Very hot trans on 88 2001 |
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: September-12-2011 at 12:16am |
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Yeah, I saw that today as I was going through the archives of old posts. Its one of the most frustrating things, having to learn after the fact. I never know what questions to ask or what to google until it comes up broken. Im learning alot the hard (expensive) way, but I gotta admit Im having fun fixing things as I go. Really makes it feel like MY boat. I gotta say that when its running, it really moves. Towing a wakeboarder or some of the girls on a tube is the most fun Ive ever had.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Josh,
You've got to spend more time with us here on CCfan! If you did and read more about trans problems, you would have found out it's ALWAYS recommended to replace the dampner plate when doing a trans. Sorry you had to find out the hard way. |
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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I think the trans is good, but I really dont know because I got about a mile away from the launching ramp and this happened. I can spin the center by hand. Next time I go out I think Im gonna put a kicker motor on the swim step. |
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dwcar
Platinum Member Joined: February-11-2007 Location: Houston Texas Status: Offline Points: 1103 |
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daddyo, shoot me an email. dwcar@yahoo.com
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83Ski
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Eric keeps a yearly tally of the ones that went somewhere else first.
I was trying to remember how many other marine transmission specialists have the nads to welcome feedback here. Oh, and sometimes he helps a little... I asked around here a little; wish I could remember how Doc put it...and sent mine on to Eric. Wine glass smooth and I bet he tossed in at least 1 favor that wasn't on the bill. |
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daddyo
Senior Member Joined: September-09-2008 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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There was another member just recently that took his trans to some "pros" in CA. Still didn't work and I think he ended up having to send it to eric anyway. I'd think twice about what your plan of action. You've already spent 200 on the spare trans and now are going to spend another 1k. Just send it to eric and be done with it. If not, i'm guessing this thread will end up a page or two longer...
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Eric dont you usually rate a few hundred cheaper than the others?
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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He gave me a estimate of 1000 dollars. Seemed abit high to me, but he listed all the fried stuff and it checked out. I could have saved a few bucks by going through the internet and buying it all, and putting it together myself, but I have been having bad luck fixing things lately.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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curious on final cost
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Just in case anyone is still here.
Took in my original trans to get a pro to diagnos it. Turns out the pump was way worn, and wasnt building up enough pressure to make it to the cooling circuit. Hopefully it gets rebuilt before this weekend, cause the $200 trans I got to replace it is about toast. Im planning on a good long weekend at Lake Nac, and Im taking plenty of sunblock. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Pete, the old style was a flat shaft planetary that rode on 2 bushings, the new style now uses 4 hook type cast iron seal rings, forward clutch is applied thru the bushings or now thru the seal rings and no need for bushings.
you can in a pinch bore the old style case to accomadate the new style sealing ring planetary, but the cost of the planet is the killer. I typically will do this on the 10-04 v-drives because you can fudge the cost into it because of the value of the v-drive....really not worth it on a 1:1 though. once again when searching for a 1:1 the 10-17-003 and 004 are your best options. |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Eric,
When you get a older bushed Velvet in, do you or can it even be converted to bearings? |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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what you have now is a older style trans, bushing case and most likely 1 reverse plate instead of 2, probably a mid 70's trans
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Well, for those of you interested, I pulled the trans yesterday, and didnt see anything interesting. I was thinking I would see oil everwhere on the front pump, but it was dry and very rusty. Turns out the trans I bought to replace it was clocked the same on the oil pump too. I put the "new" trans in, I have no idea what model it is, but it bolted right up. It had a couple of differences, like the dipstick had to be removed with a box end wrench. But I got it up and running and it seems to work great, in my driveway at least. Fluid flowing through the cooling lines, shifting good. Im gonna take it out on the lake maybe in a week or two, and then start ripping into the blown trans.
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Well, I bought a replacement for it yesterday, looks older, and the plate that has all the numbers on it is missing. Im gonna have to clock the pump on it since it was on a normal rotation motor. At least this will get the boat in the water (hopefully) and I can work on my busted one at my leisure. Ill post whatever I find as I am working on it.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Nina, Josh already confirmed a low to no oil flow to the trans cooler.
It sounds like you have experience with the problem. What would be his next step? |
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Agentsmith
Newbie Joined: August-06-2010 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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you need to pull a cooler line and see how much fluid is going to the cooler circuit.
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Cool. thanks Eric. If I chicken out on this, do you have an estimate that you could give me?
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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pumps dont put out pressure, restrictions do. either your pump is down on volume or you have an internal leak dumping the fluid. The last place for the oil to go is to the cooler circuit, if starved it will overheat...
unlike an engine you cannot tune a transmission to cure a problem, i believe the next thing you are thinking of is oredering a control valve? common mistake, or a rebuild kit, another mistake pull it and tear it down and i will advise you what to look for. |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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I probably should send it to him, but Ive got pride about fixing things myself. Ive rebuilt a few motors and trans on cars and motorcycles, and I feel confident I can do this, with help. Also, my Dad was a TV repairman, so Ive got a killer set of tools.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Josh,
I'd be sending that trans to Eric for a rebuild. As Eric mentioned, somethings going on with the oil flow but I'd be more worried about warped clutch plates. With them slipping, they will produce lots of heat. |
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Allright, just in case anyone is still reading this. I just ran the boat. Hooked up a hose to a bucket filled to the level of the bottom of the boat, and continually filled the bucket with another hose. The the water got sucked in no problem. Ran the boat for a minute with no temp problems. Put the boat in gear with the driveshaft disconnected. At idle, i was able to stop the output of the trans with my foot, but if I revved it, it would catch. The trans never got too hot, my laser temp gauge said 140 after a few minutes. I disconnected the cooling hose while it was running, and at first, fluid came out, but then stopped. I tried this on both the inlet and outlet hoses on the trans. Same thing. Im guessing the pump isnt putting out enough pressure? I would imagine it should flow more. Help?
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Allright. Finally got the boat back to the house yesterday. I need to get a tow vehicle of my own soon, rather than borrowing my brother's. I pulled the dipstick to the trans, and it smelled burnt, very burnt. I'm gonna change the fluid, and then test the pressure. My question is, what pressure tester to use? The ones I have dont go up past 80 psi, and I know this trans can run pressures up to 150-200psi. Does anyone have a favorite brand or is there a specific one to use?
Also I found a Velvet Drive on craigslist somewhat near me, he calls it a 71 - 8B. He said it was behind a big block Chevy, and that they are all pretty much universal. True or not? Again, sorry for the Newbie posts. But I do appreciate the replies so far. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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From what I've seen around this board, once a transmission gets in trouble, it needs going through. Eric's gear spa and done. And no, he won't pay me a commission.
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Take into consideration that it is designed to run under a load so I would keep it to an idle test.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Ahh. Thats what I was afraid of. I guess I can disconnect the drive shaft, or something. I wish I lived on a lake, or had a big pool, so I could test it in the water. Unfortunatly Im gonna have to test it in the driveway.
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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You don't want to do that because the cutlass bearing will not be lubricated and will burn up. Not to mention the noise it would make!
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Another question before I start working on my baby. Can I run the boat in gear while it is out of the water? Ive read up on how to hook the cooling system up to a big bucket of water, to test the vacuum of the water pump. But I thought Ive heard something about not wanting to spin the shaft while it is dry.
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omegajosh
Newbie Joined: October-25-2010 Location: Santa Barbara Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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I would have to say that there was some slippage, considering the RPM and speed of the boat. I felt the water cooling line become cooler after I started the boat, so I assume that works. Im trying to figure out a pressure gauge setup to test that. Unfortunatly I dont have the boat at my house right now, its still at my friends house up at Lake Nacimento. Im gonna try to get it back this week and I will post here as I figure out anything.
Thanks for the replies, I wanna keep this boat up and running. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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did you feel slippage? but Pete is correct, you need to pull a cooler line and see how much fluid is going to the cooler circuit, Ive seen (2) over the years that i could not figure out why they were heating up, but i did pull the cooler line and notice oil was way down on flow. it seemed on the 2 oil was dumping into the case....if you can, please list anything else you can think of such as a crimped line or seaweed in the strainer, anything different than normal
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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