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db electrical alternator

Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9667
Printed Date: March-29-2024 at 2:12am


Topic: db electrical alternator
Posted By: wakeboardin2k4
Subject: db electrical alternator
Date Posted: February-18-2008 at 6:36pm
I found a company called db electrical on ebay that sells alternators for a much lower price that a lot of other places. Anyone have any experience with them?

100amp alternator for 70 dollars. Seems like one of those too good to be true deals

Thanks Eric

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"I'm planning to bring my girl that rides on a trailer with me and leave my girl that complains about camping at home"



Replies:
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-18-2008 at 6:38pm
if it's too good then odd's are it's a POS and a half ass rebuilt alternator, beside I think I could get a AC/Delco rebuilded cheaper than that anyway.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: wakeboardin2k4
Date Posted: February-18-2008 at 6:41pm
In that case could you point me in the correct direction for a good rebuild kit?

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"I'm planning to bring my girl that rides on a trailer with me and leave my girl that complains about camping at home"


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-18-2008 at 7:38pm
Sorry don't get the same discount for other people, but keep looking, E-bay's not alway's the cheapist place.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: February-18-2008 at 10:31pm
I have not heard anything bad about DB and would purchase from them again. I bought the 55A Mando since its more of a direct replacement (identical to the one skidim sells) for the PCM ford.

The reason that one is so cheap is b/c it's a 1-wire 10SI delco, the SBC of Alternators. Even 79 says "I could get a AC/Delco rebuilded cheaper". It will probably require some re-wiring of the electrical system in addition to increasing wire gauge though. Its not exactly a plug/play.

Oh and here is a recent thread where db defends their products against blind judgements (ie cheap and/or import).
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/544973.html

Take it for what its worth.


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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001


Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-18-2008 at 11:59pm
I normally try not to post rebuilders unless they've proven to me that they do quality work, this guy has a clean organized shop and is very professional, (no trees around anywhere) but he's rebuilt marine starters and altenators for $65.00, ive never ever had a problem with his work. his rebuilds come back to me like new including all new studs, nuts and washers......just passing on info
Cuyahoga Rebuilders Inc. -Cleveland-
5111 Brookpark Rd.
Parma, Ohio 44134
216-635-0659
216-635-0667 fax

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"the things you own will start to own you"


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Bremsen Bremsen wrote:

It will probably require some re-wiring of the electrical system in addition to increasing wire gauge though. Its not exactly a plug/play.


no it doesn't have to modified and if you ever tried it's extremely difficult due to the way it is manufactured.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: dans
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 9:00pm
DB is a great place. I highly recommend them. They have new alternators also. I have a high output 200 amp new ( not refurb) DB electric alt in my 89 c1500 350 motor.I use it to power my competition 2000 watt 1ohm sub woofer amp.It has performed flawless & I punish it every day. Lots of guys in the competition car audio scene use DB electrical & have no issues. Just make sure you do the "big three wire upgrade" if your pushing a 200 amp alt.Google "big 3 upgrade" & find lots of install tips on the wire upgrades needed.O gauge alternator power wire to battery, O gauge ground wires for battery & motor .Db electrical Ebay store is the best deals & there alts have a no questions asked warranty.If I get one for my boat I'm gonna use them.I will go with something smaller than the 200 amp though. Dan

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1404&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=198582 - 82 2001


Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

no it doesn't have to modified and if you ever tried it's extremely difficult due to the way it is manufactured.


I was referring to the boat's electrical system. 3-wire to 1-wire and re-wiring the boat to handle 100 amps (breaker, wire gauge, etc).

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001


Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 10:02pm
I bought one from them also after my local rebuilder could'nt be bothered with my Prestolite.Fast shipping and looks to be a good one.I have now found someone that fixed my Prestolite,so thats going back on to keep Pete happy

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 10:55am
marine grade, doubt it.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: dans
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 11:32am
At DB you can get several marine grade alternators new & rebuilt. They can even make one to your specs if in a reasonable amp output.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1404&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=198582 - 82 2001


Posted By: wakeboardin2k4
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 3:48pm
So I bit the bullet and ordered a 100 amp 3 wire alternator from DB. Now comes the rewire of the current wires to a larger gauge. I will do a search for posts about that. If anyone knows a good one off hand could you post it?

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"I'm planning to bring my girl that rides on a trailer with me and leave my girl that complains about camping at home"


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 3:56pm
I do leave it alone before you screw it up. there's no need to change anything just because you are now using a 100A alternator.

Are you going to be hooking the amp to the alternator? I hope not it should go directly to the battery. Let all of the idiots start talking about changing this changing that it's all ********* and not needed.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

there's no need to change anything just because you are now using a 100A alternator.

Wrong. The wire running from the alt to the dash isnt fused. Thats because the 10awg factory wire can handle the full output of the stock alternator (up to 55A). That wire should be fused at the alt under its max current rating (~50A), or replaced with a wire large enough to handle the full output rating of the new alt (preferably 4awg).

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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

there's no need to change anything just because you are now using a 100A alternator.

Wrong. The wire running from the alt to the dash isnt fused. Thats because the 10awg factory wire can handle the full output of the stock alternator (up to 55A). That wire should be fused at the alt under its max current rating (~50A), or replaced with a wire large enough to handle the full output rating of the new alt (preferably 4awg).


wrong Timmy, it's way over kill on the 4 awg wire.

