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Twin-Engine Fish Nautique #2

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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48244
Printed Date: March-29-2024 at 1:00am


Topic: Twin-Engine Fish Nautique #2
Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Subject: Twin-Engine Fish Nautique #2
Date Posted: November-24-2019 at 10:06pm
I just bought another twin-engine Fish Nautique! This is number two of the three that were built. I already own the 1981, and this one is the 1983. The last one ever made (a 1986) is still out there somewhere!

This one is currently on the way to Lake Norman from New York. It should be here on Tuesday.









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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)



Replies:
Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-24-2019 at 10:08pm
I haven't seen this one in person yet, but it is supposed to have rotary engines. That'll be a new experience for me. I'm sure they'll need to be rebuilt because this boat has been sitting for about ten years. Anyone have any experience with having rotary engines rebuilt?

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: November-24-2019 at 11:09pm
Rotary engines. Well they’re small for one thing. Reliable to a point and they suck gas like crazy but they’re cool. Are they 13B or the 12A variants? I’m sure Mazda club enthusiasts will be of help if they need rebuilding but maybe they’re still in good shape. Unique is an understatement.


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-24-2019 at 11:31pm
I have zero experience with rotary engines. Who knows? Maybe they'll fire right up.

No idea what they are yet. I'll post some pictures on Tuesday.

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-24-2019 at 11:49pm
I believe john b had experience with rotary powered boats and actually owned one at one time. He hasn't logged in though since June although it is time for a Mustang update.
Here is his profile http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=11341" rel="nofollow - link

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: November-25-2019 at 1:36am
I owned a couple of Mazda RX-7 cars back in the mid 1980's. These came with the Wankel Rotary Engine. I thought the engine was a great little power-plant -- though not the most economical. They were notorious for being "cold-blooded" and my cars had factory manual choke levers. I had my last RX-7 fitted with an after-market turbo and that little Japanese "Corvette" was a rocketship. I owned a Porsche 911SC at the same time, and the RX-7 with the after-market turbo was quicker 0-60.

I often wondered about running a Wankel rotary engine in a marine application as the rotary is a high revving machine. With dual rotary engines in the Fish, I'm assuming that one is "reverse rotation". Don't know if the Wankel engine works righty/lefty like a standard piston mill with just a few changes...

As far as rebuilding...I believe that the apex seals for the rotors are typical major wear items for the Wankel. Don't know what rebuild kit availability is 30 years later...

Cool project.

JQ

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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

Previous
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum


Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: November-25-2019 at 1:43am
https://www.rx7club.com/general-rotary-tech-support-11/" rel="nofollow - Mazda Rotary tech forum

I’m sure this link is a decent place to find some information. I drove a Cartech Turbo 13B Mazda at a driving school (it was a student’s car) and it inspired greatness.


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-26-2019 at 7:53pm
Well, this boat arrived this evening. It is very cool, but it is in pretty rough shape.

The engines are rotary 175c engines, which is kinda cool, but they are in rough shape, and will definitely need rebuilds.

Floor is fairly solid, but I am assuming the stringers are likely in need of replacement. It appears to have been stored outside for the last ten years or so unfortunately.

The trailer is the original 1983 Correct Craft 5-T-DV, modified at the factory for a twin-engine boat. It is in decent shape, and the wheels, tires and bearings are new.

One outstanding thing about this boat is the documentation that came with it. EVERYTHING seems to be there from the original owner's manual, to the engine manual for the original PCM V6 engines, all warranty cards from 1983, and even a signed letter from Walt Meloon appraising the boat in 1985. The receipt for the rotary engines from 1998 is there, and lots of other maintenance receipts.

Not sure what I am goin to do with this one yet. It is a little more of a project than I was hoping, but it is an important piece of Nautique/Correct Craft history.















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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: 1993R
Date Posted: November-26-2019 at 8:38pm
I used to race cars and have owned a couple of Rx-7's
Rotor motors are light but put out most HP at high rpms
Not much torque
If they overheat your done.
Apex seals and rotor housings are huge wear items.
Rotor housings are hard to find replacement items.
We operated the 12b/13b motors with a small amount of oil in the gas to help the apex seals longevity.
I would look at putting the straight 6's back in the boat if thats what came with it.
That's my .02c
Looking forward to watching the restoration


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-26-2019 at 10:09pm
I too would be inclined to go back to the 6's. Where they straights or V's? PCM's? What were they? I'd look at keeping the Hurth's since I've heard noting but good about them. I also recall Eric saying the Hurth's can be run in reverse changing the engine rotation. If so, then getting a RR engine wouldn't be needed.

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64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
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Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: November-26-2019 at 10:36pm
Yeah I watched a few YouTube videos on rebuilding a Wankel RX8 and there’s just no compelling reason to mess with those crazy engines in spite of the “cool factor” other than you already have them and if they start and run, you’ll maybe save a ton of cash (or not). With all you’re doing in this project I would go back to a pair of stock PCM 6’s and make it original.


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-26-2019 at 11:01pm
I doubt I could find a set of PCM V6 engines now. Maybe I am wrong. I do actually have a set for my other twin-engine Fish Nautique, but I think I will probably keep those with that boat.

The 1986 twin-engine Fish Nautique that I don't own has twin 454 engines. Maybe I'll put a couple of those in this one.

It is unfortunate that the previous owner paid over $16,000 for the rotary engines (way back in 1998), and now they are likely junk.



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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: November-26-2019 at 11:27pm
Marinized Mazda 13bs crazy 90s fun- if the manifolds and accessories are salvageable I would try to junkyard source a couple 13bs cause why not?

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001
1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video


Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 12:54am
Twin 350s would make a pretty sporty boat 454 is alot of extra weight., There were more twins than you think. I know of 2 or 3 around orlando.

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1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 1:23am
Oh, really? That is news to me. Got any pictures of them? I have been searching for pictures so that I know how certain things were set up from the factory.

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 2:36am
There has been 2 or 3 for sale all had 4.3 engines if I recall same as old blazers had or bayliner etc. Some of the singles have gotten converted with a bracket to outboard and run pretty well apparently.

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1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 3:02am
Yeah, I have seen a couple of the outboard conversions.

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 9:10am
http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5550" rel="nofollow - http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5550
Which one of the 3 is that?


Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 10:09am
IIRC Woody always said there were 2-3. I seen a blue twin 4.3 a lot at SECC. Also got the impression that if I ever came across one of the twin FN to run away. Guess there was a reason for so few.

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Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation
1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort
1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 11:17am
Originally posted by Orlando76 Orlando76 wrote:

. Also got the impression that if I ever came across one of the twin FN to run away.

It sure would be interesting to find out some more info. Maybe Art and or Woody will see this and maybe fill us in.

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64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 11:28am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5550" rel="nofollow - http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5550
Which one of the 3 is that?


Clearly the information that I have heard over the years from multiple sources was flawed.

I am sorry.




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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 11:33am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Orlando76 Orlando76 wrote:

. Also got the impression that if I ever came across one of the twin FN to run away.

It sure would be interesting to find out some more info. Maybe Art and or Woody will see this and maybe fill us in.


I have discussed the '81 with Art quite a bit. He's the one that found the build sheets, etc. for me, and he is also supposed to search for the '83 info when he gets time. I have never gotten the idea that these boats were to be avoided. Curious as to why that would be.





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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 11:41am
And there were twin engine San Juan, Cuddy and Sea Nautiques.


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 11:48am
Very true.

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 12:13pm
Do these have single or twin gas tanks?

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 12:26pm
This one, as well as the '81, have single tanks. Not sure if they all only had one or not.

