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pics of floor rot |
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91nautique 
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Joined: May-26-2005 Status: Offline Points: 104 |
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 Topic: pics of floor rotPosted: April-08-2009 at 11:04pm |
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HW, My boat was 8yrs old when when it was parked up due to total structural failure and we had to take out the entire floor. The boat was falling apart -loose seat base, loose lag bolts, huge cracks in the decks at the gunnel joins and in the main traffic area's and spider cracks had started to appear in the hull --- it was a mess.... The stringer's were ok (but soaked) As the decks and foam work that made up most of the structural integrity of the boat had totally failed the boat was literally falling apart, And it would be no different if it had composite stringers. Water entered (and was trapped by the foam) the foam and untreated timber deck supports disintegrated, and the glass on top of the foam collapsed leaving the hull with no support apart from the soaked stringers. So yes- I would say there is heaps of 93 + CC's out there that are set to make the next "pumpkin thread" What are the "strong" composite stringers in the 93 + boats made out of? |
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WakeSlayer
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Posted: April-08-2009 at 7:45pm |
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Me too. Will know soon enough.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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TRBenj
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Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21183 |
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Posted: April-08-2009 at 7:12pm |
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Mike, I dont think anyone ever advocated that you foam the exhaust cavities... CC stopped doing that around 1972. All boats newer than that had open cavities that drained into the bilge (like my Tique). Hopefully the fact that you sealed up those cavities wont come back to bite you in the a$$ so soon! |
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Wacko
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Posted: April-08-2009 at 6:29pm |
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Wacko, yes.[/QUOTE] Really, thats interesting. Do you have any photos of how you did it? |
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WakeSlayer
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Posted: April-08-2009 at 6:25pm |
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Oh. Wacko, yes. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Hollywood
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Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13514 |
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Posted: April-08-2009 at 6:10pm |
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I didn't mean poured foam, heck forget the foam!
Who is going to dig up wet foam with composite stringers? And when, that is my question. |
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Wacko
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Posted: April-08-2009 at 6:10pm |
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Did you really use pool noodles? I have seen that posted before but thought it was a joke?
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WakeSlayer
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Posted: April-08-2009 at 6:06pm |
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No foam here. I must say that I am glad for that fact as I had a pretty big leak last night that I am pretty certain is the exhaust thru hull. I would assume that the foam would have slowed and hidden this problem for a good amount of time. I would be seriously pissed. Pool noodles.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Hollywood
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Posted: April-08-2009 at 4:45pm |
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I haven't seen anyone tear the floor out of a post - '93 yet. We are seeing soft stringer '92s but I wonder how long before someone decides to tear off their soft floor/wet foam while having strong, composite stringers. I suppose you could use some of the other boats (Slayers - Tim's Tique) as examples since they refoamed and floored w/o doing stringers, but I'm just wondering how long before foam alone causes someone to do this with a newer boat with no threat of stringer damage. |
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81nautique
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Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5779 |
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Posted: April-04-2009 at 2:30pm |
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That's why I sold the boat I had in the 80's, to much incriminating evidence! I've been hiding out in a little farm town in the midwest ever since 
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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eric lavine
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Posted: April-04-2009 at 1:09pm |
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Greg, Im not harping on the foam thing, I know you will take care of your boat after its by-pass.....you wouldnt believe that a damper would have history to it, but when i get a damper to match it up with a transmission...you get these rust lines across them, sometimes near the bottem, sometimes in the middle, but what that is a line indicating where the water sat for a period of time and it leaves its mark
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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BuffaloBFN
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Posted: April-04-2009 at 12:44pm |
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The first piece I threw in the trash can went right through the bottom of the can and chipped the concrete floor?!!? |
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eric lavine
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Posted: April-04-2009 at 12:23pm |
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Kevin I have a pair of floaties with your name on them lol
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
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Posted: April-04-2009 at 11:53am |
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I think alot of the ambiance here is that when your in trouble guy's are worrying more about thier 20k Correct Craft going to the bottem and not about the safety of people on board, it is about the safety of the people on the boat and then yourself then the boat. practice safety first and avoid the situations that may make the boat sink. the boat is replaceable, especially if you have good insurance and you happen to have a set of Pings on board with you. A boat that has been underwater is never the same.
