Scored Shaft |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Posted: February-15-2011 at 12:12am |
Man, this stuff keeps getting more complicated. I thought I had a good handle on the whole alignment thing and then I read all of this...
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critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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Mike, make sure that you turn the shaft as you check it.
It took 2 hands to turn my prop. I tried the allignment checking and ended up adding a single washer at the back of the strut. I could turn it freely after the washer but then I started feeling a vibration. I replaced the shaft with a new dual taper, removed the washers, did the alignment and now no more vibration and the prop turns freely. My shaft was bent ever so slightly. |
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1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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Would a washer be good or a piece of stainless or aluminum plate? I a lot to do on the boat but trying to get this figured out before moving on to the next thing, by the way the cutlass bearing was only slightly terrible to get out This is a picture of the rear with the original shaft inserted into the pipe in the log acting as a alignment tube . kinda of interesting nothing looks straight at all in the picture.
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Lakedog55
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mike,
You're correct that the picture really isn't very good!! All I can say at this point is the pipe should be roughly centered in the log and then down the center of the strut bore concentric to the bore the complete length. If it's not, then ether the strut is bent or out of alignment. Yes, if it's not off much then stainless flat washers can be used as shims. Don't go beyond one washer thickness. |
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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picts are not that good but you can see the pipe on the right and the strut on the left. The other pic is of the old shaf inside a pipe and shows how high it is riding
Does the strut need to be moved back or lowered it is in the factory holes. |
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Lakedog55
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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Hi,
Man finally got the motor out and shaft, inserted a pipe into the log 1 3/16 it is the wrong size to fit in the strut but it seems to riding about a 1/4" high took the old shaft and slid pipe back inserted old into pipe and the shafted is centered but riding against the top of strut, I think it needs some washers or an aluminium plate or to backed up the strut says s-19 on side is that right for a 86sn Thanks mike Will post pics later |
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Lakedog55
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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'Correct Parts' is a site sponsor that can get you a shaft. I'd recommend a double taper A.R.E. style - must easier to maintain in the long run.
I was able to straighten a bowed shaft, but it wasn't bent much (about .010). We just supported it in v-blocks, found the high spot, then bounced our weight on it in opposite direction. Got it straight within .002 - good enough! |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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Thanks, What kinda of shop would be best suited for straightening the rudder and shaft if one where to go that way? Are drive line shops capable ov making the drive shaft or would you guys buy one? They have to be made somewhere
Mike |
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Lakedog55
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Struts can be straightened, but if yours cant be saved, then N3Boatworks has them for a reasonable price. I believe there is a PN discount as well.
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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Thanks,
Once again you guys take it to another level. I am hoping to pull motor this weekend. Then I will get the old shaft out and try the allignment with the tubing. If it is what I expect it to be Who has a strut for sale? Thanks Mike |
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Lakedog55
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Chris, thats a fancy trick! Ive never been able to get a bushing out that cleanly... its usually a mangled mess.
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Tim - I had used your method (kitchen counter = surface plate) to measure a strut. The only thing I would like to add is to have the bushing stick out past the base - that way I was able to get the centerline of the bore at both ends.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Pete, the reason for drawing the lines parallel to the mounting holes is for the exact reason you mention- Ive seen several bases that werent even close to symmetrical so measuring off them directly would have been a waste of time! The body of the strut *should* be pretty close though- any variances in the casting should be fairly small, and plenty obvious to the eye to compensate for. Measuring at several points along the body (not just the ends) and comparing the measurements on both sides should give you a pretty good idea if the strut is bent and in what manner (side to side, twisted, etc).
