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temperature climbing at higher RPMs

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WLM 1986 View Drop Down
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    Posted: June-14-2012 at 4:18am
My Boat is a 1985 SN2001 with the PCM 351. I just replaced my raw water pump and thermostat because water was coming out the weep hole in the pump and the bearing was shot.The temperature would also gradually climb at higher rpm. Last week after the repair while running at higher RPM I was getting climbing temperatures still. The old thermostat was a 140 degree and the replacement was a 160 degree at the recommendation of the Ski DIM technician due to the fact the boat is run in fresh water. My temp gauge used to always stay steady at around 160 now it is running about 180 to 185 on the gauge, This seems normal I guess because the thermostat was 20 degrees hotter and maybe the gauge is 20 off or maybe the sending unit I really don't Know. Anyhow I seem to have good water flow at the strainer and no air leaks there. I'm wondering if the circulation pump could be the culprit even though it's not leaking or making noise of any sort. The boat was run in salt water by the previous owner and I'm wondering if anyone has seen circulating pump vanes deteriorate causing overheating. Any info would be much appreciated before I throw more parts at it. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-14-2012 at 8:39am
very doubtful because you still are getting a good supply of cool water from the rwp, but your temps are pretty normal and i would probably go back to the 140 thermostat, and it will with the 140 normally run in the 160 range
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reftech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-14-2012 at 11:18am
I had the same issue after going with the 160 tstat in my SN.I switched back to the 140 tstat and the motor now runs around 160..I'd advise putting a 140 back in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-14-2012 at 11:25am
Originally posted by WLM 1986 WLM 1986 wrote:

the replacement was a 160 degree at the recommendation of the Ski DIM technician due to the fact the boat is run in fresh water.


I wonder if they meant fresh water cooled? As in closed cooling system?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncle-buck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2012 at 1:01am
Was having the same issue a few years ago and bought a 143 degree PCM thermostat from Skidim. Tested it on the stove with a pot of hot water and thermometer before installing. It actually opened at 160 instead of 143.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WLM 1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 2:48am
Thanks for all the input guys, sorry it took so long to reply back I didn't have my computer working. And to answer BuffaloBFN I'm pretty sure the Ski Dim guy knew the boat was raw water cooled because I was buying a raw water pump in the same order, but thanks for wanting to clarify. So I have a new thermostat on the way now and I even ordered a Sherwood Strainer for the boat, The old one was an off brand and was in questionable condition even though I could not find any leaks. I'm not sure that I was completely clear on the first post about the temperature climbing. I usually Wakeboard behind the boat and we run about 2,200 rpm and 22mph, At this rpm the temp gauge stays steady as i would expect right around 185 F or so. But when we are Slalom skiing the RPM is 3200 to 3400 and the temperature keeps climbing like the cooling system can't keep up. I know my raw water pump is good as well as all the plumbing on the way to it. I'm pretty sure the circulation pump is moving enough water because I can see the hose coming off it expand when the RPM rises, I also had that hose tear last week and checked the flow when I was putting the new hose on. So I guess my question is could old manifolds and risers possibly be plugged up enough to slow waterflow out of the engine and not let enough fresh water in? I have checked them with the IR heat sensor gun and they aren't much hotter than the thermostat housing, but are a little hot to the touch. They are basically the last piece in the cooling system that is old and that I haven't replaced yet since owning the boat. Again thanks to everyone who takes time to read and answer my posts, It's a big help. I have been reading these forums since I have had the boat and most my questions are just answered by reading previous posts. Now that I have delt with quite a few problems on this boat I am hoping I can pass on some knowledge to other people with the same boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 89Martinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 2:56am
Originally posted by uncle-buck uncle-buck wrote:

Was having the same issue a few years ago and bought a 143 degree PCM thermostat from Skidim. Tested it on the stove with a pot of hot water and thermometer before installing. It actually opened at 160 instead of 143.


same here. well sorta. in our Martinique when its warming up the temp gets to just over 160 and then goes down to 140 and then creeps up to 150 and remains.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 8:43am
Originally posted by WLM 1986 WLM 1986 wrote:

And to answer BuffaloBFN I'm pretty sure the Ski Dim guy knew the boat was raw water cooled because I was buying a raw water pump in the same order


Skidim knows more about these boats than I do; I was trying to figure what wires may have gotten crossed.

