GT-40 Zero oil pressure. Ticking engine. Help!
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48898
Printed Date: April-25-2024 at 4:10am
Topic: GT-40 Zero oil pressure. Ticking engine. Help!
Posted By: camron18
Subject: GT-40 Zero oil pressure. Ticking engine. Help!
Date Posted: June-21-2020 at 1:25pm
|
After running perfectly for about 3 hours and over 10 miles. We were coming out of about a mile long no wake zone and I noticed the oil pressure gage at 0. I always check the gages and the oil pressure And it is always between 20 and 40 temp was always perfect. I shut it down as soon as I saw the gage. I tapped on the gage and the pressure sending unit and fired it up again and noticed a pretty good ticking noise. After checking oil level and a couple other things I started it back up a few times but nothing changed. I brought the engine up above 2000 rpm for less than a min to see if something was stuck but nothing changed. We were 10 miles from our trailer so the sheriff towed us about a mile to the nearest launch we’re a helpful bystander took us back to our truck. First thing I’m going to do is pull the DUI and see if the hex is stripped on the oil pump shaft.. hopefully that’s it. What damage if any have I done to the motor and is there anyway to check?? I’ve read about ticking going away once oil pressure comes back, but have not found a thread where anyone has suddenly lost oil pressure with full oil level. hoping I have not done any more damage. |
Replies:
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: June-21-2020 at 1:45pm
|
Well, that's not good news. Nope. Any guess on how long you were running on zero oil pressure before you shut the engine down? Also, running the engine with zero oil pressure at 2,000 RPMs -- even for less than a minute -- can cause significant damage. The "ticking" sound could be a valve train component. Without a good, constant film of oil on your camshaft, you can destroy a lobe fairly quickly. You may want to pull an oil sample and send it off to a diagnostic lab for oil analysis. The truckers and heavy equipment operators do this regularly to see what's in the oil. Based on the metal content analysis, a good lab can often determine which component group is wearing. It's certainly possible that your oil pump drive shaft failed. You are correct in checking that first. However, an oil pump failure is also possible. In my opinion, a rebuild is in your future... JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-21-2020 at 1:54pm
|
Thanks Jq. DUI end looks fine. But the oil pump shaft hex Looks like it’s off center from the hole it goes through. I will post some pics soon but it’s hard to see. I did drop this motor square on the oil pan when I was doing the stringers 2 winters ago.... wondering if that is catching up to me now.... Looks like I’ll at least be pulling the motor. 
|
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-21-2020 at 1:57pm
|
My guess on how long it was running with no oil pressure is less than 5 min at idle. Seemed like when I noticed the gage I could barely hear a tick and had to turn off the blower to be sure. Then the next couple times I fired it up the ticking was obvious. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-21-2020 at 2:19pm
The hex shaft always looks off center in the hole and it's not centered till you slide the distributor shaft over the hex. It might be hard to visualize, but it's normal for the shaft to flop to one side or another till the distributor shaft is slid over it. You could use a priming tool for the 351 oil pump with a good 120 volt AC drill running in reverse (BACKWARDS) to see if it develops oil pressure. Some people use what's available like a long 1/4 inch drive extension with a 5/16 socket firmly taped or tack welded to it so it can't fall off and go kerplunk into the sump. but there's a certain amount of risk there with it falling off if it's taped and not tack welded. Same routine with a drill turning in reverse (BACKWARDS) You should feel some pretty good resistance if it's pumping oil and you'll see pressure on your gauge if the ignition key is in the RUN position. No resistance and no oil pressure means you've got some engine disassembly in your future. From the sounds of things, your pump died or the pressure relief valve failed though. A mechanical pressure gauge probably wouldn't tell you much, since you have ticking noises that just developed with the loss of pressure indicating that you really did lose pressure.. |
camron18 wrote:Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: June-21-2020 at 5:29pm
|
