expanded foam in hull question |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | ||
captpete
Newbie Joined: May-11-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 31 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: June-09-2008 at 8:42pm |
|
O.K. it is done. Here is what I did. After removing the foam I saved it and cut it into 12" blocks after drying it. Each block was labeled as to its location in the hull. After triple layering the hull with glass and up the sides 6" I retrofit the foam blocks with a 1x6 set into it at the proper depth. these were each glassed into place. Using 1/2" BC plywood I fit the new floor boards (resin coated) and screwed them into place using ss screws. These boards were then glassed in place with two layers of cloth and a third layer along the seams where the sides meet the floor. As a famous Indian philosopher once said, "Elephants can fornicate on it" Next task before a new carpet is going to be cleaning the engine and dressing it up - paint chrome, ss lines, etc. - I did mention it runs good; 60lb. oil pressure, good compression and with 824 hours on it I really do not think it need anything else. By the way, how easy is it to install electronic ignition? And, you can look for me at the reunion in Lake George in Sept. - I should have the boat done by then!
Peter |
||
jdkenyon
Senior Member Joined: March-16-2007 Location: Twin Falls, ID Status: Offline Points: 111 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I must be lucky, our boat insurance only added $100 to the yearly cost.
|
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
HW, your rocks float up in the windy city? i did see a show on Cleveland's river catching fire and it also said a river up in Chicago caught fire too from being so polluted
|
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What happens if you hit a floating rock? $2k for boat insurance??? WOW! We're right in line with the $2-300 per year. |
||
backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
WOW!!!!! I've never heard of boat insurance being that expensive. I have full coverage on my boat 100K/300K and pay a little under $350/yr. That's in FL. I paid about the same in WI so I know it isn't just here. You definitely gotta shop around. |
||
When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
||
GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Ditto on the insurance.
Most 'other' skiboats only have a few strips of 2x4 looking strips of foam strapped to the hull with fglass and also under the gunnel, and they meet level-flotation rules. I believe full-foam under the floor is a massive amout of flotation, and that entire volume is not critical to make the boat recoverable, nor level. |
||
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
||
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Agreed 100%. Ive never had an accident on the water either, nor has anyone in my family- but boat insurance is truly the definition of "cheap insurance". You can get a safe amount of liability insurance (I consider 100k/300k a minumum) for $200-300/yr by going through a company that knows ski boats. Larger companies who dont know better see the size vs. horsepower and jack up the rates. Try Global Marine (endorsed by USA Waterski), Ski Safe, or BoatUS. |
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
if someone can sue, they will no matter who it is.
|
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The "sue happy" people usually aren't the ones in your boat but that does happen as well. The 2K sounds like you were talking to the wrong company. I'm just urging you to look into it again. |
||
80 Ski-Tique
Newbie Joined: November-21-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 38 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Well it is the difference of me going to the lake or not. For whatever reason my insurance on my one boat is close to 2K a year. I totally understand what you guys are saying but first of all I don't bring sue happy people on my boat and second we have never had an accident on the water, and yes I know that doesn't mean I won't but like I said it unfortunately is the difference of me using my boat or staying at home and looking at it. In over 60 years of my immediate family's boating we have fortunately never had any accident to speak of. Mainly because we were taught all the navigational rules and laws and codes of conduct before we were allowed to drive. If everyone was brought up this way we wouldn't have any accidents to speak of.
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
80, I'll back up the other comments regarding having insurance. It's really not smart. You can be the most carefull driver in the world but it's the other guy you need to worry about. In or court system, bad things do happen and it may not be your fault! At least get the min. liability. Tack it on to a homeowners or auto policy. My 3 boats cost me about $350 a year for the liability.
|
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
what if you hit a submerged rock and the sue happy passenger goes through the window? it happens....i have to put the phrase in, I myself have been boating for 20 some years and went into a dead stop from 52mph last year on a sand bar, the bodies kept going, no major injuries..couple of bumps and bruises, couldve been worse lol
|
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Has anyone tested the flotation of a boat filled with pool noodles under the floor? Anyone want to go first? |
||
80 Ski-Tique
Newbie Joined: November-21-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 38 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I can't speak for all aluminum john boats but ours had foam under the bench seats. I know what your saying but I am capable of rewiring and rebuilding motor and trans. if needed be. I could always send the trans. to you if that was the case I had insurance on it when I bought it but the insurance premiums after two or three years were more than I paid for the boat when I bought it. It's a risk I decided to take, and I am very experienced on the water and very unlikely to hurt someone from carelessness. If my skier gets hit with anything it most likely going to be the idiots on jet ski's and I do the best I can to avoid that.
|
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
what does the USCG allow for aluminum rowboats or Kayaks?
80, you dont want a boat after it sinks, maybe just the bare hull, my smart-ass buddy bought a sunk Caliari, and bragged what a deal he got, it is all Europeon wiring, and i dont care where you cut a wire on the boat, water snuck up the wires and corroded every single one of them....who's laughing now? 80 btw, get some collision or liability insurance on the boat in case you chop off a skiers leg...... |
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
THE least time and money is to throw a double-armfull of pool noodles under the new floor. They wont trap water, let air circuilate and would make a flooded boat level and recoverable, it doesn't have to float like a Bwhaler cut in half. |
||
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
||
David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I hear you, just a bit of dry humor (or lack thereof) on my part.
|
||
80 Ski-Tique
Newbie Joined: November-21-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 38 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Now, for a lake boat, if no foam and it sinks. No big deal, just swim to shore.[/QUOTE] I don't know about you but it's a big deal to me if my boat is sitting on bottom of the lake in 60' of water. I could recover it if it was floating on the surface but not on the bottom. Maybe that's just me since I don't have insurance on mine. |
||
lancef
Newbie Joined: April-01-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
My posting history does not suggest a lot of knowledge but I do have some input for you as I am in the middle of rebuilding my 83 natique. I am going to post about it when I get a chance but have been way to busy working on it to post anything.
