White steam / smoke
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7364
Printed Date: April-27-2024 at 1:14pm
Topic: White steam / smoke
Posted By: bwill14
Subject: White steam / smoke
Date Posted: July-05-2007 at 5:24pm
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Have about 25 hours on a rebuilt engine. Whenever I take off, I get some white steam or smoke from the exhaust for a few seconds. If I am going quick, it will continue, but smaller amount. Yesterday, it seemed to be just a little more then usual.
I have read in other posts that this is water related. Manifolds and risers are new with the rebuild. Engine temp never gets over 160, but risers can get hot (wouldn't want to keep my hand on there for real long). Does the steam / smoke mean water mixing with exhaust too soon (leak somewhere)? Could I not be drawing enough water - enough to keep engine temp OK, but not enough for manifolds and risers - thus normal water in manifolds and risers is creating this steam. Just in case it matters: Engine seems to run fine. Does not have mufflers. Thanks all! ------------- Brent |
Replies:
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: July-05-2007 at 9:04pm
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You should be able to lay your face on any part of that engine,exhaust cool to the touch.Riser gaskets wrong type,what brand are they.Raw water pump low on output pressure,or restricted flow to 1" elbows on exhaust. sumpthin' ain't right.......boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-05-2007 at 9:08pm
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I don't think you have anything to worry about. It is normal for some steam to come out of the exhaust with the water. Your temp gauge reads average temperature. There are pockets in the cooling systems (mainly in the heads) where temps will get hotter than the temp gauge is reading. Also, water does not have to reach 212 deg F before it starts to evaporate. 212 degrees is the boiling point (at sea level). Steam can be produced by water evaporating from the road or your driveway on a sunny day.
You stated that your engine is running fine, right? If it makes you feel better, you can unbolt your manifolds from the heads and look for water trails (rust) in the exhaust ports. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-05-2007 at 9:32pm
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My question is are the gaskets between the riser and manifolds right. The gasket should have had three openings maybe 5 if the two side ones where split but the port/water pasage towards the front of the riser and manifold should have been blocked off, if it is blocking the rear or no ports at all then that is what is causing your problem with the hot risers. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-05-2007 at 9:37pm
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boat dr- what sealer, if any...do you like for riser gaskets? pcm 454 and sorry to interupt...thanks ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-05-2007 at 9:42pm
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Doc, I was posting my reply above at the same time you were posting yours. Looks like we disagree a bit here. Maybe where we live could be a factor in your different view points. I'm in Phoenix, Arizona. Tuesday it was 114 deg here. At that time my boat hadn't been in the water and running for the past 48 hours. The engine was hot to the touch just from the heat from the sun. It does not overheat and hasn't had any temp related problems since I've owned it. What is the water temp where you live? I've spent most of my life in southern states and all three of my inboard boat's manifolds where warm to the touch after the engine was ran for a while under load. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: July-05-2007 at 10:40pm
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Nutty, there should be no steam or water vapor coming from the exhaust, period.That water, dumped from the cooling system should only be 160 degrees, or whatever thermostat is in the block,i suggest a 140.
Don't matter where you are and how hot the outside temp is, the riser should be COOL TO THE TOUCH,if yours are not you have issue also. boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-05-2007 at 10:59pm
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I'm with Doc and unless you have the motor box up to heat up the cast iron then you should be able to place your hand on the riser at any time might be a little warm to touch but not so much that you could not leave you and there all day long without any discomfort. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 12:30am
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79, yes the motor box was up, my engine is painted black and the sun was high in the sky at this time. My engine was hot without having even ran that day. But I still don't think that there is a problem because I or bwill can't hold our hands on our manifolds all day. I'll agree that at idle and under light loads that they will be cool to the touch (and mine are). But under loads, everything including the manifolds will heat up. Water circulating in the block is kept in the block until the thermostat opens. If the water is 160 deg coming out of the engine and mixed with hot exhaust from the riser, I would think that the riser could reach hot enough temps to feel uncomfortable at times.
Think about this,....how hot is your water heater in your house set to. I bet it's not over 140. Can you take a shower with your water set all the way to the HOT setting? Also, next time you pour yourself a cup of coffee, look at the steam that emits from the cup. I'll bet that's no more than 160 degrees either. Just a few thoughts! Brian ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 12:32am
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79 - I know what you are talking about with the manifold/riser gaskets. The engine rebuild shop put them back on, so I will check that to verify they are on correctly.
Doc - No way I could keep my hand on there for long. I believe the risers and manifolds were PCM OEM. I got them from JA Chamberlain here in FL. What tests can I do to check for raw water flow: maybe right out of the raw water pump and/or the manifold elbow? Thanks for the help. ------------- Brent |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 12:41am
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bwill, disconnect the outlet from your raw water pump and let it run into a 5 gallon bucket while your boat is in the water. Only run the engine for a few seconds. In 20 seconds or less the bucket should be full. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 12:48am
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Here's another thing you can do,... pull the plugs from the rear of the manifolds (one at a time) just below the risers. Screw in a pipe fitting with a 1" hose fitting and a piece of hose attached. Run that into a bucket while running. You should get roughly 1/2 of the amount of water than in the test above. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 1:13am
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Nutty,
Are both of those tests at idle? Thanks ------------- Brent |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 2:41am
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nutty, you must have a different riser set up than me. The exhaust does not mix with coolant water till the neck on my risers.If you have ever looked inside the riser you will see how the system works,water and exhaust are mixedjust before the area that the hose slips on to.
The purpose is that no water can flow backwards into the exhaust system. Therefore the heat or lack of that you fell in the riser crown is only coolant and not exhaust. My heater is set at 120, and my exhaust dont blow steam.bwill clearly says he cannot hold his hand on the riser,this tells me he has a problem with the cooling of the riser, This could be as simple as a gasket.But with the advice you are giving I would be suspect that it is correct. Just because you don't think yours is too hot don't add to his misunderstanding with your inability to realize you may have a problem too. ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 7:16am
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Doc, I'm trying to take a logical approach to bwill's issue. To quote him he said "Engine temp never gets over 160, but risers can get hot (wouldn't want to keep my hand on there for real long)." I took that as him saying that he CAN touch the manifold but wouldn't want to hold his hand on it for a very long time. This to me doesn't sound like it's that hot. So maybe there's a difference in the way we two are interpreting what he is saying.
My current boat is a 95 Malibu with a 350 Magnum Mercruiser. Yes the manifolds on this boat are quite a bit different than the PCM ones. However, my last boat (88 Ski Centurion) used the same type manifolds as the late 80's PCMs. When I first bought this boat I pulled the manifolds and cleaned them up and pressure tested them then replaced the riser gaskets. I have looked inside the risers and I know how they work. Water from the cooling system flows through the outside passages to keep them cooled. However, the manifolds and risers are made of cast iron which conducts heat (from the heads and exhaust). So you can't expect them to always stay as cool as the water that is flowing through them. One more point about steam,.... if water can come out of the facet at 140 degrees with a little steam in its presence, why can't it come out of your boats exhaust at 160 degrees with a little steam? ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 7:22am
Bwill, this amount of water is with the pump turning at approximately 2500 RPM. Do you know the condition of your raw water pump? New impeller? If you find that your impeller is missing any blade material, chase the hose going to the thermostat and find the missing pieces. Get them out of your cooling system. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
bwill14 wrote:Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 12:37pm
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Thanks Nutty,
Will perform those tests this weekend. I replace the impeller this spring. The one I took out was completely in tact (in pretty good shape). The pump itself, I don't know. Trying to think through logically, if the pump takes longer then 20 seconds to fill the 5 gallon bucket, then pull the water intake line off the pump side of the trans oil cooler and test again emtying the bucket to pin point the raw water pump or a restriction before that point? ------------- Brent |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 1:05pm
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Sounds like you understand. Let us know what you find if anything. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 8:08pm
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Filled the 5 gallon bucket in 21 seconds from the raw water pump (took hose from there off therm housing). Didn't have an extra pipe fitting for the back side of the manifold, so I took the hose off the 90 degree inlet of the manifold (drivers side) and tested. In 20 seconds the bucket was not half full, but more then 1/3. Both tests done at 2500 rpm.