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5550" rel="nofollow - http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5550
Which one of the 3 is that?


the 4th one ya little Bia

Don't be a hater cuz you only have 1 screw

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt


Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 3:27pm
Seems like used engines and new ones are available at least here;
https://www.1800runsnew.com/re-manufactured-engines/


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 4:18pm
4.3's are popular 302 replacements in the 20' Shamrock world,just as much power way easier to get parts and a tad more room in the compartment. Twin engines lose their redundancy when you have only one tank.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 6:32pm
The 4.3L is a Chevy 350 with two cylinders cut off, that is why parts are less expensive and available. Same Water Pump, same layout just a little smaller if you have access.

The Mazda conversion is an odd one for sure, I only drove one of the rotary engines but I remember it could spin 8,000 RPM and sounded like a sewing machine. It was fast but like others mentioned very low on torque. Maybe they used a small prop and spun it very fast?

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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 7:40pm
Quite a number of places that marinize the Mazda engines.

A Google search will get you there   

Here's one of those places in the link click on the catalog

http://www.atkinsrotarymarine.com/" rel="nofollow - link

The outfit in NY that did Jeff's engines is out of business it looks like

Big heavy boat, I figure they used a gear reduction transmission like a Hurth with a 2.03 to 1 reduction ratio and pretty normal sized props, but that's just me figurin' or maybe looking at one of Jeff's pictures earlier in the thread

Originally posted by NautiqueJeff NautiqueJeff wrote:








For some unknown reason I have this wild urge to put one of those engines in a 16 ft Mustang. Just one would do.


Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 10:05pm
Mother of pearl. That’s bad ass.


Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Quite a number of places that marinize the Mazda engines.

A Google search will get you there   

Here's one of those places in the link click on the catalog

http://www.atkinsrotarymarine.com/" rel="nofollow - link

The outfit in NY that did Jeff's engines is out of business it looks like

Big heavy boat, I figure they used a gear reduction transmission like a Hurth with a 2.03 to 1 reduction ratio and pretty normal sized props, but that's just me figurin' or maybe looking at one of Jeff's pictures earlier in the thread

Originally posted by NautiqueJeff NautiqueJeff wrote:








For some unknown reason I have this wild urge to put one of those engines in a 16 ft Mustang. Just one would do.


A 13B turbo was one of the most exciting race car drives I’ve ever experienced. Not the wildest, but clearly memorable to this day and that was in 1986.


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 11:16pm
I have not looked at prop numbers, sizes, pitch, etc., but just from a visual perspective, the props on this 1983 look significantly bigger than the ones on the 1981.



Above are the props on the 1981 with the V6 engines.
Below are the props on this boat (1983 with the rotary engines).






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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 11:20pm
There is a place in Kannapolis (a couple towns over from me in Mooresville) that works on these engines, and even has experience with marine rotary engines. I may swing this by there and see if they think anything is salvageable.

http://www.rotorsportsracing.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.rotorsportsracing.com

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-27-2019 at 11:35pm
Not that this letter means anything at all about its condition now, but I thought this was a pretty cool piece of documentation that came with the boat.





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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: November-28-2019 at 2:42am
I can verify that having been on Sea Nautique I can not recommend buying one to fish for dolphin in , You will get sea sick.

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1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-28-2019 at 7:52am
Originally posted by NautiqueJeff NautiqueJeff wrote:

I have zero experience with rotary engines. Who knows? Maybe they'll fire right up. .

Did the seller give you any indication of the engine(s) condition?

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64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-28-2019 at 9:31am
Ran when parked

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: November-28-2019 at 12:22pm
"Does not run, but quick, cheap, easy, simple fix"

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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?”
“Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.”


Posted By: 1993R
Date Posted: November-28-2019 at 12:30pm
I would use a 50:1 or 40:1 premix to fire them off at a minimum.


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-28-2019 at 12:45pm
No, there was no indication that anything works from the seller. If something does, I'll just be that much happier.

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: November-29-2019 at 1:24am
I think I'd have a hard time tossing out the cool factor of the wankels in favor of V6's. Very neat project Jeff!

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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-29-2019 at 7:58am
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

I think I'd have a hard time tossing out the cool factor of the wankels in favor of V6's. Very neat project Jeff!