Anyways, I used the (2) 5 gallon bucket 4lb foam kit from uscomposites.com several weeks ago and would deffinetly have to recommend using the foam. It amazed me how strong it was after it cured. You can jump up and down anywhere on the foam (I am 200lbs.) and nothing gives or budges (w/out fiberglass or wood on top.) It also sticks to the walls and stringers better than any glue so it seems that it kind of holds everything together nicely. Now getting a smooth surface was definetly not fun. I used a grinder, belt sander and a 8" polisher/sander and the stuff gets EVERYWHERE. Basicaly if you are willing to spend the money and do the time, I think you will not regret it. FYI: I ended up needing 2 cans of Great Stuff in the end to fill a few low spots as the 10 gallons was just enough (Would have been more than enough if pooored a little better.) |
||
David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes, I would foam due to the reasons stated early on in this thread. I agree, the foam will dam the water, but only small amounts of water at the boundary layer. If the stringers are well glassed, this would not be much of an issue. Also, I find it hard to believe that one could make the under floor area totally water tight over the long run. I also understand you point about an airtight space, but I doubt the USCG allows such a concept.
Now, lets look at it another way, if you do not foam, water can get in, stay in and theoretically fill up the cavity. Slooshing around at will. Not a pretty thought. If there is foam in the cavity, only a minor amount of water can get in. Just a spure of the moment thought. Now, for a lake boat, if no foam and it sinks. No big deal, just swim to shore. |
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
so David, would you use it or not? remember the new foams wont soak foam but will dam the water in the areas you don want it too.
the boats will also float with air tight pockets and if they do leak it will be hours, |
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
All this talk about foam or not to foam. Either way, I think the boat will survive. Basically, i agree that the foam is not a structural element other than supporting the original fiberglass floor. But if you plywood, that is a moot point. So, to foam or not to foam boils down to a few questions:
1. Do you want the floation? 2. Do you want the sound deadening qaulities? Yes, the bottom of the hull will flex a bit, but the fiberglass laminate can handle it, so no worries there. And to all those that are worried about water logged foam again...modern foam does NOT SOAK UP WATER! Now, let's open up another can of worms. The wood stringers are not really structural either and the boat will stay together with out them....but, the engine might end up against the transom. Evidence of this is that when is the last time you heard of boat breaking in half or coming apart due to rotten stringers? And...if you remove the gelcoat from the fiberglass laminate, you can shine a light through it no problem. So, if you scratch off the gelcoat on the keel and then can see daylight, not necessarily a big deal. |
||
BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I'm with Andy on this. Our lake is down and the black forest is just under the surface in places. The lake has been so much quieter this holiday w/e than normal, the talk on the radio is be super careful...if you go out, and I've said before that I think the pumpkin would be a more than adequate anchor.
Not that I'm a fatalist?!!? LOL |
||
80 Ski-Tique
Newbie Joined: November-21-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 38 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes, which I thought about doing but if the boat sinks, it's going all the way to the bottom. It also takes the coast guard rating away too. I wanted to use the space under my floor for a ski locker but after adding ribbing back in there wouldn't be enough room anyways. So I figured the best thing and least time and money consuming thing to do was just refoam it.
|
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
so if you dont use the foam, can you deviate from the masterplan and add more ribbing to ensure the floor doesnt "oil can"?, with this information it is possible to re-inforce the floors as if no foam was needed?
|
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Besides...it's original?!!?
|
||
BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Pete, when the patch is finished you can drop the whole crane in there...it'll bounce!
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Alright, I'll give in and go along with the foam being part of the engineering CC did!!
I remember I had a friend with a 14' Shell Lake with I think a 60 outboard on it. This was the very early days of glass. The hull bottom was so thin that on real sunny days you could see through it to the lake bottom. Talk about flexing when going over rough water! It was actually scary! |
||
80 Ski-Tique
Newbie Joined: November-21-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 38 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I think with the box that small and using 3/4 ply it would be more dificult to tell, but build the same box and use 1/4" ply and even a blind man could tell. The less strength you have to begin with, the more difference you can tell with the foam. A Correct Craft is not underbuilt, don't get me wrong, but it is not overbuilt by any stretch of the imagination. That's why they are comparitivily light to many boats their size. I am sure there are better ways to do it but who am I to argue with nautical engineers. I have the floor out of mine right now and I must say the hull is not very stiff without the foam in there, the boat even with the soggy foam felt more solid than it does now. I even took it out once over the winter without the foam and floor in it, granted the floor adds a lot of structure also but mine had separated all the way around anyways, and the boat flexed and twisted so much that I made my mind up then to put the foam back and glass the floor in better than it was. Just my two cents.
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Greg, I did see that Eric mentioned jumping up and down on the boxes but felt he was talking about doing it in the water. Eric - In the water? I don't think you could tell. a 2' X 3' piece of 3/4 ply is pretty stiff.
Now, as far as the drop test, I think we could use the pumpkin patch for it. What do you think? I'll pitch in for the crane! |
||
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |