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What motor do I have?

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    Posted: September-17-2010 at 1:41pm
I would replace the fuel line with CG approved line. All line today is rubber or high pressure with FI. The rubber line will install easier, neater and above all will help the vapor lock problems. The vibrations with the metal become brittle at the flanges and they can will crack and leak in time.For the life of me if they would have put the double flange as for brakes that problem would go away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-16-2010 at 2:28am
Patrick, Here is a link for the J tubes. This is the only place I have found that sells them. You'll need 2.

j tubes

This place will most, if not all parts you might need. Take a look around on the site. DIM is not a sponsor anymore, but has been in the past, and still gives a discount to CCF members. Our sponsors have pretty much all the other parts, but the J tubes are hard to find elsewhere.

As far as that brass piece in the fuel line, it's probably a hose connector barb to put 2 pieces of hose together. That's not a big deal but should have clamps on it if it doesn't.


Hold old is the fuel line? It will have a year stamped on it if it is proper fuel line. Mine was from 78 on mine, so original until last summer. It was starting to crack, on the outside, but I didn't want any problems, so I replaced all of it with new 2009 marine fuel line.

Re skinning the interior can be pretty pricey. I had a custom 3 tone job done on mine by an upholsterer friend and while I wasn't charged for labor ( a lot of which I helped) the marine vinyl alone is not cheap. I also redid all of the interior, and engineered a new rear facing love seat bench for the observer seat on mine. Sticking to the original seat styles will make the upholstery job cost a lot less.


Tom

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2010 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by storm34 storm34 wrote:


Fuel system:
I would guess you'd want to have the marina do the fuel line. Since this is a pretty important thing to get right, you might want to have them do it? Just my $.02

I don't know Chris, maybe it was a marina who did the "slip some rubber tubing over the cut off old steel line and hope it holds without even a barbed fitting trick"!!!


Could be Pete! I went to look at a boat last fall at a Correct Craft dealership in that area (I wont name) and it was a basket case. He started it up and water started pouring out the riser onto the floor! I had driven 2.5 hrs to look at it because he said it was in great shape and completely solid. Not the case, and they were asking good $ for a beat to sh*7 boat!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2010 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by storm34 storm34 wrote:


Fuel system:
I would guess you'd want to have the marina do the fuel line. Since this is a pretty important thing to get right, you might want to have them do it? Just my $.02

I don't know Chris, maybe it was a marina who did the "slip some rubber tubing over the cut off old steel line and hope it holds without even a barbed fitting trick"!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2010 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by pmgIA pmgIA wrote:

Rough crowd,


Patrick, not a rough crowd just looking out for you and trying to inform (or be informed) and save folks some $!

With some help, I think you could probably tackle some of these projects yourself. You seem like you are interested enough in these boats to want to take on some minor projects and are willing to learn. Here are my thoughts on your last post.

Fuel system:
I would guess you'd want to have the marina do the fuel line. Since this is a pretty important thing to get right, you might want to have them do it? Just my $.02

Gel:
Your boat does feel very solid for the brief time I spent in it, and she seems to run great. As far as the gel goes, you can wetsand and buff the deck to make it look like new. I didn't notice any stress cracks of spider webs on your deck so there is no need to re-gel. If you do the hull, you might have to get rid of those vinyl graphics and go back to original    Check out this thread on repainting the graphics on these 70's boats. It was very informative and turned out great! graphics update

When you clean it up this fall, give toilet bowl cleaner a shot. I've had good luck with it on our hull to take away the yellow tint.

Motor:
As far as the motor goes, our 88 had 1,900 hrs and ran perfect. I sold the boat to ryan (form&function) and he planned on doing an overhaul. Once he got into it and did a compression check he couldn't justify spending the money because it was so strong. Point being, just because it has high hours doesn't mean it needs a rebuild. They can still be very strong. Do a compression check and see what she reads. Unless you have other reasons for a rebuild I don't see a reason to.

If you have the marina rebuild the motor, your looking at 4,500 bucks (what I was quoted in DM). I have a buddy who had a 318 chrysler done here in town for 1,000 with a new block, painted but he had to put the motor back in himself. Something you can be capable of with info on this site.   

Interior:
Your carpet looks great, I would think you can get the seat skins from Christine's and have someone put them on locally. Or, if you want you can probably do them yourself.   I started my backseat build last night and was happy with the result thus far. I've got probably 2 hours in it and maybe another 2 before I'm done. The only other thing would be to make some speaker boxes, another project thats been tackled on the site.

Sorry for the novel, but I think you've got a great little boat and think you can do a bunch of work to it yourself with the help of the guys here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pmgIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2010 at 5:43am
Rough crowd, glad I didn't/don't do the work. Seriously, I appreciate the feedback. I have two children, their friends and my wife on the boat often. I want it to be safe, safe to 2011 standards, not 1979.

So I'm understanding that I need to order the "add-on" J tubes and a metal fuel line. The dealer is a little over an hour away, they will be doing the winterization and some other work I may want done at the end of the season, but I would like to get the fuel line and j plugs in now. Does anyone have a place to order these? and/or part numbers?

This post has caused me to look over some other parts of the boat, namely the fuel system. In the photo attached you might notice a metal connector in the fuel line as it comes down the tank. Is this normal? I assume not, so I would like to put in a new fuel line from the tank to the separator (I think that is where that line goes?) I also seek a part number and place to order that line as well. Then being myself, I ask, "Why not replace all the fuel lines?"

This motor is strong, strong enough that last week at the mini, two people commented on how well it sounded and started and ran. It has 1700 hours on the motor, I'm thinking about pulling it this winter and having someone overhaul it, paint it and make it like new? Cost? Suggestions? I am also thinking about having the topsides and side walls gelcoated, am I crazy? Anyone know the cost of that? I am not one to take on these projects. The floor is solid, it was redone in 2005 and carpeted. The only other thing todo is the vinyl. Any costs on that? Should I send the seats off to someone that does SN?

Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2010 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Yes Chris, and the plastic manifold elbow reminds me of an Indmar.


Bare in mind PCM used plastic elbows as well for many years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote behindpropeller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2010 at 5:41pm
Surprised Billy hasn't jumped on this

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2010 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:

a little gas leak in your boat will eventually cause a thermal event...

And spoken directly from the person who recently had to use his fire extinguisher!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2010 at 5:14pm
I can think of a few reasons.. the first being that rubber can wear through from rubbing something.. so can the metal line but it will experience less movement than a rubber line and will generally stay where you put it without being dependent on the operators zip tie skills..

Two, should you experience a fire under your engine compartment or even an extreme engine overheat, you would not want that line to melt and add fuel (pressurized fuel even) to the situation. There is typically a rubber line that is marine rated that runs from the tanks to the filter on these boats and it is both extra thick and rated at higher temps than typical fuel hose. It might be a viable alternative for the fuel pump to the carb but it is ungodly expensive compared to the metal, doesnt look as good, and still needs to be zip tied.

Lastly the methods of attachement for the metal vs rubber are more reliable.. once you get a good seal you pretty much keep it.

Some of us have used stainless braided hoses basically to be pretty.. they take care of some of these issues when compared to standard rubber fuel lines.. particularily the abrasion and end treatment failure modes and the good lines are typically higher temp rated rubber.. but not to the melting point of copper, steel, or aluminum.

All this is less important in cars where a little gas leak on the road rarely if ever does damage.. a little gas leak in your boat will eventually cause a thermal event...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2010 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by storm34 storm34 wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't the fuel line from the filter to the carb be a metal line? (steel?)

If so, what is the reasoning behind this? I've always seen them metal and wondered what would make them safer.


Originally posted by GottaSki GottaSki wrote:

That rubber fuel line abortion is an film-at-eleven accident waiting to happen.


Chris,
Yes, it should be metal or a USCG hose assembly approved for the high pressure side of the pump to the carb.
I spotted the abortion of a fuel line too but didn't mention anything since it already had been discussed by Tom.

The reason behind it? It half assed shade tree mechanics who can't bend or flare steel line!!!!

Yes it is s BIG safety factor especially the "slip some rubber tubing over the cut off old steel line and hope it holds without even a barbed fitting trick"!!! It's the pressure factor that's the big problem. Even though the rubber line may be USCG rated for gas, it's for the suction side from the tank to the pump.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2010 at 5:01pm
Yes Chris, and the plastic manifold elbow reminds me of an Indmar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2010 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by pmgIA pmgIA wrote:





Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't the fuel line from the filter to the carb be a metal line? (steel?)

If so, what is the reasoning behind this? I've always seen them metal and wondered what would make them safer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SS 201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2010 at 3:25pm
One way you can tell the 302 from the 351 the intake manifold is wider on the 351.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-12-2010 at 8:35pm
Dave,
Yes that would be the HP for the 351.

Here's the Escort in my 77. No HP markings but I feel it's the norm for the 302 engine and about 220.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-12-2010 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by pmgIA pmgIA wrote:

The top of the engine says 250 on it, if that helps? So it IS a FORD 351 for sure? Escort is the company that converted it to a marine engine? and Escort is now part of PCM? For sure?

Yes for sure. Unless the tag was removed from another engine and put on yours, it should be exactly as I posted above. Get a picture of the entire engine and post it if you want.


Guys....I have a 351 RR Ford Escort conversion in my boat. It also had stickers on the valve covers that said "250" or "255" (can't remember....and engine has since been painted). Does that refer to horsepower? One would think so, but, it seemed most of these 351's had 240 HP.

Just curious if anybody can clarify that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SS 201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-12-2010 at 10:17am
351 Windsor 71c Velvet drive tranny. You can buy or make J tubes for the carb, they divert the gas back in the carb in case of sticking floats
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PAPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2010 at 11:43pm
Just some information to add; Barry Grant Marine Demon carbs have externally adjustable float and sight glass in the bowl.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2010 at 11:19pm
Pete, how about you tell me?

LOL


The 70's had some of those j tube less carbs.

This has come up several times, and there are a lot of assumptions being made. You can assume that it has to have J tubes if it is a marine carb, but you know what outcome you can get when you start assuming.

Marinization procedures have changed a bit over the years with what is required for USCG compliance, but retroactive rules are not in place, just like the lack of catalytic converters on older cars.

Obviously, safety is a huge concern, and for that reason alone it is important to raise these questions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2010 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by horkn horkn wrote:

Fwiw, early marine carbs did not have J tubes, so simply saying no J tubes equates to not a marine carb is a bit of a stretch.

Externally adjustable float bowls also don't necessarily mean it is n automotive carb due to it's age.

Now if that motor were newer, then both the lack of J tubes and the externally adjustable float would be very telling auto carb signs. But it isn't that new.

If that was a GM based motor it would be lost cause. You have one of the best ever marinized motors in that boat.


Tom,
My Escort in the Tique has J tubes! Tell me, when you state "early" marine carbs, could you be more specific with years?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2010 at 10:15pm
Fwiw, early marine carbs did not have J tubes, so simply saying no J tubes equates to not a marine carb is a bit of a stretch.

Externally adjustable float bowls also don't necessarily mean it is n automotive carb due to it's age.

Now if that motor were newer, then both the lack of J tubes and the externally adjustable float would be very telling auto carb signs. But it isn't that new.

If that was a GM based motor it would be lost cause. You have one of the best ever marinized motors in that boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2010 at 9:19pm
Patrick,
As mentioned above, get the fuel line from the pump to the carb changed out to steel when you get the marine carb on it. It's a USCG regulation.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2010 at 10:19am
that confimrs our thoughts..that carb is not for marine use...its automotive..an in case of bowl overflow/flood, it will drip fuel all over the engine/bilge causing a big fire hazard...marine carb have j vent tubes that will direct the overflowed fuel back to the carb throats..they also all base shaft are sealed to prevent any leak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pmgIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2010 at 3:17am
This is what I found, I hope it is what you are looking for?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pmgIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-05-2010 at 3:36am
Ok, I will do this tomorrow. Can you please explain to me the difference between what you suspect this is and a marine carb, from a safety perspective?

I don't know what happened to the cover, I know that my wife's family (now us) are the second owners and it was that way when we purchased it from the original owner. I'll call and ask what happened, but he sold it to us in 1987. If I get an answer I will post it.

Thanks for all the help, and YES, safe boating is a priority to me so I appreciate the help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-05-2010 at 3:15am
remove the flame arrestor (air filter) so we can see the inside of the carb..but I suspect its not a marine carb..so better start lokking for a marine replacemnt..unless you like to do unsafe boating...
Looks like the rear plastic lid took some heat..its kinda melted..wonder what happened
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pmgIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-04-2010 at 10:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-04-2010 at 10:19am
Holy overheat, Batman!

Looks like a chevy style carb fuel inlet, , pop the spark arrestor off at lest see if it has j-tube vents. The external float adjust on a 4160 suggests its not marine. Get the list number off the air horn for us to confirm.

That rubber fuel line abortion is an film-at-eleven accident waiting to happen.

Get the model number of that new mallory and see its more cahpahts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pmgIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-04-2010 at 1:52am
Sorry for the poor quality, I can do better if needed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-02-2010 at 11:08am
Originally posted by pmgIA pmgIA wrote:

The top of the engine says 250 on it, if that helps? So it IS a FORD 351 for sure? Escort is the company that converted it to a marine engine? and Escort is now part of PCM? For sure?

Yes for sure. Unless the tag was removed from another engine and put on yours, it should be exactly as I posted above. Get a picture of the entire engine and post it if you want.
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