You have been given great advice. Try the manual spinning of the oil pump drive and see what you get for pressure. I have done this with a speed handle if you don't have a drill handy. You need a 1/2 drive drill, the light duty ones do not have enough power. Follow Ken's advice and at least tape the parts together that you drop down in the engine. When you loose oil pressure the engine can self destruct in as little as 30 seconds so I expect you still had some flow but lost pressure. As Ken already said that points to a stuck oil pressure relief valve. Any small piece of debris in your oil can cause the relief valve to stick. When they stick open you still pump oil but your pressure is lost so maybe the rods and main bearings are still good since they are close to the pump. Sounds like you will be pulling off the oil pan either way soon but your engine may still be OK if you are lucky. ------------- |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: June-21-2020 at 6:20pm
|
KENO’s advice is good. You can spin your oil pump drive by power drill. That will provide a good diagnosis on the oil pump status. Follow the recommendations For securing your tools with tape. I use 3m black duct tape when I prime an engine using this method. Bright side: if you did fry the engine, you can make it bigger, stronger and faster when rebuilding. Easy for me to say, but I’m good at spending your time and money. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-22-2020 at 11:59am
|
Thank a lot guys. I will try to give it a spin with the drill. I am also looking into an oil analysis lab. There are a couple in the area that might be worth it. If I feel resistance on the pump but the pressure relief valve is stuck how will i know if the pump is working properly if the pressure gauge still reads zero? Will I be able to hear oil spraying or can I pull something off to watch the flow of oil? |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: June-22-2020 at 12:25pm
Assuming that your oil pressure sending unit and oil pressure gauge are working, simply turn your key to the "ON" position and spin the oil pump using the drill method described above. If the pump develops pressure, you should see the needle on the gauge move. If you are not certain that one or both are functioning properly, then you need to visually see the oil flowing. One way to do this is to remove a valve cover. If the oil pump is still working and you spin it with the drill, you will see oil flowing from oil ports in the head around the valve train. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-22-2020 at 12:26pm
Get another oil filter and put it on the engine empty, then spin the pump and if there's flow, the filter will have oil in it when you take it off. Less messy this way  |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: June-22-2020 at 12:29pm
|
KENO's way is better. I like the oil filter method. I'm gonna have to remember that one... ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-22-2020 at 12:31pm
|
Cam, Keep in mind the pump runs at 1/2 engine RPM's so don't be afraid of cranking up that drill to max. The typical 1/2" battery drill driver runs at 1800 max. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-23-2020 at 10:30pm
|
So I tried the long 5/16 drive and drill trick. Full speed on just a regular 20v drill there is no resistance at all. A couple times I could hear the oil pump drive shaft pull up a little bit and “Tink”drop back down when I was pulling the socket out. I know This is normal and this meant I was fully engaged on the hex with the socket. Seems like the oil pump is toast. I’ll hopefully drop off an oil sample tomorrow and then I’ll know if it’s going to be a full rebuild time. Sounds like 750 hours “is nothing” to most of you guys... |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-23-2020 at 10:39pm
|
Keep those fingers crossed And............don't buy a high volume oil pump
|
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: June-24-2020 at 12:50am
|
750 hours is nothing, but then again hours don't tell the story. Well maintained since new, 2,000 hours can be "nothing". Poorly maintained, 750 can be a lot of hours. What is your boat, how long have you owned it? Hoping this works out for you and analysis comes back without any major flags. Not trying to do an "I told you so", I realize you are likely beating yourself up right now, but for future reference if you don't have 10 psi oil pressure, get a tow. Even if you suspect it's the gauge or sender, you can't prove that on the water. Hoping this turns out well! ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-24-2020 at 7:07am
|
Uhm, don't wait for oil analysis, just yank it out. If the oil isn't flowing, it's not going to have metallics suspended in it, too chunky. Get it upside down as soon as practical and some rod and main caps off to get some season back. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: June-24-2020 at 3:55pm
|
I agree with GottaSki. The oil analysis will only confirm that the engine is toast. You had too much run-time with zero oil pressure, so you just need to embrace the madness. Start sooner vs later. If it helps, I feel your pain, bro. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: June-24-2020 at 4:10pm
|
