Can I replace a 351 with a 302 in 1993 |
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Pastor Ken Mahan
Newbie Joined: June-03-2015 Location: Delray Beach Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Posted: June-03-2015 at 12:57pm |
I am a pastor who was given a 1993 Ski Nautique with a blown engine. Grateful for the boat yet challenged with the repairs. Can I replace the 351 with a 302? I'm told the 302 is easier to find, easier to maintain and cheaper on gas. Any advice sincerely appreciated! Pastor Ken
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Ken Mahan
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Welcome Pastor!
First thing you need to determine is if the 93' is a Standard, plain, all white & no vinyl on motorbox version or not, as I believe those were right hand rotation, aka bacerds running. |
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Pastor Ken Mahan
Newbie Joined: June-03-2015 Location: Delray Beach Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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I'm told it is a Windsor reverse. Does that answer your question?
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Ken Mahan
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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I think you're better off sticking with the RR 351 Windsor. You won't see a difference in fuel, perhaps even more consumption with a 302 in that "big" of a boat. Plus sticking with a 351 RR you can keep the parts you have, switching to a 302 would mean buying more parts. If what you have is a RR then you must have a scrappy edition? Do you know what's blown on your current engine?
The fact that one suggested maintenance is easier on a 302 worries me. |
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Pastor Ken Mahan
Newbie Joined: June-03-2015 Location: Delray Beach Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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I will find out what they meant by "blown". Thank you for responding.
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Ken Mahan
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DMH
Senior Member Joined: July-25-2014 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 134 |
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Welcome Pastor.
The 93 SN is the first year of all fiberglass construction. May make a nice boat for you. It would be great to see a few photos. |
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Sure, you can do it, but you're going to have a tough time locating a reverse-rotation 302. What is "blown" about the 351? Often when people refer to an engine to be "blown" it turns out to be only repairable problems.
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"Art"
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Pastor Ken Mahan
Newbie Joined: June-03-2015 Location: Delray Beach Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Water came into the oil.
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Ken Mahan
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Pastor Ken Mahan
Newbie Joined: June-03-2015 Location: Delray Beach Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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I do have pictures. I'm trying to figure out how to post here.
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Ken Mahan
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Here is a help thread- link
Water in the engine could be 2 different things depending on where it happened,if the boat was always down by you it could be just gaskets. If it's from an area where it freezes it could be a cracked block. |
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Could have been nothing but an overheated engine. What happens is that for some reason, most often weeds in the intake plumbing or a failed impeller. The exhaust manifolds get heated to higher than boiling temperature, therefore fill up with steam. As the engine cools, the steam condenses and the space where the steam was is replaced by water sucked in via the exhaust system. The water enters the cylinders, then overnight it runs past the rings into the oil.
Or, as Gary said, possible failed intake manifold gasket. Worse, a head gasket, but doubtful. OR, could be a failed exhaust riser or manifold. |
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"Art"
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Smithfamily
Platinum Member Joined: December-26-2007 Location: Orlando, Fl Status: Offline Points: 1602 |
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PKM, was this boat used in salt water? I see you are in Delray beach? I would investigate the repair angle. The boys here can help guide you. Yes to the pictures. Good news with a 93, no wood stringers!! I have a 92, so I have to include that point into my prayers.
Welcome aboard, and good luck with it! The Smith Family |
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Js
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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This is true but if the "blown" is major, a block and the RH parts from your existing engine would be an option. Hopefully it's just exhaust manifold(s). If run in salt, it would be #1 on my list to check. |
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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That's kinda where I was going; diagnose and repair. There are lots of available remanned engines in South Florida. The cranks are no longer directional since the one-piece rear main seal came about. RH cams are almost extinct, but still can be found or custom-ground. I haven't been able to find any RH distributor drive gears, but a complete RH dizzy is available from Mallory. RH starters are no problem.
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"Art"
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KRoundy
Platinum Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: Lake Stevens Status: Offline Points: 1702 |
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Welcome, Ken! I'd like to know who told you this. By 1993 a reverse rotation engine is quite rare. Can you tell us what is on stamped on the id plate on the transmission in your boat? I'd guess you will find it is a PCM 40A. That A means that you have a normal rotation engine, I have a 1993 and all the 1993 guys I've talked to on this site have normal rotation engines. Not that they don't exist, but a RR 1993 is more akin to a unicorn than a horse. |
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Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique
Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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But if it were a scrappy it'd be RR and the BW1:1
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Great point, Kevin. I completely missed that angle. O-76 makes a good point also, in the early days of reduction gears and LH engines, we did make what was referred to as the "scrappy", a plain-Jane boat with a 1:1 transmission and a RH engine. Not many of them out there, but certainly a possibility. The engine model number will tell the whole story. I don't recall when PCM changed their model number system, but I think all the Fords are under the old system. If so, a PL prefix is LH and a PR is RH.
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"Art"
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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BTW, for those who might be interested, on the PCM 1..23 : 1 reduction gear, 40A the "A" stands for "Angle" because the input shaft is at a 5 degree angle to the output shaft.
The 1 : 1 is a 40I (as in capital "I") is for "In-Line." |
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"Art"
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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My boat is actually a Scrappy. I haven't seen too many others though.
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Ah, I'm glad that we cleared that one up! I need to learn to think faster before I jump into these threads. Now you have another option..... Put a LH 351 in it and a 1.23 (IRM40A) transmission. If it was mine, I'd want to stay with the 1 to 1!
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"Art"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I hope we hear from pastor Ken to find out what engine/trans package he has.
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Pete, it's what we referred to as a "scrappy" Ski Nautique. After we went to the reduction gear trannie using LH engines, some diehards (like me) favored building a reduced-cost SN using a 1:1 gear. It was offered with no options, and standard was a 351 RH on a Warner 1:1. That's what he has. (see posts above)
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"Art"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Art,
The OP (pastor Ken) is the one wanting to replace his supposed "blown" engine and why the RH/LH rotation came up. Brian stated he has a scrappy but that was simply a confirmation on a RH with a 1:1 in his boat. I still hope Pastor Ken gets us some more information as well as pictures. |
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Pete, my intent in that post was to explain to you why there was a '93 with a RH engine. Your post previous to that sounded as though you didn't know that the engine rotation has been settled because now there is no doubt that it is a Scrappy.
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"Art"
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Actually, we still don't know if the original poster has a Scrappy. I just pointed out that I had one, to show that they're out there, even if they're somewhat rare.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I was trying to explain that to Art! |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13515 |
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Engine rotation is probably pretty far down the list in repairing a donated boat.
Yes, you can put a 302 in. You could go smaller too but you will need a certain amount of power to do what the boat was intended to do. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Engine rotation may not matter to the pastor but I would imagine that minimizing costs might be. In which case, it would be most cost effective to replace the block and rotating assembly with the equivalent size and rotation as what was there previously, else all of the other parts needed, from oil pan to accessories, starter, distributor, prop, etc etc etc will NOT swap over, and that can get very expensive.
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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OK, I'm kinda slow, but now I get it. I failed to notice that it wasn't the original poster who said he has a scrappy. My bad.
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"Art"
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Pastor Ken Mahan
Newbie Joined: June-03-2015 Location: Delray Beach Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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I uploaded the pictures to my profile.
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Ken Mahan
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