What do you think? ------------- Brent |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 9:53pm
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If your gaskets are installed correctly between the manifolds and the risers like Doc suggested in an earlier post I believe you are okay based on the information you gave me above. After you get your boat in the water and run it (at moderate speeds) for a little while, leave the engine running at idle for a minute or two and then put your hand on the riser. See how long it takes before you have to pull your hand away. Time this and tell me how long. Of course this is no scientific test, but I'm just curious. I'm going to do the same with mine. Get back to this thread with your results and happy boating! Brian ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: Mark Mel
Date Posted: July-09-2007 at 4:48pm
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Do you get smoke/steam all the time? It could be weather related. I had steam/smoke last Friday. I thought I had an issue but then I looked at the all of the other boats, they had more smoke/steam than normal.
It had just rained/thunderstormed and there was fog coming off the ground as well. I think certain combinations of humidity/water temp and air temp can cause this. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=972&sort=&pagenum=4&yrstart=1976&yrend=1980" rel="nofollow - 1978 Nautique FBook - www.facebook.com/charliedontsurfct |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-09-2007 at 7:14pm
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Mark,
I do it get it consistently, when really taking off or near full throttle. It is low 90s everyday here now and pretty humid. Although I noticed the steam/smoke on one other Mastercraft this weekend, I don't see it on others. Nutty, I live on a canal. We went out wakeboarding for a while today. Came back down the canal at idle for a couple minutes. Opened the cover with the boat still at idle. Could only keep my hand on the top of the riser for 2-3 seconds. It felt pretty hot. Engine temp gauge said 150. Just trying to think of anything else that could matter: -I installed the electronic ignition from skidim over the winter, but did not put a new cap or wires on. -Even when warm, if I turn the boat off (to swap skiers, etc) and then restart, I have to usually give it a little throttle. Without it, it will kick, but more time then not, will not start. A little throttle and it fires right up. These probably don't matter with my steam/smoke issue, but just thought I would mention in case. Thanks, Brent ------------- Brent |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: July-09-2007 at 8:10pm
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Are you sure there isn't any impellor blades stuck in the manifolds? I drilled an 1/8" weep hole in my thermostat and mine stays on 140 all day, any speed. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-09-2007 at 8:18pm
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Tim,
The manifolds and risers were new with the rebuild. Have not had any impeller issues since then. Plus, it would be both of them. I checked the gasket between riser and manifold visually. The tab that sticks out is on the back side. Looked on Skidim and that would put the blocked part of the gasket on the front side above the water in line. Any thoughts? ------------- Brent |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-09-2007 at 11:47pm
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one of the best investments a boat owner can make is a handheld digital laser pointer thermometer, i use it for troubleshooting many different things, as in this case you could monitor the temps with pin point accuracy, I pick out dead cylinders with it, you could watch your stuffing box, i also use it for bearings on the test stand, you could easily check your hubs on your trailer.
Once you have one you will figure out the thousands of uses for it. you also could walk by the bedroom and point the laser at the wife to she if she"s ready JK... they are nice to have and i use mine daily, today i checked to see if a catalytic converter was clogged eric ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: marks
Date Posted: July-10-2007 at 11:53am
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Brent,
I think you may have the gaskets in backwards. According to skidim's description, the blocked port goes towards the exhaust outlet. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: July-10-2007 at 12:25pm
1) set initial timing 9-10 degrees BTDC. 2) Set air screws to best idle in forward gear. you need this load to applied to set these right else you else up too lean at idle to even restart. You will realize hands-off starts and your off-idle throttle responce should also improve. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-10-2007 at 1:47pm
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Marks,
I think you are right. Somehow, I had in my mind that the blocked port is in the front. I will fix it tonight and see if that solves. GottaSki, I have never set timing before, but would love to know how to do it. I have wanted to post my restart issue, but can already see 79's post about not messing with the carb adjustments until timing is set. How hard is setting the timing? Thanks, Brent ------------- Brent |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-10-2007 at 1:50pm
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I just wanted to add to the above post that the engine shop did set the timing when it was rebuilt. After reading my post, I wanted to make sure it did not imply that timing was never done at all. ------------- Brent |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-10-2007 at 7:12pm
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Bwill, just got back from Rocky Point in Mexico. From your post above I must agree with the post from the more senior members concerning your riser temps. If 2-3 secs is as long as you can hold your hand on the riser, that does sound too hot. Especially since you just idled through your canal for a couple mins. From your water flow tests, it sounds as though everything is okay with your pump. Double check the gaskets and reply back. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-10-2007 at 8:49pm
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Nutty,
Thanks for catching up. I think I may have it. Somehow I had in my mind that the blocked section of gasket between the riser and manifold went in the front (water inlet side). It appears I had that backwards. Hope to get them turned around tonight. Will keep you posted. ------------- Brent |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-10-2007 at 10:38pm
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the riser gasket blocks off the front passage not the rear passage or the two side passages. If it is blocking the rear passage then all of the water almost instantly goes out the riser and does not circulate in the manifolds. Call Vince and double check me but I'm almost 99% sure that's the way it should be. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-10-2007 at 10:41pm
it will need to be reset as the motor and timing chain break in it will move on you and at least needs double checked to make sure it hasn't changed any. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-11-2007 at 3:02am
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79,
That is what I thought also. When Marks said that, I checked Skidim's website. It says: "GSKT EXHAUST RISER PCM FORD AND PCM GM SMALL BLOCKS The blocked water passage goes towards the exhaust outlet. Same Gasket 3" and 3.5" Risers." I'll call Vince in the morning to make sure. Had to order 2 new ones from them tonight anyway. Took the risers off tonight, but no way to save the gasgets. ------------- Brent |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-11-2007 at 12:37pm
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Just talked to Richard from Skidim. He confirmed that the gasket blocks the back (exhaust outlet) side. He did go on to say the V drives and closed cooling systems are different, but it always goes to the exhaust outlet side.
Will put them on correctly as mine were backwards. Hopefully this clears up the steam issue. ------------- Brent |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: July-14-2007 at 2:18pm
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Put the new riser gaskets on with the exhaust outlet side (back) blocked. It was better. Still got some steam / smoke at full throttle, but not much. Did not have any when accelerating. Definitely better.
Came back down the canal (couple minutes at idle). Risers were not as hot as before, but still hot. Could hold hand on there for a few seconds, maybe 10, but not indefinitely. My raw water pump test results from a few days ago were: With boat in the water, hose from top of raw water pump filled a 5 gallon bucket at 2500 rpm in 21 seconds. Hose going into driver's side manifold filled just under half of the 5 gallong bucket in 20 seconds. Manifolds and risers are new. Any thoughts. ------------- Brent |
Posted By: The Dude
Date Posted: July-14-2007 at 4:45pm
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Now I'm confused. The blocked portion of the gasket goes toward the stern or bow of the boat? I'm sure mine are blocking the stern side. Richard and skidim.com say to put them on that way, but 79 is rarely wrong.
I've got the same issues as above. My risers aren't super hot but I wouldn't leave my hands on them for more than 10 seconds. Also, at idle, my temp rises to about 155 (140 thermostat). Steam comes out regularly. I guess I'll start all the testing. crap. ------------- Mullet Free since 93 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=717&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 95 Sport |
Posted By: The Dude
Date Posted: July-15-2007 at 2:25am
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Went out today and checked temp of risers. I can't leave my hand on them for 5 seconds. Did some of the above prescribed work today.
