Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Can I replace a 351 with a 302 in 1993
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Can I replace a 351 with a 302 in 1993

 Post Reply Post Reply Page   12>
Author
Pastor Ken Mahan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: June-03-2015
Location: Delray Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pastor Ken Mahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Can I replace a 351 with a 302 in 1993
    Posted: June-03-2015 at 12:57pm
I am a pastor who was given a 1993 Ski Nautique with a blown engine. Grateful for the boat yet challenged with the repairs. Can I replace the 351 with a 302? I'm told the 302 is easier to find, easier to maintain and cheaper on gas. Any advice sincerely appreciated! Pastor Ken
Ken Mahan
Back to Top
quinner View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: October-12-2005
Location: Unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 5828
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2015 at 1:20pm
Welcome Pastor!
First thing you need to determine is if the 93' is a Standard, plain, all white & no vinyl on motorbox version or not, as I believe those were right hand rotation, aka bacerds running.
Back to Top
Pastor Ken Mahan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: June-03-2015
Location: Delray Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pastor Ken Mahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2015 at 1:23pm
I'm told it is a Windsor reverse. Does that answer your question?
Ken Mahan
Back to Top
Orlando76 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: May-21-2013
Location: Mount Dora, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 3108
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2015 at 1:33pm
I think you're better off sticking with the RR 351 Windsor. You won't see a difference in fuel, perhaps even more consumption with a 302 in that "big" of a boat. Plus sticking with a 351 RR you can keep the parts you have, switching to a 302 would mean buying more parts. If what you have is a RR then you must have a scrappy edition? Do you know what's blown on your current engine?

The fact that one suggested maintenance is easier on a 302 worries me.
Back to Top
Pastor Ken Mahan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: June-03-2015
Location: Delray Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pastor Ken Mahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2015 at 1:40pm
I will find out what they meant by "blown". Thank you for responding.
Ken Mahan
Back to Top
DMH View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July-25-2014
Location: Milwaukee
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2015 at 7:02pm
Welcome Pastor.

The 93 SN is the first year of all fiberglass construction. May make a nice boat for you.

It would be great to see a few photos.
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2015 at 8:55pm
Sure, you can do it, but you're going to have a tough time locating a reverse-rotation 302. What is "blown" about the 351? Often when people refer to an engine to be "blown" it turns out to be only repairable problems.
"Art"
Back to Top
Pastor Ken Mahan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: June-03-2015
Location: Delray Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pastor Ken Mahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2015 at 9:31am
Water came into the oil.
Ken Mahan
Back to Top
Pastor Ken Mahan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: June-03-2015
Location: Delray Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pastor Ken Mahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2015 at 9:35am
I do have pictures. I'm trying to figure out how to post here.
Ken Mahan
Back to Top
Gary S View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-30-2006
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 14096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2015 at 10:06am
Here is a help thread- link

Water in the engine could be 2 different things depending on where it happened,if the boat was always down by you it could be just gaskets. If it's from an area where it freezes it could be a cracked block.
69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2015 at 10:53am
Could have been nothing but an overheated engine. What happens is that for some reason, most often weeds in the intake plumbing or a failed impeller. The exhaust manifolds get heated to higher than boiling temperature, therefore fill up with steam. As the engine cools, the steam condenses and the space where the steam was is replaced by water sucked in via the exhaust system. The water enters the cylinders, then overnight it runs past the rings into the oil.
Or, as Gary said, possible failed intake manifold gasket. Worse, a head gasket, but doubtful.
OR, could be a failed exhaust riser or manifold.
"Art"
Back to Top
Smithfamily View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: December-26-2007
Location: Orlando, Fl
Status: Offline
Points: 1602
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smithfamily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2015 at 7:33pm
PKM, was this boat used in salt water? I see you are in Delray beach? I would investigate the repair angle. The boys here can help guide you. Yes to the pictures. Good news with a 93, no wood stringers!! I have a 92, so I have to include that point into my prayers.
Welcome aboard, and good luck with it!
The Smith Family
Js
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41045
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2015 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by ArtCozier ArtCozier wrote:

Sure, you can do it, but you're going to have a tough time locating a reverse-rotation 302.

This is true but if the "blown" is major, a block and the RH parts from your existing engine would be an option.

Hopefully it's just exhaust manifold(s). If run in salt, it would be #1 on my list to check.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2015 at 11:05pm
That's kinda where I was going; diagnose and repair. There are lots of available remanned engines in South Florida. The cranks are no longer directional since the one-piece rear main seal came about. RH cams are almost extinct, but still can be found or custom-ground. I haven't been able to find any RH distributor drive gears, but a complete RH dizzy is available from Mallory. RH starters are no problem.
"Art"
Back to Top
KRoundy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: August-23-2010
Location: Lake Stevens
Status: Offline
Points: 1702
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KRoundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2015 at 1:30am
Originally posted by Pastor Ken Mahan Pastor Ken Mahan wrote:

I'm told it is a Windsor reverse. Does that answer your question?