So let me word it a litle different. Delt with Alt design once or twice and I can tell you for a fact the wire spec never change didn't matter if it was 65A or 100A 10si or 12si the connector on the back and the wire attached to it where exactly the same. your still charging the battery at the same rate the dash gagues are still going to draw the same amount of current the radio is going to draw the same amount of current nothing changes so there is no need to change wire size or the curcuit breaker for that matter.

You guys are not comparing apples to apples, you got one battery maybe two big deal. If you have a hugh bank of batteries like some of the stereo show vehicles do then ********* yea you better upgrade the wire as now you are feeding 20 amps of current to 20 batteries so you need the current to charge them but you've got two ********* batteries max in a ski boat so waiste your money and bullsh*t your self if you want there is no ********* reason to Change the gauge of wire from the 10 awg it all ready is.

don't think that just because I'm installing an amp, I've got to change the alternator, I've got to change the gauge of wire on everything.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:


wrong Timmy, it's way over kill on the 4 awg wire.

So let me word it a litle different. Delt with Alt design once or twice and I can tell you for a fact the wire spec never change didn't matter if it was 65A or 100A 10si or 12si the connector on the back and the wire attached to it where exactly the same. your still charging the battery at the same rate the dash gagues are still going to draw the same amount of current the radio is going to draw the same amount of current nothing changes so there is no need to change wire size or the curcuit breaker for that matter.

You guys are not comparing apples to apples, you got one battery maybe two big deal. If you have a hugh bank of batteries like some of the stereo show vehicles do then f**k yea you better upgrade the wire as now you are feeding 20 amps of current to 20 batteries so you need the current to charge them but you've got two batteries max in a ski boat so waiste your money if you want there is no reason to Change the gauge of wire from the 10 awg it all ready is.


4awg is overkill, youre right. 6awg is capable of handling 100A, but theres not much head room- and 4awg wire is more common and should be less expensive, hence my recommendation.

Youre missing the point, Chris. Im not talking about the alt-batt charging loop. Youre right that the dash will draw no more current, but by upgrading the alt and not the wire running to the dash, what happens if the wire shorts somewhere before the 20A breaker at the dash? You have the potential to send a full 100A through a wire only rated for 55A. Thats how fires start. Hence, the need for a wire that can handle 100A or a fuse/breaker below the wire's current rating (55A).

I forgot that that you'll need to replace or add another engine circuit breaker. Otherwise you'll trip it every time the battery draws more current than the stock breaker will allow.



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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 4:49pm
Since your so up on battery charging does a battery charge fast at -20F, 45F or 75F?

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

the alternator will not charge the battery any faster or with a higher current, you start pumping more current to the battery then all your going to do is boil the electrolite and gas out the battery.

Are you implying that there is never any need for a higher output alternator?

Obviously an alt will only supply the amount of current being drawn from it. Im assuming that if one is upgrading the alt, theres a reason for it. That is, there are high-load systems on the boat that need to be powered. An alt with a higher current output will better serve to power those loads and/or recharge the batteries those loads are wired to.

By not changing any of the existing wiring when switching to an alt with a higher output current, you do 2 things that are undesirable:

1)You effectively limit the charging capabilities of the new alt to the rating of the engine breaker.

2)You increase the risk of melting the wire running to the dash and starting a fire.

Failing to address the first issue negates any improvement with the new alt. Failing to address the second issue increases the chances of burning your boat to the waterline.

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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 5:31pm
Tim, I feel your statement on a 100amp alternators potential to produce the 100 amps is right on the money. I too would up size wire plus add fusing/breakers.



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/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 5:44pm
you two do not understand the inner workings of an alternator. The way you talk is the battery creates load on the electrical system which it doesn't, the number of accesories in use at one time is what creates the load on the alternator not the battery. The amount of current going to the battery is controled by the recitifier bridge and is constant, if you increase the amount of current going to the battery you destroy the battery by boiling it because you are sending to much current to the battery. And since your so intune with the inner works of an alternator, what changes inside of it to create more current? The windings inside of the rotor segment is what does and they share everything else stator, regulator, diode trio, brush holder, recifier bridge are all the same. So if a 64A alternator and a 100A alternator share the exact same electroinc's how can one charge the battery more than the other? it cann't dump ass listen you are in left field talking out of your ass because you have never worked on or designed an alternator ever so why is it you would know more about it than someone that has? I wish I still had access to the drawing of the general asmblies and I could show you that a 64A 10si is exactly the same as a 100A 10si with the exception of one one part and that assembly that it goes into.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:01pm
Chris, I have stayed out of this pissing contest , so far, BUT.
On a 10 SI , merely changing the stator on a 65 amp unit will allow this unit to produce 100 amps for a short period of time.
The rotor, bridge diode,regulator and trio all stay the same.
To build a bullet proof 100 amp unit that will handle this type of heat for long will require a rewound rotor and a larger diode bank,ie to get rid of the excessive heat generated .
The 12SI will do a better job of supplying 100 plus amps strictly by its design, better air flow and larger components. It just dont fit as well as the smaller sibling into the marine confines of an engine box.....