I use this boat as an example, it took 20 years to rot, not 2, i would bet if you did some DNA samples of the water in there it would come back 1992. it gets in there and there is no way for it to exit, It really is a design flaw...and were trying to hash out a better way to keep you floating in regard to the boats integrity |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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WakeSlayer
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Posted: April-03-2009 at 7:58pm |
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^^ I say no way ^^
Damp yes, soaked was SUPER heavy. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Hollywood
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Posted: April-03-2009 at 7:03pm |
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Next person to tear up their floor, take a large chunk of wet foam and toss it in the water. Will it still float?
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eric lavine
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Posted: April-03-2009 at 4:41pm |
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add the weight from the wet foam together, ballast, plus the people. it really throws the boat off and changes the boats performance great for wakeboarding but not a nice clean wake for slalom.
i really think it does create unexplainable stress cracks up here in the colder states. |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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WakeSlayer
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Posted: April-03-2009 at 4:24pm |
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Interesting point about the weight of wet foam sinking faster than no foam. The entire starboard side to the helm was sopping in mine. The port side from the exhaust back was also completely soaked. I am guesstimating I removed an additional 400lbs from the boat in water weight. Certainly the dry bow foam and the port side fore would float the boat, but I feel it was drier than it could have been. What if the boat was completely soaked front to back and side to side? It would have to weigh what 1000-1200lbs? nearly the weight of the boat. That thing would rocket to the bottom. I live on a very small lake which greatly affected my decision to not foam. If I was on a big lake with cruisers and huge waves, I would have re-foamed and done tight compartments.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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eric lavine
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Posted: April-03-2009 at 1:15pm |
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no, regulations from Dewey Cheatum and Howe,
if you flip on its side you rely on air pressure trapped in the hull, if you stuff the boat it will stay upright but you have to deal with the water, it wont enter air tight compartments. thus these drain holes will always allow the water to exit. I see hundreds of people in row boats and im not concerned about there safety on my lake, they are non foamed...they have thier place along side with ski-boats, now if i see a rowboat out on Lake Erie fishing for perch.....God be with them. I guess, well all have good points, I really would be more worried skiing side by side on the same lake with guys with 1500 lbs of ballast and a full crew.....now that would be a good cause |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Hollywood
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Posted: April-03-2009 at 12:38pm |
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Liability from what? NMMA flotation foam regulations?
If the drains are at the bottom of the compartment (near the hull, boat floating upright), when it flips they are now at the top and the air will go right out. If the drains are at the top (near the floor), they will fill with water once you swamp and won't be any air in them once it flips. I think the pool noodles are a great solution for you plywood floor fans/anti foam pourers. Also, I really like the extra bulkheads that JoeinNY and BuffaloBFN did. This way Greg has separate poured foam compartments, the ones along the sides and upper bow will never get any holes drilled into the floor above. They should theoretically remain dry forever. |
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eric lavine
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Posted: April-03-2009 at 11:52am |
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in the thinking machine on the way to work, i thought maybe it was contradictory to say these boats dont need foam or maybe even irresponsible of me, its like saying because it is a river boat you dont need life preservers. you do need flotation, i just look at it as injecting a good set of lungs with the cancer gene...its eventually going to surface and cause problems.
Foam does provide flotation but also creates other problems such as heavier boats going over capacities, rot, evades structural integrity, and i really think when the trapped water freezes it creates stress cracks from expansion. Even with composite stringers water is going to get in there and cause other problems long term. but if information is provided you can decide for your self. I will always foam a customers boat because of liabilty but if i was to do my own boat or to other non foamed boats in the past, i would make air tight compartments with drains at the bottem of each so if you did happen to stuff the boat the air tight compartments would provide flotation for an extended period until help arrives....boats are replaceable and rebuildable. |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
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Posted: April-03-2009 at 10:39am |
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just a note, a heavier foamed soaked boat will go down quicker because of its weight lol
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
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Posted: April-03-2009 at 10:36am |
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it had air trapped in the hull, and 2 of them didnt make it and the third was wishing the same for his fate Now............what kind of moron idiots go that far out in 14 foot waves, im not going to say anymore, no need too. Lake Erie is evil, I check the weather before i go, i make sure i have all the safety equipment, i make sure the engine is running correctly, and the boat i go in doesnt have foam, it has an experienced person running the boat...not me i open the beers....you get the point
Kevin these are river, lake boats, im the first one to raise a hand on safety, but, safety before you go out boating, it is almost impossible to sink one of these boats and if you do it is something that the operater is doing from ignorance |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Hollywood
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Posted: April-02-2009 at 3:10pm |
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Don't hurt yourself! 
