It should be true

I surely cannot come up with a 100% explanation of the afterlife, even though my beliefs say and spell out what happens,
Kueka, is it passion or does she have the gift of the talk circuit, like Billy Grahem, or that young guy on the tube Sunday Morning.

davee40 wrote: there are christians that have come from many faiths such as catholosism,budism,islamic.scientology.and so on n so on,how much harder was it for these people to beliseve as opposed to someone born here in the states,they heard the truth and they believed through faith and they will be rewarded for it

The same could be said about any religion. Certainly there are Christians who change faith too.

davee40 wrote: the one truth is that we have the bible and yes by faith you have to believe that jesus was born and did die for us and he was the son of god . there are christians that have come from many faiths such as catholosism,budism,islamic.scientology.and so on n so on,how much harder was it for these people to beliseve as opposed to someone born here in the states,they heard the truth and they believed through faith and they will be rewarded for it ,and no eric you dont pick where you go when you die,at that point the life you lead and what you believed will make the differance,there are a lot of people sitting in the pews of churches who will be surprised when they meet god

hopefully a pleasant surprise !!

Eric,

Bigfoot, no I don't think there is a bigfoot. As far as UFO's I suppose they could be real if parallel universes exist. I haven't really formed an opinion on Parallel Universes. I would like to think that earth isn't the only place where life exists but at this point there isn't much reason to believe otherwise. Hopefully, as we continue to learn more, parallel universes can either be proved or disproved. This is another bonus of not being religious centric. You are free to explore, and imagine things the bible doesn't allow.   Freethought

this damn topic made me question my religion, and beliefs, I feel as long as your a good person and good to others you dont have to pop in every Sunday and things will naturally happen..they dont pick and choose at the gates, i believe there is an afterlife and thats where you make your choice or the choice is made for you? i dont know. but i dont think we just fade away, thats where i draw the line and hope what i was taught growing up is the way it will be, but Damn, God has to be a busy man, or does he hand off to others to handle things for him. i wont write versus or scriptures from the bible, but i use the condensed version, the 10 commandments, whether that happened up on Mt Sinai I dont know, but its what i live by

phospher wrote: [quote] If you grew up in India you would be Hindu and you would believe in Hinduism just as strong as you believe in Christianity.

Probably. However, you also might be Islamic, Christian, Sikh, Buddhist, Jewish or practice Jainism. India is a very religiously tolerant country, and Hinduism is by its very nature one of the the more tolerant of religions.

BKH

One point I do take from your discussion is when in India your a Hindu, when in jabbabaland you blow your self up for the sake of a reward of 72 Virgins, when in Jewish land you dont believe in Jesus, when in Hollywood you belive in re-incarnation....thats what has me baffled, I was raised a Catholic but, the Priests blew that one literally, not a good role model i would say, very wealthy the religion itself based on monetary gain? i get the envelopes on time every month, 10%? guess again.
I have a sense of some brainwashing in the religous system, Koresh, Jimmy Jones, Jehovah Witnesses, and to the likes. but I still think there is a higher power which most would refer to as a God, there are 6 billion people on this earth which evolved from 2? it kinda makes sense but then again it doesnt. I know there were dinasours, cavemen, fossils prove that. how did it all start? but on the other side of the coin, we did walk on all fours at one time and evolved to what we are today, what controls those actions of progression

I think this has been a good discussion. I know I've enjoyed it and there have been a lot of valid points brought up.

Hi Phil, The piece of scripture you are referring to in Luke 19 is a part of a larger story that shows people how God is calling us to join His Kingdom to make a better world. The verse you reference is an illustration and not meant to be taken literally. Sort of like when people say in jest "I could just kill you." The same with the Proverb you mention. The Proverbs are similar to other ancient writings common to middle east wisdom literature. They are pithy sayings that are not meant to be taken literally but to make a point. The point in this Proverb being: a child raised without discipline is spoiled. The point is not to beat your child with rods. Jesus indeed said that He came to fulfill the law; and he did. The point of the law (the old covenant) was to give people a way to live. It was practical, the ten commandments of Deuteronomy are the summary of the law. Some of those laws are archaic and even barbaric sounding. But it is unfair for us and our understanding and our morality to go backwards and lay that morality at the feet of an entirely different culture. Jesus fulfilled the law by getting people beyond the legalism of it. In other words Jesus doesn't want us to do good because it would break the law to not do good; Jesus actually wants us to know we are loved and then to love, in so doing we fulfill the original purpose of the law which was to "Love the Lord with all your heart." Jesus fulfilled that by then saying "and love your neighbor as yourself." Scripture should not be used one verse at a time to prove or disprove. Again, I will say that the totality of scripture, including the New Testament, points to love. The cumulative teachings of Jesus all point to how much God loves us. Phil, for me, it is always about love, forgiveness, mercy, justice. These are common themes of Scripture, and I am incapable of applying those qualities in my relationships with others without God. That being said, I don't want in any way to imply you are not a good person, that you don't act with kindness. I'm just saying for me, that to live in peace, to experience kindness, to be forgiven, and to be forgiving . . . it's God. It really is good talking you, thanks for your time, Chuck

Not taking the bible literally didn't always use to be the case and there are still a lot of fundamentalist Christians who take the bible literally. It wasn't until modern times when Christians started interpreting how they see fit to better conform to society. Polls have suggested that more than a third of Christians believe the bible literally. You are a moderate Christian. Which is a relaxation of the standards of adherence to ancient taboos and superstitions. Moderate Christians have agreed not to read the bible literally, and not read certain sections of it at all, and then they come away with a much more progressive, and tolerant version of Christianity. They just pay attention to Jesus when he's sermonizing on the Mount, and claim that is the true Christianity. That's not the true Christianity. It's a selective reading of certain aspects of Christianity. If your deciding what is to be taken literal and what is not, how do you know that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" is suppose to be taken literally? Is there an asterisk by it on the bottom of the page or something? The truthful answer would be you don't. Your just making a best guess here. How do you know that the Qur'an isn't the real book? This is the problem that you all don't seem to get. It's nothing more than shear chance you are Christian. If you grew up in India you would be Hindu and you would believe in Hinduism just as strong as you believe in Christianity. How do you know your right? You are only Christian because that is the prodominent religion in this country. You are so convinced of this stuff that you can't see past it, or you can and you choose not to. It's close minded thinking.


Chuck, I also enjoy the conversation and your time.

Also, there must be other atheists on this forum who are reading this. You guys should speak up. I realize that it's taboo to question religion and that you probably are staying out so that you don't ruin any relationships but this stuff goes on and on if someone doesn't call a spade a spade.

Like Hollywood, I have enjoyed most of the discussion. Phosper and Okie Boarder have made this a very intelligent discussion.

phospher wrote: quinner wrote: eric lavine wrote: Phil, I didnt read thru so i do have to ask, what do you think happens once we die? 72 Virgins Quinner, You guys probably think that's crazy right? But it's no different than many of the claims Christianity makes.

This was a good point by Phospher, how do Christians view this? Further more, what is the viewpoint one religion has on the other. Obviously everyone views their religion as THE religion....right?

Not putting anyone down, just saying how wood has changed my perspective on boat ownership.

So Wood, Wood you own a Wood boat if it Wood preform like the 88?

HW, The Dart has changed my views and the responsibilities of boat ownership.

First came masturbation then actual sex, how can you have an opinion with out a "Before and After"

The Dart has raised my level of Boating Zen to another level only enjoyed by us that "Have A Woody"

Tim, you know what I mean with that statement.

Plastic will be easier to maintain and give less trouble if love , care and understanding are not followed.

This is not the case with wood, ignore her and soon she will have a spot in the landfill or better yet end up with an owner that loves and cares.

Which life do you want to live.....Full Tilt Boogie/ There is no Tommorrow

                               OR
I had best take care of what has been given to me as a steward here on earth.........

Unlike the others who are pi$$ed because you're obviously forcing them to read this (sarcasm), I applaud this discussion. For one of the most heated topics known, this has remained very civilized.