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boat dr

/diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by boat dr boat dr wrote:

On a 10 SI , merely changing the stator on a 65 amp unit will allow this unit to produce 100 amps for a short period of time.
The rotor, bridge diode,regulator and trio all stay the same.
To build a bullet proof 100 amp unit that will handle this type of heat for long will require a rewound rotor and a larger diode bank,ie to get rid of the excessive heat generated .


since you stepped in and conterdicted your self you should read what you typed and read what I said, the windings inside of the rotor segment is what changes not the stator windings, you yourself state to make a bullet proof 100A you have to change the rotor so what is it Stator or rotor that has to change? rotor does. Changing the stator does nothing on a generator, Now if it was a motor then changing the stator would make more or less power depending on how the new stator was wound but again on a motor you change the stator to change the power rating on a alternator you change the rotor to change the power rating.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:11pm
besides the 10si and 12si units where never design to be repairable that's why the stator leads are welded to the bridge assembly and why there is a plastic cover on the side slip ring end or SRE as it was called on the drawings and was made up of the SRE housing, bridge asm, diode trio, regulator, stator, brush holder asm and the DE or drive end contand the De housing, rotor asm and pulley.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:30pm
I lost you at SRE, that is a huge sentence. Glad I peeked in here, a lot of activity over an alternator.

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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

I lost you at SRE, that is a huge sentence. Glad I peeked in here, a lot of activity over an alternator.


I guess when it's your name on the drawing that the shop floor is using to build from, then you might have a little clue on how they are made and how they are suppose to work and what is different between a 64A unit and 100A unit in the same product line.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:44pm
well Here's something for you Doc, try this out you might have everything needed.

Need a boat with an alternator rating around 35-64A and that has a ampmeter in the dash.

now leave the blower on for a couple hours to draing the battery. Start the boat and watch the amp meter and record the highist reading. bet it's not over 20 amps. Now replace the alt with a 100A unit and do the same thing and 100 bucks say's you will see the same amp reading on the gauge around 20A's

So if I listen to Tim a 100A alt is going to charge a battery faster but how is that possible when they both have the same amount of current going into the battery yet the one alt has almost double the amp rating?

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:44pm
Too many hours in the sun or too many Buds.
Both units are rebuildable with many thousands under my belt.
The stators are attached to the bridge diode with 10/32 screws, these also hold the regulator and the diode trio in place. That is the device that turns off the idiot light on the dash.
All the 10SI stators are wired in the delta config.The size of the winding are larger.
No Chris i was not in the think tank that did the designing, I was the one in the Alternator shop that did the rebuilding. Heat was and is the KILLER of these units, the insulators that wrap around the stator winding deteriorate and allow the stator to short to the core.
They will not allow enough cooling air thru the housing , design flaw from the engineers.
I stand by my statement as to above.....

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boat dr

/diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier


Posted By: wakeboardin2k4
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:46pm
In the end im going to upgrade the wire just simply so I don't burn the boat down to the waterline from over amping a small gauge wire. Plus wire is relatively cheap.

The reason for my change from a 55amp alternator to a 100amp is because I have a small system with 2 amplifiers (500 watts each), dual batteries, and 3 ballast pumps. And my old alternator couldn't keep up with that kind of load and died so I'm going with something stronger. Thanks for everyones help, now lets all buy each other a beer calm down

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"I'm planning to bring my girl that rides on a trailer with me and leave my girl that complains about camping at home"


Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:47pm
Those units were rated at 65 amps not 64, and if you did design them , you knew that the stator was removeable. And yes they were repairable...........

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boat dr

/diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier


Posted By: dans
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:49pm
I was running a 110 amp alt with small factory wires on my c1500 . I was pushing 600 watts at 2 ohms & I was ok. I upgraded my sound system to a 2000 watt wired at 1 ohm & the 110 alt was fine with a red top battery. After a few friends fried there alts in competitions I upgraded to a 200 amp DB alt before I ran into problems.Now I only upgraded the wires to zero gauge when I got the 200 amp alt . The reason for the fused (200 fuse)power o gauge to the battery is obvious.The zero gauge wire for the battery post negative to chassis & the zero gauge ground wire from motor to chassis is to eliminate ground loop noise.Hence "the big three upgrade".This is really for big systems with big amps, but if you have lots of noise coming in the speakers on pause or an alternator whine while the motor is reving this ground wire upgrade will fix it.On a boat the 4 gauge fused power wire can't hurt for the 100amp alt.The 4 gauge ground wire upgrade for the alt can't hurt either.It will eliminate ground loop noise & prevent a fire at best.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1404&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=198582 - 82 2001


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by boat dr boat dr wrote:

Too many hours in the sun or too many Buds.
Both units are rebuildable with many thousands under my belt.
The stators are attached to the bridge diode with 10/32 screws, these also hold the regulator and the diode trio in place. That is the device that turns off the idiot light on the dash.
All the 10SI stators are wired in the delta config.The size of the winding are larger.
No Chris i was not in the think tank that did the designing, I was the one in the Alternator shop that did the rebuilding. Heat was and is the KILLER of these units, the insulators that wrap around the stator winding deteriorate and allow the stator to short to the core.
They will not allow enough cooling air thru the housing , design flaw from the engineers.
I stand by my statement as to above.....


don't confuse the CS series of alternators to the SI series of alternators they are not the same. Never said that they could not be rebuilt said they where not designed to be rebuilt due to the assemble methods. The stator is welded directly the the bridge assemble of which the diode trio is intragal to it on the SI design, unlike the CS series they are screwed and have ring terminals on them.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

now leave the blower on for a couple hours to draing the battery. Start the boat and watch the amp meter and record the highist reading. bet it's not over 20 amps. Now replace the alt with a 100A unit and do the same thing and 100 bucks say's you will see the same amp reading on the gauge around 20A's

So if I listen to Tim a 100A alt is going to charge a battery faster but how is that possible when they both have the same amount of current going into the battery yet the one alt has almost double the amp rating?

I didnt say that.

I can come up with a reasonable scenario where its true, though. Take that same situation and add the draw of a second battery thats been run down by a stereo system with the engine off, plus the load of the stereo that continues to play after starting the boat. Will the alt still put out a maximum of 20A, or will it be greater than that? If a 55A alt was struggling to power all of the accessories with the boat running, wouldnt a 100A alt charge the batteries more quickly? People who use their boats like this are the ones who are upgrading their electrical systems with multiple batteries and high output alternators. (...not usually by people who forget to turn off their blowers.)

All of this is neither here nor there. My statement above holds true. If upgrading the alt, the wiring to the dash needs to be upgraded or fused, and the engine breaker needs to be sized appropriately to take advantage of the alternator output current.

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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 7:12pm
Let's take the battery out of the argument and simply state "load". If you have a 100amp load and the alternator is putting out 100amps then wiring that is too small will heat up and you will have a problem.

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/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 8:54pm
I don't care what any of you say, I can piss farther than all of you.

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Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by Jim_In_Houston Jim_In_Houston wrote:

I don't care what any of you say, I can piss farther than all of you.




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/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 12:01am
I'm not arguing anyones point here,but just curious.If you are running the amp directly off the battery,and not thru the ignition switch wiring,why would it be affected?I can see the point about trying to pull too many amps thru a small gauge wire and starting a fire before the breaker trips,but isn't the amount of amperage travelling thru a wire based on the demand from the electrical loads on that particular circuit? I must be missing something and it's probably right in front of me,I'm certainly no electrical guru. Tim,did you modify the schematic on the last page?

    Mike

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http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team

640 hours, not 1 regret


Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 2:12am
Originally posted by wakeboardin2k4 wakeboardin2k4 wrote:

So I bit the bullet and ordered a 100 amp 3 wire alternator from DB. Now comes the rewire of the current wires to a larger gauge. I will do a search for posts about that. If anyone knows a good one off hand could you post it?


Wake, is your new alternator an SI series or is a a Mando? If it's an SI series the #1 wire is wired to the ignition switch through a diode (diode points to alternator). The #2 wire is a sense wire for the voltage regulator. Lots if times it's looped straight over to the B+ post on the alternator. Since you're powering audio amps I'd definitely increase the size of the current carrying wire from the alt to the Batt. Increased load (amps) calls for increased wire size.....sorry Chris.....that's just the way it is!

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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier

Former boats:
88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II
59 Chris Craft Capri (woody)


Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 2:28am
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

besides the 10si and 12si units where never design to be repairable that's why the stator leads are welded to the bridge assembly and why there is a plastic cover on the side slip ring end or SRE as it was called on the drawings and was made up of the SRE housing, bridge asm, diode trio, regulator, stator, brush holder asm and the DE or drive end contand the De housing, rotor asm and pulley.


Chris, I think you have your alternators crossed somewhere. Every 10 or 12SI alternator I've torn apart (and that's quite a few of them) have all had ring terminals on the stator windings which are secured to the rectifier posts (3 of them) with nuts. The bearings, brushes, rectifier, regulator, diode trio and stator were all replaceable. There's even a screen kit available to convert this alternator to a marine unit.

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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier

Former boats:
88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II
59 Chris Craft Capri (woody)


Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 2:46am
nutty, let that dog sleep.I know and you know, but we did not design them so that makes us the dumb ******** for the day.
I too have had a few apart on the bench, hopped up a few and saw many die a smokey death, all related to heat related failures.
The design flaw of not enough air flow to cool the bridge/stator assy.
But what do I know, just a tech.You are a dumb ********** too come to think of it, glad to see I have friends of like standings,lol..........Boat dr

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boat dr

/diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier


Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 3:01am
I'm there for ya BD!

-------------
95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier

Former boats:
88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II
59 Chris Craft Capri (woody)


Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 3:09am
Birds of a feather.........
Do you ever wonder how a dog can gain so much info by smelling another dogs ass, but with humans we just have to open our mouth??????

-------------
boat dr

/diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier


Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 3:24am
Wow...a J_I_H sighting.....you must be only lurking now-a-days.
We need ya posting more Jim....your special brand of humor.

john

-------------
"Loud pipes save lives"



AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"...