Not true. I don't think anyone has torn up there floor just because of wet foam. I'd say almost all the foamed boats from the 70s and 80s have some degree of wet foam. Now, you could say the foam traps and holds the water then it wicks through the polyester resin and rots the stringers. With the current method of glassing in the stringers, this is no longer a concern.
I certainly wouldn't be counting on trapped air to save you. All I want to know is that my boat (if I were rebuilding the stringers/floor) would not be a statistic.
Yeah, well I'm not sure how well I'd be swimming after an accident with cut up legs for the driver and concussions for the observers. Remember those guys in Florida that just vanished? The sole survivor was the one who clung onto the flipped, floating boat. I primarily don't ski on the Gulf of Mexico, but since I don't know for certain the future of my boat and who will be using it, it would be comforting to know it won't be going down wherever it might flip. Our 1988 Ski Nautique could be k.o.'s next boat in Aruba, cruising the rivers in Australia or dodging barge traffic on the California delta. We still have the original stringers (probably rotting), foam (probably wet) and floor (solid) in our boat! |
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BuffaloBFN
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Posted: April-02-2009 at 12:09pm |
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The battery box drain is an issue...even back into the 80's. This was my solution. I used a real bulkhead fitting and hose that may outlast me installed with 5200. There's a matching fitting where it enters the bilge. Also note the heavy duty vent hose. Some may say it's overkill, but it won't dry rot in the near future!
FWIW-I found a few areas like the battery drain, vent hoses, and the 'socket' that the removable floor section fits into that were easy paths for water to get inside. My thoughts are simply to keep the water out! 
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Riley
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Posted: April-02-2009 at 11:42am |
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"Hey my boat actually flipped over due to nose diving a big wave while being towed..." I've seen pictures of that while boats were being towed behind house boats on Lake Powell. Must be aweful to look back an see. |
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: April-02-2009 at 11:28am |
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Martin,
It's not a swamping that will do the damage because in most cases you will get the water out in a short period of time. It's really the day to day and year to year where water will get into the wood. Of course, when a stringer job is needed, we do a job that the factory never even dreamed of!! CPES, epoxy resin and care to seal all the wood makes it a non hygroscopic 40 plus year system. |
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Skinut
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Posted: April-02-2009 at 10:48am |
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Hey Newoldboat,
I went through the same exact issue with my 90, the guys at SN must have been around that year must have forgot about workmanship because it seems more common with the 90's SN than the 80's. Anyway the drain hose that goes from your battery box should be removed and closed up. That is a real lousey connection and water enters through that opening. You will see when you remove the battery box that the foam will be very wet under the box. As for the wood damage - dry to hold off taking all the braces off until you have the boat properly level and supported. THe foam is not only for floatation but mainly for support. As for the water getting back in...well limit the swamping and put a good cover on it. UScomposites can help with all the supplies that you need. After you get it done it will be better than when it came off the line. |
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"A bad day on the water is better than a good day at work"
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martin 74
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Posted: April-02-2009 at 2:55am |
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I store my Martinique in the garage, but last year two larger boats one after another nearly swamped us on the river while we were just about stopped yielding a few feet away from a green marker. We took on a lot of water but we turned on the bilge pump for about 20 min to pump it out. Could my foam still be wet? I thought parking in the sun for a while would dry it out.
Thanks |
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eric lavine
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Posted: April-01-2009 at 11:00pm |
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I sit here and sit here and sit here and think and think and think and think.
on this site I have heard of about 50 boats that needed gutted because of the foam rot. and on the other side of the coin, how many boats have been stuffed or flipped, if they flip they are not going down because of the air trapped? i would be more afraid of the boat breaking in half when rotted then it sinking, I really really dont think sinking is even a statistic.....I'll take my chances with no foam, plus i swim pretty good |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Hollywood wrote:
two weeks later my boat was ready to use after drying out and cleaning everything. insurance paid the bill which was in the 2k range... For the engine the mechanic remove all the plugs added some oil and turned the enginoe until it puke all the water out of the cylinders....