What he said


Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: November-29-2019 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

I think I'd have a hard time tossing out the cool factor of the wankels in favor of V6's. Very neat project Jeff!


What he said


2 X What he said

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Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-29-2019 at 9:41pm
Guess I'm the only naysayer,turn them into anchors. They must not have been that great or everyone would have had them in their product line up. Plus the fact that they were not in the boat to begin with. Having to rebuild 2 questionable power units plus refurbish the boat will get you upside down fast

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-29-2019 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Guess I'm the only naysayer,turn them into anchors. They must not have been that great or everyone would have had them in their product line up. Plus the fact that they were not in the boat to begin with. Having to rebuild 2 questionable power units plus refurbish the boat will get you upside down fast

Gary,
I don't think you are the only naysayer:
Originally posted by 1993R 1993R wrote:


I would look at putting the straight 6's back in the boat if thats what came with it.

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

I too would be inclined to go back to the 6's. Where they straights or V's? PCM's? What were they? .


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64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-30-2019 at 12:09am
Yeah, I am kind of torn on this one.

I am going to run the boat by the shop in Kannapolis that rebuilds these engines and see what they think. They have some experience with these in marine applications. If the cost is going to be crazy with unknown results I may go back to something more normal.

One other thing to consider is that if I do end up swapping them out, I'd need new transmissions and props too. If I rebuild these, the gears and props should still work.

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: November-30-2019 at 12:14am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Having to rebuild 2 questionable power units plus refurbish the boat will get you upside down fast


You're probably right on that. I am still not sure what I am going to do with this boat. I will probably keep it and restore it, but I may sell it as-is if someone wants it and would be willing to save it. I just don't want to see a rare twin-engine Fish Nautique end up in the landfill.

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-30-2019 at 8:00am
Originally posted by NautiqueJeff NautiqueJeff wrote:


One other thing to consider is that if I do end up swapping them out, I'd need new transmissions and props too. If I rebuild these, the gears and props should still work.

Don't give up on those trans's yet. Think about all the boats out there running reductions and big aggressive props.

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64 X55 Dunphy

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<


Posted By: 1993R
Date Posted: November-30-2019 at 2:30pm
old discussion I found on same issue:

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/183119-rotary-engine.html


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-30-2019 at 3:01pm
Link not working Pete, I’d fix it but I’m on my phone

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-30-2019 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Link not working Pete, I’d fix it but I’m on my phone

Trying but we've got some internet problems up here today.

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64 X55 Dunphy

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<


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-30-2019 at 3:13pm
[QUOTE=1993R] old discussion I found on same issue:

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/183119-rotary-engine.html" rel="nofollow - Here's a direct link

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64 X55 Dunphy

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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-30-2019 at 3:16pm
And another link to more reading

https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/marinizing-rotary-engine.23824/" rel="nofollow - link


Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: November-30-2019 at 10:02pm
Link to video of Wankel Rotary race boat. Sounds pretty cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpxK2ub-qCs&feature=related" rel="nofollow - LINK to Video

JQ

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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

Previous
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum


Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-01-2019 at 9:49am
Wonder what the logic was in converting the boat to Wankels?


Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: December-01-2019 at 11:29am
All things considered. My preference would be a donor boat or two , with a couple of useable engines and running gear. Something close to oem or better. K.I.S.S.
Really like the wankel idea but seems unrealistic now


Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-01-2019 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Guess I'm the only naysayer,turn them into anchors. They must not have been that great or everyone would have had them in their product line up. Plus the fact that they were not in the boat to begin with. Having to rebuild 2 questionable power units plus refurbish the boat will get you upside down fast

Good point Gary, it's easy for someone like me to say "go with the rotary's" when it's not my time and money on the line! Or maybe I could suggest Jeff put a couple of Ilmor's in there.