1. checked water pump flow. ok 2. chased all hoses from water pump through thermostat to manifolds. ok I've never burned up an impeller since I've owned the boat. Now I'm wondering if the PO did and there are pieces in the manifold or something. What do you suggest next? I guess checking to see if the riser gasket is turned the wrong way, but I'm nearly certain it's turned so the blocked portion is toward the stern...I remember following skidim instructions when I changed them. This is starting to bug me and I didn't even know it's a problem. I did notice that there was steam coming through many, many boats' exhaust tonight though. Does humidity matter? We have steam coming off our grass most summer mornings here... Either way, according to you guys, my risers are way too hot. ------------- Mullet Free since 93 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=717&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 95 Sport |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 12:08am
| I have a similar problem with the boat I just bought. Did any of you guys ever come up with solutions? This thread seemed to just stop. |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 2:47pm
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Azeus17,
I don't think I ever solved anything on mine. I still have a steam issue. I don't think mine is just weather or climate related, as it does it when it is hot or cold, wet or dry outside. We pulled the boat to Lake Lanier in GA this summer and it even did it there. While the steam is there most of the time at acceleration, I don't seem to have any other problems. Boat runs pretty good and temp gauge stays from 150 - 165. We are just using it as is. Over the winter, I may swap out the raw water pump and hoses from the intake to the pump. Have you run the raw water pump test? That can show you a lot. ------------- Brent |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 3:51pm
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No. After reading the thread last night, I am going to try it tonight after work. I am confined to working on the boat in the day light as I have no garage or lights of any sort other that flashlights.
I also have to pull all the hoses downstream from the impeller to see if I can find anything. As with you, my temp will hold steady at idle, but after a high speed run it is hot enough that I can not leave my hand on more than a few seconds. The gasket issue also cought my attention. Where do you find diagrams on skidim.com for the way they are supposed to be. I have not pulled the manifolds yet to see what they look like inside, but it would be helpful to have that info when I do. Thanks, Adam ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 4:01pm
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Another thought, and I know the weather conditions have been discussed, but the water temp where I am running is nearly 90. At that temp, can I still expect the engine temp to stay right near 160? I even put a 140 tstat in, but the temp still hovers just north of 160 when at idle and lower RPM's and goes up to about 190-200 after a high speed run and then drops back down. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 4:20pm
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azeus17, Water temp makes no difference,Thermostat opens at 140 to expell the hot water, as cooler water reaches the "PILL" thermostat closes till block water is once again 140 and it cycles again.
If temp continues to climb it is because you are making more heat than the cooling system can remove, it is a simple process. There is a number of variables that will cause this; Restriction in raw water in: Stopped up tranny cooler Bad circulating pump Restiction in discharge from raw water pump 1 impeller blades 2 bad hoses 3sediment of rust Leaking head gaskets Raw water pump sucking air at the seal,low flow. Temp should remain at thermostat temp regardless of load........boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 6:55pm
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 7:04pm
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Mr. Bragg,nowhere in the post do I refer to the steam or water vapor from the exhaust.
This post was about the TEMPS he is reading after the 140 install, North of 160@ idle 190 to 200 after WOT This ain't right.........boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 8:16pm
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Boat doc,
I started another thread about an overheating problem I am having, but have been watching this thread too. I have overheated twice in the past month, first time temp gauge went up, second time it didnt. Ran boat several hours between the two incidents and it was fine. I noted what you said about leaking RWP. I replaced my impellor this spring(Chev 305 w/OMC conv - big impellor-big fins) I had to fashion my own new gasket. It drips ever so slightly with garden hose hook up. Drip goes away when engine is running. Since the overheating just started this year (after the pump servicing) could that ever so slight a leak be indicative of enough air getting in to cause a problem. Note: I ran over 20 hours this year before the problem showed up. If you have a moment, look at my "overheating" thread that has some more detail. I'd appreciate your input. Thanks, Larry ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 10:50pm
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 11:05pm
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75, if it leaks under pressure...it'll leak under vaccuum(sp?) ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: August-29-2007 at 11:46pm
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All the hoses on my 351 are pretty old, but when I took them off they looked clear. Nothing blocking flow. I will probably replace them anyway. (Frayed/cracked ends) I should be able to do the pump tests this weekend.
I was reading on Skidim, to test the circulating pump you screw a barb into the engine block drain hole. Can anyone tell me where this drain is located? It was getting kind of dark when I was searching around so I could have missed it, but I could not find it. Also, is there a way to test the trans cooler to see if it is blocked? I suppose that is accomplished with the 5 gallon bucket impeller test. I removed the hose going into the cooler and I could see some kind of grate with holes in it, but no sure if that means it is clear. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am leaving for a boat trip 9/9 and would really like to get this taken care of before then. Thanks everyone, Adam ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: August-30-2007 at 2:11am
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This is incorrect ,an impeller type pump would rather suck air than water, and a small air leak at the seal will cause a substantial loss in cooling flow,causing an overheating situation.
