Ford 351 with PCM manifold heating up while idling |
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Posted: April-18-2011 at 4:01pm |
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UPDATE!
Shaft alignment: Ok fellas, I got the shaft aligned to .001 tolerence. I used a half moon piece of shaft packing to align the shaft in shaft log - worked great. Gauges: Still having troubles with my gauges, temp sending unit, oil pressure and gas tank. I will get back to you on these. I have not been able to get a meter on the situation yet - next on the list after timing. TIMING: OK, I bought a aftermarket timing cover. I am now missing a timing pointer :( . I need help to determine what pointer i need (10 or 11 oclock) and maybe where to get one. Or maybe make my own and set the piston to TDC and use some timing tape on dampener to get a base reading - any suggestions. I am going to post some pics of my timing cover to see where it should mount. There is a little hole but not threaded - maybe a sheet metal screw ??? to hold . I would love to see a picture of what it should look like - anyone got one. My motor is a 351W reverse rotation. https://www.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8a6b698e596773b46f99 LINKAGE for BW 1:1: First the tranny and gears all work fine. How do I begin to set the linkage correctly- should i set it a particular gear first then adjust???. I can either get it to go in forward and neutral, but not reverse or the opposite. Can't seem to get it to go in all 3 gears from the shifter (original shifter 1977) Seems Look forward to everyones help. Mark |
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82Fineline
Newbie Joined: March-25-2011 Location: Va Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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^What temps would you be expecting to see with the IR gun? Mine reads 150* on the gauge once warmed up, but if I use the gun on the intake and block it will read anywhere from 175 - 205. Im assuming this is normal as the sending unit is reading the water temp which is cooler than the actual engine?
Thanks! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Have you checked the actual temperature as recommended? IR temp gun? Also, some of the better digital volt ohm meters have a plug in thermocouple. You tape it close to the gauge sender. Bench test the gauge as mentioned? Check you voltage you get to the gauges. With the oil pressure gauge, check the ohms at sender same as recommended for the temp sender. Sender wire diconnected and with engine off and running at several different RPM's. |
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Update on temp sending unit:
Called Teleflex, tech told me I need the sending unit TS26631. I was able to get one through west marine. Teleflex told me that the TS26631 has OHM range 240 cold / 33 hot. Bought one for $14. Put it in and getting same results. Up to 240. I am having trouble with my oil temp gauge (not moving under normal operation, but when grounded to block pegs to right) Any other tests I can do? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Rig up some cheap hose/duct like dryer venting to each exhaust and collect the water in seperate buckets. Run it and see how much difference you get in each. Have you contacted the company who made the FWC system to make sure it's plumbed correctly?
Have you ID'd the Ohm range the gauge needs? To check the sender, remove the wire, get a Ohm reading to the block and check that to the known temp. Do it at several temps. The Ohm to temp range is pretty linear. To check the gauge, you can remove it from the boat and hook it up on the bench with known values of resistors instead of the sender. |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Some vapor is normal if the engine sat for a long period.
Also the new paint will smoke a smell over a few thermal cycles. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Looks like a gauge problem.
edit: not in that I think the actual gauge is broken but rather the engine is running at normal temp and the reading is off. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I think you are getting the wrong senders.On a cold engine when you first go to start your already getting a temp reading?Might have to pull the gauge and see if it has any model numbers on the side or back of it and go from there. It's a Teleflex I assume? That number I posted is for VDO but those guy's were sharp maybe they could help.
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Gary,
Never saw the boat run. It was partially sunk when i bought it. Yes, new senders, 1 from ski dim , 1 from quivra marine. Pics have code of sender. Looks to be correct one. Not sure if gauge is acurrate after 35 years ??? I did take wire off and turn key and zero was the outcome. touched it to ground and pegged it to hot. Changed sending unit and same thing. Hose goes from check valve to carb. thank you for asking the question. keep them coming. Mark |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Looks like you have a gauge problem.Did you run the boat before you rebuilt it? Or did this happen after the rebuild? Did you ever change senders? Have you disconnected the sender and then turned on the key? Did the gauge stay at zero? Where does the hose that comes from the pcv valve on the right valve cover go to? Sorry for all the questions
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Let it run for about 6-7 minutes.