But ..... if you grab a pair of 6 cylinders, and let's say at a minimum you have to refresh the top end, and maybe carbs need rebuild, and on it goes ..... I'm not sure that if you have someone knowledgable look at these engines that they won't give you the straight scoop, like "we have to tear them both down, new apex seals, blah blah blah and our estimate is $6,500 for the pair", in which case you move on and look elsewhere. If instead they say "let's spin them and check compression, if the seals are good we can clean them up, make sure fuel and ignition are working well, and fire them up" then why not give it a shot?

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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-01-2019 at 2:50pm
I agree Dave but since Jeff is close by to someone who is in the know with them it would not hurt to ask. They might tell him don't try starting them without doing x,x and x and might know someone looking to buy unmolested complete units which would maybe help offset new power. Like Bruce I wonder as well why someone would put them in,most with those boats want mileage- it almost like Joe or Tim took up fishing......

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: December-01-2019 at 3:05pm
There are tons for 4.3 V6s out there that's what the rest of the twins had for power. couple thousand you would be like it is supposed to be , Not some JET BOAT engines. Their is nothing cheap about trying to refresh engines that are in there.

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1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee


Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 1:56pm
Is there room for a pair v6 or v8? Looks like the little 70 cubic inch rotarys have it full. I wonder what that think sounded like at top end. Those things will rev. My sister had a rx-7 and one of my good friends had one. He took the little stick off the tach gauge and could wrap the rpms past 9000, all the way around back to 2000. The clutch couldn't hardly grab on to that. The one thing that made those engines strong is that on each rotor, all three sides were doing a different step of combustion at the same time.

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Tim D


Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 2:31pm
There is plenty of room for normal engines. My other twin-engine Fish Nautique has the V6 engines, and I know of another one that has twin 454's.

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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: zwoobah
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 3:50pm
Interesting boat. I think your plan is great - have the rotaries looked over, if they can be gotten running for short money give them a shot. If you ultimately decide to swap in a V6/V8 pair, you can sell the running rotaries.

The rotary engines were always known for poor fuel economy, sensitivity to heat, and some oil consumption. Keep a close eye on your oil levels and temp gauges if you get them running. They ought to sound pretty cool at full blast.

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1968 Mustang 16 - 351W powered


Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by Tim D Tim D wrote:

Is there room for a pair v6 or v8? Looks like the little 70 cubic inch rotarys have it full. I wonder what that think sounded like at top end. Those things will rev. My sister had a rx-7 and one of my good friends had one. He took the little stick off the tach gauge and could wrap the rpms past 9000, all the way around back to 2000. The clutch couldn't hardly grab on to that. The one thing that made those engines strong is that on each rotor, all three sides were doing a different step of combustion at the same time.

Ah the power of the mysterious “3”. “3” and it’s square root is what makes the world go round. Kinda surprised Rotarys didn’t get used much.

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Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation
1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort
1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 4:15pm
A friend with an RX2 put a Holley 4bbl on it, it was really fast but I think he only got about 12 MPG, a car the size of a RX2 with a 4 cyl engine should have produced 30 MPG, this was in the late 70's, maybe 1979. At 12 MPG we could have driven a 350 HP 350 Chevy and had the same mileage and double or triple the torque.

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Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Orlando76 Orlando76 wrote:


Kinda surprised Rotarys didn’t get used much.


Mazda started pushing them hard in their regular cars right when the first gas crises hit. They never recovered the stigma of lousy mileage.Sitting in line for a couple of hours waiting for gas was not fun. That was in the days when a VW Beetle could sometimes luckily hit 25mpg with 50hp.
Mark I was under the impression that the 1970's rotarys had 4bbl from the factory.
The Mrs new car has 350hp and gets 25mpg at 70+. First car in many years that I actually enjoy driving and need no excuse to take a spin

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Orlando76 Orlando76 wrote:

Ah the power of the mysterious “3”. “3” and it’s square root is what makes the world go round. Kinda surprised Rotarys didn’t get used much.

When you look at a cutaway of a rotary engine, and how it runs through the 4 cycle sequence, it's amazing to me that the concept came to somebody and they made it work. It solves much of the stress on a piston engine where the crank is pushing and pulling the piston in opposite directions at high speed, the rotor just turns in one direction all the time.