If your pump is not picking up any oil your pick up tube has probably come loose. Many engine shops would tack weld the pump to make sure it never came loose. They only took time to tack weld them because they had previous failures. Learned from mistakes method. Pull it, fix it and enjoy the rest of your summer. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-24-2020 at 4:43pm
|
It will be interesting to see if the pickup is damaged from dropping it on its pan in the past. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-25-2020 at 5:30pm
Got the results back! WEAR NOT ALARMING! looks like i got very lucky and just need an oil pump? maybe the pickup fell off? I will be pulling the motor in a couple hours. let me know what you guys think. |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-25-2020 at 5:36pm
| excessive fuel maybe because of idling seems possible as i was coming out of a 5 mile long no wake zone! so i was a idle speed for around 10 miles before this. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: June-25-2020 at 6:03pm
|
A little hard for me to read, any chance you could get a better scan or post a picture? Just a lot of idling shouldn't put unusual amounts of fuel in the oil. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-25-2020 at 6:05pm
|
As been said, in this case oil analysis reports you can reuse the oil, not necessarily reuse the engine.. best look at some bearings when you have it's skirt up. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-25-2020 at 6:10pm
 
|
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-25-2020 at 9:42pm
| Oil pump drive shaft is broke in two just above where it goes into the pump. The pump looks and seems to function fine. |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-25-2020 at 10:57pm
|
If the engine needs to be rebuilt, and I instead risk it and just throw a new oil pump on. How much more damage could I do to the motor than there potentially already is? Could I risk it for the fourth and maybe a few more weekends as long as I stay on small lakes where I know I can get a tow if I need it? For me the risk of putting the motor back in and having to take it out again in a few weeks really is not a big deal as I have access to a Crain at work and I can have it back in and out in a couple hours. I just don’t know if I could mess anything else up while I’m risking it... Maybe there is a few things I could inspect while I have the motor in my barn without getting to deep into the rebuild??? Thanks again guys. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-25-2020 at 11:02pm
|
As long as you'll be into the oil pan, maybe pull a couple caps off the crank and take a look at the bearings. Throw some Plastigauge in and see what's up. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-25-2020 at 11:07pm
|
Cam, Something caused that pump shaft to break. Take a very close look at the pump and look in the pan for any evidence. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-26-2020 at 12:56am
|
Pete I don't think our mikes are on ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-26-2020 at 8:09am
Welcome to the backyard hackers club With you knowing that it may or may not work out for you, I think i'd do just what you're thinking, based on your description of what happened and the short time frame it was running. From your description it didn't start clacking away sounding like an old Singer sewing machine, although the 2000 rpm period of running might be a little worrisome. Check a bearing or 2 to see what they look like if you want. if they look good, then continue on New pump for sure and make sure you get the oil pump driveshaft in with the little retaining clip in the right position (at the end away from the pump), clean the suction line and strainer and slap it back together. I had a somewhat similar situation once with let's call it an "on the fly oil change" due to an oil cooler line break. Fixed the line and finished the oil change, fired it up and it ran good for the next handful of years. Cleaning the bilge out wasn't much fun though. Is it the textbook perfect solution? Hell no, but you'll know pretty quickly if you're gonna be OK. And..............quit calling that engine a gt40 if this is your Hydrodyne. Your old posts say this is a protec converted to a carburetor and DUI distributor Good luck |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-26-2020 at 8:29am
| Okay I didn’t understand what bearings you were mentioning but after watching a couple plastigage videos I can do that |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-27-2020 at 5:17pm
|
The two bearings I pulled looked fine and very smooth. The crank looked perfect, and checking the tolerance with plastigage was perfect at .0015”. I pulled the furthest forward main bearing as well and it was still covered in oil and looked perfect. Torqued everything back down. New oil pump arrived today shaft should be here tomorrow. I will slap the pump and shaft on and throw it back in for the fourth! My guess is that a small piece of oil pan gasket silicone got sucked into the pump? I was in a hurry last year putting the oil pan on... Posts with gt-40 in the title get more responses..
