this I think that's kinda silly myself to have that lump under the pillow, so I put it in the nightstand next to the bed. Like I said there are a million variations on winterizing, this is a fairly generalized version of one way that works up north and everybody will have something they do a little differently. One thing to keep in mind is that if you drain the water out of the engine, manifolds and transmission cooler, it's hard to go wrong after that with whatever your choice is Depending on area of the country, some people will drop the hose into a 5 gallon bucket of RV antifreeze and suck it through the engine without draining first. For some it works and for some it doesn't. You being in Massachusetts probably wouldn't want to take that chance Get the water out first and then do that and you shouldn't have any problems Minus 50 RV antifreeze will freeze at around 10 to 15 degrees above zero, but it doesn't expand enough to break pipes, engines etc till minus 50 as long as it's not diluted. Diluting it can raise that burst temperature pretty dramatically. If I fogged it through the carburetor I wouldn't worry too much about pulling the spark plugs and squirting some oil in each cylinder. I have to go and check on my impeller and pump now |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 9:27am
Do you pour in what the manual tells you to Pete? Which manual are you looking at specifically? |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 10:02am
Last winter, early spring a friend of mine found a deal at Tractor Supply on RV AF. We bought 4 cases (48 gal) for $1 a gallon. Should be set for a while.  I prefer the drain, suck up, drain method myself. Not a big fan of StaBil so I run the carb dry after siphoning the tank empty. Fog carb as it is dying. That is MY method, right or wrong. I'm sure this method will be questioned. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: SteveZ
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 10:02am
| I would never place the boat in the water without fully flushing all freeze put.I drain the freeze just like winterizing then run water with 2 barrels at the exhaust to catch the rest. All the freeze is then paced in containers to take to disposal., |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 10:25am
NO, I DO NOT USE "Prestone" or "Zerox". per the manual. Do you? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 10:41am
QUIT YELLING So you only use and quote parts of the manual that you feel like Your version of newer is still pretty old too. In the 70's they said water and automotive antifreeze 50/50 Late 80's they said 50/50 water and food grade antifreeze 93 manual and the 95 thru 01 they said 50/50 water and environmentally safe permanent antifreeze By the time you get to the 03 manual in the reference section, they're just let's say "non specific" about what to use |
Posted By: SteveZ
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 10:54am
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Ken and Pete, first of all many thanks for your recommendations. If I go with the auto antifreeze route I would flush all out and dispose before placing in the water. Right now my boat has been drained without having fogged the motor. I could either add water through the pump, fog,. empty all the water ports again and fill antifreeze via the thermostat as you both recommended.. Or add the antifreeze mix through the pump (since the engine has been already drained) with the thermostat removed and fog when full of antifreeze mix. Both ways should work. I will take of off the pump for the winter nap and that should be it. Thanks again to both of you! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 11:01am
Ken, Please note I refferenced a method and not a material. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 11:03am
I just use the green stuff- it flushes out ok in about a quarter mile  It only seems to be a problem if a bunch of you go out  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: SteveZ
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 11:33am
| OK, Going to Walmart and exchanging the Antifreeze with RV freeze. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 11:40am
If you're a little nervous about the RV antifreeze, look for minus 75 degree stuff for a little more protection. And yes, your suck up method described will work
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 11:47am
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[QUOTE=Gary S] I just use the green stuff- it flushes out ok in about a quarter mile Good thing St Patty's day only comes once a year
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 11:51am
Like I said before, I'll note that you only use and quote parts of the manual that you feel like,otherwise you wouldn't have been giving Steve crap with the dead fish picture and picking on his suck up method. |
Posted By: Crmaverick
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 12:09pm
| If someone is doing the suck up method and the motor is cold does the thermostat need to be removed? |
Posted By: SteveZ
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 4:01pm
| 5 gal of coolant to motor until coming out of thermostat housing. Fogged carb but I hope I got enough in. Didn't realize how fast the motor pumped in 5 gal. Water pump out as well. Couldn't believe how foul that thermostat area was inside. Lots of rust! The only question I have is the oil; cooler/trans cooler unit. The hose on the down side was frozen so I did not undo. There was a small fitting at the bottom which I took out - no fluids came out. I ordered a special tool used to extract hoses. Thanks again and have a great winter. Can't wait to get that boat back in the water. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 10:21pm
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The water side of the cooler is not too strong where the hoses attach so prying with anything may deform the fitting. The little fitting is a water side drain so if nothing came out it was either drained or plugged The easiest way to drain the water side of the cooler is to unhook the other end of the hose up at the water pump and lower the hose below cooler level to empty it since the little plug can cause problems if it's stuck and you apply too much force deforming or breaking the cooler end bell. When you sucked 5 gallons thru the cooler, you made sure it was full of antifreeze |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 10:27pm
The popular answer is to take it out, but if the engine is drained first so the water is out, it will fill up when you start it, with some water filling the engine and some going through the exhaust manifolds Most all those people who pump 5 gallons through their engine have small blocks that hold less coolant than a 454, so if you're thinking of sucking up the pink stuff, I thin I'd go with 7 gallons or so As far as the thermostat..............."If in doubt, take it out"
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Posted By: SteveZ
Date Posted: October-21-2019 at 11:03pm
| Thanks Ken, I''ll loosen that fitting again since now the motor has a fill of coolant to see if anything comes out. It no fluid then I'll try your lowering the hose method. Next fall I'll be a pro at this! LOL |
Posted By: trice
Date Posted: October-28-2019 at 10:15pm
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I Bought some CAMCO ARTIC BAN -50 (pink stuff) to pour into my 87 351W. The label says it contains ETHYL ALCOHOL 64-17-5 as well as GLYCOL AND DENATURANTS. The label also says NOT to use it in a automotive radiator or a boat engine?? Is this RV/MARINE antifreeze a suitable replacement for automotive antifreeze or do I need to get some different “pink stuff”? My plan is to pour it full strength (after draining of course) as described in the old PCM Engine Owners Manual, paragraph k, pg.31. Thanks ------------- 87 SN |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: October-28-2019 at 11:53pm
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On the CAMCO website, it shows that the Arctic Ban -50 is not recommended for marine engines. You want the Freeze Ban -50 or the Winter Ban -100. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: trice
Date Posted: October-29-2019 at 9:19am
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Thanks JQ and Keno! Going to get some straight Propylene Glycol “pink stuff” w/inhibitors. ------------- 87 SN |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-29-2019 at 9:45am
My post that you thanked me for got deleted.(accidentally by me } but the Freeze Ban has more corrosion inhibitors than the Arctic Ban and is a different composition but both will work.Good choice |