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 11:40am
Originally posted by 05 210 05 210 wrote:

   I'm not arguing anyones point here,but just curious.If you are running the amp directly off the battery,and not thru the ignition switch wiring,why would it be affected?I can see the point about trying to pull too many amps thru a small gauge wire and starting a fire before the breaker trips,but isn't the amount of amperage travelling thru a wire based on the demand from the electrical loads on that particular circuit? I must be missing something and it's probably right in front of me,I'm certainly no electrical guru. Tim,did you modify the schematic on the last page?

    Mike

Mike, the schematic I posted was one option on how to modify the stock electrical system when adding a second battery and a higher output alt. The other option would be to delete the 50A breaker and replace the 10awg wire to the dash with a 4awg.

Youre right that there should be no increased load from the dash if everything is wired directly to the battery (as it should be). However, if a short occurs between the alt and dash, that wire either needs to be fused (its not fused from the factory) or be large enough to handle the maximum current from the alt. Leaving an unfused 10awg wire attached to a 100A alt (even if you dont expect there to be a load on the end of it) is a safety hazard. Thats why the factory put a 10awg wire attached to a 35A alt (10awg can safely carry up to 55A), even though the dash breaker is only 20A.

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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 2:30pm
http://198.208.187.182/internet/ViewPartImage.jsp?acdelcoPartNumber=321-479 - this is what I'm refering to

now if thats the CS so be it I have it backwards after not working there for 15 yrs.

what gauge wire is used between the alternator and start relay? your schematic states 4 awg or has that been changed from the factory.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:


what gauge wire is used between the alternator and start relay? your schematic states 4 awg or has that been changed from the factory.

Not sure. That diagram is how I would modify the stock system to accomodate a second battery and upgraded alt.

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Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 3:01pm
Chris , I would assume this is as close as we will get to:
For once in my life I was wrong,you guys were correct.There is a major difference between a 10SI and the the unit pictured.
We accept and we will move on.........
           Boat Dr

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boat dr

/diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 3:02pm
so then tell me on 70'S-80'S models, the pos lead from the alt goes straight to the starter relay after it goes through the Curcuit breaker, correct? and the battery lead goes straight to the starter relay, correct? are they on the same post of the starter relay?

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

are they on the same post of the starter relay?
IIRC, yes. With the stock wiring the dash lead is not fused between the alt and the dash, which is why Tim has put the stock 55A breaker on the 10awg.


Not to beat a dead horse but this is exactly the point everyone is trying to make:
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

the number of accesories in use at one time is what creates the load on the alternator

I think we're all assuming that anyone looking at purchasing a 100A alternator is doing so b/c they have, or plan on, increasing the current draw with stereo amplifiers, ballast pumps, etc. You wouldn't need a 100A alt simply to replace an aging/faulty one.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

so then tell me on 70'S-80'S models, the pos lead from the alt goes straight to the starter relay after it goes through the Curcuit breaker, correct? and the battery lead goes straight to the starter relay, correct? are they on the same post of the starter relay?

This diagram works for 83 1/2 and newer PCM's (when they made the switch to internally regulated alternators).



The dash is fed directly by the alt. It does not go through the breaker. Only the charging circuit (alt-->batt) goes through the breaker. Thats why the breaker needs to be upsized to handle the max current of the alt. I believe the main purpose of the breaker is to protect the wiring system from the battery (which can source A LOT of current). The only unprotected wiring is between the battery, solenoid and starter.

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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 3:44pm
Ok I'll take that as correct Tim and Doc,

So since we have multiple batteries that need this extra current to charge then and they are creating this huge load on the electrical system aka Alternator. So we need double the current that was there before because we have two batteries now. Explain to me have all of this current is going through the dash and wiring harness and causing this fire hazzard because the wire gauge is too small from the factory for a 100A alternator.

So is it true that electricity takes the path of least resistance?

what has less resistance 0 awg or 6 awg wire. The 0 awg wire does right? so then since the path of least resistance is the 0 awg wire and the alternator wire is connected directly to this wire how can the load created from these draing batteries/high power amp connected to the batteries going to flow through the dash panel wiring and burn down the boat when it doesn't travel though the dash wiring harness? So if it doesn't travel though the dash why do I need to increase the size of the wire going to it when all of the current is going through the battery cable connected to the alternator wire at the starter relay? (path of least resistance basic electricity) I'm missing how the boat is going to short and melt down and cause a fire because the dash wiring harness has failed?

with the logic you are trying to peddle it would imply that all wires within the electrical system could see the full amperage output from the alternator and that's just not the case. And with your logic the battery is not going to be charged until the current passes throught the ignition switch and the dash panel before it ever reaches the battery. Again this is just not true or how the electrical system works. The current going to the dash is not going to change just because you increase the output of the alternator, you haven't changed any of the loads in the wiring curcuit so the load is the same as it was before the upgrade. Oh so now we are going to add a stereo that wasn't there before ok fine now we have increased the load because now we have to power the head unit so maybe now the load increase by about 10 amps maybe well within the capacity of the current wire, but hey what a minute we have amps too, well ok that's fine, what are the wired to? the battery directly not the dash or ignition switch so that current passes through the battery cable right.

