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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Posted: August-23-2011 at 12:24am |
Glad you get her running right! When are us Carolina boys gonna hook up? Kids start back to school Thursday and fall is right on it's tails.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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PROBLEM SOLVED! Vibration gone!
Culprit was a motor mount. Old man neighbor of mine taught me a trick. If you take a piece of wood (in this case a 1x4 about 3' long) put your ear to the flat side of the wood and the other end on various locations with the motor running, you can hear all of the harmonics. This is really amazing. With the gps, top speed 47mph and smooth as a top! |
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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when you inspected the plugs did you only use the boat at the "problematic" rpm range?
Eric, maybe it's too lean? |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Greg, I'm with you on the alignment. It's awful hard to feel what perfect .000 is with the shaft in nothing but the strut/cutlass, but I feel like I've had it there about all 6 times that I've done it now.
I did just take it for a run. It seems as though my increase in voltage to the coil and distributor has exaggerated the problem and you do definitely feel it when the boat is in nuetral and messing around with giving it throttle. I took the neighbor for his opinion and made him sit in back. He says you can hear it missing, but it is a real fine miss. As I previously mentioned, the plugs all looked similar and still look new. I replaced the wires and plugs together 3 wks ago(and I have been over and over the firing order). Unless it's a cap or rotor, I'm stumped. There is nothing visually abnormal with the cap or rotor, but I will replace with new here shortly. |
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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The strut is your fixed point. Disconnect the coupler and loosen the log boot so the coupler end moves freely. Then prop the coupler end of the shaft and adjust that until the shaft is centered in the cutlass bearing front and back. Then align the engine to that.
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Plugs are clean. I can't tell that any really look any different.
I've aligned this thing about 6 times now and I feel like it's pretty good. What exactly do you mean by starting with the strut? I did put a new 2piece cutlass bearing in. I've been messing with changing, or adding a new wire from the ign switch back to the coil. Holy crap is it misserable outside......Once I cool off, I'm going to back her down in the water and give it another try. |
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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It's tough to say from here...just tried your cell. OK, the plugs don't look too bad, but what do they look like? Clean, brown, black? Does 1 or 2 look different than the majority? To me, an engine vibe feels 'heavier' than a drive vibration if that helps. Did you start at the strut when you did the alignment? |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Greg did we miss the obvious......you, if anyone should know
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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politicallycorrect
Senior Member Joined: May-19-2011 Location: vermont Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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I've been following this thread for some time now and let me tell you, you have done a great job on restoring this boat! I'm slowly grinding out my stringers. I know my boat will never look as good as yours,but,I use your project as a reference to my 72 southwind. I'm new to inboards and I'm no trans expert either. I've read that you had water in your transmission. Seems to me water in the trans could kill a bearing like main bearings in an engine with water in the oil. The way your log was wallered out seems like the tailshaft bearing(if that is what it is called in a marine trans) had a lot of stress on it for some time. If it was a truck I'd say it sounds like either a u-joint, a pinion bearing, or a tailshaft bearing. Seems like you've replaced or repaired every part of the rotating assemblies fore and aft of the trans. Just an outsiders opinion. Happy hunting, can't wait to hear that 2000 rpm's are smooth as the work you've put in to that beauty.
Scott |
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Skin grows back...fiberglass doesn't!!
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1424 |
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Kirk, a tip Eric has is to go through the starter hole and release the damper plate bots off just a small amount so it centers on the trans, then bolt back up, apologies if you have done this already but if not may be worth a shot as it only cost you time to do.
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Greg, plugs really don't look bad. I'm guessing I just haven't run it long enough cause they still look new.
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Plugs?
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Well, whether it solves the problem or not, I'm going to replace the wire going to the coil from the ign. switch. The meter only shows 6.5 volts on the + side of the coil........must be a "resistor wire". I thought that most everything went to "ballast resistors" in the mid 70's.
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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What's the chances I may actually have an ignition problem? If you look back, you'll note that the boat had a HEI from a car in it when I bought it. I replaced it with a Pertronix and followed the installation instructions and messed with the hacked up wiring and finally got it to work. (No ballast resistor) I'm wondering if I might have a resistor wire feeding the coil. I'll bring home the meter tomorrow and check out the voltage. Since the boat is running great above 2200rpm, could it have something to do with the mechanical advance in the distributor kicking in at about that rpm?
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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New coupler with new shaft and I put it in the lathe together before installing. Runout of .001. The coupler on the transmission I checked with a dial indicator and see .002. I am convinced that it is not comming from the shaft or the prop. I believe that the old shaft and coupler being out .020 was not even being felt now that I've put the new shaft and prop on. That new prop was worth about 4mph on the top end and it was worth the money but it hasn't solved my problem.