Welcome, Ken!

I'd like to know who told you this. By 1993 a reverse rotation engine is quite rare. Can you tell us what is on stamped on the id plate on the transmission in your boat? I'd guess you will find it is a PCM 40A. That A means that you have a normal rotation engine, I have a 1993 and all the 1993 guys I've talked to on this site have normal rotation engines. Not that they don't exist, but a RR 1993 is more akin to a unicorn than a horse.

Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique
Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow
Back to Top
Orlando76 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: May-21-2013
Location: Mount Dora, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 3108
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2015 at 9:04am
But if it were a scrappy it'd be RR and the BW1:1
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2015 at 10:14am
Great point, Kevin. I completely missed that angle. O-76 makes a good point also, in the early days of reduction gears and LH engines, we did make what was referred to as the "scrappy", a plain-Jane boat with a 1:1 transmission and a RH engine. Not many of them out there, but certainly a possibility. The engine model number will tell the whole story.   I don't recall when PCM changed their model number system, but I think all the Fords are under the old system. If so, a PL prefix is LH and a PR is RH.
"Art"
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2015 at 10:39am
BTW, for those who might be interested, on the PCM 1..23 : 1 reduction gear, 40A the "A" stands for "Angle" because the input shaft is at a 5 degree angle to the output shaft.

The 1 : 1 is a 40I (as in capital "I") is for "In-Line."
"Art"
Back to Top
Bri892001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-27-2008
Location: Boston MA
Status: Offline
Points: 4947
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2015 at 11:29am
My boat is actually a Scrappy. I haven't seen too many others though.
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2015 at 2:18pm
Ah, I'm glad that we cleared that one up! I need to learn to think faster before I jump into these threads. Now you have another option..... Put a LH 351 in it and a 1.23 (IRM40A) transmission. If it was mine, I'd want to stay with the 1 to 1!
"Art"
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41045
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2015 at 3:03pm
I hope we hear from pastor Ken to find out what engine/trans package he has.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2015 at 3:24pm
Pete, it's what we referred to as a "scrappy" Ski Nautique. After we went to the reduction gear trannie using LH engines, some diehards (like me) favored building a reduced-cost SN using a 1:1 gear. It was offered with no options, and standard was a 351 RH on a Warner 1:1. That's what he has. (see posts above)
"Art"
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41045
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2015 at 4:09pm
Art,
The OP (pastor Ken) is the one wanting to replace his supposed "blown" engine and why the RH/LH rotation came up. Brian stated he has a scrappy but that was simply a confirmation on a RH with a 1:1 in his boat. I still hope Pastor Ken gets us some more information as well as pictures.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2015 at 10:47pm
Pete, my intent in that post was to explain to you why there was a '93 with a RH engine. Your post previous to that sounded as though you didn't know that the engine rotation has been settled because now there is no doubt that it is a Scrappy.
"Art"
Back to Top
Bri892001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-27-2008
Location: Boston MA
Status: Offline
Points: 4947
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2015 at 12:47am
Actually, we still don't know if the original poster has a Scrappy. I just pointed out that I had one, to show that they're out there, even if they're somewhat rare.
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41045
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2015 at 6:54am
Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:

Actually, we still don't know if the original poster has a Scrappy.

I was trying to explain that to Art!


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
Hollywood View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: February-04-2004
Location: Twin Lakes, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 13515
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2015 at 1:09pm
Engine rotation is probably pretty far down the list in repairing a donated boat.

Yes, you can put a 302 in. You could go smaller too but you will need a certain amount of power to do what the boat was intended to do.
Back to Top
TRBenj View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: June-29-2005
Location: NWCT
Status: Offline
Points: 21186
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2015 at 1:19pm
Engine rotation may not matter to the pastor but I would imagine that minimizing costs might be. In which case, it would be most cost effective to replace the block and rotating assembly with the equivalent size and rotation as what was there previously, else all of the other parts needed, from oil pan to accessories, starter, distributor, prop, etc etc etc will NOT swap over, and that can get very expensive.
Back to Top
ArtCozier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: April-25-2012
Location: Orlando FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2015 at 1:22pm
OK, I'm kinda slow, but now I get it. I failed to notice that it wasn't the original poster who said he has a scrappy. My bad.
"Art"
Back to Top
Pastor Ken Mahan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: June-03-2015
Location: Delray Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pastor Ken Mahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2015 at 3:24pm
I uploaded the pictures to my profile.
Ken Mahan
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page   12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2024 | Bagley Productions, LLC