So if I am not creating more load at the dash than what all ready is there why do I have to increase the wire size, I don't.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 3:45pm
just to throw a log on the fire, this is why you dont remove the battery cables while the engine is running to check if your altenator is working, the altenator senses voltage amp drop and then this full fields the altenator.
ive had the voltage regulators go bad and the DVA will read 20 volts and the battery will be smoking ans boiling, it can bombared the battery with amps either, just like a battery charger...trickle charge slowly charges the battery and boost blasts it with amps which will shorten the life

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"the things you own will start to own you"


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:


The dash is fed directly by the alt. It does not go through the breaker. Only the charging circuit (alt-->batt) goes through the breaker.


wrong

I suggest you refer to the wiring diagram in the PCM manual and not an edited diagram that is not completely correct and you will see the batter cable, alternator pos lead, and the pos lead for the ignition switch all go to the same post on the solenoid/relay.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:


The dash is fed directly by the alt. It does not go through the breaker. Only the charging circuit (alt-->batt) goes through the breaker.


wrong.

Wanna bet? Why dont you go look at your boat and check. Oh thats right you dont even own a Correct Craft, dump a**.

Sorry, couldnt help myself.

Here is the engine wiring diagram out of the '89 PCM manual.



This diagram leaves a lot to be desired. The physical connections are unclear or incorrect (in reality, the alt does not connect to the ignition wiring at the ballast resistor), so before making my wiring diagram above, I traded several emails and phone calls with Vince from SkiDIM. This is a better PCM diagram that he sent me.



This should show the breaker connections a little more clearly. I have verified that this is how my '90 was wired.

Before I started sharing my diagram, Vince verified it, as did the members here with http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5541 - this thread. Thanks for the input back then, Mr. Expert.

As far as the load of extra accessories not going through the dash (assuming theyre wired directly to the batter), youre correct. Thats exactly what I said. You need to go back and read my response to Mike (05 210) above.

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Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 4:22pm
I don't see any circuit breaker in the PCM diagram either. I guess that means I should just remove it.

I know that on my boat, the main POS lead off the alternator and the main dash lead were located on the same terminal on the circuit breaker. The battery and starter were the only protected ciruits. I don't believe it had ever been touched.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 4:28pm
I can't see the picture now, RR filters it out, put I don't understand whats hard to read in the diagram to figure out where everything is connected looks pretty clear to me and I didn't see any posting by me on your wiring diagram topic link you posted.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

I can't see the picture now, RR filters it out, put I don't understand whats hard to read in the diagram to figure out where everything is connected looks pretty clear to me and I didn't see any posting by me on your wiring diagram topic link you posted.

Like I said, thanks for the help putting my diagram together.

In the PCM manual, the electrical connections are correct, but the physical connections depicted are misleading. For example, the alternator does not connect to the ballast resistor like the diagram shows (though it is electrically equivalent). Its also difficult to tell which wires connect to which posts on the starter solenoid. The second diagram is much clearer.

When youre able to see the pics, be sure to tell us if you still think the alt goes through the breaker on the way to the dash. Reference connections #22 and #23.

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Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by Bremsen Bremsen wrote:

I know that on my boat, the main POS lead off the alternator and the main dash lead were located on the same terminal on the circuit breaker. The battery and starter were the only protected ciruits. I don't believe it had ever been touched.


So you're basically combining Tim and Chris's arguments here.

Tim says dash needs to be protected from the battery by the breaker, which it is. Chris says it does not need to be protected from the alternator. So basically Tim's diagram needs the orange alt output on the other side of the 50A engine breaker.

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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Originally posted by Bremsen Bremsen wrote:

I know that on my boat, the main POS lead off the alternator and the main dash lead were located on the same terminal on the circuit breaker. The battery and starter were the only protected ciruits. I don't believe it had ever been touched.


So you're basically combining Tim and Chris's arguments here.

Tim says dash needs to be protected from the battery by the breaker, which it is. Chris says it does not need to be protected from the alternator. So basically Tim's diagram needs the orange alt output on the other side of the 50A engine breaker.

No, he's confirming what I said. He just misused the term "protected." Only the starter and battery are on the UNprotected side. Everything else is on the protected side, that is, protected from the battery which is the greatest current source in the boat.

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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Originally posted by Bremsen Bremsen wrote:

I know that on my boat, the main POS lead off the alternator and the main dash lead were located on the same terminal on the circuit breaker. The battery and starter were the only protected ciruits. I don't believe it had ever been touched.


So you're basically combining Tim and Chris's arguments here.

Tim says dash needs to be protected from the battery by the breaker, which it is. Chris says it does not need to be protected from the alternator. So basically Tim's diagram needs the orange alt output on the other side of the 50A engine breaker.


nobody said anything about removing or added a curcuit breaker or fuse Kevin

Tim look on page 22 of teh 302 and 351 PCM manual instead of the 89, the diagram is a lot easier to read and I've got now clue where you see the ballast coming into play. Maybe thats the problem you need a lession in reading schematics

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 4:56pm
I just was "testing" you guys.

Haha, no really I just misread that post. I also like to pitch in and do my share of fueling the fire.

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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 5:05pm
Kevin we know how well you fix things, and it took how long to fix your boat? or is it still underpowered for some unknown reason you can't figure out still?

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 5:30pm
Faster than somebody's in this thread...

Nah I still haven't checked the springs. It's fast enough for me, but we know it could/should be a little faster. My penis is plenty large, so making my boat faster is not a priority.