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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 6:02pm
Gary, I think you are correct about them running a 4bbl but my friend Brian installed a larger Holley to go faster.

Did the Turbo rotaries have better efficiency?
They were small and powerful, I remember seeing an MGB with a rotary engine swap, small size with more power than the original MG 4 cyl engine.

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Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

Gary, I think you are correct about them running a 4bbl but my friend Brian installed a larger Holley to go faster.

Did the Turbo rotaries have better efficiency?
They were small and powerful, I remember seeing an MGB with a rotary engine swap, small size with more power than the original MG 4 cyl engine.

So I was just on Craigslist looking at a 2004 RX8 in great condition for less than a NWZ Ski Nautique costs ($5,995). I shouldn't be allowed on Craigslist. Anyway, then did a bit of reading and the mid '90's RX7 twin turbo put out 255 hp and was still marginal on mpg. The 2004 RX8, non-turbo, put out 250 HP and was rated 18/23 mpg. 159 lb.-ft. and 0-60 in 6.4 sec. I wouldn't call that great mileage for the power output, and also considering it's a small light car, but not awful either. The 0-60 surprised me a bit, thought it was faster than that.

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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique


Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 6:43pm
They consume oil because it is injected in the chamber to keep the seal from drying out. And they will barely run on diesel. Mys sister put diesel in hers back in the 80's when they first started putting the diesel pumps on the side of the gas pump instead of a separate pump off beside kerosene. Man, that thing was smoking and backfiring, but she made it home. The real power plant was the three rotor engine they built for racing.

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Tim D


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 8:54pm
In today's world my 2.0L 4 cyl Ford Fusion with Direct Injection makes 240 HP, it does have a turbo. Has almost all torque available from 1,800 RPM on up. That little 4 cyl pulls the car very well.   Would have plenty of power for a boat but I bet it would cost lots more than a 351W's or 350 Chevy and under full load like it would be exposed to in a boat it would probably not last very long.

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Posted By: NautiqueJeff
Date Posted: December-03-2019 at 6:43pm
Still unsure what the props are on this boat, but they'll certainly have to be swapped out no matter what I do with the engines. They are clearly too close to the hull, and one side has already burned/chipped the gel down to the glass. Can't imagine why anyone would have installed these like this.

Wonder how long that fishing line has been on there...





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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 2000 Sport Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)


Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: December-03-2019 at 6:50pm
I say keep the rotaries. If you can get them to spin up like the video linked above, how cool would that be to scream down the middle of Lake Norman in a Fish Nautique going about 90 mph.

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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?”
“Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.”


Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-19-2019 at 12:44am
So, here's the problem with this %$&*#@ site.

I read about a guy thinking of restoring a Fish with twin rotary engines.
I start discussing why he should keep the rotaries, or at least look into it.
I remember I used to drool over RX-7's.
I go on Craigslist and see a really nice RX-8.
I buy the RX-8.

Yes, pulled the trigger, brought it home Monday. Incredibly fun to drive, not all that fast but handles like crazy and the engine will wind up to the 9,500 rpm redline so quickly as you go through the gears, to my ear a really great sound.

So Jeff, I'm blaming you for this!




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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique


Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-19-2019 at 12:45am
As usual, not sure why the uploaded pictures didn't post.

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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-19-2019 at 8:23am
Dave

Stay away from the thread where there's talk of Pintos and Pacers and Wienermobiles.

Just tryin' to keep you out of trouble


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-19-2019 at 8:57am
Dave needs an intervention!

