looks like my riser gaskets are leaking |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | |||
JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: December-28-2014 at 8:56am |
||
Back when I posted pics of my ignition swap someone questioned all the rust streaks coming from the riser gaskets.
The recommendation was to repaint the manifolds and look for fresh signs of leakage. When I was messing with the boat yesterday I noticed some dried water streaks coming from the same area. I'm thinking I need to replace my riser gaskets. Couldn't find any good How-To's. I'm going to drop some 50/50 acetone/trans fluid on the bolts today and attempt to remove them New Year's Day. I have hand, air, and power tools at my disposal. Should I start with hand tools (box wrench or socket)or should I hit the bolts with an impact first (air or electric)? I know I may wind up having to heat the manifolds up. Any tips or suggestions would be great. See below pics for new signs of leakage. |
|||
'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
|
|||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
JP,
There are a couple threads on the subject but pretty basic. The main issue is snapping the bolts off but worse on the manifold to block bolts. Yes on the 50/50 and I'd go by hand with a 6 point socket or box first. Make sure your mating surfaces are flat and obviously clean. I happen to like non hardening Permatex for a gasket compound. |
|||
JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Thanks Pete.
So permatex each side of the gasket prior to installation? I wasn't planning on messing with the manifold. Should I? |
|||
'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
|
|||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
JP,
Just go after the riser gasket problem. Yes on the gasket compound on both sides. I do not recommend silicone. |
|||
SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
J - You might have to clean up the cast iron gasket surfaces. Mine very very pitted, about 1/2 of the wall was gone. I used some emory cloth stapled to an oak board to cut it flat. You can use a file too, but it won't cut very easy.
I would tap out the threads while you have it apart. Anti-sieze compound is always a plus for reassembly. Make sure & position the new gasket so that the lower riser port is blocked. Happy New Year! |
|||
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
|||
phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6151 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
JP, take a smaller hammer and tap lightly on the manifolds where the bolts reside. This will help the penetrating oil get deeper and help loosen up any corrosion in there.
I something like an impact with less torque (small electric) would help to break things loose. A big air impact will just snap the bolts off. Lots of guys like to take a nice file to make sure both surfaces are nice and flat when they go back together. |
|||
Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2957 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
JPass:
What you are doing is close to what I did recently. While skiing at Lake Powell in October, my muffler blew out. 1994 boat (351W) so I figured that the muffler didn't owe me much. While installing the exhaust gear, I noticed the tell-tale leaks on the risers. So I decided to replace the gaskets. I was concerned with bolt extraction, so I applied PB Blaster 2X per day for 3 days. To my surprise, the bolts came right out. Then the fun started. Upon further inspection of the manifolds, I could see where the exhaust manifold bolts were badly corroded and rusted - directly under the riser leak. Can't have that now, can we? So I decided to pull the manifolds and re-work the exhaust system. My problem came with the exhaust manifold bolts. I did the same PB Blaster technique of 2X per day for 3 days. Of the 16 bolts, 12 came out fairly easily. The bolts are 5/16" hex cap bolts. On the 4 stubborn bolts, the corrosion was so bad that the allen key just spun. I used a big Easy-Out and they also came out relatively easy. As for your question regarding air tools, I've had too many bad experiences with bolts breaking due to over-use/misuse of air tools, so I try to exhaust the "hand" method first. The biggest challenge I had was cleaning up the surface on the risers and on the manifolds where the gasket mates-up. I also used Permatex on both sides. I have a question for all you motor-heads: I bought the replacement exhaust manifold bolts from skidim. They appear to be stainless steel. The original bolts were carbon steel. I used a liberal amount of anti-gall / anti-seize during installation, but I'm a little concerned with stainless bolts in a carbon steel block...particularly in a high heat environment. Any thoughts? Good luck. JQ |
|||
Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
|||
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Don't worry they will be fine especially with the anti seize and so would the originals if you used the anti seize. Just check them once in awhile for tightness
|
|||
JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Funny you say that. I wound up going with PB Blaster too. Hit the bolts 3 times the other day and I'll be hitting them again today and tomorrow. I may wait until Sunday to attempt to remove them. Saturday is supposed to be around 80 and I may head out for a run. Glad to hear your bolts came out intact. I hope I'm as lucky. Happy New Year |
|||
'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
|
|||
M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Cross tighten the bolts. I believe the torque is something really low like 24ft-lbs on the risers.