|
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-30-2020 at 11:28am
|
Dropped the engine back in last night. Confirmed good oil pressure with a drill before hooking everything back up. Went to try to start it up and when i turned the key i get nothing. No click no nothing. messed with the solenoid for a while. i have 12V at the starter but i didn't have anyone to turn the key for me while i checked the other wire to the starter. Im going to scrub all the grounds and the battery terminals, and try a different battery, but if I had at least a "Click" i would have somewhere to start. Does anyone have an suggestions on what to check with no click? would this suggest the ignition? or ground? Thanks |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-30-2020 at 11:31am
| Is the transmission in (clean) neutral? Sounds like a NSS issue. |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: June-30-2020 at 11:36am
|
I disconnected the trans cable and made sure it was in neutral. I will try to just jump the NSS to see if that is the issue. Thanks |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: June-30-2020 at 1:48pm
|
I'm assuming with key on you got normal dash power, gas gauge reading, etc.? Doubt the battery is the problem, or the connections, since you were running right until you lost oil pressure and connections are new since you reinstalled the engine. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: July-01-2020 at 7:14pm
|
This is getting very frustrating... I have 12.7 volts at the battery cables at the back of the engine as soon as I mount the ground to the bell housing I loose my 12.7v but the gages are on. Is there a ground wire that goes somewhere else? I have one for the battery cable one on the male side of the wiring harnesses one on the female side and one that I cut and wire nutted with the dui swap. |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: July-01-2020 at 7:19pm
| I just got the starter to turn by jumping from the battery/big wire to the starter post to the little wire to the starter post |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-01-2020 at 8:50pm
|
Cameron, How about some better terminology instead of "big wire" and "little wire" Here's some help:  Also, how clean are your battery posts/cable terminals? Are you using a battery terminal post wire brush type cleaner? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-01-2020 at 11:00pm
|
Have you checked the main breaker? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-01-2020 at 11:24pm
|
Since this is a Hydrodyne that had the ProTec system originally and you converted it, the drawing above may or may not be very accurate for your boat. Sounds like one of those situations where you need to be there in person to figure things out
|
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: July-02-2020 at 12:11am
| It’s the breaker! I jumped the breaker and turned the key and the starter turned! Can I find a replacement for this breaker locally??? |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: July-02-2020 at 12:14am
| Seems like I could just find a 30 amp breaker and wire the a side to one end and the dash feed and alternator output to the other?? |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: July-02-2020 at 12:19am
|
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/automotive-rv-and-marine/recreational-vehicle-parts-and-accessories/rv-electrical-equipment/85765?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkuWftcCt6gIVhsDACh21ywvREAQYASABEgKxgPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Would this work? |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-02-2020 at 12:50am
|
You talking about one of these? https://www.bluesea.com/products/2140/Medium_Duty_Push_Button_Reset_Only_Circuit_Breaker_-_30A" rel="nofollow - link ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-02-2020 at 8:18am
If you have the main breaker open/tripped and have power to your gauges like you say, then you have some wiring issues somewhere. With the engine OFF and the main breaker open you shouldn't have power to anything at the dash The starter and the solenoid on the back of the engine would have power and like you mentioned you could jumper the wires at the solenoid and the starter would turn over, but you'd have no power to the coil to make the engine run. That would be your "big wire" and "little wire" you mentioned. But.......if jumpering around the breaker gets you going, putting a new breaker in will work and you could figure out the other issues later since you probably had them before Here's an original ProTec wiring diagram with a 50 amp main breaker so if you were to find a 40 or 50 amp breaker to replace yours with you should be good to go The 30 amp you linked above would work. It may not be "marine rated" for spark protection though. 
|
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: July-02-2020 at 6:28pm
|
So now I’m trying to set the timing... as soon as I let off the key the boat dies... snore wiring issues... if someone wants to give me a call and chat about wiring I would love some help as I’m running out of patience... 616 634 7368 Maybe it’s the ignition switch??? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-02-2020 at 6:37pm
What's the VOM (volt Ohm meter) telling you? Volts to the coil when the switch is in the run position? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: July-02-2020 at 7:59pm
| New ignition switch now in... sorry Pete. Same thing. I’ve reset the timing 10 times now with no change. It runs as long as I hold the key to start, even if I give it more gas, as soon as I let off the key it dies, I have 12v to the coil on the dui. With the key on. |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: July-02-2020 at 11:53pm
I seem to recall hearing about this issue that related to the safety lanyard. Maybe bypass it to rule it out. |
Posted By: camron18
Date Posted: July-03-2020 at 2:13am
|
So I finally got the timing right and it started and ran with no problem, but then I went to shut it off and I couldn’t get it to stop! I ended up pulling the spark plug wires off quickly because I was almost out of water in my bucket! I finally found the battery cable at the solenoid was touching the “I” terminal that supply’s the voltage to the distributor. So after a bunch of messing around I was finally able to set the timing. I have no ticking and good oil pressure! We will see how the weekend goes! Big thanks to Ken and Rob for giving me a call and helping me get the the bottom of these wiring issues! It was one thing after another with this one but I think we are good to go. Thanks guys! |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: July-03-2020 at 1:47pm
| Best possible ending. This is what makes CCF So unique. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-03-2020 at 1:54pm
|
Nice work, Congratulations on your win! And no engine damage is huge. Mark ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-03-2020 at 2:03pm
 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: July-05-2020 at 3:09am
|
Well done, lad. You dodged a HUGE bullet. Go out and buy a lottery ticket. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-05-2020 at 7:31am
|
I want to say good job too, but I think I'll wait until Cam posts here that the boat is running well under load in the water
|