Smoke is coming from breather cap. I know I am suppose to have some kind of return hose from flame arrester to breather cap??? but my flame arrester does not have nipple for hose. These are automotive valve covers and breather. Could it also be the heating up of the gasket silcone used to but on V covers? It has been 3 years since I put them on and started motor? Took temps reading after 7 min. Both heads 122 degrees Both valve covers 84. both risers 70 Driver side manilfold 195-200 at base of triangle. Other manifold 135. |
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Opps broken link.
FOR PICS... https://www.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8a6b658c596672b2a1a9 |
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Lets try this again:
GO HERE TO SEE VIDEO......... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOEvmmjiwp0 Go HERE TO SEE PICTURES: https://www.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8a6b658c596670b9a766# |
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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the video is 3-4 min long. will take a few min to load.
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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OK fellas,
I got pics and videos for you. I look forward to hearing back you. Please take a minute to watch. Would appreciate some feedback when can. Thank you. https://www.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8a6b658c596670b9a766 (copy and past in browser) I think the light smoke at end of video is from wrong breather or just oils and such from years of rebuilding - not sure. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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HF is having a huge sidewalk sale today. Might have to go check it out. Curious to see how the temp gun works. Let us know what you find.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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got one at harbor freight CEN - Tech.
Thanks for the suggestion though. Will get to some testing today. Thank you. |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Im not sure if they are there on the weekends,but here is the VDO tech support line 1-800-265-1818
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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No. If "comprimised", you ether wouldn't get any reading on the gauge (you do) or if the wire/connections/terminals corroded causing high resistance, then the gauge would read low. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Its gonna be 65 here all weekend but I have too many things apart to go out for a test run. This sounds about right. I bet the original hose is cracked somewhere. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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ok,
Then maybe the original hot wire is compromised somewhere between gauge and unit ?? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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The engine block is the ground to the gauge. You should get zero ohms between the sender body and the block. The "hot" side to the circuit goes to the gauge itself. The ground on the gauge is only for the lighting. Sender resistance varies along with the temp it picks up and basically varies the voltage to the gauge. The temp gauge is really a volt meter. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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Is it safe to presume that you returned the boat to idle after running at WOT? This is probably the most stringent test for the cooling system (very hard operation followed by minimal cooling ability at low RPM) so any weaknesses will reveal themselves. If getting back up on plane brought the temp back down, then you would likely have a minor air leak somewhere. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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If youre seeing 200 degrees cold, then clearly you still have a mismatched gauge/sender. Where did you get the replacement? If you can hold your hand on the riser comfortably when the engine is supposedly "hot" then clearly you are not really overheating. |
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Ok, cleaned the threads on both unit and intake.
Restarted with cap on and off of FWC and still Same Problem could my gauge not be grounded good. Will be at all day tomorrow. got to get some work done today. Need some suggestions. |
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Wakeslayer thank you
I do have some pipe tread compound with teflon on unit threads ....I never knew that. I will clean and try and get back to you guys. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Will teflon kill your oil pressure sender too. Have not been able to get that to work and know it is teflon taped too.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I think the easiest way is with a laser temp gun as Mike suggested. Harbor Freight has one on sale right now.
Good to know about the teflon tape. My sender is wrapped in teflon for sure. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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ZenZeus
Newbie Joined: March-10-2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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just opened cap to FWC and started motor.
for a brief second the temp did start out about 160, but climbed to over 240 within 2 minutes. Going to check ground on gauge. I know I need to check the temp gauge reading against actual temp of motor. any suggestions how to do that ? And where should i test ? (take sending unit out after heat up and test water under intake ???) fellas ? |
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