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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:


Tim look on page 22 of teh 302 and 351 PCM manual instead of the 89, the diagram is a lot easier to read and I've got now clue where you see the ballast coming into play. Maybe thats the problem you need a lession in reading schematics

Actually, I thought the clearer diagram might help YOU. Please explain to me how the breaker is wired according to this diagram (pulled from page 22 in the PCM 302/351 manual).



*hint: There is no breaker in that diagram. Its even more inadequate than the one in the '89 manual.

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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

It's fast enough for me, but we know it could/should be a little faster. My penis is plenty large, so making my boat faster is not a priority.


so why does your gilrfriend keep calling me and telling me how she's unsatisfied and can barely feel anything when your inside

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 5:39pm
The breaker is the only thing missing in the diagram.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 5:50pm


so where is the wire connected with the battery cable come from? Alternator?

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

I suggest you refer to the wiring diagram in the PCM manual and you will see the batter cable, alternator pos lead, and the pos lead for the ignition switch all go to the same post on the solenoid/relay.

The breaker is the only thing missing in the diagram.

Im curious how you can be so adamant about how the breaker is wired when the best source you have is a diagram without one and you dont have a Correct Craft to verify it against.

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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 5:58pm
I'm not the one bring up anything about the breaker and what wire it should be installed in. I've been saying the current the dash see's will not change as the output of the alternator is changed. Path of least resistance. You keep saying you have to run a new wire to the dash and you don't because the load to the dash does not change the load to the battery or batteries which ever the case may be does.

That wire connected to the solenoid/relay is connected directly to the alternator and because of that all the current will travel through the battery cable. Hell if you read the damn manual it even tells you that the current doesn't pass through the dash like you keep trying to tell everyone because it is sunted(sp).

where the breaker is is not relavent when you are talking where the current is going it's an inline device the does not change the flow of current, it's only they as a saftey device. SO if it is inline with the alternator output is not important doesn't change the wiring doesn't change the current flow path doesn't do anything unless there is too much current going through it then it trips.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 6:03pm
Chris, clearly you have a reading comprehension problem. Ive addressed that in this thread 3 times already. I agree that the load to the dash doesnt change. Go back to page 2 and read my response to Mike (05 210) as to why you need to fuse the 10awg wire or replace it with a larger one when installing an upgraded alt. Its a safety issue.

You dont need to school me on basic electrical principles, Ive already got my degree. If J_I_H wants to chime in, thats another story- Im glad to listen to those who know more than I do.

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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by 05 210 05 210 wrote:

   I'm not arguing anyones point here,but just curious.If you are running the amp directly off the battery,and not thru the ignition switch wiring,why would it be affected?I can see the point about trying to pull too many amps thru a small gauge wire and starting a fire before the breaker trips,but isn't the amount of amperage travelling thru a wire based on the demand from the electrical loads on that particular circuit? I must be missing something and it's probably right in front of me,I'm certainly no electrical guru. Tim,did you modify the schematic on the last page?

    Mike

Mike, the schematic I posted was one option on how to modify the stock electrical system when adding a second battery and a higher output alt. The other option would be to delete the 50A breaker and replace the 10awg wire to the dash with a 4awg.

Youre right that there should be no increased load from the dash if everything is wired directly to the battery (as it should be). However, if a short occurs between the alt and dash, that wire either needs to be fused (its not fused from the factory) or be large enough to handle the maximum current from the alt. Leaving an unfused 10awg wire attached to a 100A alt (even if you dont expect there to be a load on the end of it) is a safety hazard. Thats why the factory put a 10awg wire attached to a 35A alt (10awg can safely carry up to 55A), even though the dash breaker is only 20A.


here let me pull this out for you.

"The other option would be to delete the 50A breaker and replace the 10awg wire to the dash with a 4awg."

why do you need to do this if the current to the dash doesn't change. You don't

Now what needs to change is the wire from the alternator to the solenoid/relay which might be a 4'-5' piece of wire on top of the motor. not from the alternator all the way to the ignition switch in the dash.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 6:07pm
Tim, cut him some slack.....
He just got mixxed up as to what year he did the drawing for charge circuit.It would be an easy thing to do, after all the R&D he has done over the years.
Just simply overlooked, case in point.GM alternators.Two entirely different designs, dont even look simular. Yet he will come off with that BS that he designed them.
If I spent that much time on a project I would at least knew the type code (SI) and how the internals were laid out.
But he will bash someone as to the rebuildablity of this unit.
Chris go hide back under that rock, we need info, correct info. Not you trying to inflate you own ego.
And as far as the sexual slams towards a member of this site , that just shows your own "short coming"
I is hard to unpaint your self out of a corner, and here you have ended up in the corner with egg on your face and paint on your knees...........boat dr

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boat dr

/diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 6:17pm
Billy please, what is marketed and what they are called on the drawings are two completely different things.

Tell me what GM motor used the ABITS ignition system, what used the IDI system?

has those where the names in the discription box of the title block.

so just because I use a different term than you means nothing and since GM sold the buisness long ago I do not have my connections to show you the drawings.

also tell me how many of the alternators of the example that I showed you've rebuilt? has there isn't a standard screw in it or a diode trio either.



