88-93 351W rebuild kit

Len , Oh i see its a 1:1 boat...

Consider rods don't wear out

But what symptom is requiring such invasive measures?

GottaSki: The motor had a bottom end knock and we are unable to determine exactly what the cause is. The motor needs to come apart anyways to fix it, so I may as well freshen it up. It has 1500 hours on it at this point.

KENO: Thanks for the link to that part! Very helpful! As for the clearances, I'm not sure of the specifics but I was looking for a donor block and my research was telling me that I could not use a pre-88 block for a swap. Apparently there were some slight modifications.
As for the wiring harness, I purchased a new one off of Skidim, I am hoping that this will be a plug and play solution.

First, a lower end knock in a Nautique, did you rule out the flywheel damper?
These make a lot of noise on failure and they fail often. At 1,500 hours yours is suspect.
The engine may be just fine.

If your machine shop orders the parts he is responsible for any returns of parts that do not fit. When you machine your crank it may be clean at std size or it may need to be turned down to a new surface, that may be .010, .020 or more undersize and can end up different for crank and rod size.   Same for pistons, you may not need a bore or it may need to be bored .020 30 or 40 oversize. Pistons and rings need to match.   Machine work has to be done before buying any parts.   Most parts are available to the machine shop in 1 day so it is not an issue for them.   Even if parts are $150 more it may be worth it.
You can tell them what parts you choose to run if you are sensitive to brand names.

Most connecting rods can be reused but not always. Many need to be re sized.
If you spun a rod bearing this is absolutely the case. Once a bearing is spun a new rod bearing will not work to fix the problem, the rod needs to be repaired or replaced.
Re sizing rods is about $10 per rod, new eagle rods are about $260 for a set.

I was in a Machine shop and 2 owners showed up at the same time to pick up their engines.
Both were rebuilding Ford 302 engines. One had the shop do everything, his was assembled all tin bolted on, Oil Pan, Timing Cover, Valve Cover gaskets and fully painted ready for install.
The other engine was machined and the guy was picking up all parts to assemble the freshly machined engine.
The assembled engine came with a 1 year warranty.   The non assembled engine had no warranty.
Both guys saw how much the other bill was since they showed up at the same time.
The two bills were only about $100 difference. The one guy was upset.
The shop owner said sorry but you told me you wanted to assemble the engine and wanted me to provide all parts. I gave you a quote and you bought it.

Sometimes a package is cheaper.
Good Luck
Mark

Lens93SNOB wrote: Hi all, I'm doing some research on a which engine rebuild kit to get for my 351W reverse rotation engine. Its a 1993. I know that the block clearances slightly changed after 88 and also I believe it went to a one piece seal. There are sssssoooooo many kits out there and on the off chance that I order the wrong one I thought I would reach out here to see if anyone has a good resource or specific rebuild kit to recommend for that era of block? I'm only doing the bottom end at this point. Am I better off to simply have my current camshaft shaved and re-use it? Also, can anyone tell me why none of these kits seem to come with the piston connecting rods? Sorry for all of the questions!! Thanks!

I think the difference you'll find in the kits over the years is the pistons and not block clearances.

There were some small changes in pistons and compression ratios

Different year kits had different intake manifold gaskets too depending on what type of manifold it had for different fuel systems.

The rear main seal change was in 1983

I'd check over the cam and maybe reuse it as-is making sure the lifters are reused on the same lobes.

No fair mixing up the lifters

An ice cube tray works pretty good for keeping the lifters in the right order. A 16 cube tray is pretty common and easy to find

Since those freeze/casting/core/frost plugs popped, I'd check the block real carefully like Gary said to be sure there aren't any internal cracks too.

Production shops have ovens and Jet Washers, if they plan to do any machining to a block they first run it in the Jet washer so it is clean ready to work on. Some use the ovens which bake the grease and oil so it falls off the block.
They can assemble a small block ford in about an hour and a half or less. With all parts cleaned it does not take long to paint and they do it every day so they have systems that get things done.
I have been out of this business for 15 years now so my cost estimates may be obsolete but I bet if you add 20% to my numbers you would be reallly close.
When I clean parts in my garage for an engine build I know it takes me 5 hours or more to get them ready for install. If I only had a Jet washer in the garage it would save most of that time. My son tried to get me to install a dishwasher in the garage just for this purpose.
It would work but not large enough for a block cleaning.
Crank Grind   $85   I had one done last year
Cylinder Bore and hone $25 per hole, 8 cyl = $200
Cam Brg Install $55 including bearings
Valve Job complete with surfacing $ 450 If your heads have 1500 hours on them this is a no brainer, do it.
Cleaning/Mag check of the block and heads $ 150
Gasket Set and New Rod and Main Bearings Look prices up on Summit.