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: zwoobah
Date Posted: December-19-2019 at 11:49am
Congrats! You're right next to Loudon. Get some good tires, brakes, and brake fluid in the RX8 and then sign up for a student day with COM!


https://www.comscc.org/" rel="nofollow - https://www.comscc.org/

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1968 Mustang 16 - 351W powered


Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-19-2019 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by zwoobah zwoobah wrote:

Congrats! You're right next to Loudon. Get some good tires, brakes, and brake fluid in the RX8 and then sign up for a student day with COM!


https://www.comscc.org/" rel="nofollow - https://www.comscc.org/

I have 2 friends who do the Loudon thing, love it. We were just talking about it a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure it's for me, maybe I'll go with someone else and see if I like it, from what they described it sounded like fun to open up your car and drive fast, but also stressful to deal with the widely different skill levels and performance levels of the cars.

My last manual car that I owned was in the late 1980's, have driven a bunch since but not on a daily basis. I wondered how my left knee would hold up, the clutch isn't all that light, but I'm having too much fun to worry about it! I'm actually going to park it for the most part until spring, if the roads are dry I'll take it out a bit but I'm not buying snows so it won't be used if the roads are even wet.

Strange, I didn't even have the slightest urge to go out and look for a Pacer or Pinto, not even a Gremlin!

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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique


Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: December-19-2019 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Dave needs an intervention!


Dave's a Killer

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt


Posted By: zwoobah
Date Posted: December-19-2019 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

Originally posted by zwoobah zwoobah wrote:

Congrats! You're right next to Loudon. Get some good tires, brakes, and brake fluid in the RX8 and then sign up for a student day with COM!


https://www.comscc.org/" rel="nofollow - https://www.comscc.org/

I have 2 friends who do the Loudon thing, love it. We were just talking about it a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure it's for me, maybe I'll go with someone else and see if I like it, from what they described it sounded like fun to open up your car and drive fast, but also stressful to deal with the widely different skill levels and performance levels of the cars.


If you go, go with a group like COM that provides excellent beginner instruction. An instructor will be in the car with you at all times until you are signed off to drive solo - usually after 3-4 events. You'll only be on track with other new drivers who also have instructors with them, unless you ask to ride shotty in your instructor's car during one of their sessions. They'll put you through a couple classroom technique sessions. It's the best way to learn. Open "test n tune" days are kind of the wild west.
You could also look at autocross events at Loudon. Lower speeds and less risk, but also less driving time.

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1968 Mustang 16 - 351W powered


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-20-2019 at 3:49pm
When that rotary stops working look into the LS swaps that are being done into that car.
An RX with an aluminum LS 5.3L makes for a really powerful car that still handles very well.
They are a fun car, enjoy your new toy!
A buddy of mine signed up for the driving school at Sears Point Raceway, they were driving small open wheel race cars in this class, powered by 4 cylinder Ford engines.
Formula Ford class?   After instruction and the first day on the track, I think this was a 3 day course the instructor was ticked off because the class was not following instructions. Each of the class had recored their best lap times for the day and they were all lousy.
The instructor jumped in his Mitsubishi Montero, a 4wd small SUV, ordered all the class to pack into that car.
With 7 people in the Mitsubishi the instructor went out and raced around the track. He beat the best time recorded by the class that day in the open wheel racer.   My buddy was a passenger, he said the Mitsubishi felt like it was going to roll over on every turn, scared the heck out of him but after the lap the instructor told the class they were slow because they did not listen.
Tomorrow you will listen.   He made his point.   My buddy has progressed since then and now races his 2006 Porsche 911 frequently in club events and has a lot of fun with it.
He still says there are guys in the club that can jump in his car and go much faster around the track than he can. It is a learning curve.

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Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: December-20-2019 at 8:47pm
MrMcD   So proud of you for calling it Sears Point.
I’m went to high school in Napa, racing with dad weekends in 80’s
One of top ten tracks worldwide.
Of course laguna seca edges it out
Merry Christmas


Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-21-2019 at 2:14am
I know, today they call it Infeneon Raceway, Sears Point should always be Sears Point.
Sounds like you had fun back then. I agree, Laguna Seca is a special track.

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Posted By: 67 ski nat
Date Posted: December-21-2019 at 4:30am
NASCAR Corp bought it   Sonoma raceway now   NHRA after dark is amazing there



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