The same pump will most likely exhibit no external leaks nor any visible symptoms as to the integrity of the seal.....boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: August-30-2007 at 10:55pm
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So I did the RWP test and it filled the bucket in 15-20 sec. So that rules out anything before the pump, right? Including a blockage in the tranny cooler? I also tested the circ pump by screwing in a hose barb in the block drain plugs and it shot a lot of water out, so I don't think the circ pump is bad.
The risers were staying very cool, although I did not even pull the boat off the trailer, even though the temp was reading 160. How hot should the block get? I know Boat Dr says you should be able to lay your face on any part of the engine. I assume that means the block too. The risers were cool, but the block I could not keep my hand on for more than 5 seconds. Do I have a blockage inside the block somewhere? Is there a way to reverse the flow and blow out any crap that might be built up? Oh yeah, the PO ran on the inner-coastal and by the looks of things was not the best at flushing out. The pipe that goes from tstat housing to circ pump is VERY flaky w/ rust. Sorry about the long post, but I really need to get this figured out fast. Thanks in advace guys. Adam ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: August-30-2007 at 11:18pm
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The block and the risers are cooled by the same water,both should be the same temp. Have seen cases or "insulation" from silt & sediment collecting at the rear of the block restricting or stopping water flow around the cyls.
Would not be hard to check, remove a "FREEZE PLUG" on each bank at the rear and look. I know this sounds like a long shot, but stranger things have happened....boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: August-30-2007 at 11:31pm
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at this point I will try anything.
Thanks ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-31-2007 at 10:31am
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FREEZE PLUG? is that a hidden message? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: September-01-2007 at 1:18am
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eric; you use that point and test thing on Mrs. Lavine every day? Wow.... you are my new hero.
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: September-02-2007 at 7:09pm
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Well, took her out again today and I have mixed emotions. On one hand the temp gauge read 160-180 the whole time. On the other hand the block and oil pan and valve covers were hot as hell. Not sure exactly the temp ( I have the IR thermometer OTW, bought on line). I am still getting some white smoke out the exhaust. Here is what I have done so far:
tstat Impeller temp sending unit RWP test-fine Circ pump test-fine cleaned strainer I have all new hoses on the way from DIM and tomorrow I am going to take the tstat out all together and see what happens. I am still thinking that there is a clog somewhere in the cooling lines in the block. I don't know enough about the route they take though. Anyone have an idea where they might bottle neck and allow a build up? I have an idea to unclog whatever might be there. Can anyone tell me if I can do this without harming the motor. If it screw a fitting into the block drain and attach the hose to it and take the inlet hose off the circ pump and try to reverse the water flow. Has anyone tried it or know if it would harm in any way. i.e.- water in the cylindars??? Maybe everything is fine. Vince at DIM seemed to think that if I have good flow everywhere, it should be fine. All I read on this site, though, is that engine should be cool enough to lay your hand anywhere. HELP!!!! ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: September-05-2007 at 7:34pm
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Azeus17,
It sounds very similar to mine. My temp gage stays around 160, never goes over 180. Raw water pump seemed fine. Yet, white smoke / steam continues and risers get pretty warm. Couldn't keep my hand on there for more then 7 - 10 seconds after running for a while. Keep me posted if you find out anything new. ------------- Brent |
Posted By: marks
Date Posted: September-06-2007 at 12:59pm
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Azeus17,