If your block spun rod bearings you will need the rods or single rod reconditioned. $10 each.
If you have a failed main bearing you will need the main bearing bore line bored back to blue print. $200.
They will offer to deck the block but in reality most blocks are fine and this may not be needed. $100   If you are blueprinting they should square deck the block to get close to blueprint. Makes all 8 pistons have the same deck height which makes for a better engine with all 8 holes having equal compression all else being equal. They may charge as much as $250 for square decking because it will be labor intensive.
Balancing if you choose to balance the engine, add $250. Factory engines were not balanced and most rebuilds are not balanced but if you want it perfect?

With all this said, I always build my engines at home. Silly yes, because I give up the warranty and it takes me much longer than it takes them and I take on all risk of failure but I enjoy the job and enjoy it when they work well. You just need to accept if you have a failure it can mean a total rebuild again because of your mistake.
I think you need a new shop the prices they are asking are high for a bone stock rebuild.

I will also share that there are discounts associated with volume purchasing.
A shop that builds 10 engines per year will pay 35% more for parts than a shop that builds 100 engines per month. So a production shop may offer you the same rebuild at a pretty good discount over the smaller shop.   Reality as it its, sorry if it does not seem right.
This is the same thing that has taken all the corner auto parts stores away and converted them to the big box stores. Larger buys better and eventually the small are getting pushed out.
The government stopped enforcing the pricing laws that are still on the books in the USA about 30 years ago and look what has happened since then to all the Mom and Pop businesses. The law says a vendor is supposed to sell at the same price to all customers but that is not and never will be enforced because the large stores have clout be it a machine shop, liquor store, grocery store or phamacy.
All these businesses used to be family owned, now with rare exception they are corporate owned and part of a very large buying group.
Do some shopping with your eyes wide open before deciding what to do.
Some large rebuilders offer very competitive rebuilt engines with warranty.
Jasper Engine is Nationwide, ATK is nationwide, S&J in Spokane covers the Western States.
AER in Texas is a huge rebuilder, Liberty Engines in New York.   There more out there you just have to look.   All of these would get you a fully rebuilt engine for less than your quotes.

I have toured Jasper Engines and AER both are very serious rebuilders that do thousands of engines per month.
Your mention of cleaning. At Jasper in Indiana they dip your engine and parts in Molten Salt, the hot salt strips everything off the engine parts in a couple minutes, grease, oil, paint, antifreeze all gone and the parts go down the line for rebuild 100% clean.   Things are faster in large shops and that saves you money.   Just an example of how a job can take you 5 hours and them very little time.
Rusted drain plugs that can take you or I a long time to get out they heat with a blow torch and hit it with wax and they come right out with an impact. No delay.
The large automated Boring and Honing machines now can grab your block and take it off the floor and bore and hone it automatically freeing up the shop labor for other work.
A friend shop now has a CNC machine that can take the engine, Bore Hone, deck and Line bore if needed automatically. For race engines it even can bore the lifter bores and finish by printing his shop logo on the block so everyone who sees it knows it is his engine.
Most large shops also run the engine on a SIM machine before shipping it to you. This machine connects to the crankshaft and spins the engine 400 RPM. While on the SIM test they check compression and Oil Pressure in a simulated running situation.   Since they have tested thousands and thousands of these engines the AMPs necessary to spin the engine are all recorded. If your engine takes more AMPs to turn it the engine is rejected for tear down to find out why.   These things help the shop know they are shipping a good product.
The SIM machine is the best thing next to an actual dyno run. Sim tests are included in the price and are next to free.   A Dyno run might be $250 more if desired.

All shops are not equal you need to do some shopping to see what is available.

Hope this at least helps you know what to ask when you start shopping.
Mark

Sorry, I could not find a way to share the notes with less words.
I know that industry and it seemed important to share for a guy that has never had to navigate that world. Good Point on the P heads Ken.   

MrMcD mentioned it in the looong post a little while back on 9/23 but Len hasn't been back

Well............I like your plan

It sounds like you thought about all the choices and costs associated with them and came up with what works for you.