I did not use any gasket sealer on the newer style graphite gaskets FWIW. |
|||
2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
|||
Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2957 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
It was 2 degrees this morning at my place. I doubt that I will head out for a run on Saturday. Cheers! |
|||
Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
|||
SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
My run will be for more beer!
|
|||
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
|||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
What is your concern? |
|||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Rob, I see you have been on site but maybe missed my question? |
|||
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
After breaking some of the bolts on both my '85 and '95 I was able to get them out using a torch and penetrating oil heating the manifold and using vise grips on the remaining part of the bolt. The long ones in the front are the ones that will most likely break. I then replaced them with SS bolts coated with anti seize.
They are a odd length I think they were like 5 1/2" or 6 1/2" so I got the next size up and cut and retreaded. I also ran a tap in the thread holes to clean them up. Now as part of the winterization process I remove them and re-apply a fresh coat of anti seize every year, no more problem. |
|||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
If anyone has problems with the exhaust manifold bolts, cut the heads off, remove the manifold and use a stud removal tool.. Dump the vise grips!! Yes on a penetrating oil but go with the 50/50 acetone/ATF as mentioned here. Forget the PB!!
|
|||
JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
5 of the 8 came out nice and easy. The other 3 (all on the starboard riser) are going to soak another day or so. I still haven't been able to get the exhaust hose off the riser yet. Going to try some heat tomorrow.
|
|||
'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
|
|||
phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6151 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Ohhh common Pete!!! Vice grips are a life saver. Used that method successfully 100s of times.
|
|||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Zach, What would you think of a mechanic removing head studs from a engine block with vise grips? |
|||
SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Would studs work on the risers? Then the threads are external & wouldn't corrode so badly.
|
|||
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
|||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Rob, Without an answer to your concern, I'll try to guess and answer. Electrolysis between dissimilar materials? No, both cast and stainless are carbon steels. High temperatures? Not a problem since stainless steels are the preferred choice even for extreme temperatures. You have nothing to worry about and purchased a premium set of bolts. |
|||
phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6151 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Ehh broken off stuff is different Pete. Clearly the preferred method is a stud removal kit but for as little as I need something like that the cost is high for a quality set.
Can't remember exactly but I am pretty sure all those years ago I did use anti seize on mine when I re assembled them. I just squirted shiny black emeron on them but since they don't leak I left the risers in place. |
|||
JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
OK, so here's where I'm at as of this morning. I got the three remaining bolts out, but snapped each one. They stick up less than a half inch and look pretty corroded. I've begun soaking them, but I think I'm going to have to drill them out and re-tap (which I completely suck at). May even have to remove manifold???
Suggestions? |
|||
'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
|
|||
phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6151 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
If you fail at removing them you'll need to get a kit to heli-coil the threads back into the manifold to save it. Ideal set up for drilling out those would be a drill press but if you are pretty steady you could get it done with a hand drill I guess. I've done it plenty of times.
|
|||
M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Smoke wrench?
|
|||
2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
|||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
JP,
The hardest part of drilling out broken studs is getting the drill centered in the stud. I have a set of transfer punches that will get you close by eye. Even better is to set the manifold up in a mill where you can actually dial indicate the center. Don't drill any larger than the tap drill size. I have been pretty lucky with being able to remove the threaded section of bolt from the hole after drilling and then chasing the threaded hole. If you must use an insert, don't use a "heli-coil. There are plenty of good inserts that you can use a standard size tap and not have to buy heli-coils damn special tap as well as their damn special pricing. |
|||
phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6151 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Pete, those work when you aren't lucky enough to have a McMaster right down the road ( I think you own stock in them ). But, since I have experience like you, I will usually try to drill it down below the thread size and pick all the stuck bolt out to re use the existing threads when possible.
|
|||
baitkiller
Platinum Member Joined: October-11-2011 Location: SW Florida Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
I dunno. Looks like plenty of stud to work with to me. This from a 20 year salt water boat wrench who only worked on corroded, broken stuck crap.
step 1) One really good smack with a hammer. step 2) Fire up the rose bud and get the manifold thread section red hot. step 4) Grab the nub with your Snap On 410 round stock pliers (cause there aint no room for a stud tool) and spin them right out. If you bugger it up and have to drill I suggest using a left hand bit with the manifold super hot. Good tools make for good luck. If I had to pull it off the engine it goes in the dumpster. Time vs $ at that point. |
|||
Jesus was a bare-footer.............
|
|||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Zach, They do ship UPS! |
|||
JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
All I have a propane torch. Will that work? I'm assuming you mean for me to heat up the manifold not the remaining bolt? I don't have the snap on, so my craftsman channel locks will have to do. I have some of those bolt-out tools that I may also use on the remainder of the bolt. I feel they'll bite more than the pliers. What's step 3? What a PIA. I'll be attempting again either Friday or Saturday. |
|||
'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
|
|||
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |