Water Test ends with overheating! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: May-14-2008 at 10:22am |
Jamie, You say it acts flooded. Why do you think this? Here's a short thread on hard starting: hard starting
When warm, your choke butterfly should be in the open position. Take a look with the flame arrestor off. Don't look down the carb with it off and try to start it at the same time. You may end up missing eyebrows! Don't go and start messing with adjustments at this time. Yes you will need a timing light to check it. It is realativly easy. |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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So, it will crank but not fire...until several tries and then seems to be flooded. It acts flooded. some threads mention crab adjustments and sticking butterflys.. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jamie, I went back through the thread but can't find it - must be in another thread about the starting problem! When you say it won't start, do you mean it won't turn over (crank) or will crank and not fire? I'm confused again because you mention a good battery and a 14 amp charge,. (BTW, after about 10 min. of running, the 14 should taper to almost nothing without anything turned on) |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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I will. Yet, it has never knocked or missed.. or run on. Still the timing? How do I adjust the timing with out a light --- easy? It just wont start. Shuts down fine, then on restart needs lots of gas to make it try to start. |
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64 Skier
Senior Member Joined: February-08-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 415 |
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Put the Thermostat in the boat and then adjust the engine timing so you can turn it off. The wrong timing will cause an engine to run hot as well as knock and "run on" after you turn it off.
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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So, ran the boat with out t stat and it ran good and cool, probably too cool... couldnt get it above 140 no matter what. The t stat will go in when it arrives from skidim. However, I still have a starting up problem. It will start fine, run fine but dont ever turn it off! Whats the deal on it not wanting to restart after running for awhile it seems like it is flooded. My battery is good and charged and my amps show 14 on the gauge. Carb issues? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Yup, same thing. |
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adamt
Gold Member Joined: July-18-2007 Location: Orlando, FL Status: Offline Points: 927 |
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Pete,
Just wondering, why do some people refer to a 142 degree t-stat and others refer to a 143. Are these the same thing? |
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-Adam
1973 Skier |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jamie,
Are you going to replace the 1" oil cooler with the 1&1/4"? The "mechanic" that told you to run it without the T stat, is he the same guy who told you; "needs all the water it can get to stay cool.." I'm trying to figure out where some of this mis information is coming from? Tell me more about him. Go with Tim's figure of 160 with the 142 T stat. |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Thanks for the insight. What should a 351 commander engine temp be during normal operation? Mine goes from 140 to 160 w out a t stat and 180 to 190 w 160 t stat. What is the difference of the commander engine to others.. do they like it hot? No worries... I have a 142 t stat in the mail. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I think you have missed the whole point on the reason for the T stat. Think of it this way. It's not there to keep it COOL but rather to keep the engine HOT. More important is it regulates the temperature. You have a T stat in you house to keep the temp at one spot no matter what the outside temp is. Same thing. In the late 50's, the marinizers of the marine engine started putting on the T stats. Yes, before that time there weren't any! Without the T stat, due to the extreme temp swings, tolerances of these engines needed to be quite loose. This isn't a ideal when looking for HP in a engine. If the T stat wasn't needed, it wouldn't be on your engine. Where are you getting the idea that your engine "needs all the water it can get to stay cool.."? Jamie, You can do what you want but many here have given you the best advice possible. Go back and read the posts again. Did you bother to read this thread? "running without thermostats" |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Well here is the latest... It appears to be a combination of several things: Old cracked intake hoses reducing down to a 1 inch trans cooler then onto a old 160 t stat. I replaced the hoses and removed the t stat. Got a 142 in the mail from Skidim. Still not sold on the reason why to use a t stat in an older 351 engine that needs all the water it can get to stay cool... in my case I have a smaller diameter trans cooler. How many folks out there run w out t stats? Did a dry garage test and it ran good. Thanks again for all the wonderful input!!! Off to lake test for the finally! God Speed. |
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Barracuda
Moderator Group Joined: November-17-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 998 |
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Thanks for the correction Tim. I've got a severe case of the DUH's going lately.. -Brad |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jamie, It sure sounds like a PO replaced the trans cooler with a 1" instead of the correct 1&1/4". This is putting a restriction on water flow and with the reducer couplings/connections it adds to the number of points that are potential leaks. When you ran the bucket test, you pulled the 1&1/4" off the RWP and put it in the bucket. This bypassed the problem area with the restrictions and the potential leaks (air). This should be the correct cooler: trans cooler I suggest you get the new cooler. Your idea of trying to clamp a 1&1/4" hose on the 1" barb on the cooler won't work. You will never get it clamped down that far. Running without a T stat is not a good idea. There is a complete thread on it that just popped up again. I'm sorry to here that you have heard from marine "mechanics" to run without one. If they said that, I personally wouldn't take a lawnmower to any of them!! At least you didn't refer to them as "technicians"!!! "running without thermostats" |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Still thinking running with out t stat! |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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I assume my coolant system should be intake to trans cooler to RWP. Its just my ID's of my system are not the same. |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Exactly!
My intake through hull ID is 1and1/4 ------ that hose is connected to the trans cooler ID 1inch. I have a hoses coupling reducer for the 4 inches of hose that come off the trans cooler. I think I am just going to get a single piece of 1 and 1/4 and make it really tight on the 1 inch ID connections. Any tips or similar set ups? Is this common? LAST GREAT COMMENT! I was told by several marine mechanics to not even use a thermostat! Any thoughts on running w out a s tat! I am such a rookie. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jamie,
Somethings not correct or I'm very confused! You have 1&1/4" ID hose somehow "spliced" to a trans cooler that has hose barbs (the male ends for the hose) made for 1" ID hose?? Post some pictures of these "splices" or try describing them again. Off hand, it sounds like potential spots to suck air. |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Well, I A160 in the boat. GOing to get the 142! I have a basic question about my hoses. from the thru hull intake the hose size is 1 and 1/4 to the Trans coller which is 1inch diam then out trans cooler to my raw water pump which is 1 inch and a 1/4 so my splices mentioned are to accomodate the different sizes. Is this common or wrong? It seems like it would be restricting the flow! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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A 160 'stat will cause the same problem (and have him running at 180+). He needs a 142, which would keep the temp at 160. |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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You can get a 142 degree marine t stat at NAPA.
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Tim D
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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I found the t stat, and it is a rusty one... and I am sure the original of over 1,000hrs.
just wondering which one to buy? skidim has several for the PCM 351 engine. Any ideas? Thanks gents., jamie |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Thanks again to all. I performed a bucket test with large hose from bottom of RWP directly to Big tub of water and the thing had enormous suction. I could only use a storage tub container about 1/2 full (anyone know how much they hold?) it sucked that thing dry in less than 30 seconds. I put my hand over the hose and it had very strong suction. SO, I think we are leaning to the thermostat. I cant seem to find it? Is it the small gizmo with a wire coming out of it near the circulating pump... on that note, could it be the circ pump? |
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Barracuda
Moderator Group Joined: November-17-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 998 |
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Jamie, lots of good advice on here already.
I suggest you perform a basic tune up which includes setting the timing properly with a timing light. Then adjust your idle if it is still high. As for the overheating: After replacing the splices go ahead and replace the thermostat with one that is recommended for your applications. Probably a 160 degree t-stat. the stat that is in there is probably of a higher operating temperature- too hot. Good luck and be sure to report back with your progress so this can be used as a reference for others. -Brad |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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I am off to test the bucket ! Thanks!! Jamie |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Why?? None of my boats have ever had strainers. Never had a issue but of coarse I don't boat in swamps ether! |
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azeus17
Gold Member Joined: August-19-2007 Location: Grand Rapids, M Status: Offline Points: 576 |
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When I did the bucket test, I disconnected the hose going from the through hull pick up to the inline strainer and put it in a bucket and sucked the water out. Just put the bucket right next to the engine. Water was all gone in less than 15 sec.
Sounds like you do not have a in line strainer, so you may want to disconnect the hose that runs from the trans cooler to the RWP and place that directly in the bucket and suck the water out. There should be plenty of suction. Don't use the weak, restrictive garden hose. |
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Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jamie, You have mentioned "splices" in hoses. I think it may be time to replace the hoses back to original and then start over with trouble shooting. You state that they "don't leak" but they may be sucking air.
Greg (buffalo) mentioned a strainer. He is reffering to a inline basket type that was used on later year boats. I feel to are referring to the one on the bottom of the boat - correct? There isn't a tranmission strainer. You may be looking at the trans cooler. |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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THIS JUST IN FROM THE PO:
I have never done a tune up on the boat so new plug, wires and a cap problem would not hurt. (3 YEARS) Also the boat has always ran at about 180 and I never had any problem. The pulley that I put on the was the same size as the one that came off of it the only the I had to do was drill out the bolt holes a little. ANY IDEAS? |
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wakesurfer
Senior Member Joined: April-22-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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I have searched the forum and cant find a visual - picture of a 5 gal bucket test. I put a piece of a garden hose in a bucket - primed the water pump and hoses first... then put the hose inside another hose which ran to the RWP - the water hose diameter is smaller than the other intake hoses. I started up the boat then inspected the water in the bucket.... It was now going down remotely fast in aprox 34 to 40 seconds it had only drained the bucket down a few inches with LOTS more to go, I felt the hose and it was very slight suchion.... could it be my set up is too restricting? So, that said: Can someone send me some details on how to rule our your RWP? Cheers... Learning ALLOt. jamie need more beer... |
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