"All I read on this site, though, is that engine should be cool enough to lay your hand anywhere." This statement is not completely correct. Since you have a 140 degree thermostat, this means the water in the block will be regulated to a temperature of around 140 degrees. To put this in perspective, most home hot water heaters are set for 130 degrees. 140 degrees is considered scalding hot. This doesn't necessarily mean that the entire engine will be 140 degrees. The bottom of the exhaust manifolds, where they attach to the heads, does not have a water jacket. This area gets very hot. Also, since these engines do not have oil cooling systems, the oil temperature may be 10 to 20 degrees higher than the water temperature, meaning the oil pan may be hotter than 140. The exhaust risers are not subject to the thermostat. All excess water from the raw water pump is dumped into them along with the output water from the block. As others have said, the exhaust risers should be cool enough to touch all day long. If they are running too hot to touch, it is usually a sign that the raw water pump is not keeping up. One other note. 160 degree thermostats are common in the PCM 351. Are you sure yours is 140? You may have ordered a 140 degree but received a 160 degree. You might want to consider testing it. Hope this helps, Mark |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-06-2007 at 1:12pm
This has been mentioned before, but the 143 'stat seems to be recommended for the 351w. Thats what I run in my boat, and my temp stays between 150 and 170 (but usually reads 160). My aluminum valvecovers get extremely hot and I almost always get a fair amount of steam at WOT. I consider that to be normal. ------------- |
Posted By: marks
Date Posted: September-06-2007 at 1:43pm
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Tim,
I get some steam too in my 89. Some days more than others. Temperature and humidity must come into play. We are mixing water with very hot exhaust gas. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: September-06-2007 at 2:17pm
Not entirely, I believe 143 is for the salt water, raw water cooled engines. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-06-2007 at 2:27pm
Not according to SkiDIM. White Lake's site says the 160 is for the 1994+ 351w's with EFI. ------------- |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: September-06-2007 at 2:37pm
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I think that Gottaski is right. There was a heavily debated post awhile back that finally came down to that electrolisis on salt water raw cooled engines is much lower if you use the 143 stat.
That is if my memory serves me right. I'm 50 now so that part of my body is definitely starting to go. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-06-2007 at 3:48pm
That could very well be true. I can tell you for certain that both SkiDIM and White Lake both told me that the 143 is the correct 'stat for my carb'd 351w. In the discussions here, the 143 allows the motor to run around 160, where the 160 'stat keeps the motor closer to 180. ------------- |
Posted By: marks
Date Posted: September-06-2007 at 9:58pm
It wasn't my intent to revive the 143 verses 160 thermostat discussion
I was just trying to get the point across to Azeus17 that, contrary to other posts, the engine is hot to the touch and some parts are hotter than others. |
Posted By: ecproductions
Date Posted: September-06-2007 at 10:31pm
| I have a 1980 MC I run at 140-160 depending on water temp and if i hit it hard for a mile or so when I come to a stop I notice the engine temp will rise to 180 but start to decrease. I have a neovane water pump thats seems to pump water good but maybe not good enough Boat has been like this or 5 years and no problems |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: September-07-2007 at 11:56am
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I do have a 143 stat. And I do run is brackish water, if that does make a difference. My temp stays right around 160. I took the stat out altogether and the temp was at about 140 at about 30 MPH and then would rise up and fall back down after I stoped. I tested the stat and it did open right near 140. When conducting the test, I poked my finger in the water and realized very quickly that even at 140 I could not keep it in there at all. I made the assumption that if 140 water will burn me than 140 steel would too. As I said, I have ordered the IR thermometer, should be here today and then I will be able to get a very accurate reading of what it really is. My VC's also get very hot along with the oil pan, but as was stated before, I think that is normal. Boat is running great, besides the white smoke I am still getting at higher RPM's. I am just going to keep an eye on the oil level for now.
I will post temps I get from the IR next week. Thanks for everyones help. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: JR_VIC
Date Posted: September-21-2007 at 2:30am
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If I am working on my boat at night while running on the trailer hooked up to the fake a lake it has always been a steam machine. Since brand new it has always had a little steam coming out of the exhaust once up on plane even in the summer but slightly more steam in the cool months.
Thanks! ------------- "That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!" |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: September-21-2007 at 11:54am
As I've mentioned before, as a part of just plain goodwill maintenance I put three different 160 degree stats in that motor and every one of them had the boat at exactly 180 degrees at idle in the driveway. I was so puzzled that I just put the old stat back in there, so I can tell you for SURE that the 160 stat puts you at 180, guaranteed. End of discussion! ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: Messer
Date Posted: October-17-2007 at 2:08am
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I understand the temp sending units are different in the i/b vessels...how about the guage in the dash? If you use an off the shelf guage from an auto parts store, does the guage read the boat temp sending unit the same? Will 140 degrees at the sending unit be 140 degrees on the dash?
azeus- how did the IR teser work? Can you post the specs on it? Where to buy/cost? ------------- Johnnie 1987 Ski Nautique 1981 Fish Nautique 1980 Fish Nautique 1979 Fish Nautique 1986 Master Craft 1984 American Skier |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: October-17-2007 at 3:37am
no they are not the same ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: October-20-2007 at 11:18pm
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The unit I bought was on a computer parts website. Can't remember the name now, but it was only $20. Obviously not the best on the market, but I didn't want to drop $100 bucks. It claims to be accurate within 2%. As it turns out, when my block and oil pan were too hot to touch, IR read 125-150. My gauge is reading around 140-160 with a 143 stat in. The IR just gave me a little piece of mind. Oh yeah, you must be within 1 inch of the surface you are trying to read, but on our rigs that is no problem. The more expensive ones have a longer range, but again, to me not worth $100 bucks. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Messer
Date Posted: October-22-2007 at 1:34am
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QUOTE]
no they are not the same [/QUOTE] 79, in your opinion if my "auto parts store guage" reads consistant 190, fluctuating slightly on loads (142 stat, sending unit from PCM) how far off do you think it is? Do you recommend any specifc brand guages. Thanks for all! ------------- Johnnie 1987 Ski Nautique 1981 Fish Nautique 1980 Fish Nautique 1979 Fish Nautique 1986 Master Craft 1984 American Skier |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: October-30-2007 at 1:33am
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What a long thread. I thought they all steamed. My '68 puts out more steam than a Stanley Steamer. My S.O. hangs drapes behind the boat to rid them of wrinkles. If I didn't have steam coming out of the exhausts I'd have nothing at all coming out. If it wasn't for the steam my neighbors wouldn't know it was my boat in the water and they wouldn't be able to see me coming. You guys are giving me too much to worry about so pardon me if I ignore this whole thread including the laser powered sex machine thing which I have not yet found out anything by my relentless searching on the internet. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: October-30-2007 at 3:39pm
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A 68 interceptor is going to steam more than the later cooling setups in my experience. The newer setups have more bypass which keeps the motor more uniform in temp and has plenty of cooling water going to the manifolds. The logs on the 68 are also more prone to air spots on the top than the pcm style manifolds so anyway in my experience it is different and I wouldn't sweat it.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-30-2007 at 3:43pm
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fwiw, you may see steam on the thinner manifolds if you run them, on alot of the stainless exhausts i see, my boat included has a tendency to steam, for some strange reason i dont think the heat dis-appates fast enough from the thinner metals even though you think it would, i get in the back of the boats and rarely can i stick my hand on the tubes out because of the heat. this is where i think the steam is created, my boats trademark is steam out the back, it isnt an inboard but the manifold set-up is the same except for the thin wall tube going out the transom. Ive never thought twice about steam coming out the back, i watch the gauge like the guys at the big three watch the clock at quitting time (no pun Jim) if it heats up then i start looking for a problem, It may be some of the manifolds these guys have are a little thinner at the exhaust ports and as soon as water hits that area it turns into steam ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: October-31-2007 at 8:06pm
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: February-07-2008 at 12:54pm
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I am the one that started this whole thing with my steam issue. I think I figured it out.
I was replacing my raw water pump impeller last weekend. When I went to take out the 3 small bolts, one of them was alrady broken. It had snapped about an 1/8 inch below the head. I was able to get the remainer out from the back side, since it is open. Replaced all three bolts and the new impeller. Took her out on Sunday afternoon, no steam and the manifolds and risers were cool enough to touch all day long. I must have broke the bolt with my last bit of tightening and didn't even realize it. Pump was probably drawing some air from that section of the housing seam, not enough to make an engine temp issue, but enough to get the manifolds and risers hot. My raw water pump test came in at 21 seconds. I think I remember hearing that it should be under 20. So again, mine was close, but not quite enough.?.? ------------- Brent |