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mike,
Tim's correct that I probably went too far in saying all the fancy measuring stuff is needed. I guess since I have access to all of it, I just automatically go to the extreme! One thing I would like to comment on regarding Tim's method is to use the square and measure to the machined surface of the cutlass bearing bore. Strut castings are on the rough side so I wouldn't trust the unmachined surface. I've also seen the base holes off too!! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Pete's right- the important thing is that the strut lines up with the shaft log. If it doesnt, then you'll need to take it off the boat anyways, as its either mounted improperly or bent. I dont think you need highly accurate measuring tools though- a flat surface, a square, a tapemeasure and a paper and pencil should be enough to give you a decent amount of confidence.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mike,
Unless the strut is removed, set up on a surface plate and then going after it with some decent measuring tools, you will never find out just how straight it is. However, don't worry too much about it since the key is how well the shaft aligns up with the center of the hull hole/log. Take another look at my post above about strut alignment by using the shaft to the center of the hull hole/log. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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What Ive done to measure straightness is to put the strut on a piece of computer paper on a perfectly flat surface (granite countertop, etc). I havent found that all strut bases to be perfectly square or symmetrical, so I mark the bolt holes on the paper. Then I draw a straight line through the centers, and mark a set of straight lines parrallel to those, which are visible when I put the strut back on the piece of paper. I then take a large square and bring it up to the lines on each side and measure to the body of the strut several times along its length. It should be clear if your strut is bent using this method... spotting a slight bend (<1/2") by eye alone is very, very difficult.
I dont have any pictures of this process but Ill try and put a diagram together for you. Ive successfully used this method to verify straightness of tracking fins as well. |
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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Hi Guys Took a little break from the project, It was consuming my every thought. My question is How would won check the strut for a minor bend? It looks straight but there is nothing I have found to get a true square on it.
Thanks Mike |
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Lakedog55
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mike,
Rudders can be straightened however, your's doesn't look that bad from the view you did post. |
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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To add to the misery it appears the rudder is bent as well, maybe the log as well it looks to be sitting at an angle but the boat is not level let. Has anybody tried to have one of these straightened. I will post pics
Any suggestions Thanks Mike |
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Lakedog55
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mike,
The cutlass is easiest to remove by sawing it in half lengthwise through the bore. You can do it with a hack saw by removing the blade from the frame and then back on the frame after you get it into the ID. A sawsall is easier!! Then it will be free. If you can find a length of 1&1/4" OD tubing that fits the ID of the strut, it's the best way to check the strut alignment. Pushed forward into the hull hole and the log, it should be centered. If you can't find any tubing, then get the new cutlass in the strut and use the actual prop shaft. If you go with a rubber cutlass, this way is by "feel" since the rubber has some give to it. The shaft should turn the easyest when it's centered in th log. If not, then the strut is ether bent or needs alignment. I have had to drill new holes and tap them for the set screws. Get the cutlass out and some penetrating oil on them and try again. |
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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The bearing looks to be original a 1986 with 620 hrs it will be replaced, The strut has two set screws with an allen head that look like they have become part of the strut any tips on removing them? What is the procedure for checking strut alignment? It looks straight but my eye is not as good as some. I was thinking I could use my laser to check or the ribs on the hull, I seem to be having trouble with deciding where square is. Is it possible that it is just poor maintenance and running the bent prop that caused the scoring?
Thanks Mike |
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Lakedog55
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Mike the prop took a major hit which threw the alignment out causing the cutlass bearing to score the shaft. You might want to double check the strut and make sure it is not bent. I would imagine that your cutlass bearing shows signs of wear and needs to be replaced as well.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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See, good pictures mean alot!! Of course rereading you first post, I do now see you did say strut!! Mike, replace the shaft. Unlike the stuffing box which will take up for wear, the cutlass bearing will not. |
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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The scoring is loacated at the strut, the different color appears to be more or less different sheen , at the packing area all is still smooth.
Thanks Mike |
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Lakedog55
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mike,
I have seen worse and repacked worse without a problem. One thing you would need to worry about is scoring along with a heat tint. The heat tint would indicate the shaft got real hot changing it's physical properties. Did you try to clean up the shaft and remove any discoloration? The ARE double taper is the way to go if you decide on getting a new one. Yes, we know about scrolling from side to side on oversise pictures. |
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lakedog55
Gold Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Lake Weir Fl Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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correcto,
I will work on the resizing thing trying to get a picture of shaft now. If you use the tabs on the right and bottom you can move the pic around. No luck on the resizing |
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Lakedog55
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Looks like a bent prop:
I think we'd need to see some pictures of the scored shaft in order to help you out. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I can't make it out ether!! Mike, How about a couple more pictures? Sizing to fit will help as well. |
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Fl Inboards
Grand Poobah Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2119 |
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HMM!!! Not really sure what we are looking at here!
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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