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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did you have both faces of the coupler checked?
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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I'll be checking them out good. With my luck, anything I did out on the dock would be a sure way for me to drop something expensive in the lake.
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Maybe, maybe not. There are a few variables. Give them a quick look and note where they came from. I think a miss will amplify out to the prop. This may not be your problem, but it's an easy check. And don't get frustrated until you've rebuilt the top end on the dock. |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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I put new plugs and wires in on the weekend of the 4th of July. After the runs I put on her this wknd., I probably should check them and will one night this week. If I have something goofy going on here, wouldn't it also show up at WOT?
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Have you taken a look at your spark plugs? Burning evenly?
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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New shaft in and eventually put the new prop on. Still have the vibration at low rpm. It almost feels like it's in the motor and is amplified under a load or in gear. Could the motor mounts be worn out? It's a slight vibration, and it's all under about 2200 rpm. Could it come from the transmission? There is backlash in the transmission. (Feels just like the backlash in a rearend housing, however, more.) If I had to guess, I would say it feels like about .020. I'm running out of ideas.
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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I went ahead and ordered a new ACME 1598 13x14. I'm going to install the new shaft and try her out first with the old 13x15 and see how things go and then give it a shot with the new ACME. I'm beyond frustrated but I hope the end is near.
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21190 |
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Minimizing strut to prop clearance will put less stress on the shaft and cutless bearing (possibly reducing wear and/or vibration). It also has a positive effect on the boat's performance... namely it will raise the nose ever so slightly at speed.
The original 13x15 Federal doesnt clear the hull by much- Id say less we had less than 1/2" on ours. The keel was pretty beat up aft of the strut because of it- the rudder port and surrounding glass took a pretty good beating. Luckily, the aft rake on the blades of more modern props like the Acmes improve hull clearance, even with the shorter shaft. We had 1.5" cut off, so we're at 39.5" now. Prop to hull clearance is around 3/4" with a 13" diameter prop. |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Ordered the shaft today from Elbert's. He said the factory spec showed 41" length shaft. Mine was 41.5". I ordered it of course, before reading your post and told him the 41" would be fine. What effect would shortening it do? It seemed awfull close to the hull as it was and at some point it has hit the hull. Or, I should say something has hit the hull in that area because I had to repair it.
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21190 |
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Kirk, while youre ordering a new shaft, dial in the length. You want to shoot for about 1/2" clearance between the prop hub and strut. We had quite a bit more than that on our BFN, and had the shaft cut down to correct it.
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Ok.......removed the shaft and chucked her up in the lathe. Looks like it's out about 14thousandths. I am really more interested in the combined runout with the coupler installed. The best I could get the coupler in the chuck I had a 5thou variance, but I need reversible jaws to get it any better. Nonetheless, I put the shaft in with the key and set screws and saw variance of 26thous. I messed with it a little while and got it down to 20thous. How do any of these boats with the factory coupler, w/ keyway & set screws, not vibrate?
So.....looks like I'm ordering an ARE double taper. One day and hopefully in the near future, I'm going to be done spending money on this project. |
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Kirk,
Before you go to the trouble and expence of a shaft replacement, I suggest checking it. It can be done in the boat. Using a dial indicator is best. It's mentioned in the alignment video that's in the "new" section of the forums. If it is out (.003" max), the the ARE double taper shaft is the way to go. |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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I still have a slight vibration in gear at rpms below 2500.
I pulled the prop and then lapped it on making sure the key was not causing it to ride off the taper. This helped, but still have a vibration......................I'm thinking shaft at this point. I am going to buy a new one anyway. Any recommendations on which one to buy and who to buy it from? Should I put in another new cutlass bearing while I'm at it? It probably has less than 15 hrs. on it. |
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Good to hear it. Hope its all smooth sailing from here!
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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the grinch
Senior Member Joined: November-25-2008 Location: Lexington, NC Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Motor is back in and her problems were........................OMC oil pan sump holds 9qts! I had 6.5 qts. total including the remote oil filter. This is why the big drop in oil pressure after a WOT pass. Good thing I pulled her, no harm was done to the bearings, but found something else......3 lobes on the camshaft wiped out. This was the camshaft and lifters in the motor when I purchased it and was supposed to be new. I didn't even look at it last year when I took the block to the machine shop. So, I have a new cam and lifters and she's broke in after this weekend and plenty strong.
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It takes a big hole to bury an elephant.
Kirk Miller [URL=http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/register.asp?FID=7]KIRKS79/URL] |
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