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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

why do you need to do this if the current to the dash doesn't change. You don't


And in the event of a short in the dash? The breaker will still protect the circuit from the battery, but what about the alternator that can now produce twice the current that 10awg is rated for?

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by Bremsen Bremsen wrote:

Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

why do you need to do this if the current to the dash doesn't change. You don't


And in the event of a short in the dash? The breaker will still protect the circuit from the battery, but what about the alternator that can now produce twice the current that 10awg is rated for?


ok so your comprehenssion is a little worse than mine, Tim said to remove it and to replace the wire not me, taking it out of context there slick.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 6:56pm
My comprehension?? This whole thread is based on you saying that it's not necessary to change the 10awg dash lead. I'm simply asking what would happen if you have a short in the dash with a 100amp alternator?

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001


Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

Originally posted by Bremsen Bremsen wrote:

Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

why do you need to do this if the current to the dash doesn't change. You don't


And in the event of a short in the dash? The breaker will still protect the circuit from the battery, but what about the alternator that can now produce twice the current that 10awg is rated for?


ok so your comprehenssion is a little worse than mine, Tim said to remove it and to replace the wire not me, taking it out of context there slick.

Nope, he's got it right- almost. A short in the dash should trip the 20A IGN breaker. If a short were to occur somewhere between the alt and that breaker, you'd melt the wire and start a fire.

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Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 7:00pm
Tim, HTH are you reading my mind?!?.....thats twice now!

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001


Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 7:29pm
no "F' words im very surprised

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"the things you own will start to own you"


Posted By: dans
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 8:20pm
The fuse is cheap . The wire is not very expensive. About 20 minutes to wire it all up. Protect your boat for a few bucks , NO BRAINER.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1404&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1981&yrend=198582 - 82 2001


Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 10:01pm
I still think I can piss farther than anyone else.

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Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang


Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by Jim_In_Houston Jim_In_Houston wrote:

I still think I can piss farther than anyone else.




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/diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow -

54 Atom

/diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<


Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: February-21-2008 at 10:08pm
    I got it Tim! Before reading all the above posts.In a perfect world,you don't need to upgrade the wiring,but if you were to get a short(high current demand)on that wire......ssssmmmokin!I knew the answer was right in front of me,it was just easier to ask you . You can hook 10ga jumper cables to your dead car battery no problem,but try to start the car and see what happens. I misunderstood you earlier cause I didn't realize that schematic was modified.

     Mike.

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http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team

640 hours, not 1 regret


Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-22-2008 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by 05 210 05 210 wrote:

     I got it Tim! Before reading all the above posts.In a perfect world,you don't need to upgrade the wiring,but if you were to get a short(high current demand)on that wire......ssssmmmokin!


well if that happens then you just learned a valuable lesson as to why you do not remove the fuse or curcuit breaker from the curcuit. Because if it does short then it will blow the fuse or trip the breaker depending what is used.

So I'm going to double the output of the alt so I better change all of the wiring going to the dash. No not true, might have to change the wire from the alternator to the first connection where it is attached to the battery cable. But not the dash you haven't done anything to it to change the load going to it that would increase the load or increase the current draw.

Oh but I'm going to add a killer system and some ballast tanks. Oh really cool you just added 10 amps more current by doing that so now when I flip everything on that is on the dash it will draw 30 amps instead of 20 amps. So if that 10 gauge wire is too small to handle the extra current it was marginal to start with and should have been a larger gauge from the get go.

So if you want to waiste your time and money re-wiring the boat knock your self out but all you need to change is one section of wire that is maybe 5' long because you are not changing any electrical load on the sytem by just upgrading the alternator. And even if you are adding pumps and a head unit you are barely increasing the load on the system at the dash but I've got amps big deal they should be connected directly to the battery to start with and the increased wire size from the alternator to the solenoid/relay takes care of that and the extra battery easily.

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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique


Posted By: skalomenos
Date Posted: April-20-2008 at 5:04pm
Can anyone offer any help in regards to wiring? I am going from a three wire Mando alternator to a one wire Delco alternator. I know where the battery wire connects but I am stuck wondering what to do with the other wires. I have a black..I suppose this is the ground and then I have a green wire I think was connected to the exciter? I need help regarding what needs to be done with the green and black wires now.

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-Nothing beats a day on the water


Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: April-21-2008 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by skalomenos skalomenos wrote:

Can anyone offer any help in regards to wiring? I am going from a three wire Mando alternator to a one wire Delco alternator. I know where the battery wire connects but I am stuck wondering what to do with the other wires. I have a black..I suppose this is the ground and then I have a green wire I think was connected to the exciter? I need help regarding what needs to be done with the green and black wires now.


Skalomenos, I'm pretty sure that the black and green wires are not necessary any more with your one wire alt. The one wire does not need an excitation circuit as this is done inside the alt. For now, just tape up ends of these two wires (temporarily and separately of course) and start your engine. Check that all your gages and accessories are working normally. Make sure you are charging. If you don't have a voltmeter installed, I would install one (in place of the amp meter that is). If everything works normally you can do away with the other two wires. One question - do the black and green wires join your wiring harness bundle and disappear?



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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier

Former boats:
88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II
59 Chris Craft Capri (woody)



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