351 W stops after being shut off wont start |
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phillipsrj
Newbie Joined: October-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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The base in the distributor is gone. So the chance of a retro fit would cost me a whole new distributor.
Thanks Commodore Bob |
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Commodore Bob.
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phillipsrj
Newbie Joined: October-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Yes.
Commodore Bob |
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Commodore Bob.
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phillipsrj
Newbie Joined: October-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Thanks,
Did the new Distributor just drop in or would you suggest professional install. Do you have the part #. The ones I see on the net have a vacuum advance? Commodore Bob |
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Commodore Bob.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bob,
You must be looking at automotive distributors. Marines are mechanical advance. Installing a distributor old or new involves getting the firing order correct to the position of the distributor and then timing it. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
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The distributor I dropped in had Vacuum advance but we did not hook it up. It has no advantage in a boat because the engines are under load all the time. In a car it really helps but not in a boat.. Before ordering any distributor make sure you check your clearances.
The one we installed barely had room. The Ford is pretty tight for space. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
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I did a google search Ford Distributor HEI Conversion, several popped up.
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shierh
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 605 |
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In my old boat i converted to pertronix ignitors. worked beautifully. Because it was an offshore boat and we typically traveled over 35miles out i carried 2 spares but never had an issue during the 6 years we ran it. only thing that happened was the coil on starboard engine came apart, end shot out, screw was loose and oil leaked out. That was a pertronix flame thrower coil. after that i pulled coil on other engine and tightened up the screw before it became an issue.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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The number of marine HEI conversions for Ford is a short list, none are in the $150 range that I am aware of. The DUI unit is more than 2x that cost. If the unit has a vacuum advance it is almost undoubtedly not marine, and does not have any of the marine spark arresting features. (=explosion hazard) Bringing this thread full circle, I have not heard any positive feedback as to whether this is a fuel or ignition problem... So chances are good that we're still on a wild goose chase here. Has any spark testing or fuel issues been investigated when the symptoms arise? I did not read anything to indicate any sort of meaningful troubleshooting had occurred. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I'm always curious about why? Dwell a problem? |
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phillipsrj
Newbie Joined: October-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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I think I have it narrowed down. It is ignition. The Coil gets very hot and shuts down until it cools off. I do not know what is causing it? I am replacing the ballast resistor today thinking it may be the problem? When it is cool it starts and runs like a champ! Let it set for twenty minutes and she refuses to start.
Commodore Bob |
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Commodore Bob.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Did you confirm loss of spark when this happens? I did not see that.
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phillipsrj
Newbie Joined: October-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Confirmed. I pulled a plug and no spark. Commodore Bob
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Commodore Bob.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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No spark but why? You didn't follow my instructions did you!!!
Bob, you are just throwing parts at it without doing any testing!! As HW and I suggested, FIND HELP!!! |
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mikestoner93
Newbie Joined: August-28-2015 Location: Montverde, Fl Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Also one thing too add I've seen people forget to even change the plugs and check the gaps. I didn't see it mentioned figured I would add this, hopefully it "sparks" a revelation (lol i know that was terrible).....
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I tried to be awkward once... Just to see what it felt like...
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phillipsrj
Newbie Joined: October-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Now you are telling me that after it starts and runs perfectly that the plug gap is the problem?
Commodore Bob |
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Commodore Bob.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Plug gap was simply a suggestion and is a routine check. Bob, as mentioned, you really have done nothing to determine the cause of the problem even though we have tried to suggest troubleshooting. Get the VOM out and check some voltages. Run the tests as suggested. Get some hands on help and don't just consider throwing parts at it. |
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dangerwil
Senior Member Joined: June-20-2013 Location: Orange Park, FL Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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I just went through all of this so I thought I would chime in with some info that I learned.
Go to the manufacturer of the electronic ignition and read the specs on their module. These units are made for cars and you have to get a couple of things right for them to work on a boat. I had the same problem. After running the boat for a short time the coil would be stupid hot, start to miss and then fail. Burned through 2 coils. This is what fixed my problem. I am running a 302 with converted distro. I have a pertronix 1581 kit on my Prestolite distro so I will be referencing that. Most kits say to remove the ballast resistor to the coil. What a ballast resistor does is drop the standard 12 volts in a car down to about 9 volts that coils and points like to run at. The new style coils for electronic modules all run at 12 volts. No problem in a car where it is easy to find a regulated 12 volt line. On my boat the alternator puts out a solid 14.4 volts when running. This put my amp draw at 9.8 way too high. So I needed a ballast resistor to bring this down to 12 volts. Pertronix says the module can pull no more than 8 amps, so Ohms Law. 14.4/8=1.8 I needed a 1.8 ohm ballast resistor to be within spec. So alright you want to buy a ballast resistor, but they don't sell them by ohms they sell them by car model. I found a 1.4 online. And used a coil with internal restance to get what I needed. Pertronix says the coil and module circuit must have a minimum of 1.5 ohms of resistance to function properly so I used a 1.5 ohm internal resistance oil filled flamethrower coil and all should have been good. Running at about 8 amp draw. It burned up. On my engine the coil is mounted on its side. You can't mount the new oil filled coils on their side they don't like it. As soon as I started talking to the hot rod guys they all told me this. So I bought an epoxy coil with a higher internal resistance, 3 ohms. 12 volts / 3 ohms =4 amps of current that the igniton module draws. I have run the HELL out of this set up and it has been rock solid, If I want a little hotter spark, I could remove the ballast resistor. 14.4 volts / 3 ohms=4.8 amp draw and a hotter spark. Worked for me, YMMV. |
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phillipsrj
Newbie Joined: October-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Where did you get the correct coil? Part#. I noticed by pic's that some coils are mounted pointing up and away. I wonder where I can get this kink of mount it makes sense>
Commodore Bob |
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Commodore Bob.
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Moody Blue
Groupie Joined: July-24-2015 Location: indianapolis,In Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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I have exactly the same problem. Mid 80's 351 W transplant in a '72 Martinique. Holley carb. Starts fine cold with one pump of the throttle and runs great. It also needs to idle a bit high. Initially replaced a non- functioning choke thermostat and replaced solenoid. Still have the no re start issue when hot.
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Moody Blue
Groupie Joined: July-24-2015 Location: indianapolis,In Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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I have points and my coil is on its side. Epoxy coil can mount on its side?
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Yes, epoxy doesn't matter how it's mounted.. But then again neither does the OEM oil filled coil, when came sideways on the engine. I think the aftermarket coils are orientation sensitive.
Is your coil hot when the problem appears? Could just be a ballast resister issue. I would test the coil when you see the symptom before spending money. You could use an ohmmeter or just manually trigger a spark (described above) to see if coil is the cause. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Chris,
I think we've lost the commodore. Ether he's on vacation or he's out buying more parts to throw at it without testing!
Yes, I wonder how many 10's of thousands of OEM coils are out there laying on their sides without ever having a problem!! Richard, Welcome to CCfan. How about some pictures? Follow the steps in this thread to determine if your re starting problem in fuel or ignition related. Don't forget to look down the carb just after shutdown looking for fuel dripping. At this point, I suspect a drip that's flooding the engine. Next time out, you can also try advancing the throttle almost al the way. This will allow more air into the engine and overcomes the flooding condition caused by the drip and in most cases confirm a fuel problem. |
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phillipsrj
Newbie Joined: October-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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The coil works when it is cold but when it is hot it does not. I found that one of the poles of the ballast resistor was broken ( when installed it was turned too far and broke the connection to the resistor, not very noticeable unless you removed it) and I am in the process of replacing it. This could be the Hot coil problem?
Thanks much for all the help! Commodore Bob |
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Commodore Bob.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Why are you thanking us for the help you've refused to accept?
some people you just can't reach |
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phillipsrj
Newbie Joined: October-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Because I was told about the Ballast resistor that I would have never known about. The OLM load of the coil that I had was too high 6 instead of 3 and the oil filled coil instead of an epoxy filled coil.
Thank you all Commodore Bob |
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Commodore Bob.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bob,
This is the first time we've heard that you have a VOM and have done some testing. I'm glad to hear that. Fill us in after you install the new ballast resistor. |
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Moody Blue
Groupie Joined: July-24-2015 Location: indianapolis,In Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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Thank you for the welcome. And the thoughts. Diagnostic time is slim with the weather turning. She is close to going into winter storage. I've been attempting to post pics. Will get some up soon.
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phillipsrj
Newbie Joined: October-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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I have the exact same problem. I have electronic ignition conversion that was done before I purchased the boat. I am replacing the ballast resistor that I think was defective because one of the poles looked cracked off and a new epoxy coil from Jegs that is 12V 3 ohm to see if that will fix the problem before I take it to the Doctor>
Commodore Bob |
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Commodore Bob.
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Moody Blue
Groupie Joined: July-24-2015 Location: indianapolis,In Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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Here are a couple of pics of my '72 Martinique. She's new to me this summer and I haven't had time to get to know her. Two days ago, with my hot start issue, I immediately raised the engine cover and removed the flame arrester for cooling. In 5 minutes, 10 tops, she fired with one throttle pump on the Holley. Now thinking that heat needs to be removed from the engine compartment. Realized that the blower should be doing this but found no intake hose connected to the blower. Put one on today and took it straight to the engine compartment. Unfortunately she is out of the water now but I'm anxious to see if this helps/ cures the no hot start. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Richard,
Thanks for the pictures. The boat looks great and I certainly hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it. Since you stated the boat is new to you, I assume the PO did the work on it? Was a stringer replacement needed? If not, how is their condition? Fill us in. If you haven't already, submit some text and pictures for the diary section. Heat is not a factor in your no start problem. On most boats, ventilation blowers weren't even used until around the late 60's. Their intent is to vent any possible fuel vapor to prevent a potential explosion. Keep it mind there are plenty of engines out there that start under hotter conditions. A good example would be one out in the hot sun in the desert. Did you have a chance to go through the suggested.troubleshooting before you laid it up for the winter? Please do before guessing and just throwing parts at it. BTW, also keep in mind you should not pull anything from the aft lifting ring ESPECIALLY tubes! |
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