Both systems use a RWP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 8:45am
Originally posted by 89Martinique 89Martinique wrote:

Originally posted by uncle-buck uncle-buck wrote:

Was having the same issue a few years ago and bought a 143 degree PCM thermostat from Skidim. Tested it on the stove with a pot of hot water and thermometer before installing. It actually opened at 160 instead of 143.


same here. well sorta. in our Martinique when its warming up the temp gets to just over 160 and then goes down to 140 and then creeps up to 150 and remains.


Sounds about right for a 143 stat. It probably goes up a little after a hard run and drops back?

Mine runs between 145 and 165 depending on what I'm asking of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 12:36pm
William, a water hose bulging seems like a little bit of a red flag to me. It could be that it was just old, but it does sound like a possible restriction further down the line. Possibly pieces of an old impeller in the thermostat housing.

Cooling system terminology is a little counter intuitive. When people say "Fresh Water" cooled, they actually mean cooled by a captive coolant. This is maybe a carryover term from salt water boating.

When people say "Raw Water" cooled, they actually mean cooled directly by the lake water which is actually fresh, go figure.

Both systems use a raw water pump however. In the instance of a "fresh water (coolant)" cooled boat, the raw water pump pumps water through a heat exchanger, which is like an automotive radiator, but uses raw water to cool it rather than air.

In a raw water cooled system, the raw water pump cools the motor directly.

One more confusing thing, the part that looks exactly like an automotive "water pump" is called a circulation pump on the marine system. It circulates either coolant or the raw water that the raw water pump has brought up from the lake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WLM 1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 1:10pm
The Ski Dim guy asked if I ran the boat in salt water of fresh water and I just told him the boat was run in fresh water. We may have gotten confused. I agree that they know a lot about these boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WLM 1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 1:41pm
Also the thermostat in the boat is two weeks old and there wasn't any blockage in the housing when I installed it. The hose that was bulging was old but was replaced last weekend. It wasn't really badly bulging just a little when the pump was pushing a lot of water through it. Is it possible that bad manifolds or risers could cause a restriction in the system? I'm still getting plenty of water out the exhaust on both sides and haven't burned up any exhaust hoses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 1:53pm
It's possible that there is some blockage in the manifolds, but it sounds like you're getting plenty of water through them, so not sure on that. It can be possible for them to have internal corrosion, and not cool as well, even though they are flowing water. But, it sounds like they are not getting overly hot either.

The circulation pump is always a possibility as you mentioned above. Although, it doesn't seem like that is commonly the issue in these threads.

Skidim does mention a way to diagnose the circ pump as part of it's overheating troubleshoot:
http://www.skidim.com/Faq_TROUBLESHOOT.asp#RWTS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 2:14pm
That is a good troubleshoot list from skidim..
First and foremost you definitely have an issue that should be addressed. I have a couple times tried to convince myself this was normal behavior or simply a gauge issue and a couple times damaged the engine through overheating.   You are on the right track with the new strainer, if the old one was questionable it could infact pull in a little air under higher rpms. When you are putting it in be sure to check your transmission cooler for blockage, a little seaweed or other debris on the upwind side of that baby will do exactly what you are describing. Personally I like to disconnect the hose from the RWP and back flush that cooler with the garden hose if I suspect an issue. After that be sure all clamps are tight and no hose ends are cracked, again it doesn’t take much of an air leak on the suction side of the rwp to cause an issue at higher rpms.

Assuming none of that helps you, and your rwp is in good shape then I would not discount the circulation pump as a source of trouble. I have had a relatively new one have the impellor loosen up on the shaft and cause the same symptoms and eventually a true overheat. As long as the rwp is working the manifolds will still see water but without the circ pump the engine won’t necessarily see all that it needs.
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WLM 1986 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WLM 1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 4:13pm
I was gonna test the circulation pump the way SkiDim recommended . Anybody know where the engine block drain plug is?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautiqueseventy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2012 at 5:49pm
If you are using a screw driver to tighten the hose clamps then your not getting them tight enough use a 1/4 drive ratchet to tighten then and recheck all clamps fr the pickup to the rwp
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